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(Vanity) Anyone watching Napolitano on O'Reilly? Gotta say I agree with him

Posted on 11/30/2010 5:26:24 PM PST by Red in Blue PA

It's not a crime to think a certain way. It may not be popular to say it (heck I know it isn't), but thought is not a crime, if the govt plants the seed as was done in Portland. Hate to agree with him on this one, but how many people have ever had an untoward thought toward DC? Thought is not a crime....hate crimes are Unconstitutional, and I believe the Judge is correct that this is too.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: chat; islam; napolitano; nolink; notnews; oreilly; vanity
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1 posted on 11/30/2010 5:26:26 PM PST by Red in Blue PA
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To: Red in Blue PA

islamism should always be considered a crime against the US


2 posted on 11/30/2010 5:27:58 PM PST by ari-freedom (Islam is at war against America, while America is at the mall.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

If what Napolitano says is true, then this is very similar to Ruby Ridge.


3 posted on 11/30/2010 5:29:01 PM PST by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Red in Blue PA

If they find the guy was coerced by the govt, I agree with Napolitano. However, if they did not, and he thought he was blowing up people, but it just didn’t work, then I think he is guilty


4 posted on 11/30/2010 5:29:06 PM PST by Wisconsinlady (DEFUND NPR, PBS, THE TSA AND THE U.N.)
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To: Red in Blue PA
Napolitano is in error. Every now and then he starts creating semantic differentials like a Mafia consigliere ~ it's still wrong.

Did he grow up in that environment or what?

5 posted on 11/30/2010 5:30:05 PM PST by muawiyah (GIT OUT THE WAY ~ REPUBLICANS COMIN' THROUGH)
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To: Wisconsinlady

How many people would push a button if they were told it would blow up DC? A lot of those on both the left and the right....but they are not actively looking to blow it up.


6 posted on 11/30/2010 5:30:27 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Planning on using 911? Google "Brittany Zimmerman")
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To: Red in Blue PA

bill’s a bit bitchy tonight.


7 posted on 11/30/2010 5:32:20 PM PST by ken21 (who runs the gop?)
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To: Red in Blue PA

bill’s a bit bitchy tonight.


8 posted on 11/30/2010 5:32:41 PM PST by ken21 (who runs the gop?)
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To: ken21

Tonight?

That’s his schtick.


9 posted on 11/30/2010 5:33:14 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Planning on using 911? Google "Brittany Zimmerman")
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To: muawiyah

What did he say that was in error?


10 posted on 11/30/2010 5:34:35 PM PST by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Red in Blue PA

I agree with him too! We need to stop interfering with terrorists trying to kill Americans. We need to be fair and allow them to kill as many Americans as they can before we try to bring them to trial.


11 posted on 11/30/2010 5:35:55 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (Sittin' in da back of da bus since January 2009.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Hate crime laws, like abortion and other things, were placed into law before the public knew what happened.

The ruling class has been sneaking around to do wrong for a long time.

I have always followed politics and the news; however, I was an adult before I realized that federal regulations out of the executive branch were ruling our lives without one vote from our representatives.


12 posted on 11/30/2010 5:37:00 PM PST by donna (Synonyms: Feminism, Marxism, Communism, Socialism, Fascism, Islamism)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

If it wasn’t for the FBI, there would be no case!


13 posted on 11/30/2010 5:39:28 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Planning on using 911? Google "Brittany Zimmerman")
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To: Red in Blue PA

How do you have a case on attempting to blow something up? Seems to me that a “bomb” that can’t be blown up is enough to find a defendant guilty.

Sometimes the law has to be changed to keep up with the times.


14 posted on 11/30/2010 5:39:39 PM PST by Ex-Democrat Dean
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To: Raider Sam

What did he say? He sympathized with this nutcase. The kid needs locked up on any number of charges.


15 posted on 11/30/2010 5:39:39 PM PST by muawiyah (GIT OUT THE WAY ~ REPUBLICANS COMIN' THROUGH)
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To: Red in Blue PA

For those of us not close to a TV, give us the short points, please. What’s he right about?


16 posted on 11/30/2010 5:40:23 PM PST by OldDeckHand
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To: Red in Blue PA
The thought was not the crime in Portland, the action was. Further, the action was not a minor step over an arbitrary line. It was intent to commit murder.

Entrapment is going after someone that would not otherwise commit the crime. Offering someone $1000 to leave a bag of crap on a doorstep is entrapment. Acting on a tip that someone is seeking a hit man by pretending to be a real hit man isn't entrapment. One creates a crime, the other allows it to proceed. Hiring a hit man is not a thought crime, it is an actual action.

Our little muzzie friend in Portland fits into the latter category.

17 posted on 11/30/2010 5:41:59 PM PST by SampleMan (If all of the people currently oppressed shared a common geography, bullets would already be flying.)
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To: Red in Blue PA
Thought is not a crime....hate crimes are Unconstitutional


George Orwell In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

18 posted on 11/30/2010 5:42:13 PM PST by rawcatslyentist (Jeremiah 50:31 Behold, I am against you, O you most proud, said the Lord God of hosts.)
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To: Ex-Democrat Dean

Depends on how you look at it.

If a person buys an empty gun, and attempts to rob a bank, has he committed a crime?

I’m asking, because I don’t know the (legal) answer, but I suspect if you can prove intent, then you have proven enough.


19 posted on 11/30/2010 5:42:32 PM PST by RangerM (A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel. - Robert Frost.)
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To: OldDeckHand

The FBI planted the seed in the kids head.....without the FBI, there would have been no case.


20 posted on 11/30/2010 5:42:42 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Planning on using 911? Google "Brittany Zimmerman")
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To: ken21

>> bill’s a bit bitchy tonight.

And when *isn’t” BOR bitchy?

OH WAIT! I know the answer to my OWN QUESTION!

BOR wasn’t bitchy when he was on “The View”! ‘cause those bitches completely monopolize all the bitchy that exists in a five-state area, leaving none at all for Bill!


21 posted on 11/30/2010 5:43:51 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: RangerM
If a person buys an empty gun, and attempts to rob a bank, has he committed a crime?

Yes, it's a crime. He initiated every step.

This kid never bought a metaphorical gun.....the FBI handed him one.
22 posted on 11/30/2010 5:44:09 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Planning on using 911? Google "Brittany Zimmerman")
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To: Red in Blue PA

If it wasn’t for the FBI, there would be no case!
*****************************************

The defendant want to blow something up. He was looking for help. The mere fact that the FBI was the first in line, doesn’t make him a saint.


23 posted on 11/30/2010 5:44:50 PM PST by Ex-Democrat Dean
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To: Red in Blue PA
"The FBI planted the seed in the kids head.....without the FBI, there would have been no case."

Oh. Thanks.

Wasn't the kid reaching out to Muslim extremists? And, didn't the FBI intercept some of his communications, then pose as one of these extremists (at least that's what I read). It seems to me that the idea was already in his head.

24 posted on 11/30/2010 5:45:29 PM PST by OldDeckHand
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To: Red in Blue PA

Take it step further....

If a person willingly receives the empty gun (and doesn’t buy it), that’s what makes it different?

I came into the segment halfway through, but I don’t recall hearing that the FBI coerced the (hopeful) terrorist.


25 posted on 11/30/2010 5:47:02 PM PST by RangerM (A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel. - Robert Frost.)
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To: Ex-Democrat Dean

How many people in the US would push a button if they were told it would blow up DC? A lot of liberals in the mid 2000’s and probably a lot on the right now. The difference is that none of these people are actually carrying out their plans without the FBI.

Thought is not a crime.


26 posted on 11/30/2010 5:47:47 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Planning on using 911? Google "Brittany Zimmerman")
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To: Red in Blue PA

HaHaHaHa. You forgot the “sarcasm” tag.


27 posted on 11/30/2010 5:48:19 PM PST by halfers
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To: RangerM

So the govt can hand a gun to every American and see if they point it and pull the trigger? And then arrest them if they do so?

I will say it again......Thought is not a crime.


28 posted on 11/30/2010 5:50:46 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Planning on using 911? Google "Brittany Zimmerman")
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To: Red in Blue PA

I agree.

He had the ability to agree or not in steps along the way.

When he had the phone, he was told to push the button to kill, injure or maim hundreds, maybe thousands of people. When it did not go off, he was asked by the agents to step from the cab of the truck and try again to get a better signal.

He pressed the button a SECOND time. What more d we need?


29 posted on 11/30/2010 5:51:15 PM PST by BunnySlippers (I love BULL MARKETS . . .)
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To: Red in Blue PA

We would be better off if we just stopped accepting muslims into the country.


30 posted on 11/30/2010 5:54:15 PM PST by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: Red in Blue PA

if you pull the trigger then that is an action, not a thought


31 posted on 11/30/2010 5:55:38 PM PST by ari-freedom (Islam is at war against America, while America is at the mall.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

I would guess you would also be one of the first ones to start screaming “why didn’t the FBI or cops do something about this guy when they found out he was trying to contact terrorists”....after he was successful with his terrorist plan.

Authorities need to follow through, even setting the individual up, to make the thousands of others just like him already in this country more reluctant to trust anyone telling them they can help them murder Americans. One of the best defenses to terrorism is convincing the would be terrorist he can’t trust anyone and that makes his terrorist attack plan all the harder to implement.


32 posted on 11/30/2010 5:57:13 PM PST by macquire
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To: FlingWingFlyer
I agree with him too! We need to stop interfering with terrorists trying to kill Americans. We need to be fair and allow them to kill as many Americans as they can before we try to bring them to trial.

OK, I understand the sarcasm, but the big question is: Should the FBI agents have taught this little sh** how to build a bomb when he was ignorant of how to do it?

33 posted on 11/30/2010 5:57:39 PM PST by theDentist (fybo; qwerty ergo typo : i type, therefore i misspelll)
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To: ari-freedom

If the kid got the gun, I would agree 100%.

This would set a dangerous precedent IMO.

The kid is obviously dangerous as his dad turned him in. The question becomes what to charge him with.


34 posted on 11/30/2010 5:58:37 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Planning on using 911? Google "Brittany Zimmerman")
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To: Red in Blue PA

“If it wasn’t for the FBI, there would be no case!”

Or survivors!


35 posted on 11/30/2010 5:58:37 PM PST by EDINVA
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To: Red in Blue PA

“Thought is not a crime.”
*****************************

Thank God, huh!

But this was not a mere thought. The defendant did everything to get the bomb to blow up, killing how many people, he “pushed the button”. The only reason the people weren’t killed was that the bomb didn’t explode. Doesn’t matter why.


36 posted on 11/30/2010 5:59:46 PM PST by Ex-Democrat Dean
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To: Red in Blue PA

So with your ridiculous position; anyone using a firearm in a crime should just make sure it is empty; then they can claim they were just thinking of using it...

Sheese.

Go back to DU.


37 posted on 11/30/2010 5:59:46 PM PST by macquire
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To: Red in Blue PA
“The FBI planted the seed in the kids head.....without the FBI, there would have been no case.”

With all due respect, the seed was planted by the Godless heathen religion of Islam. The FBI merely set the tools in place for the kid to hang himself with. If mooslim terrorists had supplied real explosives, people would have died. The “entrapment plea” is as old as the hills. It is the last refuge of scoundrel lawyers trying to acquit their guilty client in the court of public opinion and cannot be allowed to stand, or we as a nation are done.

38 posted on 11/30/2010 6:00:40 PM PST by bitterohiogunclinger (Proudly casting a heavy carbon footprint as I clean my guns ---)
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To: macquire
Authorities need to follow through, even setting the individual up

I agree with this if it means allowing the perp to build the bomb.
39 posted on 11/30/2010 6:01:24 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Planning on using 911? Google "Brittany Zimmerman")
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To: Red in Blue PA

People don’t get prosecuted or convicted for what they merely think. If they commit no acts, they commit no crtime.


40 posted on 11/30/2010 6:02:02 PM PST by Walts Ice Pick
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To: ari-freedom; All

Well banning Islam as a religion in America is not going to happen..


41 posted on 11/30/2010 6:03:26 PM PST by KevinDavis (I have no problem with a black president. But the one we have now is yellow to the core)
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To: macquire

I am for summary execution after a speedy trial in a mobile trailer if perps are found guilty of murder such as those 2 in CT.....and you say I belong at DU?

LOL.


42 posted on 11/30/2010 6:03:48 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Planning on using 911? Google "Brittany Zimmerman")
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To: theDentist

Sometimes it seems like we’re importing these problematic people with the intent that they be a slow burning Reichstag fire.

We keep importing them and we the people lose again and again and again.


43 posted on 11/30/2010 6:05:25 PM PST by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: muawiyah

Did he misrepresent the law? Did he use semantics to change what the law meant?

He didnt sympathize with the kid, he said you cant punish someone for thought crimes.


44 posted on 11/30/2010 6:05:46 PM PST by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: SampleMan

It would not be entrapment in the kid came to the FBI wanting to blow something up. It would be entrapment if the FBI went to the kid.

If someone was seeking a hit man, then they had the intention of committing a crime. But if you went to someone and offered it without solicitation, it would be entrapment.


45 posted on 11/30/2010 6:10:26 PM PST by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Red in Blue PA

But in this case, did the person actually attempt to commit the crime?

I can’t say “I’m going to kill you”. That is assault, and all I’ve done is utter words; or vocalized my thoughts.

If I actually attempt to kill you, using a gun that I don’t know is unloaded, then you are saying I have committed no crime?

I’m not in total disagreement with you, if what you indicate (entrapment) is true, however I’m not aware if entrapment is applicable here.


46 posted on 11/30/2010 6:12:43 PM PST by RangerM (A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel. - Robert Frost.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Sounds to me like he had the intent (He was trying to contact terrorists) but I do agree that our government shouldn’t be facilitating that intent.

I wonder what the cost of simple surveillance would have been compared to an undercover sting operation. Seems pretty expensive for a headline.


47 posted on 11/30/2010 6:14:51 PM PST by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: Red in Blue PA; theDentist

This little Sh** (as you call him):

Was recruited by an al Qaeda operative here in the US - http://tinyurl.com/2b7qrmk

Communicated with an al Qaeda operative in Yemen and wrote 3 articles for their Jihadi webzine - http://tinyurl.com/2b3m265

And had his own father report him to the FBI BEFORE the investigation started - http://tinyurl.com/2g92n6p

This makes entrapment a hard sell - in my opinion, of course.


48 posted on 11/30/2010 6:30:15 PM PST by Dinah Lord
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To: Raider Sam
Sue you can ~ when there are real crimes taking place while he's thinking about a different crime (that may or may not be real).

For example, you're a naturalized citizen and you get engaged in the thought crime of TREASON ~ you can lose your citizenship and get deported.

This guy wasn't born here.

49 posted on 11/30/2010 6:32:46 PM PST by muawiyah (GIT OUT THE WAY ~ REPUBLICANS COMIN' THROUGH)
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To: Dinah Lord

You think it’s easy for me to defend him? I would love to execute all jihadists....but we have a Constitution to live by.


50 posted on 11/30/2010 6:33:37 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Planning on using 911? Google "Brittany Zimmerman")
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