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China sells its drones using videos of them destroying US aircraft carriers
Libradex ^ | Libradex.com

Posted on 12/02/2010 2:49:26 AM PST by ssugasl231

Check out the latest from the Air Show China. This year, China is showcasing numerous models of unmanned aerial vehicles (drones); most of which are for sale.

Look closely at the WJ600 model:

"The Chinese drone of greatest potential concern to the U.S. is the one with several missiles and a jet engine—called the WJ600—which was displayed by China Aerospace Science & Industry Corp., or Casic, one of China's top weapons makers.

Casic officials declined to comment, but a video and a two-dimensional display by the company showed Chinese forces using the WJ600 to help attack what appeared to be a U.S. aircraft carrier...

(Excerpt) Read more at libradex.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: chinatheenemy; enemies
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1 posted on 12/02/2010 2:49:31 AM PST by ssugasl231
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To: ssugasl231

Where did they get one to destroy?


2 posted on 12/02/2010 3:01:23 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: ssugasl231; Jeff Head

But...but...we have to engage with them, so they won’t remain a backward, closed-off society! /s


3 posted on 12/02/2010 3:06:27 AM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Muslims are not the problem, the rest of the world is! /s)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

It was a CGI video.


4 posted on 12/02/2010 3:09:52 AM PST by ssugasl231
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To: ssugasl231

Old SSBNs with armed & unarmed UAVs aboard and launched with RATO would obviate the need for sending carriers hither and yon except during emergencies. Why are we still fighting World War II at this late date?


5 posted on 12/02/2010 3:10:58 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Re: Gov. Sarah Palin: Even the lion has to defend himself against flies. ~German Proverb)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

All we are doing is paying for their massive military buildup. Time to rethink China.


6 posted on 12/02/2010 3:11:02 AM PST by ssugasl231
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To: ssugasl231
Eats drones for a light snack.


7 posted on 12/02/2010 3:30:28 AM PST by TSgt (Colonel Allen West & Michele Bachman - 2012 POTUS Dream Team Ticket!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

HMS Invincible is for sale ,, expected to bring only about $2M (no engines) ,, refitted in 2004 ,, it would be a devestating launch platform for UAV’s http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2633962/posts


8 posted on 12/02/2010 3:35:52 AM PST by Neidermeyer
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To: ssugasl231

History is repeating itself.

The Japanese before WWII were setting up for war, Roosevelt and his leftists were trying to get us into a war footing but the predecessors of the present DEMO party (radical leftists) were trying to keep us out of any wars.

Today the DEMO party is lock stock and barrel trying to defeat America before the first shot is fired.

It will soon be time to hang the traitors, after the trials of course.


9 posted on 12/02/2010 3:42:47 AM PST by politicianslie (A taxpayer voting for Obama is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders)
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To: TSgt; ssugasl231; Tolerance Sucks Rocks; HiTech RedNeck
WJ600. Here it is
10 posted on 12/02/2010 3:44:38 AM PST by Pontiac
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To: Pontiac

I am no military expert, but I have thought that carriers make big targets.

Are they as Passe’ as the WW2 Battleship. I suppose it will take a war to find out. Hopefully we never have to.


11 posted on 12/02/2010 3:53:59 AM PST by Venturer
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To: Pontiac

Looks like something they sell at “fun” parties for women...


12 posted on 12/02/2010 4:02:03 AM PST by TSgt (Colonel Allen West & Michele Bachman - 2012 POTUS Dream Team Ticket!)
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To: Venturer

Not passe’, but certainly a useful trick to have in the bag. CVNs serve a very useful purpose, but like everything else, they have limitations. If all we had were a fleet of missile-equipped subs, the Navy couldn’t do its job either. Different tools for different jobs. My hammer cannot replace my pliers.

The bigger issue is that China has ceased all pretense of being the older wiser big brother to all her smaller neighbors. By claiming jurisdiction over every square mile of seas that touch their shores, they are simply the older wiser thug next door. This WH will not challenge that claim unless the “O” sees an opportunity to decimate the American military by doing so.


13 posted on 12/02/2010 4:22:58 AM PST by Pecos (Liberty and Honor will not die on my watch.)
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To: Venturer
I am no military expert, but I have thought that carriers make big targets.

Are they as Passe’ as the WW2 Battleship.

Yes they are big but they do not travel alone.

The carrier is the heart of the Carrier Battle Group. Around the carrier is a cloud of smaller ships the form the picket or shield ships that detect and destroy threats before they can get the chance to launch their weapons at the carrier.

The plan is that the drone would be detected and shot down before it could get with in missile range of the carrier.

The plan falls apart when a carrier group enters places where the picket ships do not have enough space to spread out such as the Persian Gulf.

14 posted on 12/02/2010 4:53:27 AM PST by Pontiac
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To: TSgt
The movie "The Sum of All Fears" showed very clearly how an attack could be mounted on a carrier, using the time-honored communist-bloc tactic "volume of fire".

In my Navy says, this was known, and not with a smile. The phalanx is good, but enough incoming means the carrier's systems would not get them all, and a couple hits are all you need.

15 posted on 12/02/2010 5:09:43 AM PST by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: Joe Brower

Also- and this is the biggest issue.

STEALTH- I believe China, Russia even Iran
will have mastered some of the Stealth technology.
mounted as a swarm we may not be able to detect,
track,and engage fast enough-


16 posted on 12/02/2010 5:16:47 AM PST by mj1234
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To: mj1234

One American carrier for Shanghai ?


17 posted on 12/02/2010 5:23:11 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (Impeachment !)
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To: mj1234; Jeff Head; Travis McGee; Squantos; archy
"I believe China, Russia even Iran will have mastered some of the Stealth technology."

I'm sure they have. They aren't sitting still. China or Russia will figure it out, and then off it goes to Iran and elsewhere.

I've pinged a few other fellows I know who are RKIs on the subject. Gents, perhaps of interest.

18 posted on 12/02/2010 5:30:37 AM PST by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: Quix; aragorn; null and void; houeto
Stripe/gray/ship/Asia/attack ping. This is it.


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

19 posted on 12/02/2010 5:55:01 AM PST by The Comedian (Government: Saving people from freedom since time immemorial.)
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To: Venturer
Are they as Passe’ as the WW2 Battleship. I suppose it will take a war to find out. Hopefully we never have to.

Aircraft carriers are extremely tough. No aircraft carriers were sunk in the Pacific during WWII, the were burned and scuttled, but the battle damage itself didn't sink them. They can be repaired and reused if they can get a tow to port. Also a carrier is always surrounded by destroyers.

Without air power there is no navy. You're very uniformed, get a clue.

20 posted on 12/02/2010 6:07:29 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: The Comedian; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; aposiopetic; aragorn; ...

The Oligarchy has the technology to defend CONUS as well as Hawaii, Alaska, Guam etc. against all attacks.

The trouble is, the oligarchy is attacking CONUS etc.

itself.

THEY want us shredded, destroyed, at the very least brought to the state of our faces in the dirt.

They are treasonous of the worst sort.
They are satanic of the worst sort.
They are no longer meaningfully human to any significant degree.
They are no longer rational.
They are no longer American.
They are no longer sane.
They are no longer worth used toilet paper.

God has their destiny sealed.

Citizens need to stop fantasizing about meaningless SElections; prepare for the inevitable; PARTICULARLY WALK CLOSE TO GOD and let the evil doers know that the patriotic citizens stand on God’s side and will resist the enemy with everything we have.

As Shadrach, Meshach and Abednigoh asserted . . .

Whatever, Nebuchednezar . . . if we die, we die. Nevertheless, we will still not bow to your idol.

We will not take the Mark of the Beast.

We will not willingly cooperate with the satanic oligarchy.

And the Amils, Posmils, Preterists, REPLACEMENTARIANS amongst us might pray for a new trainload of knowledge, wisdom or brain transplants before they get hogtied with their pants around their ankles.


21 posted on 12/02/2010 6:09:01 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Joe Brower
In my Navy says, this was known, and not with a smile. The phalanx is good, but enough incoming means the carrier's systems would not get them all, and a couple hits are all you need.

Ok, by this logic, it is pretty easy to shoot down a plane, therefore we should use combat aircraft. This non-logic is stupid.

22 posted on 12/02/2010 6:18:31 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

That’s what I ask also.

If a swarm gets though, am confident the procedure is to first smoke the drone base of ops, then Command and Control, then smoke a significant example. Hopefully the Navy will salute nobama with the bird if he tries to interfere.

China talks big for one just crawling beyond massive land troops only strategy. Being able to volume hack internet, steal technology and run simulations is a far cry from effective deployment in theater. This looks a lot more like a sales pitch to fools like iran or hugo.


23 posted on 12/02/2010 6:42:50 AM PST by dusttoyou ("Progressives" are wee-weeing all over themselves, Foc nobama)
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To: central_va

Hmmm Isn’t that what the Battleship Navy said right before WW2 ?

Of course I hope you are right.

I hate to think that 5,700 men a 4.5 Billion dollar ship,with 80 aircraft and 3.5 million gallons of aircraft fuel could be sunk with one drone fired missile or one Cruise type missile.

I do realise that the new weapons on escorting ships are rapid fire and deadly
I also realise that other powers in this world have deadly weapons also.

I also realise that an undetected Chinese Submarine came up next to one of our Carriers in 2007

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/11/10/chinese-sub-pops-up-in-the-midst-of-a-us-carrier-battle-group/

I know I am woefully uniformed as you say, but I know it only takes one shot to get through in the wrong place and we lose a helluva lot of assets.


24 posted on 12/02/2010 6:44:52 AM PST by Venturer
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To: central_va
Huh? Did you even read my post?

Ask any swabbie what a couple of hits by modern missiles would do to a carrier.

This is nothing new. Look at what the Japanese accomplished with their Kamikaze tactics in WWII, which essentially made their aircraft man-guided missiles.

25 posted on 12/02/2010 6:54:33 AM PST by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: Joe Brower
I was a Naval Officer.

To show the fallacy of your argument, suppose the ChiCOMS today right now, had 11 functioning carrier BG's and we had none. How would you "feel" then?

PS: Any damage above the water line could take a carrier out of commission(for a while) it will not sink it. Torpedo damage would be more devastating but still not sink a modern carrier.

26 posted on 12/02/2010 7:31:31 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Venturer
I also realise that an undetected Chinese Submarine came up next to one of our Carriers in 2007

Don't base the performance of the US Navy on peacetime missions. During a real war, that sub would have been destroyed long before getting near an aircraft carrier. During war, things are different.

27 posted on 12/02/2010 7:34:34 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va
Don't base the performance of the US Navy on peacetime missions. During a real war, that sub would have been destroyed long before getting near an aircraft carrier. During war, things are different.

Take it you are not an expert on submarines.

28 posted on 12/02/2010 7:39:48 AM PST by SeeSac
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To: central_va
As history has proved and what I learned as combat doctrine 101, is that you don't have to completely destroy a thing (i.e.: sink a ship) to render it combat ineffective. Again, as any swabbie could tell you, from the days on the Spanish Main and even before.

That same rule goes for pretty much any other asset in theater, from human resources on up.

Missiles have been, are currently and will likely remain an enormous threat. And when you have a dozen or so coming at you at once, well, good luck.

29 posted on 12/02/2010 7:54:28 AM PST by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: SeeSac

I am an expert. There are things that are done during wartime that we would never do in peacetime. During a real war, we take a lot more chances, lets say safety distance change(decrease), our attack subs are more aggressive. I’ve said enough.


30 posted on 12/02/2010 7:55:22 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Joe Brower
I'll give you another chance: I asked:To show the fallacy of your argument, suppose the ChiCOMS today right now, had 11 functioning carrier BG's and we had none. How would you "feel" then?

Please answer the question.

31 posted on 12/02/2010 7:57:53 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va
I am an expert.

What are your credentials?

There are things that are done during wartime that we would never do in peacetime. During a real war, we take a lot more chances, lets say safety distance change(decrease), our attack subs are more aggressive. I’ve said enough.

Have you ever been to see on a submarine or aircraft carrier? Have you ever participated in fleet exercises?

formerly,

SSN-652
CVAN-55.

32 posted on 12/02/2010 8:00:03 AM PST by SeeSac
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To: central_va
"Please answer the question."

Please tell me how your statement is germane to the topic of discussion.

If your implying the force superiority, it would be obvious that one would feel outmatched. Which is one big reason why missiles are so popular; they provide an enormous amount of effectivity against such superior adversaries.

A couple of dozen shore-launched missiles at say, $1 million apiece, will render a carrier out of the fight in a single massive salvo. How much does a carrier cost? Not to mention aircraft, personnel, etc.?

How many missile batteries do the Chinese already have along their coastline?

33 posted on 12/02/2010 8:07:05 AM PST by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: central_va
No aircraft carriers were sunk in the Pacific during WWII

Hmmmm ...

1) IJN Kaga was attacked by US aircraft, bombed and set on fire, sank when on board fuel and ammo supplies exploded. She was NOT scuttled.

2) IJN Soryu was attacked by US aircraft, bombed and set on fire, sank when on board fuel and ammo supplies exploded. She was NOT scuttled.

3) IJN Shokaku was torpedoed and sunk by USS Cavalla.

4) IJN Zuikaku received multiple aerial bomb and torpedo hits, and was sunk.

5) IJN Unryu was torpedoed and sunk by USS Redfish.

6) IJN Shinano was torpedoed and sunk by USS Archerfish. In fairness, Shinano was not complete and was undermanned at the time.

7) IJN Ryujo was sunk by aerial bombardment.

8) IJN Chitose was sunk by aerial bombardment.

9) IJN Chiyoda was sunk by a combination of aerial bombardment and naval gunfire.

I won't bother with the IJN escort carriers, which were mainly merchant hulls with flight decks.

10) USS Yorkown disabled by aerial bombardment, torpedoed and sunk by I-168 while under tow.

Again, I'll leave off the escort carriers; they just weren't built to survive like the fleet carriers.

The Brits lost two or three, but not in the Pacific so I guess they don't count.

34 posted on 12/02/2010 8:10:58 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: The Comedian

BINGO!


35 posted on 12/02/2010 8:12:07 AM PST by houeto ("You know, I actually believe my own bullsh_t," --- BHO)
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To: central_va
No aircraft carriers were sunk in the Pacific during WWII, the were burned and scuttled, but the battle damage itself didn't sink them.

My career Navy father was a member of the old Yorktown swim team and he may have had some disagreement with the fine points of your statement.

36 posted on 12/02/2010 8:16:24 AM PST by DUMBGRUNT (The best is the enemy of the good!)
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To: politicianslie

“Today the DEMO party is lock stock and barrel trying to defeat America before the first shot is fired.”

-

“Free trade” Republicans are China’s strongest supporters.

Dems aren’t even a close second.

Time for import tariffs. Time for a real trade policy.

Time to re-industrialize America. Soon.

Before it’s too late.


37 posted on 12/02/2010 8:19:42 AM PST by Cringing Negativism Network (McCarthy Was Right)
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To: Joe Brower

Exocet and the Falklands


38 posted on 12/02/2010 8:29:13 AM PST by DUMBGRUNT (The best is the enemy of the good!)
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To: Joe Brower
Ok, you are on record as being in favor of foreign governments being superior in sea air assets, including any future aircraft carriers they might deploy. Your point is well taken but not agreed with.

You are so smart; you might want to work for wikileaks.

39 posted on 12/02/2010 8:50:14 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

This is after they were abandoned a left drifting around. Japanese damage control was inferior.


40 posted on 12/02/2010 8:52:44 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: SeeSac
Have you ever been to see on a submarine or aircraft carrier? Have you ever participated in fleet exercises?

Yes to both. During wartime a sub is tracked much differently than peacetime, you know that. Especially inside of hostile territorial waters. The sub in the example given above having popped up next to a carrier, I suspect we had assets, not seen, that knew her exact location all the time.

41 posted on 12/02/2010 8:58:33 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va
Yes to both.

Carrier or sub?

During wartime a sub is tracked much differently than peacetime, you know that. Especially inside of hostile territorial waters.

This was not in hostile waters. It was during a fleet exercise.

The sub in the example given above having popped up next to a carrier, I suspect we had assets, not seen, that knew her exact location all the time.

You 'suspect'? Having been on the 'underwater' side of exercises, I can say that it is a piece of cake for a submarine to sneak up on a carrier. The only defense the carrier has is it's speed.

42 posted on 12/02/2010 9:04:10 AM PST by SeeSac
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To: Quix

Thanks for the ping!


43 posted on 12/02/2010 9:08:58 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: ssugasl231

As much as possible, all Americans should avoid buying anything from China.

The Chinese are definitely NOT our friends.


44 posted on 12/02/2010 9:12:44 AM PST by Lions Gate
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To: central_va
Your objection is noted. I reject it as both irrelevant, and as a probable attempt to "move the goalposts". All of those ships sank directly a result of enemy action; none were scuttled. Fires and secondary explosions do not count as scuttling; they do count as a consequence of the attack.

Yes, IJN damage control doctrine as well as fuel handling and ordnance handling doctrine sucked. Badly. Damage control is one factor an attacker must overcome when attempting to sink a ship. Had their DC been better, some of those ships might have been saved. It wasn't, and they weren't.

The fact remains that we sank several of their fleet carriers and they sank one of ours.

I'll grant that sinking a capital ship (CV or BB) is damn difficult. WWII, along with a whole lot of Cold War and "peacetime" experience (including H-bomb tests and SINKEXes) illustrate the difficulty. But to claim flat out that no carriers were directly sunk in the Pacific in WWII is just plain false.

45 posted on 12/02/2010 9:12:50 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: SeeSac
I can say that it is a piece of cake for a submarine to sneak up on a carrier

Do you doubt there was a SSN right behind that ChiCOM sub? Do you think we would reveal to the world the effectiveness of "other" methods to track subs and their little display of hubris meant nothing?

46 posted on 12/02/2010 9:23:28 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va
Do you doubt there was a SSN right behind that ChiCOM sub? Do you think we would reveal to the world the effectiveness of "other" methods to track subs and their little display of hubris meant nothing?

I can't say specifically on that event but I can say it was possible that there was NOT a SSN right behind it.

47 posted on 12/02/2010 9:32:04 AM PST by SeeSac
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To: ArrogantBustard
But to claim flat out that no carriers were directly sunk in the Pacific in WWII is just plain false.

I meant to say none of our carriers, but still they are damn hard to sink no question.

48 posted on 12/02/2010 9:33:44 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: SeeSac
I can't say specifically on that event but I can say it was possible that there was NOT a SSN right behind it.

Based on my experience I would say the probability is very high there was one there. I would say in wartime, no Admiral is going to send a flattop anywhere without first knowing the position of every SSN, unless the mission was extremely critical and worth the risk. That is what they are paid for, to make that decision.

49 posted on 12/02/2010 9:40:34 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va
Based on my experience I would say the probability is very high there was one there.

Were you a submariner? Or familiar with submarine ops?

I would say in wartime, no Admiral is going to send a flattop anywhere without first knowing the position of every SSN, unless the mission was extremely critical and worth the risk. That is what they are paid for, to make that decision.

The Chinese sub was not a SSN.

50 posted on 12/02/2010 9:47:37 AM PST by SeeSac
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