China sells its drones using videos of them destroying US aircraft carriers

Libradex ^ | Libradex.com

[central_va]

Have you ever been to see on a submarine or aircraft carrier? Have you ever participated in fleet exercises?

Yes to both. During wartime a sub is tracked much differently than peacetime, you know that. Especially inside of hostile territorial waters. The sub in the example given above having popped up next to a carrier, I suspect we had assets, not seen, that knew her exact location all the time.

[SeeSac]

Yes to both.

Carrier or sub?

During wartime a sub is tracked much differently than peacetime, you know that. Especially inside of hostile territorial waters.

This was not in hostile waters. It was during a fleet exercise.

The sub in the example given above having popped up next to a carrier, I suspect we had assets, not seen, that knew her exact location all the time.

You 'suspect'? Having been on the 'underwater' side of exercises, I can say that it is a piece of cake for a submarine to sneak up on a carrier. The only defense the carrier has is it's speed.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[Lions Gate]

As much as possible, all Americans should avoid buying anything from China.

The Chinese are definitely NOT our friends.

[ArrogantBustard]

Your objection is noted. I reject it as both irrelevant, and as a probable attempt to "move the goalposts". All of those ships sank directly a result of enemy action; none were scuttled. Fires and secondary explosions do not count as scuttling; they do count as a consequence of the attack.

Yes, IJN damage control doctrine as well as fuel handling and ordnance handling doctrine sucked. Badly. Damage control is one factor an attacker must overcome when attempting to sink a ship. Had their DC been better, some of those ships might have been saved. It wasn't, and they weren't.

The fact remains that we sank several of their fleet carriers and they sank one of ours.

I'll grant that sinking a capital ship (CV or BB) is damn difficult. WWII, along with a whole lot of Cold War and "peacetime" experience (including H-bomb tests and SINKEXes) illustrate the difficulty. But to claim flat out that no carriers were directly sunk in the Pacific in WWII is just plain false.

[central_va]

I can say that it is a piece of cake for a submarine to sneak up on a carrier

Do you doubt there was a SSN right behind that ChiCOM sub? Do you think we would reveal to the world the effectiveness of "other" methods to track subs and their little display of hubris meant nothing?

[SeeSac]

Do you doubt there was a SSN right behind that ChiCOM sub? Do you think we would reveal to the world the effectiveness of "other" methods to track subs and their little display of hubris meant nothing?

I can't say specifically on that event but I can say it was possible that there was NOT a SSN right behind it.

[central_va]

But to claim flat out that no carriers were directly sunk in the Pacific in WWII is just plain false.

I meant to say none of our carriers, but still they are damn hard to sink no question.

[central_va]

I can't say specifically on that event but I can say it was possible that there was NOT a SSN right behind it.

Based on my experience I would say the probability is very high there was one there. I would say in wartime, no Admiral is going to send a flattop anywhere without first knowing the position of every SSN, unless the mission was extremely critical and worth the risk. That is what they are paid for, to make that decision.

[SeeSac]

Based on my experience I would say the probability is very high there was one there.

Were you a submariner? Or familiar with submarine ops?

I would say in wartime, no Admiral is going to send a flattop anywhere without first knowing the position of every SSN, unless the mission was extremely critical and worth the risk. That is what they are paid for, to make that decision.

The Chinese sub was not a SSN.

[SeeSac]

Also a carrier is always surrounded by destroyers.

Were you really on a carrier?

[central_va]

I was the sonar officer on a Frigate and did cross training on SSN’s.

[LonePalm]

CV-55 was canceled.

Did you mean USS Enterprise (CVN-65)?

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

[SeeSac]

I would say in wartime, no Admiral is going to send a flattop anywhere without first knowing the position of every SSN, unless the mission was extremely critical and worth the risk.

You would say. I would say differently.

[GOPJ]

Don't base the performance of the US Navy on peacetime missions. During a real war, that sub would have been destroyed long before getting near an aircraft carrier. During war, things are different.

I suspect in anything resembling an 'all out war' - we would win - easily.

[SeeSac]

I was the sonar officer on a Frigate and did cross training on SSN’s

Then you should be aware of how 'noisy' a carrier group is and how a sonar officer on a Frigate is practically blind when it comes to detecting an electric submarine. We used to play inside carrier groups and laugh at the heliocopters darting back and force each time they thought they had found us.

[Venturer]

Yes thing are different during a war. That sub would have fired a torpedo.

Remember in war there are two sides to every story.
We all hope that our side always wins, but unfortunately the other side hopes so too.

Anyone who underestimates the opposite side will lose. What makes anyone think that we are totally capable of protecting so large a target at all times?

Your optimism is great, but the other side is improving every day also.

[central_va]

I suspect in anything resembling an 'all out war' - we would win - easily.

Well for now anyway. We make practically no steel in this country anymore, that is as big a threat to national security as anything else.

[central_va]

Then you should be aware of how 'noisy' a carrier group is and how a sonar officer on a Frigate is practically blind when it comes to detecting an electric submarine. We used to play inside carrier groups and laugh at the heliocopters darting back and force each time they thought they had found us.

How do you know you weren't being tracked by "other" means? I cannot discuss this on a public forum.

Maybe you're right, we should just scuttle our whole surface fleet and leave it up to the bubble heads you guys can do it all.

[EyeGuy]

“We make practically no steel in this country anymore, that is as big a threat to national security as anything else.”

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That, and a top Command Staff concerned about “diversity” issues and political correctness, not to mention a Legislature that is allowed to safely make, openly treasonous statements before the world.