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Soldier's sanity debated in murder case
UPI.com ^ | 12-1-2010 | staff report

Posted on 12/02/2010 11:02:10 AM PST by smoothsailing

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Additional information:

Accused soldier delusional, parents say

Facebook page-In Support of PFC David Lawrence

1 posted on 12/02/2010 11:02:12 AM PST by smoothsailing
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To: jazusamo; lilycicero; Defend Our Marine

Jaz, I’ve posted this article at the request of lilycicero and DefendOurMarine. I’ve included all the information I have. They have requested that we spread the word on this case.

Please ping our lists.


2 posted on 12/02/2010 11:07:44 AM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing

Main Entry: phar·ma·cy
Pronunciation: ‘fär-m&-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
Etymology: Late Latin pharmacia administration of drugs, from Greek pharmakeia, from pharmakeuein to administer drugs,
from pharmakon magic charm, poison, drug
Date: 1651
1 : the art, practice, or profession of preparing, preserving, compounding, and dispensing medical drugs
2 a : a place where medicines are compounded or dispensed b : DRUGSTORE
3 : PHARMACOPOEIA 2
The term magic arts comes from the original word,
pharmakia, from which we also get the word pharmacy. It
also refers to the use of drugs, or sorcery. Those involved
in sorcery get high on drugs in order to make it easier to
contact demons. Pathetically today, millions of young
people are getting in bondage to Satan through the use of
drugs without even knowing it.

Most people taking drugs claim there aren’t any harmful
affects from drugs. But drugs act as a tool to open the
mind, and leave you defenseless against evil spirits entering
and taking possession. Ninety percent of those who belong
to the church of Satan started on drugs.

As mentioned earlier, the mystics of the east use drugs in
order to go into a trance which enables them to make
contact with the spirits, and they are soon possessed by
them. Charles Manson is a typical example of one who
became possessed by evil spirits through drugs. Revelation
18:23 - sorceries (Pharmakia, in the Greek) = drugs.


3 posted on 12/02/2010 11:10:03 AM PST by donna (Synonyms: Feminism, Marxism, Communism, Socialism, Fascism, Islam ism)
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To: smoothsailing
Brett and Wendy Lawrence told the Times their son had told them he was hearing voices, including one that told him how to avoid roadside bombs.

I believe him. The voices MUST have been real. After all, he didn't hit any road side bombs while he was in Afghanistan, did he?

4 posted on 12/02/2010 11:21:14 AM PST by WayneS (Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm. -- James Madison)
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To: smoothsailing
But others said they saw him after the killing and heard him talk about claiming an insanity defense.

I fail to see why this proves anything. So, he was crazy, on meds and hearing voices, and his defense attorney told him that he planned to plead insanity because he was, well, crazy. And he told a couple of his friends what the lawyer had said to him.

That hardly makes it a plot of some kind.

5 posted on 12/02/2010 11:25:36 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius.)
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To: smoothsailing

Can we give him a medal?


6 posted on 12/02/2010 11:26:48 AM PST by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: smoothsailing; 4woodenboats; American Cabalist; AmericanYankee; AndrewWalden; Antoninus; ...

Pinging lists to posts 1 & 2. Thanks for the heads up, Smooth.


7 posted on 12/02/2010 11:28:34 AM PST by jazusamo (His [Obama's] political base---the young, the left and the thoughtless: Thomas Sowell)
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To: Cicero

Crazy people aren’t supposed to know they are crazy.

If they plead insanity, then they are by definition sane.

lol.


8 posted on 12/02/2010 11:30:13 AM PST by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: smoothsailing

While I understand there could be some intel value to the Taliban commander, in all likelihood, the local village leaders would have just shown up and said he was a simple farmer and we’d free him to generate good will.

What this Soldier did was neither crazy or immoral.

God Bless him.


9 posted on 12/02/2010 11:32:49 AM PST by South Hawthorne (In Memory of my Dear Friend Henry Lee II)
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To: Cicero

I agree with you, and crazy or not, “killing Taliban commander Mullah Mohebullah” oughta at least merit an attaboy.


10 posted on 12/02/2010 11:50:06 AM PST by smoothsailing
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To: GeronL

Yes, and a brand new car!!!


11 posted on 12/02/2010 11:52:04 AM PST by smoothsailing
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To: Owl_Eagle

Dittoes!


12 posted on 12/02/2010 11:53:09 AM PST by smoothsailing
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To: jazusamo

Thanks Jaz, hopefully we’ll learn more about this. I havn’t had time to go through the Facebook info, but something tells me this PFC is getting railroaded.


13 posted on 12/02/2010 11:59:40 AM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing

It sorta sounds that way. I haven’t read anything but your post because I logged on after your ping. I’ll do some looking today and let me know if you discover anything.


14 posted on 12/02/2010 12:09:24 PM PST by jazusamo (His [Obama's] political base---the young, the left and the thoughtless: Thomas Sowell)
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To: jazusamo; smoothsailing
Thanks for the ping, jaz. A little more info here: Carson soldier on antidepressants accused of killing Afghan prisoner

This is truly a sad situation. Supposedly his family has a history of schizophrenia....after he began hearing voices, he sought help upon advice from his parents. The military gave him anti-depressants (for schizohprenia???!!!!) and sent him back on duty only after a few days. If this young man suffers from this mental illness, the military has a lot to answer for by disregarding his symptoms and forcing him back on active duty.

The article notes he was nodding off during his court appearance and when he did speak, his speech was slurred. He's probably on a much stronger anti-psychotic at this point.
15 posted on 12/02/2010 12:18:07 PM PST by Girlene
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To: Girlene; smoothsailing
The Army denied Culp’s request, saying regulations do not require the court to put the case on hold until the psychiatric results are obtained.

That boggles the mind. After the way that the Haditha Marine cases were and are strung out and this judge can't even postpone an Article 32 hearing until a psych exam is completed? This is wrong in so many ways.

Thanks for the link, Girlene. You're right, it's a very sad situation!

16 posted on 12/02/2010 1:06:34 PM PST by jazusamo (His [Obama's] political base---the young, the left and the thoughtless: Thomas Sowell)
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To: Girlene

Even making him go back on active duty with an anti-depressant after a few days would be way too soon if he was truly suffering from depression! (It takes a couple weeks for someone to start feeling the effects of that type of medication, and in the meantime it can leave you feeling even WORSE!)

The doctor should be forced to explain why he wasn’t put on an anti-psychotic, and given medical leave. Whether he is truly insane or not at this moment, it is (IMHO) the DOCTOR who should be facing questioning, and loss of freedom!


17 posted on 12/02/2010 1:08:07 PM PST by LibertyRocks (Anti-Obama, Pro-Palin Gear: http://www.cafepress.com/SarahPalin2012)
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To: Girlene; jazusamo
Thanks Girlene. From your link...

An Army-ordered psychiatric evaluation is under way to determine whether he understands the charges and is capable of participating in his own defense.

In a motion to delay the hearing, Lawrence’s attorney, James Culp of Austin, Texas, said it’s wrong for the Army to hold hearings in the case when its unclear whether the soldier understands what’s going on.

“I think its breathtakingly irresponsible,” Culp said after the hearing.

The Army denied Culp’s request, saying regulations do not require the court to put the case on hold until the psychiatric results are obtained.

I don't get it, what's the rush? Why can't the government wait until the evaluation is completed.

It's not like they don't let Marines and soldiers sit around for years waiting for trial.

18 posted on 12/02/2010 1:08:07 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: Girlene; jazusamo; smoothsailing

I think they may have this backward. What he should be pleading with an insanity defense is “The people running this dog and pony show ARE COMPLETELY INSANE”.

No joke people.

They don’t have Rules of Engagement anymore. They have Terms of Endearment.

I gotta go. If you would like, you can come stand in the closet and SCREAM WITH ME!


19 posted on 12/02/2010 1:14:55 PM PST by bigheadfred (Don't mind me. I'm just embracing my inner psychopath.)
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To: GeronL; Cicero
Crazy people aren’t supposed to know they are crazy. If they plead insanity, then they are by definition sane.

NOT TRUE.

20 posted on 12/02/2010 1:17:17 PM PST by bigheadfred (Don't mind me. I'm just embracing my inner psychopath.)
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To: GeronL

I want him severely punished with a promotion to Corporal, a medal and at least two weeks of RR not charged as ordinary leave.


21 posted on 12/02/2010 1:23:42 PM PST by Ronin ("Dismantle the TSA and send the screeners back to Wal-Mart.")
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To: jazusamo; Girlene; lilycicero; Defend Our Marine; donna; GeronL; LibertyRocks; Owl_Eagle; WayneS; ..
There's a political angle to this which explains the rush to judgement.

From PFC Lawrence's Facebook Page...

................................................

PFC David W. Lawrence is an American soldier from Indiana. He is the son of Brett and Wendy Lawrence. David is 20 years old.

PFC Lawrence is accused of shooting Mullah Mohebullah on Oct. 17 while guarding him in Kandahar province, Afghanistan. Mullah Mohebullah was a senior Taliban commander. The death was announced by an angry Afghan President Hamid Karzai.

"We are going to an Article 32 for a kid who is hearing voices," James Culp, PFC Lawrence's attorney, said. He also said he was concerned the Army might be rushing the case to court-martial to appease Karzai. PFC Lawrence's 706 investigation (ordered to determine whether he is mentally competent to stand trial) is expected to be finished Dec. 10. PFC Lawrence's attorneys fought to delay this week's hearing until the mental competency evaluation process was completed. The request was denied. The Article 32 hearing took place on November 29 and 30 at Ft. Carson, Colorado.

David is currently being treated with potent drugs for schizophrenia.

Less than a week before the shooting, PFC Lawrence was examined by doctors and given drugs for depression and sleeplessness. Days later, he was put on guard duty at a detention center in the Arghandab district of Kandahar province, despite having no training for it.

David told his father that he was seeing soldiers who had died in Afghanistan, including Capt. Dale Goetz. He told his father "... he could see the chaplain with only half a head remaining," Capt. Dale Goetz was a chaplain in the 4th Infantry Division for the 66th Armor Regiment’s 1st Battalion based out of Ft. Carson, Colorado. Capt. Goetz is the first Army chaplain killed in combat in 40 years. Capt. Goetz was David's friend. It was a known fact that David was closer to the chaplain than anyone else in the platoon.

This young man comes from a wonderful family, and has very loving, caring parents who are undoubtedly afraid of what lies ahead. This is going to be a lengthy battle. Costs for specialists, travels to and from Colorado and all the costs involved with repeated week long stays there, medical evaluations, and doctors are adding up.

This family needs help. Please show your support of PFC David Lawrence by making a contributions to his defense fund: United Community Bank, 19710 Stateline Road, Lawrenceburg, IN 47025. Please make checks payable to "FOB PFC David W. Lawrence" Any contribution, no matter how small is huge to the Lawrence family.

Please keep PFC Lawrence and family in your prayers.

22 posted on 12/02/2010 1:24:16 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: bigheadfred; RedRover

See post #22.


23 posted on 12/02/2010 1:26:25 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing

Thanks so much for posting this, Smooth! :)


24 posted on 12/02/2010 1:28:54 PM PST by Defend Our Marine
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To: bigheadfred

That was supposed to be a funny.


25 posted on 12/02/2010 1:35:02 PM PST by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: Ronin

That would be a fitting tribute... I mean punishment!


26 posted on 12/02/2010 1:36:15 PM PST by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: Ronin

That would be a fitting tribute... I mean punishment!


27 posted on 12/02/2010 1:36:50 PM PST by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: Defend Our Marine

This stinks of politics...

“The case drew worldwide attention after Afghan President Hamid Karzai issued a blistering condemnation of the killing a day after Mohebullah died.”

Read more: http://www.gazette.com/articles/soldier-108811-mental-illness.html#ixzz16zY8H1su


28 posted on 12/02/2010 1:39:51 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: GeronL

I know. I’m just in the middle of embracing my inner psychopat.


29 posted on 12/02/2010 1:43:46 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: smoothsailing; bigheadfred
The death was announced by an angry Afghan President Hamid Karzai.

Your post from facebook says a whole lot in just a few words. I wonder if this Mohebullah is in any way connected to Karzai's corrupt payola money trail. I know that's a silly question, of course he was.

The judge running this hearing only had to delay it two weeks, I'm going to join bhf in screaming.

30 posted on 12/02/2010 1:46:30 PM PST by jazusamo (His [Obama's] political base---the young, the left and the thoughtless: Thomas Sowell)
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To: smoothsailing; jazusamo
Thanks, smooth. I've known some of the particulars of this case for a while.

SCREAM WITH ME

I guess I forgot to mention Curt and James were already in the closet...

31 posted on 12/02/2010 1:48:11 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: smoothsailing
How do you "murder" a Taliban commander?

At best, you either punish him for murders committed, or prevent him from murdering by venting his thick, empty skull.


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

32 posted on 12/02/2010 1:58:44 PM PST by The Comedian (Government: Saving people from freedom since time immemorial.)
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To: The Comedian

It’s the same chickensh** game where the US Government thinks they are the sole possessor of the right to deem what is an act of war. And what is murder. And there is no guideline to follow. Just the whim of the day.


33 posted on 12/02/2010 2:46:53 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: bigheadfred; GeronL

I think he was kidding, although I’m not sure. In any case, he has a lawyer, and it’s the lawyer who decides what to plead.

I think I might go crazy too, if I was stuck in Afghanistan and my superiors ordered me to keep the chamber empty in my weapon and never to shoot back at someone just because they happened to be shooting at me.


34 posted on 12/02/2010 2:50:39 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius.)
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To: Cicero; GeronL
I think he was kidding, although I’m not sure. In any case, he has a lawyer, and it’s the lawyer who decides what to plead.

Since when do you have to lawyer up for making a joke on an open forum?

LOL

35 posted on 12/02/2010 2:57:40 PM PST by bigheadfred (STAND IN THE CORNER AND SCREAM WITH ME...)
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To: jazusamo; bigheadfred
I wonder if this Mohebullah is in any way connected to Karzai's corrupt payola money trail. I know that's a silly question, of course he was. The judge running this hearing only had to delay it two weeks, I'm going to join bhf in screaming.

I'm with you. What is it about this particular muzzie mullah that got Karzai's bloomers all twisted?

...........................................

Press Release
October 19, 2010

President Karzai Orders Probe into Killing of Afghan Detainee in Kandahar

President Hamid Karzai has ordered security agencies to investigate the killing of an Afghan detainee who was allegedly shot dead by Coalition forces in Arghandab prison in Kandahar.

Reports from Arghandab indicate that coalition forces entered a prison around 9:30 pm on Sunday evening and shot dead a detainee named Mullah Mohibullah.

President Karzai has instructed all security agencies and the local officials in Kandahar to investigate the incident and its circumstances and report on its findings to the President’s Office.

http://www.president.gov.af/


36 posted on 12/02/2010 4:40:48 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: bigheadfred; jazusamo

Other Afghans who were there said they were not sure if the detainee was trying to escape at the time that he was killed. Local elders said the detainee was a local Taliban commander named Hajji Mohammed who had given a different name, Mullah Muhibullah, to the Americans.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/20/world/asia/20kabul.html?_r=1


37 posted on 12/02/2010 4:59:02 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing

It didn’t take Karzai any time at all to start screaming like a castrated pig. I would have thought he’d meet with American commanders before going bonkers.


38 posted on 12/02/2010 5:18:11 PM PST by jazusamo (His [Obama's] political base---the young, the left and the thoughtless: Thomas Sowell)
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To: jazusamo; smoothsailing; Girlene
Ok, people. Maybe this is something. According to the article:

Lawrence, 20, is charged with premeditated murder for allegedly killing Taliban commander Mullah Mohebullah in his cell Oct. 17, hours after his capture.

Looks like he was a "new" arrival. But according to this:

Four key Taliban figures detained in Quetta swoop

They had this guy in 2007. Somehow they failed to recognize the threat he posed, even though it appears he was a top aide to Omar or, some deal was made with Karzai. There is an opium connection. There is the Pakistan connection.

My guess is, they let this guy go, he is responsible for more deaths of our troops, captured once again and our boys called BS probably figuring he would be released AGAIN and organized a hit.

39 posted on 12/02/2010 5:37:03 PM PST by bigheadfred (STAND IN THE CORNER AND SCREAM WITH ME...)
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To: jazusamo
There's another angle here besides Karzai, as if that wasn't bad enough.

"Open Society Foundations" has popped up in one of the articles I've run across. So now there's a George Soros connection.

40 posted on 12/02/2010 6:20:57 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: bigheadfred; jazusamo; Girlene
our boys called BS probably figuring he would be released AGAIN and organized a hit.

Good stuff, Fred.

Mullah Omars secretary Mohibullah, popularly known as Haji La La

La La?

From post #36 above...

Reports from Arghandab indicate that coalition forces entered a prison around 9:30 pm on Sunday evening and shot dead a detainee

Coaltion Forces, not just one lone PFC.

41 posted on 12/02/2010 6:41:39 PM PST by smoothsailing
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Witness Sgt. 1st Class John Murphy said Lawrence seemed resigned to fate while in the Kandahar jail.

“He said

‘If they punish me for killing an enemy of my country, what can I do?’

,

” Murphy said.

Read more: http://www.gazette.com/articles/soldier-108811-mental-illness.html#ixzz170pWr7bf

42 posted on 12/02/2010 6:57:49 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing; jazusamo; Girlene

I thought I read that 10 people were under investigation.


43 posted on 12/02/2010 7:06:42 PM PST by bigheadfred (STAND IN THE CORNER AND SCREAM WITH ME...)
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To: bigheadfred; smoothsailing

Good stuff by both of you.

If it was known this turkey was captured and released previously it could very well have had something to do with it.

I guess it’s not too surprising that Soros would have his filthy fingers in this somehow. Ugh!


44 posted on 12/02/2010 7:14:10 PM PST by jazusamo (His [Obama's] political base---the young, the left and the thoughtless: Thomas Sowell)
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To: bigheadfred; jazusamo
I havn't read about 10 people, but have seen references to "coalition forces" and "soldiers".

Here's another twist...

........................................

On Monday, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization released a statement saying a detainee was found dead in his holding cell on Sunday, after being arrested during an operation on Saturday night.

"The detainee was shot after four or five other detainees were taken out of the holding cell," said an Afghan official familiar with the investigation. "After the shot was heard, the soldiers went to the cell and found the dead body."

The Afghan official's account was confirmed by coalition officials.

Source

Were the "four or five other detainees" removed from the cell so they couldn't identify the shooter? Was PFC Lawrence capable of doing all that alone?

45 posted on 12/02/2010 8:06:43 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing; jazusamo

I can’t seem to find it smooth. Perhaps I misread something. I’m going to check with someone tomorrow that might have more details. And it may have come from an earlier conversation with them.

Really seems like they are hushing and rushing this.

Most of what I can find is the same spiel.

I will tell you I was told about a month ago “Don’t expect to see anything in the news about this”.

Seems like that assessment is dead on. But that person would definitely know for sure.


46 posted on 12/02/2010 8:32:29 PM PST by bigheadfred (STAND IN THE CORNER AND SCREAM WITH ME...)
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To: jazusamo

I’m heading to the closet to “scream my head off!”


47 posted on 12/02/2010 9:51:14 PM PST by Semper Fi Mom (Mother of a Marine and proud of it! (www.WeSupport Frank.com))
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To: Semper Fi Mom; jazusamo; bigheadfred; lilycicero; Defend Our Marine

UPDATE

Soldier charged in shooting sent to mental facility



The Denver Post

Posted: 12/03/2010 01:00:00 AM MST
Updated: 12/03/2010 08:21:43 AM MST

A Fort Carson soldier charged with fatally shooting a jailed Taliban member in Afghanistan was transferred to a mental-health facility Thursday, his father said.

Pfc. David Lawrence was admitted for inpatient treatment, Brett Lawrence told The Associated Press. The father said the facility is in Colorado, but he did not know the name or the city.

Fort Carson officials said they couldn't comment because of privacy rules...

.........................................................................

Read more: Soldier charged in shooting sent to mental facility - The Denver Post

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_16765071#ixzz174mONuUb

48 posted on 12/03/2010 11:16:06 AM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing; 4woodenboats; American Cabalist; AmericanYankee; AndrewWalden; Antoninus; ...

Thanks for posting and the heads up, Smooth.

Schizophrenia is a terrible thing if that in fact is what he suffers from. Hopefully he can be treated successfully regardless of the disease.


49 posted on 12/03/2010 11:25:44 AM PST by jazusamo (His [Obama's] political base---the young, the left and the thoughtless: Thomas Sowell)
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To: jazusamo

Prayers.(((((Hugs)))))


50 posted on 12/03/2010 12:17:06 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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