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A Political Approach on Reforming Schools (FL)
St. Petersburg Times ^ | 5 December 2010 | Editorial

Posted on 12/05/2010 4:46:07 AM PST by Jacquerie

Contrary to what is best for students, Florida Republicans are once again drawing battle lines over education reform. Gov.-elect Rick Scott fell into the trap last week by appointing an education transition team tilted against traditional public schools and in favor of private schools and tuition vouchers.

Scott's education transition team is packed with advocates for private school vouchers, charter schools and changes in teacher tenure. Scott's team includes Michelle Rhee, the controversial former Washington, D.C., school chancellor credited with ending teacher tenure there, and John Kirtley, a voucher advocate who has had repeated success in expanding the state's program for low-income students.

(Excerpt) Read more at tampabay.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: fl; schools; spartansixdelta; teachers; vouchers
Governor-elect Rick Scott has the moonbats screaming.

In case anyone was wondering what Michelle Rhee was up to . . . heh, heh.

I think Scott and a our overwhelming conservative legislature will make lots of headlines in 2011.

1 posted on 12/05/2010 4:46:10 AM PST by Jacquerie
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To: Jacquerie

This is good news. There is basically no such thing as winning any sort of a culture war while sending your children off to the enemy for indoctrination.


2 posted on 12/05/2010 4:48:13 AM PST by wendy1946
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To: Jacquerie
an education transition team tilted against traditional public schools and in favor of private schools and tuition vouchers.

Good on 'em! And accusations of being "political" from Democrats are hypocritical and ridiculous. Anything to do with government-run schools is political; it goes without saying.

3 posted on 12/05/2010 4:54:17 AM PST by Tax-chick (We know that terrorists are Moslems. I repeat, we know that terrorists are Moslems.)
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To: Jacquerie

Please.
The Saint Petersburg Times is so far left that it would be thrown out of the St. Petersburg in Russia today.


4 posted on 12/05/2010 4:58:33 AM PST by bill1952 (Choice is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
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To: Jacquerie

The Democrat Party is a criminal enterprise promoted by the MSM. SP Times is a Communist Front.


5 posted on 12/05/2010 5:07:51 AM PST by screaminsunshine (Americanism vs Communism)
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To: Jacquerie

Sounds like an excellent start. These public school advocates just don’t get it. Poor student performance is always somebody else’s fault — it couldn’ possibly be the teacher’s fault. Why would Scott put the people who caused the problem in charge of fixing it ? The mind boggles.

What was it Obama said ? Something about elections having consequences ? Why do liberals always think they deserve a place at the table when they are in the minority, but lock out conservatives when they are in the majority ? Their arrogance is stunning.


6 posted on 12/05/2010 5:07:55 AM PST by Kellis91789 (There's a reason the mascot of the Democratic Party is a jackass.)
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To: Jacquerie
lol stocking up on popcorn for this one.... more to follow from the loony left I am sure..... As for my fellow FReepers who think that I only post what I don't like about Rick Scott... It certainly appears that he will be getting 2 thumbs up from me on his choice of Michelle Rhee... we must not take our eyes of the bigger picture and that is the FRS IMHO. David
7 posted on 12/05/2010 5:16:40 AM PST by davidosborne (I am SpartanSixDelta)
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To: Jacquerie

Its about time they start doing something that is unsocial ism, good going Scott.


8 posted on 12/05/2010 5:17:25 AM PST by ravenwolf (Just a bit of the long list of proofs)
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To: Tax-chick
What, and risk exposing our precious children to free-market capitalism! How on earth do you expect them to grow up and take their rightful place in the entitlement society we have created.

Are you trying to create a bunch of free-thinkers! < /SARC>

9 posted on 12/05/2010 5:28:01 AM PST by Aevery_Freeman (Fear God and Government - especially when one tries to become the other!)
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To: Jacquerie

Translation - We’re outraged! How dare you use our own tactics against us???


10 posted on 12/05/2010 5:41:00 AM PST by Senator John Blutarski (The progress of government: republic, democracy, technocracy, bureaucracy, plutocracy, kleptocracy,)
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To: Aevery_Freeman
risk exposing our precious children to free-market capitalism

Why, they might get *jobs* when they grow up, if we do that!

11 posted on 12/05/2010 5:44:35 AM PST by Tax-chick (We know that terrorists are Moslems. I repeat, we know that terrorists are Moslems.)
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To: Jacquerie
Contrary to what is best for students, Florida Republicans are once again drawing battle lines over education reform. Gov.-elect Rick Scott fell into the trap last week by appointing an education transition team tilted against traditional public schools and in favor of private schools and tuition vouchers.

The writer could have made his point more clearly: "Contrary to what is best for the Teacher's Unions, Florida Republicans are once again drawing battle lines over education reform. Gov.-elect Rick Scott chose a kid=friendly strategy last week by appointing an education transition team focused exclusively on meeting the needs of Florida's students . . ."

12 posted on 12/05/2010 5:52:49 AM PST by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
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To: wendy1946

Spot on comment


13 posted on 12/05/2010 5:52:52 AM PST by mek1959
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To: Tax-chick

Don’t worry, the ‘Rats are working on extending the antidote for jobs (Unemployment Insurance) as we type.


14 posted on 12/05/2010 5:53:28 AM PST by Aevery_Freeman (Fear God and Government - especially when one tries to become the other!)
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To: Tax-chick

or even worse! they might turn into job creators! The horror!


15 posted on 12/05/2010 5:57:01 AM PST by stefanbatory (Insert witty tagline here)
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To: Jacquerie

Sounds good to me! Michelle Rhee had actually started to make headway in DC, but I guess she was too much of a threat to the status quo.


16 posted on 12/05/2010 6:01:26 AM PST by livius
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To: bill1952
Re: The ST Petersburg times...

LOL! I always tell them they are way too liberal when they call wanting to give me the paper “free”. I like your line better!

17 posted on 12/05/2010 6:02:40 AM PST by GILTN1stborn
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To: Jacquerie

What is best for our childrens education is that it is taken away from the unions and federal government control and given back to the parents.
You could not pay me to have a child in the government run schools..


18 posted on 12/05/2010 6:16:11 AM PST by SECURE AMERICA
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To: Kellis91789
I live in Florida, and my girlfriend is a teacher in the public school system. The ones who were the most vocal against SB 6 were the teachers. As the article says, "Teacher pay would be based on students' learning gains, even though there was not yet a proven system for measuring those gains." That's just one aspect of it. Another is, in the business world you can change the people under you; in the public school system you play the cards dealt you. If the parents are not involved in the students' education, what chance for success does the teacher have?
To rush SB 6 would be tantamount to doing what we accuse liberals of always doing, acting out of feelings and not considering the unintended consequences.
19 posted on 12/05/2010 6:25:58 AM PST by klgator
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To: davidosborne

I have an idea to really put the screws to the public indoctrination system but it would require all homeschooled as well as private schooled kids to “register” for the public school they are zoned for and call the school informing them that they require a seat in the classroom.... there is no way ANY school would be able to comply with this demand


20 posted on 12/05/2010 6:50:42 AM PST by davidosborne (I am SpartanSixDelta)
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To: klgator

What changes to public education does your teacher girlfriend recommend?


21 posted on 12/05/2010 7:04:09 AM PST by Jacquerie (What has your government done to you today?)
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To: Jacquerie

Right now there should be a State created complete virtual elementary and secondary school curriculum, available online to any registered student and their parents.

Likewise, there should be freeware software available to parents and experts to grow the curriculum in intelligent ways.

In online forums that are part of the system, registered parents can rate and discuss modules and their improvement. And parents can select the non-standard modules they want to provide for their own children, so modules would be rated for their popularity as well as quality.

Importantly, such a curriculum is not limited to being linear, but would have add on modules for depth. So, for example, if a student became interested in Gerald Ford, they could pursue right from the system into biographies of Ford.

The value of such as system in parallel with public, religious, private schools and home schooling, is important for several reasons.

1) It provides teachers with a rough guide they can flesh out with their own instruction.
2) It provides far more potential curriculum subjects than could ever be taught otherwise.
3) It is multimedia, so includes video, audio, and computer interactivity.
4) It is not dependent on the slowest student in a class, nor is it limiting to smarter students.
5) It is available wherever computers are available, so strongly helps transient students keep up their studies.


22 posted on 12/05/2010 7:11:29 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: Jacquerie

Changes to public education?

Just to name ONE...

#1 quit propogating liberal/social worldviews.. I am not suggesting that every teacher needs to be a Christian but it sure would help if they were and were not strangled by a bogus MIS-interpretation of “Separation of Church and State” .. I suggest a strong separation of SCHOOL and STATE !


23 posted on 12/05/2010 7:12:28 AM PST by davidosborne (I am SpartanSixDelta)
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To: davidosborne

FYI.. I have been a member of this alliance for many many years even BEFORE my kids were born..

http://www.schoolandstate.org/home.htm


24 posted on 12/05/2010 7:21:19 AM PST by davidosborne (I am SpartanSixDelta)
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To: wendy1946

I just understood the derivation of the “Poynter” in Poynter Institute (real owners of the St. Pete Times) - it is derived from the obligatory ‘pointy’ little heads of its members.

Why the odd spelling? Being UberLibs, a mere “Pointer Institute” would simply never do.

For those fortunate enough to not have been raised where the Times was on all too many street corners, that rag is more Commie than Pravda.

True happiness is reading a whine about how Thatcher is going to come to a horrid political end ‘cause he, and all those evil Pubbies, will destroy the Edumacators union and perks.

;-)


25 posted on 12/05/2010 7:44:20 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: livius

Rhee had certainly threatened the status quo, which is why both she AND Fenty got shown the door. But, she wasn’t getting much in the way of results, if by “results” we mean improvements in student performance. In fact, she has a lot in common with that other highly touted “school reformer”, Arne Duncan, who did all the things the “reformers” urged and got nowhere. Moreover, Rhee is not the squeaky clean heroine that some seem to think. There is a lot that doesn’t get much attention concerning her involvement with Sacramento’s mayor, Kevin Johnson, that would surprise most of those whose image of Rhee essentially comes from the Time cover story of a year or so back.

Conservatives understand that single-payer (socialized) medicine doesn’t work - in fact, it is a disaster and cannot be made to work. It can only be replaced. Nevertheless, conservatives irrationally think that somehow single-payer, socialized “education” just needs to have the right people in charge and all will be well. Socialist models fail every time they are tried. Government school can’t be reformed. The model is the mistake. The “education” reform that we need is the dismantling of the government school system.


26 posted on 12/05/2010 8:11:45 AM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

No conservative should be advocating a “State” created curriculum or school. Moreover, we have experience with virtual charters in several states - Idaho being one. The achievement level for state virtual schools is even below achievement levels for traditional government schools.


27 posted on 12/05/2010 8:14:58 AM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: bill1952

Please.
The Saint Petersburg Times is so far left that it would be thrown out of the St. Petersburg in Russia today.


LOL....and so true....the St Petersburg in Russia would be burning the far-left St Pete Slimes


28 posted on 12/05/2010 8:22:24 AM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (Isolationism and Protectionism sure beat Globalism and Communism)
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To: achilles2000

Amen!! Key emphasis on SEPARATION of School and State <— and FED


29 posted on 12/05/2010 8:25:35 AM PST by davidosborne (I am SpartanSixDelta)
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To: klgator

I live in Florida, and my girlfriend is a teacher in the public school system. The ones who were the most vocal against SB 6 were the teachers. As the article says, “Teacher pay would be based on students’ learning gains, even though there was not yet a proven system for measuring those gains.” That’s just one aspect of it. Another is, in the business world you can change the people under you; in the public school system you play the cards dealt you. If the parents are not involved in the students’ education, what chance for success does the teacher have?
To rush SB 6 would be tantamount to doing what we accuse liberals of always doing, acting out of feelings and not considering the unintended consequences.


Interesting points.

The only problem I see with most GOP plans to fix education is this plan to “Evaluate teachers based on student performance”. In Florida, this means the FCAT tests

This usually means more of our taxpayer monies spent, with more centralized government running our schools....we end up with more government and more government spending when we assess the student, school, and teacher

No wonder that Ted Kennedy went along with GW Bush on “No Child Left Behind”....it means more tax dollars spent and more government control of schools.....it is the wet dream of Socialists like Kennedy

You do not need an “assesment of schools” to give out vouchers to give to kids to get them out of weak schools. Their parents and kids are usually the best assesors of how bad a school is...without big governement spending or control


30 posted on 12/05/2010 8:30:22 AM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (Isolationism and Protectionism sure beat Globalism and Communism)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
You speak “public union school teacher” very well.
31 posted on 12/05/2010 9:40:15 AM PST by Jacquerie (Barack Hussein Obama, under the character of a parent, persists in behaving as a tyrant.)
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To: Jacquerie

Smaller classrooms
Reading, Writing, Arithmetic
Discipline in the classroom
Teachers dressing like teachers which means RESPECTFUL
No one in the halls during classes unless they have a hall pass for a real reason
Quiet in the classroom
Raise hands to ask questions
Homework turned in in the morning
Teachers and Parents working together
Respectful dress of females. No skin showing.
Respectful dress of mailes. No hats, drooping pants.
No cell phones used in the classroom
Respect for one another
Work with those who want to learn
Seems simple enough doesn’t it?
It all boils down to sitting in the classroom even if that classroom is in a grassy lot...but, sitting listening to the teacher TEACH and then doing the work.


32 posted on 12/05/2010 9:50:47 AM PST by cubreporter ( Trust Rush and you won't go wrong.)
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To: cubreporter
Yes, it does sound simple. However, the PC police, courts, poverty pimps, Dept of non-Education, etc disagree and would never allow most of your list.

Hmmm, a bit off topic now, but I cannot think of a single Leftis dominated institution that isn't worse off for it. K-12, university, the courts, Congress, some churches, big cities, many states . . . most are on the brink of collapse of some sort.

Democrats Soil Institutions.

33 posted on 12/05/2010 10:03:02 AM PST by Jacquerie (Democrats Soil Institutions.)
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To: Jacquerie

Yep and..democrats/liberals soil LOTS of things.

The country will come back around to common sense values but we have to get the parents back to knowing they are parents and behaving like such instead of being BFF’s to their kids. The kids have enough BFF’s what they need are responsible parents who say NO and Teachers who need to stop acting like BFF’s also. It doesn’t work.

Parents be parents
Teachers be teachers
Kids be kids but with discipline and guidance.

Leave it to the dem/libs and yes, the whole system will colapse (it’s just about there) and then we can begin anew.


34 posted on 12/05/2010 10:26:09 AM PST by cubreporter ( Trust Rush and you won't go wrong.)
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To: cubreporter

you would think all that would be common sense... but unfortunately the looney left would call everything you mentioned too “extreme” and non-progressive


35 posted on 12/05/2010 10:33:43 AM PST by davidosborne (I am SpartanSixDelta)
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To: achilles2000

That is why it can only function in parallel to the other systems, and not as a State controlled system. Instead, picture the idea of an educational marketplace, where parents would create, rate, review and purchase, as it were, there curriculum they want their children to have.

The only real State input into this is creating the framework, and setting up the mandatory standards of what children must be taught so that they can successfully pass already existing mandatory government tests. Beyond that, it is as wide open as Wikipedia, but with competition to help insure quality.

Eventually, I can imagine half a dozen corporations selling curriculum, as well as lots of public domain curriculum, as well as individual modules created by private experts. I can also imagine some pretty heated disputes about what should be taught as fact. But the arguments will have no sway, compared to the parents choice.


36 posted on 12/05/2010 10:54:56 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: Jacquerie

Not a bit. If you were to create a curriculum for your children, and post it to this site, that would be your children’s curriculum, as well as if other parents saw what you did and liked it.

And there are some top notch home school educators as well. And they already swap lots of all sorts of knowledge. Imagine if what they did was available for many, many other home schoolers?

Just the opposite of union anything.


37 posted on 12/05/2010 10:59:33 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy; All

When the state gets to set the tests, the state controls what gets taught. Until the last 130 years the federal and state governments had virtually no role in controlling curriculum. When there was no government involvement - say 1800 - Americans were more literate than they are today.

Government destroys almost everything it touches outside of national defense. Why do we have this superstitious belief that “government” (politicians and bureaucrats)make things better? What evidence do we have for this? The EPA? Social Security? The Post Office? Energy policy?


38 posted on 12/05/2010 11:09:09 AM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: achilles2000

Government has controlled public education since Jefferson. That being said, for a virtual curriculum market to exist, it has to be limited to just students, their parents, and experts to provide content. Not government bureaucrats, pedophiles, marketers, politicals, or other such scoundrels.

So I gave the wrong impression, that this would be a government project. In fact, the government input would be like that of market regulation, much like it is when a better government regulates home schooling, to insure that it is not misused to deny education, and achieves at least minimal standards—while not inhibiting its doing much better than that.

And yes, there are plenty of bad government stories from home schooling advocates. But also plenty of times when they worked with government to achieve a good educational and legal environment, that was at least tolerable.

It is important to mention the value of such a system, where today there is no system. Transient students, students who become ill for an extended time, students with other problems, can lose years of education because there is nothing for them outside what exists right now.

Add to that that education for most students is very dependent on their relationship with their teachers. Invariably there will be good teachers and good students with poor chemistry between them for nobody’s fault, that learning just doesn’t take place. For there to be some, any alternative, by which the student can learn the material is essential that an opportunity isn’t lost.


39 posted on 12/05/2010 12:43:28 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy; All

You haven’t the slightest idea what you are writing.

There was no government school system in Jefferson’s time. Did you ever hear of Horace Mann? If you have, did you ever wonder why HE is famous? Do you know when he lived? When was the first compulsory attendance law passed and where? Did it have anything to do with Mann? Did it have anything to do with creating a government school system? Who was Jabez Curry? When did he live and what was he known as? In what year did every state in the union finally have a compulsory attendance law? (Hint: it was less than 100 years ago) When did Jefferson die?

Apart from this historical matter, which isn’t all that important, why are you advocating educational statism? Are you a socialist or some sort?

As for regulating homeschooling, NO GOVERNMENT ANYWHERE OUGHT TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO REGULATE HOMESCHOOLERS AND IN MANY STATES THEY LACK THAT POWER. Moreover, every peer-reviewed study done has shown that government regulation of homeschooling DOES NOT improve academic outcomes.


40 posted on 12/05/2010 1:30:46 PM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: achilles2000

“After the Declaration of Independence, 14 states had their own constitutions by 1791, and out of the 14, 7 states had specific provisions for education. Jefferson believed that education should be under the control of the government, free from religious biases, and available to all people irrespective of their status in society. Others who vouched for public education around the same time were Benjamin Rush, Noah Webster, Robert Coram and George Washington.”

That being said, you seem to ignore what I wrote in favor of being agitated with what you are prejudiced to believe I wrote. Therefore further discussion is irrelevant.


41 posted on 12/05/2010 1:59:02 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: davidosborne

Oh I know. It’s such a simple solution they couldn’t even begin or imagine to begin to understand it. They wear blinders and it’s their way or the highway. That’s what makes us and them so different. They are happy wo keep everything in chaos whereas we want to move forward with everyone working towards bettering their lives. You’d think their followers would know this by now but...then again....


42 posted on 12/05/2010 2:40:39 PM PST by cubreporter ( Trust Rush and you won't go wrong.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Not one of those Constitutions required anything like what we know as the public school system. What Jefferson and Rush may have “vouched for” or “believed in” is also very different from actually having a public system at that time. Moreover, not one of them would have endorsed a government school system as it was created by Mann and the Unitarians. The schools Rush had in mind would have been tax funded Protestant parochial schools, for example.


43 posted on 12/05/2010 3:15:41 PM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: cubreporter

Add me to your ping list if you have one. I look forward to reading your posts


44 posted on 12/06/2010 5:32:42 AM PST by davidosborne (I am SpartanSixDelta)
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To: davidosborne

I don’t have a ping list but I thank you very much for the kind words. Merry Christmas to you and yours.


45 posted on 12/07/2010 10:23:31 AM PST by cubreporter ( Trust Rush and you won't go wrong.)
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