Skip to comments.Here's what happens when you bring a gun to the police station [VIDEO](must read comments)
Posted on 12/10/2010 6:12:05 AM PST by marktwain
Joel Rosenberg tried to bring a gun into the Minneapolis Police headquarters and the cops wouldn't let him.
Now Rosenberg is accusing the cop who took his gun of assault.
Earlier this month, Rosenberg, who says he is a science fiction writer and handgun instructor, paid a visit to the MPD chief's office to pick up some documents he'd requested. Sgt. William Palmer, the public information officer, saw that Rosenberg was packing, and asked him to dump the gun. Rosenberg refused. He insisted he had the right to wear his gun.
Palmer explained that a court order prevented him from carrying the gun. Rosenberg disagreed.
So Palmer physically took the gun away from Rosenberg and unloaded the cartridge. He handed it back when Rosenberg agreed to put the gun in his car.
Here's a video of what happened. Warning: all the action takes place in the first minute or so. After that, it is a deathly boring clip of a desk.
(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.citypages.com ...
We used to call this:
Using a Forearm during the commission of a Violent Felony
Unlawful Transfer of a Firearm
not to mention the clear and blatant violation of title 18 section 241,242. The Police are not your friends , they are tyrants doing the bidding of the Ruling Class. If it were me, A formal Criminal complaint would have been filed right before the Civil Lawsuit for Deprivation of Rights. But then again The jack booted thug was just doing his job and following orders, where have we heard that excuse before??
I went on a diet back in 1997. All I see nowadays is a lot of people that need to avoid McDonalds.
Same thing in this video.
“Rosenberg, who says he is a science fiction writer...”
Stupid author of this article. Joel Rosenberg *is* a science fiction & fantasy author:
>>Using a Forearm during the commission of a Violent Felony
I’ve got an ulna, THIS IS A STICKUP!
Didn’t see a reference to an arrest. The firearm was returned when he agreed to put it in his car.
MINNEAPOLIS - Joel Rosenberg is a Minneapolis gun rights advocate and author of several fantasy novels.
"...Rosenberg later poked fun at Palmer in another video that shows him pulling a half-dozen guns and a knife out of his jeans, while wearing a t-shirt that reads, I am not armed, please dont hurt me.
"He even posted an open letter to Palmer on his website, which said, When you stupidly lunged at me to grab my knife and gun, you didnt watch my hands. One of them was on my backup gun, the other was within an inch of my backup knife.
“But police may end up getting the last laugh. They arrested Rosenberg Wednesday morning for having a dangerous weapon in a courthouse and contempt of court.”
Wow, the cop took the time to pull the bullet and pour out the powder? That's a thorough disarming all right.
Yes. The construct of that sentence is a typical sign of a lazy journalist, who is too stupid to research, or too scared to mess up his research and get something wrong.
By saying “says he is”, the journalist is certain that he got the facts right, since the journalist has a recording of the person saying that.
This happens all the time in election coverage. Rather than research, reporters just quote the two campaigns, even when they are disagreeing about something like whether a candidate voted for or against a bill, something easily learned by looking up the records.
Case/Count Description of Charge Charged By Reason for Arrest Severity of Charge State of Charge Bail Information Court Appearance Date/Time Court Appearance Location
1/1 DANGEROUS WEAPON-POSSESS-IN COURTHOUSE MINNEAPOLIS PD WARRANT FELONY $100,000
BAIL SET BY DC 1/7/2011..08:30 DOWNTOWN Address
1/2 CONTEMPT OF COURT - WILLFUL DISOBEDIENCE TO COURT MANDATE MINNEAPOLIS PD WARRANT MISD $0
1/7/2011..08:30 DOWNTOWN Address
Another oh, by the way, two days later she was robbed at gunpoint. Enjoy.NRA: The Untold Story of Gun Confiscation After Katrina
Minnestoopid cops. It figures.
I go to some bicycle races dressed as the Grim Reaper (black hooded robe, halloween scythe - plastic). Typically I would go to the worst hill on the course. The racers and officials, as well as some cycling fans, get a kick out of it. It’s similar to the Devil that shows up at the Tour de France. Well, at one race I was accused of assaulting the racers. The person was not associated with the race at all, but was a typical Minnesota ninny-nanny. And yes, the doofus called the police, who responded.
Yeah, I noticed they finally nailed him for it.
Over the years I have been summons 4 times to jury duty...The first was in Federal Court in Downtown Detroit,
The second was Macomb county court in Mt. Clemens (I was excused from sitting jury there as it had been less than an year since I had sat in Federal Court. (your not obligated to sit more than once per year on jury duty)
The third time was District court in Sterling Heights Michigan,
The 4th time was in Lapeer County Michigan (had a good reason for the judge to let me off duty)
Tempers run high in court rooms and I am all for no guns allowed in those area's...I personalty saw one fight break out in the hall way at Lapeer. (I was sitting in the hall waiting to be called as a witness).It ended up with a little girl about 6 being knocked down on the floor because the 2 women fighting didn't give a damn about the kid and she belong to one of them. Sure glad neither one of them had a gun...
Any one that has spent time around courts would be very leery of anyone toting a gun within the building....If you have ever watched the TV show on what really goes on in court cases and the fights that break out would be a fool to want anyone carrying a gun in those instances....It is not an unusual request....I have to say the same for going into a police station packing just to make a point....
It is not unreasonable to tell the person to lock their gun in their car.
Too many people looking for their 15 minutes of fame would do what this guy did....he was being stubborn and unreasonable.....
Notice how the badge-wearing moron appears to point the gun at the lady behind the counter when he is racking the slide to clear the round in the chamber.
“If it were me, A formal Criminal complaint would have been filed right before the Civil Lawsuit for Deprivation of Rights.”
As I recall, Joel filed charges against Palmer immediately after the incident. This arrest appears to me to be a blatant attempt to coerce Joel into dropping charges and the civil suit.
“Too many people looking for their 15 minutes of fame would do what this guy did....he was being stubborn and unreasonable..... “
This was not a courthouse and Joel was well within his rights. Someone has to stand up to officials who will not obey the law. The problem is that it is very difficult to get the courts to hold judges accountable for their illegal acts.
It’s going to be hard to nail the cop if he was right about the gun needing to be checked.
That lady had left the scene by that time.
No, at 1:33 in the video, he is leveling the gun apparently at the lady behind the counter, and certainly in disregard for anyone beyond.
The problem is he was setting up a dangerous situation with someone (the guy with the badge) that is not is the position to interpret the judges order.
If the guy wanted to challenge the order, he could have set it up so as not to get tempers flared or have the situation get out of order. I give him two thumbs down for putting several people at risk with intentionally creating a confrontation between two armed people in a public area.
She apparently hit it.
Thanks for the time stamp. He is pointing the gun at the blank wall to the left of him and clear of the lady to the right of him. If I had been that lady, I would have left the scene with the other lady.
He is pointing the gun at the blank wall to the left of him and clear of the lady to the right of him.
The video is conclusive. He was pointing the gun to his left, the lady was on his right. Simulate the action yourself and it would be extremely unatural to point the gun to the right given the position of his left hand on the action.
Ive got an radius, THIS IS A STICKUP!
The ulna is the inner bone.
I can't knowledgably speak concerning the court order, but as far as state law goes, I perused 39 pages of the Minnesota firearms laws, and couldn't find any reference to a courthouse or jail being off-limits.
Not at all sure the officer knows what he's talking about.
Places Where Pistols are Off-Limits or Restricted even with a Permit to Carry
Despite the general rule that permits to carry pistols are valid statewide, pistols, or other firearms, are nevertheless restricted or not allowed in the following places:
· Correctional facilities or state hospitals (Minn. Stat. ‘ 243.55)
· County jails (Minn. Stat. ‘ 641.165)
· Courthouse complexes, unless the sheriff is notified (Minn. Stat. ‘ 609.66)
· The Capitol area, unless the commissioner of public safety is notified (Minn. Stat. ‘ 609.66); “capitol area” is defined in Minn. Stat. § 15.50, subdivision 2.
· Afield while hunting big game by archery, except bear (Minn. Stat. ‘ 97B.211)
Additionally, firearms are not permitted in federal court facilities or other federal facilities (Title 18 U.S.C. ‘ 930). This is just one of many federal laws regulating firearms. Federal law must also be consulted to ensure compliance with all applicable firearms laws.
If he notified them(and I read that he did)he should be in the clear. Hopefully done via certified mail.
Tempers run high in court rooms and I am all for no guns allowed in those area's...
The statute in Minnesota does not allow local communities to ban guns. The only places where guns are forbidden are those specified in state or federal law. The City of Minneapolis cannot add its own.
Courthouses are covered specifically under the state statute. Carry is forbidden in court buildings, unless you have a permit and have specifically informed the county sheriff that you intend to carry in the courthouse.
There are those that argue that despite the statute, basic separation of powers principles provide that judges have the authority to ban guns in their courtrooms, regardless of what the legislature might do. Given that it's a court that's going to decide this case, I expect that will turn out to be true. The question is how broadly can such orders can be written.
Immediately after the shall-issue bill passed, a number of courts issued judicial orders banning guns - but not just in their courtrooms, but usually over considerably wider venues.
Most of the suburban courtrooms are in government centers that are in a shared complex with a regional public library. These libraries are usually in the same building", but have no publicly accessible connection from one to the other. In some cases, they have no connection whatsoever, and only share a common wall. The judicial orders as originally issued purported to ban carry in the adjacent libraries, as well. These have generally been withdrawn, as being clearly over-broad.
Minneapolis City Hall, of course, is not a courthouse. It contains a couple of courtrooms, back up in the garrets, that haven't seen regular use in a number of decades. The "courthouse" is across the street, in the court tower of the Hennepin County Government Center. The two are connected by an underground tunnel.
The charge, in this case, is that Joel has violated the court order banning carry in the Minneapolis City Hall. There is no question that he has. The issue is whether the courts have authority to ban carry over so wide an area, when the statute clearly states that they do not.
The hope is that this case will result in a precedent establishing that courts do not have an unrestricted authority to impose gun bans in violation of statute.
Personally, I'd not bet that it comes out that way.
Here is an update on Joel Rosenberg:
Interestingly, in my follow up searching, I came across this...
2009 Minnesota Statutes...2009 307.08... Subd. 2.Felony; gross misdemeanor.(a) A person who intentionally, willfully, and knowingly does any of the following is guilty of a felony: ....(3) discharges any firearms upon or over the grounds of any public or private cemetery or authenticated burial ground.
Wonder if that means that in Minnesota, anyone firing three rifle volleys at the funeral of a veteran would be charged with a felony.
Trying to make sense of the constantly changing and frequently conflicting firearms laws makes my head spin.
I think that a no guns in the courthouse is not unreasonable, but as has been mentioned, outside of the courthouse, a judge is overstepping his bounds....That I agree with.
I know a man that was walking out of the court ROOM in a contentious divorce, the female tried to jump the man before he was out of the courtroom and his lawyer had to step up and stop her....emotions run too high in courts to allow anyone a gun. Innocent bystanders can get killed during a shoot out in a court...it has happened when one person was able to get a gun into the area... GG
The policeman, Palmer was polite and professional...he is in a position of having to follow court orders and I note that when he told Rosenberg that he was in violation of his permit, the man that had the gun in his possession, Rosenberg decided to comply with the police mans request...As I said I only watched the first 2 minutes and Rosenberg was looking for a fight. He put a camera in the office and I think he was hoping for a hard nose to push him around.
He got a professional officer and that spoiled his chance for a law suit. As one of the commentators at the site said, he knew this guy and he had sued before.
He was the jerk and not the cop. If I had a CCP, this is not the guy I would want as my poster boy for CCP.
If Rosenberg has a problem with the court order, challenge it is the courts not set up a camera hoping to be able to sue someone...
Further more Rosenberg is not the arbitrator of what is or is not constitutional, nor is he the arbitrator of what is or is not a lawful court order...
Palmers only statement when questioned was that the law covered any building that houses courtrooms or jails. If there were courtrooms or jails in this building he doesn't have a leg to stand on and as I said in my first post, he is a guy looking for a lawsuit...Hope he fails on a grand scale...he is neither a lawyer nor an officer of the court...he came across to me as a smart ass that decided he didn't want to endanger his CCP by standing his ground and I assume he left with his gun....
To take over an hour to completely down load the whole thing was not necessary by the guy Rosenberg's own writings, as he said all the action took place in the first 1 to 2 minutes... GG