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New Yorkers Squabble Over Christmas Decorations in Their Buildings
New York Times ^ | 12-10-10 | Vivian S. Toy

Posted on 12/11/2010 9:03:53 AM PST by van_erwin

Holiday decorations can easily become controversial because Christmas is both a national and a religious holiday, and anything that refers to Christmas can feel like “an alien symbol being forced upon a non-Christian population,” said Jack Santino, a professor in the department of popular culture at Bowling Green State University.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: New York
KEYWORDS: christmas; pc; secularism
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1 posted on 12/11/2010 9:03:58 AM PST by van_erwin
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To: van_erwin

I’m sorry, but if seeing a Christmas tree makes you feel “alienated,” perhaps the United States of America is not the country you want to be living in.


2 posted on 12/11/2010 9:04:48 AM PST by van_erwin
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To: van_erwin

Gee, isn’t that just too damn bad?

Love it or leave it


3 posted on 12/11/2010 9:05:37 AM PST by A_Former_Democrat (NO MOS-que AP: It's the "GROUND ZERO MOSQUE")
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To: van_erwin; shurwouldluv_a_smallergov; Judith Anne; rkjohn; PadreL; Morpheus2009; saveliberty; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

4 posted on 12/11/2010 9:07:37 AM PST by narses ( 'Prefer nothing to the love of Christ.')
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To: van_erwin
The militant secularists don't like Christmas decorations on public buildings, but they support anti-Christian bilge being displayed at the Smithsonian Institute. Doesn't that sound hypocritical?
5 posted on 12/11/2010 9:08:42 AM PST by Clintonfatigued (Illegal aliens commit crimes that Americans won't commit)
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To: van_erwin

Imagine moving to Saudi Arabia and complaining that observation of Ramadan and people praying on rugs five times a day make you uncomfortable.


6 posted on 12/11/2010 9:09:18 AM PST by Iron Munro (This is our culture; fight for it. This is our flag; pick it up. This is our country; take it back.)
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To: van_erwin

I love how more and more the Christmas tree is (properly IMHO) seen as a Christian symbol. There is nothing sadder than someone (like the one mentioned in the article) saying that a Christmas tree is a secular symbol.


7 posted on 12/11/2010 9:11:04 AM PST by icwhatudo ("laws requiring compulsory abortion could be ustained under the constitution"-Obama official)
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To: van_erwin
You know, last Saturday I went to a company function. One of my co-workers showed up wearing a Sikh turban in honor of "Sikh Awareness Month". I was not horrified or disgusted or offended. Because I am a true believer that everyone has a right to their own beliefs and I honor them.

Perhaps, tolerance should also be extended to religions. I am tired of leftists who are intolerant.

8 posted on 12/11/2010 9:18:32 AM PST by w1andsodidwe (How can you tell when the President is lying? When his lips move, of course.)
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To: van_erwin

I was raised a heathen in a half-Jewish/half-humanist household, and I have NO problem with Christmas. I especially like protestant white people. They make the best neighbors, imo.


9 posted on 12/11/2010 9:19:13 AM PST by Huck (Antifederalist BRUTUS should be required reading.)
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To: van_erwin

Jack Santino has not yet quite grasped what it is to be an American. We are tolerent of religious symbols. Christmas is so secularized that one wonders how any religious significance is visible in a department store display.


10 posted on 12/11/2010 9:19:26 AM PST by Citizen Tom Paine (An old sailor sends)
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To: icwhatudo

The Christmas tree is not a Christian symbol.


11 posted on 12/11/2010 9:20:07 AM PST by Bryanw92 (Obama is like a rocket scientist....who's trying to do brain surgery with a hammer.)
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To: van_erwin
We added a 25' lighted cross to our Christmas lights this year, and have received nothing but positive comments from the folks in our town. You can see the cross from an interstate freeway, so we expect that we might get a complaint or challenge of some sort before it's all said and done.

Photobucket

12 posted on 12/11/2010 9:22:26 AM PST by JustaDumbBlonde (Don't wish doom on your enemies. Plan it.)
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To: van_erwin

Alienated? Then go back to where you came from. Assimilate or get out!!


13 posted on 12/11/2010 9:25:42 AM PST by EagleUSA
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To: Clintonfatigued

**The militant secularists don’t like Christmas decorations on public buildings,...**

But same said idiots are accepting militant islam Without Question...

Hypocrisy, thy name is LIBERAL!!


14 posted on 12/11/2010 9:26:08 AM PST by gwilhelm56 (Mr. Al NotSoSharp... your RACE CARD has been Declined...it's Over the LIMIT!!)
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To: JustaDumbBlonde
You can see the cross from an interstate freeway, so we expect that we might get a complaint or challenge of some sort before it's all said and done.

OK. I'm complaining. You should have done one that is 100 ft. high. So I could see it from my house. :-)

15 posted on 12/11/2010 9:26:53 AM PST by bigheadfred (STAND IN THE CLOSET AND SCREAM WITH ME)
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To: Bryanw92

**The Christmas tree is not a Christian symbol.**

It is however ...a CHRISTMAS Symbol.

Now we have people on BOTH SIDES who want to Piss on a person’s Good TIme.


16 posted on 12/11/2010 9:28:44 AM PST by gwilhelm56 (Mr. Al NotSoSharp... your RACE CARD has been Declined...it's Over the LIMIT!!)
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To: Bryanw92
Every known civilization from time immemorial has celebrated the winter solstice. I sincerely urge all of those resident in the US who do not like the traditional Christian methods for doing so, to STFU.

Feel free to celebrate the season in your own heathen way and make sure you invite me to the party. If this is not an acceptable deal for you, spend the holiday season somewhere else, where the western Christian methods of celebration will cause you no perceived discomfort.

Permit me to wish all Worthy Oriental Gentlemen a very happy (?) Ramadan, and a joyous Eid.

17 posted on 12/11/2010 9:29:42 AM PST by Kenny Bunk (America can survive fools in office. It cannot long survive the fools who vote for them.)
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To: Bryanw92
"The Christmas tree is not a Christian symbol.

Yes...it is.

"Having abandoned its sombre dress for a scintillating splendour, it is transfigured and becomes the messenger of a light that is not its own but bears witness to the true Light that comes into this world. This tree's destiny is comparable to that of the shepherds: while they were watching in the shadows of the night, here they are illumined by the Angels' message. This tree's destiny is also comparable to our own, for we are called to bear good fruits to show that the world has truly been visited and redeemed by the Lord. Standing beside the crib, this fir, in its own way, demonstrates the great mystery that was present in the simple, poor place of Bethlehem. To the inhabitants of Rome, to all the pilgrims and to all who will visit St Peter's Square through the television images broadcast across the world, it proclaims the coming of the Son of God."

The Pope On The Christmas Tree

18 posted on 12/11/2010 9:31:17 AM PST by icwhatudo ("laws requiring compulsory abortion could be ustained under the constitution"-Obama official)
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To: van_erwin

Is professor Jack Santino really stupid enough to think that Christmas is not about Christ?


19 posted on 12/11/2010 9:32:56 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain & proud of it: Truly Supporting the Troops means praying for their Victory!)
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To: van_erwin

Its all about offending Islam.

Since nobody can fight against Islam and win since we elected one as POTUS then most of America would rather not be possibly targeted by Islamic terrorists.


20 posted on 12/11/2010 9:34:09 AM PST by Eye of Unk (If your enemy is quick to anger, seek to irritate him. Sun Tzu, The Art of War.)
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To: van_erwin

21 posted on 12/11/2010 9:34:34 AM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country! What else needs said?)
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To: A_Former_Democrat

Its too bad that love it or leave it will not work.
I fear Christmas will soon be outlawed on the streets and on the tell a vision as well.


22 posted on 12/11/2010 9:34:41 AM PST by winodog
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To: JustaDumbBlonde

Great job on the Cross! Thanks for being such a witness for Christ.


23 posted on 12/11/2010 9:35:09 AM PST by thethirddegree
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To: gwilhelm56

>>It is however ...a CHRISTMAS Symbol.

Yes it is. I should have said that. I’m sorry for the omission. I have a Christmas tree in my house, but I recognize that it isn’t a symbol of Jesus’ birth and has no scriptural significance. That makes it an important part of the secular side of Christmas, and the secular side of Christmas is an important part of western civilization.

I’m not trying to piss on your Good Time. I just try to keep it in perspective.


24 posted on 12/11/2010 9:37:31 AM PST by Bryanw92 (Obama is like a rocket scientist....who's trying to do brain surgery with a hammer.)
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To: Bryanw92
There are some Christians who don't tolerate Christmas Trees, or, in fact, Christmas celebrations.

Not far from Fort Wayne Indiana there's a cluster of Scandinavian Lutheran farmers who don't do Christmas no way no how ~ their published church schedules don't show anything at all happening after December 12 to the second Sunday in January.

They can be that bad.

There are other Christians who celebrate Christmas and also are tolerant of Christmas trees even to the extent of setting them up inside their homes.

So, the Christmas Tree is not Christian? And who taught you that? And what do you think the heavily decorated tree is all about? Could it be the substitute sacrifice that took the place of human beings about the time the people of the North German plain gave up human sacrifice (barely over 1000 years ago).

I think of it as representing an amnesty from oblivion ~ that doesn't make it Christian but it does make it Godly.

I'm not in the habit of kicking Godly things or Godly people. Are you?

25 posted on 12/11/2010 9:37:44 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: van_erwin
I live in a classic Manhattan co-op apartment building, with dozens and dozens of units. The vast majority of our residents are (surprise) Jewish.

We have a beautiful seven-foot tall CHRISTMAS tree in the lobby, lovingly decorated by several Jewish women. We wrap and place gifts for donation to a nearby church underneath it.

At the building's annual HOLIDAY party, the kids play dreidel literally in the shadow of the tree, as the adults sip eggnog and listen to Christmas carols.

26 posted on 12/11/2010 9:37:50 AM PST by NativeNewYorker (Freepin' Jew Boy)
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To: xzins
Is professor Jack Santino really stupid enough to think that Christmas is not about Christ?

I think it is an attempt to reach the people that are that stupid. And that is getting to be a pretty big crowd..

27 posted on 12/11/2010 9:39:25 AM PST by bigheadfred (STAND IN THE CLOSET AND SCREAM WITH ME)
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To: van_erwin

The sky is not blue therefore I get my way. /s


28 posted on 12/11/2010 9:41:07 AM PST by VRWC For Truth (Throw the bums out who vote yes on the bailout)
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To: thethirddegree

Thank you. We are actually humbled to be under that Cross every night when we plug in the lights.


29 posted on 12/11/2010 9:42:39 AM PST by JustaDumbBlonde (Don't wish doom on your enemies. Plan it.)
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To: bigheadfred

Can that many people really be that stupid? It’s gotta be a gag. We’re gonna wake up one day and say, “that was the stupidest dream ever.”


30 posted on 12/11/2010 9:45:19 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain & proud of it: Truly Supporting the Troops means praying for their Victory!)
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To: van_erwin
I’m sorry, but if seeing a Christmas tree makes you feel “alienated,” perhaps the United States of America is not the country you want to be living in.

Amen. Most normal people have 0 problems with any type of holiday (be it secular or religious) display, even if it is something they do not celebrate. I am getting so sick of a small group of people, even one person, getting their way when they want to ruin holiday celebrations for other people. Seriously... they need to move to a different country.

31 posted on 12/11/2010 9:46:33 AM PST by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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To: van_erwin

The fact that there IS sometimes heated squabbling over the issue is heartening. For decades our side just grumbled and bent over. Finally, we’ve learned that turning the other cheek only gives the enemy another shot with the branding iron.

Previously, only one ACLU type had to complain and the authorities or landlords rolled over. Not anymore.


32 posted on 12/11/2010 9:48:57 AM PST by sinanju
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To: van_erwin
the department of popular culture at Bowling Green State University.
An entire department? Really? Unbelievable. From their website:Oh yeah, well worth $17K+ a year. And then they wonder why they can't get a job. Oy.
33 posted on 12/11/2010 9:49:18 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: xzins
It’s gotta be a gag

In the younger people I think, yeah, there are a lot. They can tell all about Lady Gaga (gag-gag) but nothing about Jesus Christ.

34 posted on 12/11/2010 9:51:15 AM PST by bigheadfred (STAND IN THE CLOSET AND SCREAM WITH ME)
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To: van_erwin

Personally, I think the people that are offend by Christmas decorations and carols are being petty and peevish.


35 posted on 12/11/2010 9:53:30 AM PST by MsLady (If you died tonight, where would you go? Salvation, don't leave earth without it!)
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To: van_erwin

it’s New York, they have to BI**H about something


36 posted on 12/11/2010 9:53:32 AM PST by markman46 (engage brain before using keyboard!!!)
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To: van_erwin
As a Jew, this makes me mad as heck. This country was founded by Christians who were wonderful enough to allow all others to come here and make it.

I feel privileged as an American of Jewish background to live in this greatest of all countries, allowed to practice my religion free of fear. While all of these complainers are not Jewish, allow me to apologize for the ones who are and have not a clue.

As far as I'm concerned, they have chutzpah to the nth degree. Democrats all...I know all of my conservative Jewish friends feel the same way I do.

37 posted on 12/11/2010 9:55:25 AM PST by Pharmboy (What always made the state a hell has been that man tried to make it heaven-Hoelderlin)
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To: van_erwin

What a bunch of hate filled pieces of garbage!


38 posted on 12/11/2010 9:57:52 AM PST by KC_Conspirator
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To: NativeNewYorker
In the 50s and early 60s I went to school in a small LI town about 15-20 miles east of Manhattan.
We had Christmas parties in school back then, but we also celebrated the Jewish holidays as well.
I learned more about their religion, traditions and customs from my Jewish classmates then I ever did anywhere else.
I cherish the memories.
39 posted on 12/11/2010 9:59:05 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: van_erwin

Whereas the simple Latin Cross was planted by Columbus when
he discovered this New world;
As the simple Latin Cross was planted by the Crew that brought Rev.Hunt to Cape Henry,1607: As the First legal document drafted in American Waters-The Mayflower Compact was a Christian Covenant: and as John Jay— and other New Yorkers of the Founding era were unashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ— IF Christmas decorations are offensive to unbelievers ?Muslims and the like if they feel these are being forced on them I suggest they STAY home until sometime after the New Year.


40 posted on 12/11/2010 10:01:08 AM PST by StonyBurk (ring)
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“......forced upon a non-Christian population....” What is he talking about? Even where they are strongest, in urban islands like NY,LA and a few suburbs around Chicago and Cleveland, non Christians—Jews, Muslims and Buddhists— are still small minorities. The vast majority of people in America remain at least nominally Christian. It is appalling that a handful of cranky Jews or aggressive Muslims can demand that Christmas be driven from the public square. And make no mistake: it also creates deep seated divisions and resentment.
41 posted on 12/11/2010 10:01:08 AM PST by Godwin1
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To: van_erwin

Well just leave if you do not like it.


42 posted on 12/11/2010 10:03:05 AM PST by Cheetahcat ( November 4 2008 ,A date which will live in Infamy.)
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To: van_erwin
I’m sorry, but if seeing a Christmas tree makes you feel “alienated,” perhaps the United States of America is not the country you want to be living in...

...and if walking by something makes it feel "forced upon" you, then I have bad news for various forms of Islamonuttiness...and burkas are definitely our of here.

43 posted on 12/11/2010 10:10:10 AM PST by gogeo ("Every one has a right to be an idiot. He abuses the privilege!" Groucho Marx)
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To: Clintonfatigued

In my office, we have a ceramic Christmas tree (rescued from a random storage room). Snowflakes hanging from the ceiling, tinsel with little green and red ornaments hanging in the windows.

On Monday, next to the tree, I will set up a Nativity scene.

On the table with the tree and Nativity will be a card, which says: “These Christmas decorations represent my feelings about Christmas. They help me to “be of good cheer” during this busy, stressful time of year. They are in no way meant to influence you, your religion or lack thereof. Any attempt on your part to portray this display as a violation of the separation of church and state clause of the Constitution will be met with the following:

1. I will school you on the constitution.

2. I will say “Dude, seriously? You really wanna sue the Prosecuting Attorney’s office?! Bring it!”

(Oh, did I forget to mention that I work in a totally government building, and at some level, actually work for the State? LOL! And, to top it all, our entire office is either Christian or Catholic (not that I consider there a difference, but some do) and we frequently talk about biblical issues. I love my job...where I am allowed to express my beliefs. Hey, wow, that kinda sounds like the America we all want, doesn’t it?)


44 posted on 12/11/2010 10:13:16 AM PST by blu
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To: NativeNewYorker
Sounds like what we did in our building in the Rockaways. But our super decorated the tree and was there at our get-together looking for his Christmas bonuses from the tenants. Most tenants also decorated their doors and fire escapes.

What I found interesting from the article is that Lefrak City is now known as LeFrak City.

45 posted on 12/11/2010 10:43:01 AM PST by Alice in Wonderland
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To: van_erwin
“an alien symbol being forced upon a non-Christian population,”

Kinda like building a mosque near Ground Zero.

46 posted on 12/11/2010 10:48:25 AM PST by AU72
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To: van_erwin

I am an art teacher in the state of Texas. I am also a committed Christian who has been instructed that I may not introduce ANY art project that has any reference to Christmas. As all public schools in Texas, we have a mid-winter break to celebrate what used to be Christmas. How long will God tarry in His judgement of this outrageous hypocracy? How sad it makes me to be part of it for a lousy paycheck.


47 posted on 12/11/2010 1:00:26 PM PST by scottiemom ("As a Texas public school teacher, I would highly recommend private school")
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To: van_erwin
Articles like this convince me that the NY Times and indeed even the city of New York have a very bleak and dismal future in store. It will be a happy day for me when the New York Times closes its doors. Good riddance.

As for the city of New York. It becomes more irrelevant as each day passes. We need to figure out ways to make New York less important and as fast as possible. We don't want to have New York as the intellectual capital of the US. We also need to discard Los Angeles as well. Los Angeles will fall before New York. The economy there is now nearly third world. Most manufacturing has left the area and about the only thing produced in LA these days are Porno Films.

Anyway these are the two cities which have done the most damage to American civilization.
48 posted on 12/11/2010 1:16:58 PM PST by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough.)
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To: SandRat

And that’s from Basement Cat!


49 posted on 12/11/2010 1:18:39 PM PST by mewzilla (Hey, Schumer, how's that Lockerbie bomber deal investigation coming along?)
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To: Bryanw92

I so totally agree!


50 posted on 12/11/2010 1:18:52 PM PST by BunnySlippers (I love BULL MARKETS . . .)
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