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Iraqi army builds up first tank division (M1A1 Abrams)
United Press International ^ | Dec. 21, 2010

Posted on 12/27/2010 7:02:18 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki

Iraqi army builds up first tank division

Published: Dec. 21, 2010

BAGHDAD, Dec. 21 (UPI) -- The new Iraqi army has started building up its armored forces with the first batch of 140 U.S.-built M1A1 Abrams main battle tank, the same type that crushed Saddam Hussein's military in March 2003.

The 9th Armored Division, based near Baghdad, will be the spearhead of an army that will likely have a strength of more than 300,000 troops in up to 20 divisions, six of them armored.

That's a far cry from the 1 million-man army, with 5,500 mainly Soviet- built T-72 and T-62 MBTs, that Saddam once fielded when Iraq was a major Middle East power. But the new army isn't designed to conduct the ill-fated military adventures undertaken by the power-hungry Saddam, such as the 1980 invasion of Iran and the 1990 conquest of Kuwait.

Its mission is first to crush insurgent forces and restore order and stability in the oil-rich country then to protect its borders against outside aggression.

The army received the first 11 Abrams in August. That was part of a $6 billion arms package approved by the United States in December 2008 to provide 140 M1A1s and 400 Stryker combat vehicles. Both are built by General Dynamics Land Systems.

"This step is part of preparations by Iraqi forces to take over security responsibilities and build a strong army as the U.S. withdraws," said Maj. Gen. Mohammed al-Askari, the Defense Ministry spokesman.

"This delivery will help to form the military's first armored division since 2003."

The Iraqis are training crews at the Besmaya military base near Baghdad on 22 M1A1s leased from the U.S. Army, which is equipped with the more advanced M1A2.

Delivery of the rest of the 140 M1A1s is to be completed by the end of 2011, when the U.S. military is slated to wrap up its withdrawal from Iraq.

Along with the MBTs, the United States is supplying 100 support vehicles, including 35 tank transporters.

Iraq's Abrams are newly built and are equipped with infrared thermal imagers, a special air filer for the engine to deal with the sand and dust of Iraq, systems that are components of the U.S. Army's Situational Awareness standard.

But they don't have the depleted uranium armor or the Blue Force Tracker, a satellite tracking system that displays the location of all U.S. vehicles and aircraft in the Abrams' operational vicinity.

Although Iraq's military and security forces are being trained by the Americans, U.S. officials disclosed in January 2009 that the Iraqis, on American advice, planned to purchase up to 2,000 retrofitted T-72s, redesignated the T-91 and built to be interoperable with U.S. forces.

These were to be upgraded, at an estimated cost of $3 million per tank, to near-M1A1 standard with modern guns and armor as well as new fire-control systems.

That made sense since Iraqi forces were familiar with the systems as Iraqi military doctrine was built around Soviet-era weapons supplied to Saddam's regime by Moscow.

Most of the equipment used by Saddam's army was either destroyed by U.S. and British forces in the 2003 fighting or was looted in the chaos that ensued Saddam's defeat.

In 2005, Hungary, a former Soviet satellite state, agreed to donate 77 T-72s to the Iraqis. Others were expected to come from Eastern European countries such as Poland, the Czech Republic, Ukraine and Slovakia.

However, that idea seems to have fallen from favor with the Pentagon and whether it will be pursued to one extent or another remains to be seen.

The Abrams is more than a match for the largely antiquated armor fielded by Iran, Iraq's eastern neighbor and traditional enemy that has long had its eyes on conquest.

But supplying Iraq with M1A1s opens the possibility of its Abrams having to go up against other U.S.-built tanks in the armies of Saudi Arabia, which has more advanced M1A2s, and Turkey, which has older M-60A1s.

Right now, the possibility of that happening seems remote. But if, for instance, the bloodletting between Iraq's Shiite majority and Sunni minority flares once U.S. forces have quit Iraq, Sunni-dominated states like Turkey and Saudi Arabia could intervene to support their endangered co-religionists.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abrams; iraq; iraqiarmy; m1a1; mbt; postwariraq

1 posted on 12/27/2010 7:02:24 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

I just don’t understand why we killed thousands of Iraqis in order to build a new Iraqi Army.


2 posted on 12/27/2010 7:04:24 AM PST by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a credit card?)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Fully armored?


3 posted on 12/27/2010 7:05:07 AM PST by null and void (We are now in day 704 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: hoosierham
I just don’t understand why we killed thousands of Iraqis in order to build a new Iraqi Army.

Does the name "Germany" mean anything to you?

4 posted on 12/27/2010 7:05:47 AM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Isn’t this the same Iraq where Christianity is under siege?


5 posted on 12/27/2010 7:10:02 AM PST by winner3000
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To: hoosierham
The army received the first 11 Abrams in August. That was part of a $6 billion arms package approved by the United States in December 2008 to provide 140 M1A1s and 400 Stryker combat vehicles. Both are built by General Dynamics Land Systems.

Lobbyists: all your Congressmen are belong to us.

6 posted on 12/27/2010 7:10:14 AM PST by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: hoosierham
The Iraq-Iran War, which was the bloodiest trench stalemate since 1918, kept two sets of dangerous people fully occupied. Saddam was the recipient of under-the-table-intel from us, not-to-mention quite a few million artillery rounds and other supplies from us and our NATO pals. About 1.5 million casualties later, the Iraqis managed to push about 5 miles into Iran, and vice versa, and it was excellent cover for bumping off those annoyingly oil-rich Kurds by both sides!

Perhaps the Pentagon Planners intend to stage Iran-Iraq II, fighting the Iranians to the last Iraqi and hopefully, the last Iranian.

If that is the case, 140 Abrams tanks are not going to cut it.

Attention Kurds: Learn Spanish and take a look at Southern California Real Estate.

7 posted on 12/27/2010 7:16:57 AM PST by Kenny Bunk (America can survive fools in office. It cannot long survive the fools who elect them.)
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To: Lurker

I believe the U.S. rebuilt the West German military in response to the Russian creation of the East German military in direct violation of the existing agreements.(Which only proves again that agreements with bad people last only as long as those agreements are to their advantage.)


8 posted on 12/27/2010 7:20:04 AM PST by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a credit card?)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
One thing that has always amazed me about the Arab/Muslim world is that they have to import almost all their major weapons systems. You would think that being in a part of the world that has been continuously at war for several thousand years would at least give you a booming armaments industry. Sort of a a conciliation prize. But instead they have to import everything from AK-47s to SAM missiles, to fighter planes and tanks.

Pakistan builds some missiles, but still has to import the high end stuff. Iran trys to build knock off weapon systems, but they usually end up promoting laugh fests here on FR.
9 posted on 12/27/2010 7:20:58 AM PST by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Seems like a bad idea, even with the downgrades. (Unless you’re a defense contractor.)


10 posted on 12/27/2010 7:22:45 AM PST by smokingfrog (Do all the talking you want, but do what I tell you.)
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To: hoosierham
I believe the U.S. rebuilt the West German military in response to the Russian creation of the East German military in direct violation of the existing agreements.

With Iran being literally right next door I don't really have a problem with this. As long as they Iraqis are paying in cash or oil for the hardware anyway.

11 posted on 12/27/2010 7:23:52 AM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: hoosierham

Because they are pinning down the Iranians on the west.


12 posted on 12/27/2010 7:26:30 AM PST by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

It always gets people’s pulse going, when we sell weapons abroad. A few take aways:

1. If we ever want to leave Iraq, we have to make sure a neighbor, like say Iran, can’t just invade and take over. Giving the Iraqis superior tanks does this.

2. These will not have the superior armor, will not have the commander’s auxillary site, and will not have the gps system. In short, US M1A2’s are superior, and we should never have to worry about facing these tanks in battle.

3. Future Iraqi governments will have to play nice with us, if they want to be able to purchase ammunition, or spare parts...and these vehicles eat through parts and entire power packs like crazy.

I never see a problem with selling line of site weapons systems, to whoever wants to buy them. In an odd way, it keeps other nations on our leash. Something with a long, anonymous, one shot, no repair parts needed, reach - like a missile...that would be different.


13 posted on 12/27/2010 7:26:42 AM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

I have seen works of fiction that had nore fact than this article.

E.G.

The Strykers were canx. Iraq is getting used M113s instead.

The BTR4s are not mentioned and that is a larger order than the Strykers was.

The order for 140 M1A1s includes an option for another 140. Armor divs are ~300 tanks and Mech Divs ~200. 55 M1A1s have been delivered so far [not including the 22 loaners for training].

The IA plans 8-10 heavy combined arms divisions - not 6 Armor Divisions - 7 have already been identified.

There is no mention of the 1,026 M113 Family of Vehicles, the 120 155mm howitzers, 24 M109A5 SP 155mm howitzers, bridging/engineer equippment, etc that Iraq is actually getting.

The 2,000 T72 story was a con foisted on the MSM in 2008 by Defense Solutions. They originally tried to sell that idea in 2005. In 2008, needing investors to avoid bankruptcy, DS shotgunned a claim to have made the deal. It was denied by GoI, IMoD, and USF-I. Note: The PT-91 is just the Polish version of the T-72 introduced in 1991 and terminated by the Polish government as not cost effective after fewer than 500 were built. They are not worth 500,000 - let alone the 3 million DS wanted.

Only 18 of the planned 20 IA Divs are to be line divisions - 2 are personnel security divs guarding the President, PM, CoM, and CoR. Only 14 Divisions are in the IA ATT.


14 posted on 12/27/2010 7:28:21 AM PST by DJ Elliott
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To: Kenny Bunk

Aside from ignoring Hitler while he armed the Third Reich in preparation for the Nazi’s assault on Europe the most significant US foreign policy error in recent memory was allowing the Iran-Iraq war to go cold.


15 posted on 12/27/2010 7:28:26 AM PST by O6ret (for)
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To: Lurker; hoosierham
Next comes the F-16s.

It's no guarantee of a satisfactory outcome, but a successful Iraq has to have an Army and an Air Force.

16 posted on 12/27/2010 7:30:27 AM PST by Red Dog #1
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Didn’t we help another guy in Iraq arm once? His initials were S.H.

Before it’s over we’ll be fighting the enemy in tanks we gave them.


17 posted on 12/27/2010 7:30:32 AM PST by Terry Mross
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To: GonzoGOP
With zero advances in science and technology over those same 2000 years of fighting, bear skins and stone knives seem to work just fine, I guess.

Old adage, why use a hammer when the rock fits my hand so well.........

18 posted on 12/27/2010 7:31:02 AM PST by sniper63 (Did you plug the hole in the border yet daddy........)
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To: GonzoGOP

Why can’t the Muslims build a modern weapon system?

Because of totalitarian Islam.

Modern weapon systems like everything else hi-tech in the world depends on free minds and free markets.

The Muslims have neither, which means the West has military superiority.


19 posted on 12/27/2010 7:32:16 AM PST by Gomer1066
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To: sukhoi-30mki; All
The next to last paragraph of the article is really confusing, if not bizarre..anyone else notice ?

"But supplying Iraq with M1A1s opens the possiblity of its Abrams having to go up against other U.S.-built tanks in the armies of Saudi Arabia, which has more advanced M1A2s, and Turkey, which has older M-60A1s."

This makes no sense whatsoever..

20 posted on 12/27/2010 7:35:30 AM PST by ken5050 (I don't need sex.....the government screws me every day..)
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To: Red Dog #1

This article is so far out ATT as to be fantacy.
The work of someone who is clueless...

The Iraqis are going with a mix of used Mirage 2000s and new F16 Block 52s.

http://home.comcast.net/~djyae/site/?/blog/view/81/

If you are looking for facts vice fiction, try my blog.
I don’t write often but, I base my writings on the facts as they exist at the time.


21 posted on 12/27/2010 7:37:35 AM PST by DJ Elliott
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To: O6ret

Indeed!

“Divide and Conquer” the Muslims should be the USA foreign policy - It is INSANE for the USA to attempt “nation building” in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We should be ENCOURAGING wars between Muslim nations.


22 posted on 12/27/2010 7:37:54 AM PST by Gomer1066
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To: Lurker

We didn’t leave the nazis in charge in Germany. In Iraq the muslims remain in charge with sharia enshrined in their constitution. And Christians are being cleansed as we speak.

Mission accomplished?


23 posted on 12/27/2010 7:44:03 AM PST by LastNorwegian
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To: DJ Elliott

Thanks for the information.


24 posted on 12/27/2010 7:47:36 AM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Gomer1066
Modern weapon systems like everything else hi-tech in the world depends on free minds and free markets.\

Not at all. Germany under Hitler was certainly not a free country, yet had the most advanced weapons industry in the world. The Soviets ran with us for years with neither a free market or a free society. And while it many want to ignore them as copycat technology I will point out that they had the first ICBM and the Early MiGs were every bit as good, and in some cases better, than the contemporary Western fighters. And the Chinese have a booming armaments industry. Perhaps not the best in the world, but they compete well on cost. Especially for things like small arms where ultra technology isn't required. An AK-47 will kill you just as dead as an XM-8. And costs a heck of a lot less.

No the lack of a weapons industry in the Middle East is due to short term thinking. And unfortunately dictators are just a capable of long term thinking as are free men. The Japanese militarists built up the entire Japanese economy from an agrarian feudal society in order to ensure that they would be independent from foreign suppliers. They may have bought the first round of ships and guns. But the second generation was made at home.

The US military always tried to buy US made weapons, even at the turn of the century when our stuff wasn't as good or as cheap as what we could have bought from the Brits or the Germans. The Chinese built their own weapons industry rather than just buy from the Russians. This kind of thinking accepts short term disadvantage, in exchange for building an industrial base that can provide a long term foundation for an independent military. In the Middle East they only build their own when they have no other choice. Otherwise they treat their military equipment like just another expensive bauble. As one Egyptian general said after the 1967 war they practiced how to march in the victory parade instead of practicing how to win the victory.
25 posted on 12/27/2010 7:49:35 AM PST by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

It would be a shame if oine day we had to fight these tanks, and it is well within the realm of possibility.

We have given weapons to others before only to have them used against us.


26 posted on 12/27/2010 7:49:52 AM PST by Venturer
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To: Venturer

5 countries [US/RS/CH/UK/FR] make 70 percent of the words military weapons. 85 percent of the aircraft. Exports are how they support the industry for their military force.

The exports are ussually less capable than used domestically. E.G. the lack of DU armor on export M1A1s is the equivalent of 2 inches less of steel armor.

And certain systems are not exported. Everything we are SELLING to Iraq is 1970/1980s tech. What we are donating is 1960s/1970s equipment that we are eliminating from our inventory.


27 posted on 12/27/2010 7:58:35 AM PST by DJ Elliott
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To: GonzoGOP

I beleive most can make their own ammo.


28 posted on 12/27/2010 8:05:06 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Who will maintain them?

Not the Iraqi’s.

The reason they fly russian helicopters is that they cannot handle the maintenance load of the Black Hawks, 47’s and 53’s.

Someone is inline for a massive advisor/tech support contract.


29 posted on 12/27/2010 8:06:03 AM PST by lack-of-trust
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To: hoosierham

Our tax dollars at work.

Once the US leaves these weapons will be used to kill Christians, Sunnis and Kurds, not Iranians.

Why the USA politicians wasted $3 to $4 trillion dollars of taxpayer money and suffered 4,500 killed and 33,000 wounded just to build another disfunctional militant muslim terrorist state is a question for the ages.

They will not be our friends.

No matter how much we do for them and how much we spend building their army they will always remember we invaded their country and killed their fathers, sons and husbands.


30 posted on 12/27/2010 8:07:18 AM PST by Iron Munro (Claire Wolfe: Leave the government even if you can’t leave the country.)
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To: Lurker
.

"Germany" ... "Nazis" ... "Auschwitz" ... "Rippentroph" ...

Sadam's Two Sons ... "Mustard Gas" ... "Nerve Gas" ... "Torture" ... "Wood Chippers" ... "USS Stark" ... "9/11" ... "Palestian Suicide Bomber Financial Bonuses" ...

.
31 posted on 12/27/2010 8:12:59 AM PST by Patton@Bastogne
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To: DJ Elliott
.

Thanks ... You obviously know your stuff ...

.
32 posted on 12/27/2010 8:17:26 AM PST by Patton@Bastogne
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To: hoosierham

Yeah, I don’t understand why we killed all those Germans and Japanese in order to build a new Army for each of them.

Rolls eyes.


33 posted on 12/27/2010 8:21:37 AM PST by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Soon to be turned loose on Iraqi Christians....


34 posted on 12/27/2010 8:26:15 AM PST by onedoug
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To: hoosierham

Osama is gonna love having all those nice tanks!


35 posted on 12/27/2010 8:40:01 AM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

When moontarder(Muqtada al-Sadr) takes over he will really like those things.


36 posted on 12/27/2010 8:43:27 AM PST by org.whodat
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To: GonzoGOP

UN Arab Development Report( it’s on line, pdf, somewhere)

Anyway, there are about 600 million ‘Arabs’, in about 20 countries, from the Alantic to Iraq. 1-2 dollars per day per person. Half or more illiterate. Half of the countries reporting no social statistics. Total GDP for all, less then Finland, or Norway. Not one world class manufactured product or service or university.

Supposedly there is no word for ‘work’ in Arabic. Arab culture looks down on workmen, skilled trades, technicians. I knew a American tec that installed million dollar equipment in plants in the ME. The owners would never come to the floor to inspect thier capital purchase, unlike a US or EU buisness owner who would crowd around the new, expensive, productive tool.


37 posted on 12/27/2010 9:02:40 AM PST by Leisler (They always lie, and have for so much and for so long, that they no longer know what about.)
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To: GonzoGOP

I stand corrected.


38 posted on 12/27/2010 9:18:24 AM PST by Gomer1066
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Another great idea! /sarc

The Iraqi logistics system is still in it's infancy. They cannot maintain their HMMWV's without US assistance. These tanks will end up in Iranian hands, either by gift, or as war trophies, and with Maliki's ties to Tehran, my money is on the gifts.

39 posted on 12/27/2010 10:04:15 AM PST by Sarajevo (You're jealous because the voices only talk to me.)
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To: lack-of-trust

The Iraqis fly US, French, and Russian helos.
And the only reason they have Russian Mi-17s is because the US pushed them to buy them.

The reason MNSTC-I pushed the Iraqis to buy Mi-17s is because Iraq has 900 trained Mi-17 pilots/flight engineers.
[My source for that detail is Major Tony Sidoti - former MNSTC-I CAFTT. He also said they had to talk them out of buying Blackhawks. IMoD has an adversion to “Russian Junk”.]

Iraqi MoI is currently looking at buying Blackhawks.


40 posted on 12/27/2010 5:41:46 PM PST by DJ Elliott
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