Posted on 12/29/2010 12:55:58 PM PST by Free ThinkerNY
A University Park man who killed a neighbor whose dog urinated on his lawn was sentenced today to four years probation.
"This is not justice," said Gail Williams, the slain man's aunt.
Charles Clements, 69, a great-grandfather, former Marine and retired truck driver who took great pride in his lawn's appearance, could have been sentenced to as much as 20 years.
In declining to send Clements to jail, Will County Judge Daniel Rozak noted the episode was Clements' first contact with the legal system in his 69 years.
He also said the slaying wasn't about a dog urinating on a lawn, but "about your reaction ... to being yelled at, pushed and punched in the face by a 23-year-old man" The Will County state's attorney's office, which had asked for jail time, indicated it would not appeal the sentence. "He (Rozak) is an excellent judge and we respect his decision," prosecutors said in a statement.
Clements had apologized for his actions at a sentencing hearing that was interrupted last week when the slain man's mother began to hyperventilate in court.
A Will County jury convicted Clements of second-degree murder in October.
(Excerpt) Read more at chicagobreakingnews.com ...
If you mess with a young man, he may hurt you.
If you mess with a middle age man, he may really f*** you up.
If you mess with an old man, he may kill you.
One wonders why you would punch a guy that you know has a gun in his pocket?
The old guy was yelled at, then showed that he had a gun. The youngster, rather than being calmed down on the grounds that it isn’t a good idea to show up to a gunfight without a gun became more agressive and punched and pushed the old guy. He had the option of behaving, but chose to initiate a fight which he ought to have known would be a gun fight.
The punk was standing still, which is better than still hitting him, but as he was not going away, the fight was not necessarily over—should the old guy have waited to let the punk get in a few more licks or try to take his gun before using the equalizer?
Sounds like self-defense or very close to self-defense to me.
/johnny
It was not murder.........
Corollary to the famous Texas courtroom defense “He needed killin.’”
It’s quite possible he’ll do something else whacked out during the probation then he will go to jail.
If it was self-defense, the defendant would have been acquitted. He wasn’t. He was CONVICTED of second degree murder.Since the judge didn’t set aside the jury’s verdict, he agreed there was legally sufficient evidence to sustain the murder conviction. That being the case, four years’ robation is a joke.
And deadly physical force is only justified when deadly physical force is being used against the actor. A punch to the face does not constitute deadly physical force in most, if not all, states.
“He also said the slaying wasn’t about a dog urinating on a lawn, but “about your reaction ... to being yelled at, pushed and punched in the face by a 23-year-old man” “
This is the first time I heard of this, the whole episode comes into focus much clearer now.
If I were this guy the 23 year old would never have gotten close enough to punch me in the face before he had a hole in him
He was warned, at least twice, and shown the defensive capability that would be used.
Stupid dead 23 year old is all I see here.
Could you point to the source for that?
>>If you mess with a young man, he may hurt you.
If you mess with a middle age man, he may really f*** you up.
If you mess with an old man, he may kill you.<<
As a 57 year old man, I strongly concur. As we get older, we see life differently. And Jesus did tell them to buy a sword.
You call confronting someone breaking the law on your property an 'initial aggressor'?
What color is the sky in your universe?
/johnny
In some (wise) jurisdictions, mayhem can be defended against with lethal force.
One thing that keeps some people from trying to run all over others- you never know who you are messing with. When the 23 year old made the decision to physically assault a 69 year old man, he had to be prepared for the consequences of that man defending himself.
If the old Guy had smacked the punk upside the head with a cane, and the jerk had died as a result would there be all of this “outrage”?
Did the old man kill the dog too?
Public service. Time served. Well done, sir.
a 69 year old being punched in the face by a 23 year old punk is in mortal danger. Carrying a fire arm is escalation? shows me where you are coming from. the judge got it right
The older guy showed the kid he had two weapons: His own strength and a GUN. He made it pretty clear that he would probably fall back on the latter if the kid chose to escalate. He did, and he did.
Never bring a fist to a gunfight.
From what little the article gave, it seems like the dog owner verbally abused and then physically attacked him. Looks like self defense to me.
Agrred. No loss to society there.
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