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Pakistan makes two nuclear weapons available to Saudi Arabia
Debka file ^ | December 30, 2010

Posted on 12/30/2010 11:40:55 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki

Pakistan makes two nuclear weapons available to Saudi Arabia

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report December 30, 2010, 9:41 AM (GMT+02:00)

With an eye on the nuclear arms race led by its neighbor Iran, Saudi Arabia has arranged to have available for its use two Pakistani nuclear bombs or guided missile warheads, debkafile's military and intelligence sources reveal. They are most probably held in Pakistan's nuclear air base at Kamra in the northern district of Attock. Pakistan has already sent the desert kingdom its latest version of the Ghauri-II missile after extending its range to 2,300 kilometers. Those missiles are tucked away in silos built in the underground city of Al-Sulaiyil, south of the capital Riyadh.

At least two giant Saudi transport planes sporting civilian colors and no insignia are parked permanently at Pakistan's Kamra base with air crews on standby. They will fly the nuclear weapons home upon receipt of a double coded signal from King Abdullah and the Director of General Intelligence Prince Muqrin bin Abdel Aziz. A single signal would not be enough.

Our military sources have found only sketchy information about the procedures for transferring the weapons from Pakistani storage to the air transports. It is not clear whether Riyadh must inform Pakistan's army chiefs that it is ready to take possession of its nuclear property, or whether a series of preset codes will provide access to the air base's nuclear stores. The only detail known to our Gulf sources is that the Saudi bombs are lodged in separate heavily-guarded stores apart from the rest of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal.

This secret was partially blown by Riyadh itself. In recent weeks, Saudi officials close to their intelligence establishment have been going around security forums in the West and dropping word that the kingdom no longer needs to build its own nuclear arsenal because it has acquired a source of readymade arms to be available on demand. This broad hint was clearly put about under guidelines from the highest levels of the monarchy.

Partial nuclear transparency was approved by Riyadh as part of a campaign to impress on the outside world that Saudi Arabia was in control of its affairs: The succession struggle had been brought under control; the Saudi regime had set its feet on a clearly defined political and military path; and the hawks of the royal house had gained the hand and were now setting the pace.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Israel; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: debka; iran; israel; nuclear; pakistan; saudiarabia; waronterror

1 posted on 12/30/2010 11:41:00 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

We can only wish that they will be stored separately: One in Mecca, one in Medina.


2 posted on 12/30/2010 11:41:51 AM PST by DCBryan1 (FORGET the lawyers...first kill the "journalists". (Die Ritter der Kokosnuss))
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To: sukhoi-30mki
At least two giant Saudi transport planes sporting civilian colors and no insignia are parked permanently at Pakistan's Kamra base with air crews on standby. They will fly the nuclear weapons home upon receipt of a double coded signal from King Abdullah and the Director of General Intelligence Prince Muqrin bin Abdel Aziz. A single signal would not be enough.

This sounds like a lode of debka. I can't think of a worse system. It is provocative without being protective. The slow unarmed transports would have to fly within intercept range of Iran's air force to deliver the bombs. If the planes took off it would be an immediate provocation to Iran. Yet they would be able to intercept and destroy the missiles, or launch their own strike, before they could arrive in Saudi Arabia and be deployed.
3 posted on 12/30/2010 11:54:08 AM PST by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: GonzoGOP
I can't think of a worse system. It is provocative without being protective.

Are the Arab states known for their sophistication?

4 posted on 12/30/2010 11:57:52 AM PST by NativeNewYorker (Freepin' Jew Boy)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

When did India and Pakistan get the A-bomb and missiles capable carrying one? Can we blame Bush for snoozing and allowing this?


5 posted on 12/30/2010 11:58:52 AM PST by RicocheT
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To: NativeNewYorker
Are the Arab states known for their sophistication?

The Saudis, unlike Syria, Iran and Iraq and pre Sadat Egypt, usually are. They tend to be very careful on just how far they can push things, and usually try to get other people to do the wet work for them. Against Israel they used Egypt. Against Iran they used Iraq. Against Iraq they used the US. Against the US they used Al Quida. But never got their own hands dirty, never provoked any situation that would threaten them unless they knew someone bigger was backing their actions.

The Saudi's plans tend to be ruthless, Machiavellian and above all cowardly. If they were going to go Nuclear they wouldn't let anyone know where the bombs were. And they wouldn't let someone else have the ability to change their minds about letting them use the bombs. As it stands when the emergency comes Pakistan could just as easily say no and not deliver the bombs. Considering the fact that anti-monarcy fanatics like Al Quida hold so much power in Pakistan that is a very real risk. And the Saudis don't take risks.
6 posted on 12/30/2010 12:06:43 PM PST by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: GonzoGOP

The planes could,assuming it's true ( it is Debka, after all), fly way south of Iran across the Arabian Sea over Yemen and be out of reach for Iran................

7 posted on 12/30/2010 12:08:32 PM PST by Red Badger (Whenever these vermin call you an 'idiot', you can be sure that you are doing to something right.)
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To: RicocheT
When did India and Pakistan get the A-bomb and missiles capable carrying one?

The atomic bomb (1945) and liquid fueled ballistic missile (1944) are not exactly state of the art technology. If you have the money and are willing to take the international condemnation the actual construction is no big deal. They built their own. India has the better bomb designs. Pakistan has a more primitive bomb, but has better missiles to deliver them. North Korea and Iran are both using bomb designs provided by the Pakistanis.
8 posted on 12/30/2010 12:11:59 PM PST by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: Red Badger
The planes could,assuming it's true ( it is Debka, after all), fly way south of Iran across the Arabian Sea.

Wrong. The entire Pakistani coast line is within range of Iran's F-14s. The Tomcats have an intercept range of 926km (500nm). Sacrifice some weapons load (your killing unarmed transports after all) for extra tanks and you can almost double that. So they would have to fly quite a long distance within range of Iran's fighters in order to get to clear air. Unless they fly over India, and there is no way in heck India is going to let a bunch of nuke toting Pakistani aircraft fly anyplace near their territory.

Now making the intercept without AWACS won't be easy. But it is a risk. And as a general principle the Saudis doesn't take risks when they don't have to.
9 posted on 12/30/2010 12:25:33 PM PST by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
I'm waiting for a single Debka report that turned out to be true.


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

10 posted on 12/30/2010 12:31:43 PM PST by The Comedian (Government: Saving people from freedom since time immemorial.)
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To: Quix; Whenifhow; houeto; null and void; Squantos; xrmusn; bronxville; Screaming_Gerbil; ...
It's-only-Debka-so-don't-panic-since-this-is-probably-BS ping.

"Nuclear Terror" ping.

Ping list covering atomic/nuclear/thermonuclear terrifying events and discussions.

FReepmail me if vou want on or off The Comedian's "Nuclear Terror" ping list...


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

11 posted on 12/30/2010 12:36:57 PM PST by The Comedian (Government: Saving people from freedom since time immemorial.)
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To: GonzoGOP
The Saudis appear to be sophisticated diplomatically, not militarily.
12 posted on 12/30/2010 12:43:36 PM PST by NativeNewYorker (Freepin' Jew Boy)
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To: NativeNewYorker
The Saudis appear to be sophisticated diplomatically, not militarily.

To the extent that hiring mercenaries is a diplomatic rather than a military action I agree. But remember they did get F-15 fighters. And unlike most of the other Arab/Persian countries they put a lot of effort into training their pilots and ground crews.

I'm not saying they wouldn't buy nukes. I'm just saying that if they bought them they would take delivery. And their diplomatic sophistication would make darn sure nobody knew about it until the weapons were received, deployed and ready to go.
13 posted on 12/30/2010 12:59:12 PM PST by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: Alas Babylon!; American_Centurion; An.American.Expatriate; ASA.Ranger; ASA Vet; Ax; Azeem; ...

MI Ping


14 posted on 12/30/2010 1:00:38 PM PST by ASA Vet (Natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. De Vattel)
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To: The Comedian
It's-only-Debka-so-don't-panic-since-this-is-probably-BS ping.

I don't know which made me laugh more. The name of the ping list, or the fact that such a ping list actually exists.

As for the picture. I can just seek the guy in the boat saying "ya know those clouds mean screw the catch limits."
15 posted on 12/30/2010 1:02:35 PM PST by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: RicocheT

You gotta be kidding both countries have had the bomb for a long time a hell of a long time before Bush became POTUS.


16 posted on 12/30/2010 1:32:12 PM PST by Americanexpat (Everytime I see that guy's face ot)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Hmmmm, Debka.

The Pakistanis have enough HEU fissionable fuel for 60+ bombs but have never lit one off. Why would the Saudis pay for an untested nuke?

On the other hand, Pakistan owes Saudi Arabia a lot of money and SA has cosigned on a lot of loans with the WMF.

If anything, the Saudis are camel trading for technology they don't want to have to develop themselves.

SA has had a strong interest in nukes for years as a hedge against Iran, so Debka may be at least plausible here

17 posted on 12/30/2010 1:49:58 PM PST by gandalftb (OK State, 10-2, Go #14 Cowboys! Valero Alamo Bowl 12/29 Beat AZ!)
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To: RicocheT

Pakistan’s first nuclear test was in 1998.

If you choose to “blame” someone, your guy is Clinton.

India’s first test was in 1974, and Ford was president.


18 posted on 12/30/2010 1:51:05 PM PST by Beckwith (A "natural born citizen" -- two American citizen parents and born in the USA.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Debka, what a relief, for a second I thought it was true.

If it was true, there’s your counterweight to nuclear Iran.


19 posted on 12/30/2010 1:54:45 PM PST by NeoCaveman (Touch my tagline and I'll have you arrested)
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To: NativeNewYorker
-----Are the Arab states known for their sophistication? ----

Well, yes......

They built the tallest building in the world

20 posted on 12/30/2010 2:02:53 PM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. D.E. +12 .....( History is a process, not an event ))
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To: sukhoi-30mki
And they might have something to put them on...

China Sold Nuclear Missiles to Saudi Arabia, Ex-CIA Officer Claims

I remember reading a few years ago about Saudi building a secret missile base, that was probably from Debka too though...

21 posted on 12/30/2010 2:17:14 PM PST by Dan Cooper
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To: bert
They built the tallest VACANT building in the world.

Fixed.

22 posted on 12/30/2010 3:10:56 PM PST by NativeNewYorker (Freepin' Jew Boy)
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To: The Comedian

I guess I have a bit of a higher rating for them . . . realizing they are likely a right arm of major disinfo campaigns.


23 posted on 12/30/2010 3:24:47 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

A Saudi minister remarked a couple of months ago, when asked about Iran and nukes and the region, that the Saudis would ensure their own defense by procuring an off the shelf solution.

Cryptic, not a confirmation, but supportive of this scenario that has been bandied about for a while.

Saudis have financed and their bigwigs have been honored guests at major events of Pak’s nuke program.


24 posted on 12/30/2010 3:41:17 PM PST by swarthyguy (KIDS! Deficit, Debt,Taxes! Pfft Lookit the bright side of our legacy -America is almost SmokFrei!)
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To: AdmSmith; Arthur Wildfire! March; Berosus; bigheadfred; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; Delacon; ...

DEBKA. Thanks sukhoi-30mki.


25 posted on 12/30/2010 4:11:13 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: NativeNewYorker

If you build it, they will come.

The UAE is ascendant while some American states are descendant


26 posted on 12/30/2010 4:50:29 PM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. D.E. +12 .....( History is a process, not an event ))
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To: RicocheT

Blame Clinton for giving the missiles to the Chinese and the Chinese for giving the missiles and the nukes to the Paks.


27 posted on 12/30/2010 4:55:03 PM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine .. now it is your turn..)
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To: GonzoGOP

They built their own

Wrong. The Chinese supplied training and the knowledge to the Paks. China’s hedge against the hated Indians.


28 posted on 12/30/2010 4:58:51 PM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine .. now it is your turn..)
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To: The Comedian

Hi!
I’ve followed them for decades daily and most every thing has either been true or middle east true (read between the lines). Certainly better than any other middle eastern news source. Unless one is a fan of MEIRE


29 posted on 12/30/2010 5:03:30 PM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine .. now it is your turn..)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

It is widely believed that the Saudis funded the Pakis’ nuke program with this type of arrangement as the pay back.


30 posted on 12/30/2010 5:04:53 PM PST by dervish (I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself)
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To: GonzoGOP

It is not unthinkable that the two aircraft are simply props to a propaganda tale or intelligence misdirection.


31 posted on 12/30/2010 5:41:32 PM PST by ThanhPhero (Khach hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: NativeNewYorker

I don’t think they finished building the tallest building in the world.


32 posted on 12/30/2010 5:46:24 PM PST by ThanhPhero (Khach hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: Quix
I guess I have a bit of a higher rating for them . . . realizing they are likely a right arm of major disinfo campaigns.

Sheesh, good point!


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

33 posted on 12/30/2010 5:57:26 PM PST by The Comedian (Government: Saving people from freedom since time immemorial.)
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To: bert

I don’t think that’s quite accurate.

They paid rather well a lot of foreigners to lead the construction and many to work on the construction.

Citizens IIRC tend to be rather lazy.


34 posted on 12/30/2010 6:41:21 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: The Comedian

Thanks for your kind reply.

REmember it was the flakiest groups who first and most accurately identified who Hitler was, what he would become and what he would do.


35 posted on 12/30/2010 6:42:50 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix
Remember it was the flakiest groups who first and most accurately identified who Hitler was, what he would become and what he would do.

Oh, I know.

The sensitive pick up both the beauty and the horror before anyone else, and to a greater degree than anyone else.

And nobody of consequence listens.

Hurray, I am nobody of consequence...


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

36 posted on 12/30/2010 7:18:36 PM PST by The Comedian (Government: Saving people from freedom since time immemorial.)
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To: The Comedian

You listen way above average.

LUB


37 posted on 12/30/2010 7:24:44 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: gandalftb; NeoCaveman

The Saudi-Pakistan nuclear connection has been talked about for decades, not years. Debka may be exxagerating as usual, but it’s not without all hot air. The ‘Islamic bomb’ initiative started off in the 70s with Saudi and Libyan funding.

Unless you think Pakistan’s 98 tests were all duds, the Saudis are investing in proven solutions, like they always do.


38 posted on 12/30/2010 7:35:49 PM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: GonzoGOP

The ‘al-Qaeda will take over’ line has been used by the Pakistanis effectively. Even GWB talked about it in Decision Points. The Pakistani nuclear programme is very secure as the Pakistani army, is a very professional unit. And Pakistani-Saudi strategic cooperation stretches back decades.

Assuming that the Debka story is credible, your point about Iran dispatching F-14s is a bit far fetched even if we are talking about all out war. For one, there are virtually hundreds of civilian aircraft flying from the Arabian Sea across to the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). There’s little chance the Iranians or most nations have the assets to single out Saudi civilian aircraft.


39 posted on 12/30/2010 7:41:47 PM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: gandalftb
The Pakistanis have enough HEU fissionable fuel for 60+ bombs but have never lit one off.

You may want to go research that........

40 posted on 12/30/2010 8:41:28 PM PST by doorgunner69
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To: Quix

The question is, the only pertinent question is....is it there or not.?

It speaks for its self.


41 posted on 12/31/2010 4:16:49 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. D.E. +12 .....( History is a process, not an event ))
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To: bert

Maybe.

Maybe not.

I think that the factors that resulted in it being there . . . and the reasons it is there . . . are worth considering.

The globalists decided during Nixon’s era to give massive amounts of money to the Arabs . . . by raising oil prices and playing games with such.

Add pride.

I’m not a fan of ostentacious arrogance whether it’s American, Arab or Chinese.

On one level, I love architecture and enjoy such tall buildings as engineering and construction feats.

On another level, they remind me of the Tower of Babel . . . an affront to God.

Freudians could consider them to be large phalluses shoved in God’s eye. Maybe God sees them similarly.

Personally, I expect them all to fall in the not distant future. Scripture talks of a huge quake scheduled in the END TIMES era.

Things are NOT going to go on as they ‘always’ have. Dramatic changes are coming.

And human pride and the expressions of that pride will be humiliated in a list of ways.

GOD ALONE IS WORTHY.

I look at that tower . . . it would be fun to tour it and look out from it’s peak. It is quite an achievement.

On the other hand, we have airplane views and satellite views that cover more territory.

I don’t necessarily consider it an Arabic achievement. The globalist oligarchy gave them their money. Western technology, organizational skills etc. gave them the technology to build the thing and then built it for them, essentially.

And, I”m a bit curious . . . let’s say 2-3 tribes there take up 90% of the tower. And then become essentially at war with one another. How would that work out?

It’s a grand piece of sculpture.

It’s a huge phallic symbol.

It’s grand architecture.

So far, it’s a mostly empty waste.

It’s arrogance gone to seed.

It’s fascinating and beautiful rising out of the desert by the sea.

. . .


42 posted on 12/31/2010 4:42:00 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

So, in the final analysis you abandon reason and flee to faith


43 posted on 12/31/2010 5:01:27 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. D.E. +12 .....( History is a process, not an event ))
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To: bert

Not at all.

I think that’s your rather strong biases speaking.

I have a very reasonable faith built well on very solid foundations of evidence, facts.

I can appreciate the building.

I just realize it’s not a simple cut and dried glorification of all things Arabic.


44 posted on 12/31/2010 8:42:22 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
They were all duds because the yield was far below a sustained fission detonation. Of the 7 claimed detonations, the 2 that detonated together had less than a 12 kt yield combined, 3 more of them were claimed but had no seismic yield at all, one other had a 4 kiloton yield that was likely a result of the conventional charging explosives, and the seventh claimed was later admitted to not have detonated at all.

There were trace amounts of weapons grade plutonium found, but far below a sustained chain reaction. No trace amounts of "reflectors" were ever detected indicating primitive, at best, weapons.

Seismographs don't lie and all the yields were less than what could have been achieved by conventional explosives.

If the Paks want serious money they need to light off something serious, 20 kt or more. More than likely they are selling excess plutonium, not a working weapon.

45 posted on 12/31/2010 8:51:13 AM PST by gandalftb (OK State, 10-2, Go #14 Cowboys! Valero Alamo Bowl 12/29 Beat AZ!)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Forgot to mention, the detonations were of plutonium, not uranium. Pakistan has/had no way to make plutonium. They had to have bought it, likely from the Chinese.

In any case, Pakistan has never tested any uranium based weapons, the only ones they could have for sale now.

46 posted on 12/31/2010 8:55:42 AM PST by gandalftb (OK State, 10-2, Go #14 Cowboys! Valero Alamo Bowl 12/29 Beat AZ!)
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To: doorgunner69
I stand by my point, the 1998 tests were of plutonium weapons, not uranium.

The 60+ estimate is conservative, based on the known production of the P-1 centrifuges and the 20 years of production. The number has been set at the high 80's.

Bottom line, they have never tested HEU and have no known delivery platform because of the excessive weight of their primitive weapons.

47 posted on 12/31/2010 8:59:35 AM PST by gandalftb (OK State, 10-2, Go #14 Cowboys! Valero Alamo Bowl 12/29 Beat AZ!)
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To: gandalftb

I remember the claims and counter claims over the yields and materials used by the Pakistanis. The plutonium-trace analysis had been disputed by US agencies themselves and I don’t think the Pakistanis would have been dumb enough to burn off their stockpiles in a few hours.

Regarding seismic readings, even that has been disputed.I’ve heard the same about the Indian and North Korean tests and Chinese tests earlier. And it’s not like seismologists are in agreement on these.


48 posted on 12/31/2010 7:44:03 PM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Agreed, the results were very hazy and disputed. Bottom line, Pakistan shouldn’t have any enriched Plutonium unless they bought it somewhere. With all the HEU they should have by now, why not test a uranium based bomb?


49 posted on 12/31/2010 8:42:38 PM PST by gandalftb (OK State, 10-2, Go #14 Cowboys! Valero Alamo Bowl 12/29 Beat AZ!)
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To: gandalftb

The findings of the specialists at Los Alamos who claimed to have detected traces of plutonium during the Pakistan tests were disputed by other agencies who claimed that the air samples had been ‘contaminated’. So there’s little evidence to conclusively prove or disprove either claim (The Pakistanis claim they tested HEU based weapons).


50 posted on 12/31/2010 11:15:55 PM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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