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Looting Social Security
The Nation ^ | 3/2/09 | William Greider

Posted on 01/01/2011 8:02:36 AM PST by EBH

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To: sodpoodle

You ignore all of the borrowing and spending done on your watch.


51 posted on 01/01/2011 12:46:22 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: dragnet2
You keep talking about "the government" as though the people who elected it and then benefited from all of the borrowing and spending it undertook are somehow not responsible for the insolvency thus created. If the American public is not responsible for the actions of the American government elected on their watch then how can future generations of Americans be held even more responsible for the profligacy of this previous government?
52 posted on 01/01/2011 12:52:11 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: EBH
Some of the posts have just been stunning.

Like waking up from a long, happy slumber to find that you only dreamed of the riches you thought you had?

53 posted on 01/01/2011 12:59:24 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: nascarnation
Actually Social Security, while having definite future financial problems, is in great shape compared to Medicare.

Yeah, and the Titanic was hardly damaged compared to the U.S.S. Arizona.

54 posted on 01/01/2011 1:02:30 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: rogue yam

who’s “WE” kimosabe?


55 posted on 01/01/2011 1:02:36 PM PST by Arizona Carolyn
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To: Arizona Carolyn

Please post something that is not both trivial and cliche.


56 posted on 01/01/2011 1:08:59 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: rogue yam

You made a very broad and quite dumb statenment, speak for yourself as you don’t know squat about the rest of us


57 posted on 01/01/2011 1:15:09 PM PST by Arizona Carolyn
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To: EBH
The Gipper's great legislative victory in 1981--enacting massive tax cuts for corporations and upper-income ranks--launched the era of swollen federal budget deficits.

Not worth reading beyond this crap.

58 posted on 01/01/2011 1:15:30 PM PST by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: rogue yam

Hey grumpy - I worked three jobs to put my kids through school. No child support, no free lunch, no food stamps, no welfare and no regrets.

Self respect is more better than spit!


59 posted on 01/01/2011 1:43:39 PM PST by sodpoodle (Despair; man's surrender. Laughter; God 's redemption.)
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To: rogue yam
You keep talking about "the government" as though the people who elected it and then benefited from all of the borrowing and spending

I have not benefited for *any* government spending which I have not already paid for in taxes. What benefit, are you referring to and please be specific.

60 posted on 01/01/2011 1:49:26 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit.)
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To: BenKenobi

Obviously I am not making mayself clear. This problem was recognized THIRTY YEARS AGO.... the SS Taxes were raised to “correct” the problem. HELLO.....when the government claims to solve a problem (like health care) guess what it gets worse.

Don’t claim this BB’er problem is a shock to the system...it was supposed to be prevented. POLITICIANS LIE AND STEAL.
We’ll see if the TPM has made a real difference. The rubber is getting ready to meet the road.


61 posted on 01/01/2011 2:18:18 PM PST by Marty62 (Marty 60)
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To: griswold3
The SS trust was targeted by LBJ to fund the ‘Great Society’ in other words, buy votes.

Haven't SS collections simply gone into the general fund since 1968, in order to fund his welfare-state and Viet Nam without presenting a giant deficit? Johnson's last hurrah, if I'm not mistaken. If there's nothing there but IOUs backed by nothing, what's to loot? I'll need to learn a lot more about Social Security if I'm to even believe Greider's premise, let alone his conclusion.

62 posted on 01/01/2011 2:51:04 PM PST by Seven plus One
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To: rogue yam
You keep talking about "the government" as though the people who elected it and then benefited from all of the borrowing and spending

I have not benefited for *any* government spending which I have not already paid for in taxes. What benefit, are you referring to? Please be specific.

63 posted on 01/01/2011 3:04:19 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit.)
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To: Arizona Carolyn

If you had something intelligent to say in response to my “dumb” post you would have said it by now.


64 posted on 01/01/2011 5:44:13 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: sodpoodle

I thought we were talking about how to address the looming insolvency of Social Security.

I had no idea that what we were really discussing is how tough life has been for you.

You have my sympathy.

But still, Social Security will need to be addressed somehow.


65 posted on 01/01/2011 5:49:44 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: dragnet2

The federal government has racked up a huge amount of debt over the last thirty years. Therefore the government services provided over this time period were not paid for by the taxes collected during the same period. Spending exceeded revenues. This is a matter of simple logic. If your taxes paid for the government you enjoyed then why did the debt increase?


66 posted on 01/01/2011 5:58:56 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

You can’t let any of that money go to the people who actually paid it in.

It must all go to black people. To do otherwise would be racist.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Just one thing, Boss. SOME of the money was PAID IN by black people. How ya gonna handle that?


67 posted on 01/01/2011 8:09:41 PM PST by RipSawyer
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To: RipSawyer
SOME of the money was PAID IN by black people. How ya gonna handle that?

They don't deserve any of it either, Skippy.

Only the Section 8 class should be allowed to collect government checks. And only if they have illegitimate children.

No straight people either.

68 posted on 01/01/2011 8:12:09 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (DEFCON I ALERT: The federal cancer has metastasized. All personnel report to their battle stations.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

You should have said to begin with that all the money must go to black people but NOT THOSE BLACK PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY PAID IN. As long as you aren’t giving any money back to those who actually paid in then I guess that’s fair enough.

All benefits must definitely go to those who have never hit a lick at a snake, it’s the American way. Since I actually paid into SS and Medicare for more than forty years I should refund everything I have received already and stop any further benefits from coming to me. But then I’m straight so I shouldn’t get any thing anyway. Only gay black people who have never paid a dime into the system should collect benefits. By Jove, I think I’ve got it!


69 posted on 01/01/2011 8:30:11 PM PST by RipSawyer
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To: RipSawyer
Oh, and "immigrants."

Don't forget the "immigrants."

Legal immigrants need not apply, of course.

70 posted on 01/01/2011 8:51:21 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (DEFCON I ALERT: The federal cancer has metastasized. All personnel report to their battle stations.)
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To: rogue yam
I have not benefited for *any* government spending which I have not already paid for in taxes. What benefits, are you referring to and please be specific.
71 posted on 01/01/2011 8:57:39 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit.)
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To: rogue yam
You keep talking about "the government" as though the people who elected it and then benefited from all of the borrowing and spending

Specifically what government benefits did I receive?

72 posted on 01/01/2011 9:00:11 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit.)
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To: dragnet2

You are coming across like a crazy fool.

Everyone reading this thread can name government services that have benefited you.

I will name exactly one category just to make it obvious how stupid and worthless your line of argument is.

The Department of Defense.

What say you now, genius?


73 posted on 01/01/2011 9:12:24 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: rogue yam
You then benefited from all of the borrowing and spending

Specifically what government benefits did I receive?

The Department of Defense.

Your suggesting the government looted Social Security to pay for military expenditures and defense of this country? Is this what your saying?

74 posted on 01/01/2011 9:32:38 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit.)
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To: rogue yam
You then benefited from all of the borrowing and spending

Specifically what government benefits did I receive, (Which required the government to loot Social Security?)

The Department of Defense.

One other question slick. Would all that defense spending and borrowing include the defense of our borders and our sovereignty? Or does that count?

75 posted on 01/01/2011 9:45:11 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit.)
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To: EBH

They shouldn’t loot the Social Security program, they should just shut it down over a short period of time, maybe something like three years. During that short phase out period, Social Security recipients who are able to demonstrate desperate need should continue to receive some portion of benefits. In order to prevent fraud and abuse, case workers should be assigned to needy recipients to verify need. In three years, the nightmare will be over.


76 posted on 01/01/2011 9:53:04 PM PST by Walts Ice Pick
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To: sodpoodle

Just what needs to be understood. I have been bellyaching about this even though a SS recipient.I know of a case where the person had a small annuity from a company at retirement years ago. The return has been paying as much as SS. It is the time value of ‘money’ that seems to be a big difference through even times of ups and downs except when government people have their hands on the investment. In the latter case for reasons you point out and etc. your money becomes someonelse’s grab bag. Get SS back to what it was sold as i.e.nobody,man, woman, or child, gets to take out if they have not put in.


77 posted on 01/01/2011 9:58:06 PM PST by noinfringers2
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To: rogue yam
Some of the posts have just been stunning.

Like waking up from a long, happy slumber to find that you only dreamed of the riches you thought you had?

Excuse me? Just who the h*ll do you think you are coming on a thread and making an accusation like that? If you had even bothered to review any posting history you would have held your flippin' fingers off your keyboard. Indeed even reading a tagline or two should have given you pause to slightly consider the people you seek to provoke.

You are not the only American standing in the forum.

78 posted on 01/02/2011 3:34:07 AM PST by EBH ( Whether you eat your bread or see it vanish into a looter's stomach, is an absolute.)
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To: rogue yam

I have had a wonderful life of overcoming adversity, facing challenges and being rewarded with a wonderful family; like millions of others - so sympathy is redundant.

The personal details were simply an illustration of how the majority of working people, such as myself, made forced contributions to the SS program for 30 to 50 years; trusting that it would deliver on its premise and promises.

While ON OUR WATCH - we delivered - by working and contributing to the SS fund and paying exorbitant taxes, with few deductions (no childcare, no mortgage for renters) so check your facts before generalizing about negligent citizens. The Government seized control of our lives a long time ago.


79 posted on 01/02/2011 4:38:01 AM PST by sodpoodle (Despair; man's surrender. Laughter; God 's redemption.)
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To: dragnet2

This thread is about the looming insolvency of Social Security and what is to be done about it. If you can’t make a coherent, substantive contribution to the subject at hand then maybe you should do something else. Whittling, perhaps?


80 posted on 01/02/2011 8:37:22 AM PST by rogue yam
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To: Walts Ice Pick
In order to prevent fraud and abuse, case workers should be assigned to needy recipients to verify need.

You are a very funny man.

81 posted on 01/02/2011 8:38:39 AM PST by rogue yam
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To: sodpoodle
The personal details were simply an illustration of how the majority of working people, such as myself, made forced contributions to the SS program for 30 to 50 years; trusting that it would deliver on its premise and promises.

Social Security did not make promises. The promises were made by politicians elected by the American people including you and all of these other working people you mention. Those promises were transparently fraudulent all along and yet you and the corrupt politicians mutually played along. Now the inevitable time of reckoning is at hand and you want future taxpayers to suffer to make good on your past lies. That is irrational, immoral, and simply won't work.

While ON OUR WATCH - we delivered - by working and contributing to the SS fund and paying exorbitant taxes, with few deductions (no childcare, no mortgage for renters) so check your facts before generalizing about negligent citizens. The Government seized control of our lives a long time ago.

While on your watch you elected a succession of governments that created this mess right in front of your face all along. Someone has to take the hit for this nonsense. Who? Future taxpayers? Why are taxpayers not yet born more responsible for these failures than you are? It makes no sense, slick.

82 posted on 01/02/2011 8:48:38 AM PST by rogue yam
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To: EBH
You are not the only American standing in the forum.

There are a number of people posting irrational, self-regarding nonsense on this thread. That is bad for America. Social Security is a corrupt scam that is reaching its time of reckoning. It will require intelligence, integrity, rationality, and courage to unravel this mess. If you possess any of these qualities then I welcome your contributions to this thread reflecting same.

83 posted on 01/02/2011 8:53:14 AM PST by rogue yam
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To: rogue yam
You said the people who elected the government benefited from all of the borrowing and spending it undertook and are responsible. And then stated, "You then benefited from all of the borrowing and spending" government did.

I asked you what Specific government benefits did I receive, (Which would have required the government to loot Social Security?)....And you stated:

"The Department of Defense"

This is the kind of jackassery cock'nbull comment I expected from you...Social Security was not looted by the corrupt federal government to pay for military spending.

You're actually trying to convince those in the private sector, it is THEY who are responsible for this titanic insider government/banking corruption.....lol

The private sector clearly a belly full of this epic government corruption and intrusion, but the big government payroll parasites *always* respond by asking, "Are you including the military", when they know damn well the military has little to do with what has happened to D.C., insider banksters and king pins running the Wall Street cartel.

So once again, what are all these government benefits which taxes have not already paid for, that private sector working Americans have received, which cased the U.S. government to loot Social Security?

84 posted on 01/02/2011 11:01:38 AM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit.)
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To: noinfringers2

There had to be a point in time when incoming contributions to Social Security exceeded outgoing benefits.

I would suspect that some time between 1935 and 1970, when baby boomers and women began entering the workforce - in huge numbers; the data was never recalculated to allow for the increased life expectancy and disability retirement.

When the Government decided to pillage and plunder - the collapse was inevitable. Without investing the ‘trust fund’ assets - SS became a Ponzi scheme rather than a vested annuity.


85 posted on 01/02/2011 1:14:26 PM PST by sodpoodle (Despair; man's surrender. Laughter; God 's redemption.)
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To: sodpoodle
There had to be a point in time when incoming contributions to Social Security exceeded outgoing benefits.

This has been true almost every year since Social Security began (but was not true in 2010). All of the surplus that has been thus generated has already been spent on other things. From this point in time going forward, contributions are expected to be short of outgoing payments pretty much forever. (The next two or three years might be a wash or so if employment and payrolls recover quickly, but the retirement of the Baby Boomers begins now and will put Social Security permanently into the red starting very soon.) This shortfall will need to be made up either by increasing contributions, reducing benefits, or by paying the difference from other tax revenues (or more borrowing). This is the new reality going forward. There is no avoiding it. The insolvency of Social Security has been approaching for decades and now it is here.

86 posted on 01/02/2011 4:10:53 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: dragnet2

You are acting like a fool.

My posts have been very simple and straightforward but you just don’t want to face facts.

Social Security is insolvent and the U.S. Government is in debt. Today. Because of the actions and choices of all Americans over the last several decades (and longer), including you.

You want future taxpayers including people not yet born to be responsible for bailing this situation out rather than you.

That is crazy and stupid and immoral.


87 posted on 01/02/2011 4:22:29 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: dragnet2
The private sector clearly a belly full of this epic government corruption and intrusion, but the big government payroll parasites *always* respond by asking, "Are you including the military", when they know damn well the military has little to do with what has happened to D.C., insider banksters and king pins running the Wall Street cartel.

You really ought to post things that make more sense than this or else not post at all.

88 posted on 01/02/2011 4:25:29 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: rogue yam
Social Security is insolvent and the U.S. Government is in debt. Today. Because of the actions and choices of all Americans over the last several decades

You've already blamed the Social Security collapse and government debt on the military.

In addition, you've indicated Social Security insolvency is also a direct result of the actions of private sector working Americans.

You have implied the causes of Social Security problems have nothing to do with corrupt inept government, or their criminal insider friends up in Wall Street.

Could you please specify how private sector working Americans looted Social Security?

89 posted on 01/02/2011 4:39:24 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit.)
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To: cousair

But the problem has been, and will continue to be that we “take out” an s-load more than we put in. My MIL, who is a spry and healthy 88 put into it for years, and has been taking it for 15 years. She got back her inputs about ten years ago. She is now living off my kids. And us.

She gets mad when I point that out to her.

I don’t begrudge it. She is working the system as promised to her. I just wish more people understood it.


90 posted on 01/02/2011 4:44:58 PM PST by Vermont Lt (Don't taze my junk bro.)
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To: dragnet2
Could you please specify how private sector working Americans looted Social Security?

I have specified this repeatedly. You are just too crazy and stupid to understand plain English or else too immoral to acknowledge that which you understand. All Americans (including those employed in the private sector) elected successive governments that created and implemented the fraudulent and now-insolvent Social Security system we now have. It's that simple. You spew nonsense because you want free money from someone else and there's no rational way to ask for that.

91 posted on 01/02/2011 5:24:23 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: rogue yam
All Americans (including those employed in the private sector) elected successive governments that created and implemented the fraudulent and now-insolvent Social Security system we now have

All caused by the American private sector working people eh?

You're clearly too stupid to understand or see the big picture..

Or your just too stupid to understand the differences between these two entrenched corrupted beltway parties are all but inconsequential...

It's good cop bad cop, dummy.....Anyone home?

In case you haven't noticed, you have absolutely *no* control over this government...zero.

Government became so large, so intrusive, government itself no longer knows what it cost to run it, OR who is operating the endless layers of government, or even what some of these government entities do.

Why do you think millions of Americans now believe the collapse of this colossal government is a real possibility?

Ya think this was all an accident? Ya think this government did what was in Americans best interest? Is that why tens of millions of low wage illiterate illegal aliens were allowed to flood in, basically compromising and undermining our entire system, while government pandered to them at the expense of the tax payers?

Ya think this was an accident slick?

Ya think this globalism, one world order, the EU, central banking, the drive to destroy our borders and destruction of our sovereignty is some pie in the sky dream or some nut bar's conspiracy shtick.

Ya think Jim and Jane Smith in Hacksaw Arkansas wanted the U.S. to export 100,000 of it's companies, while importing tens of millions of low wage illegal aliens into the U.S?

Ya think this was all some accident or fluke?

Ya think Jim and Jane Smith down in Arkansas caused all this do ya?

92 posted on 01/02/2011 6:04:39 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit.)
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To: rogue yam
You spew nonsense because you want free money from someone

lol....Thanks for the laugh yam.

93 posted on 01/02/2011 6:19:14 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit.)
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