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WOODALL INTRODUCES FAIRTAX BILL ON DAY ONE WITH RECORD NUMBER OF ORIGINAL CO-SPONSORS
Press Release | Jan. 5, 2011 | U. S. Rep Rob Woodall

Posted on 01/06/2011 3:52:22 AM PST by phil_will1

Washington, DC—On Wednesday, January 5, 2011, Congressman Rob Woodall (GA-07) introduced H.R. 25, the FairTax. The FairTax legislation eliminates the current income tax paradigm and replaces it with a system of taxation based on consumption. The bill was introduced on Wednesday with 47 original co-sponsors—the most original co-sponsors the bill has ever had for its initial introduction.

“I committed to the Seventh District of Georgia that my efforts in Congress would focus on reclaiming freedom for the American people. It is for that reason that I am proud to make the FairTax—the only bill that restores transparency and simplicity to our tax code—my very first action in Congress. I have said since its inception that the FairTax is not a tax bill; it is a freedom bill,” Woodall said.

Woodall, who was sworn-in to Congress earlier in the day, played an integral role in crafting the original text of the FairTax as former Congressman John Linder's Chief of Staff when the bill was originally introduced in 1999.

"Our current tax system is a bloated, convoluted mess that gives government power over Americans' pockets. With 47 Members of Congress and counting signing their names to the FairTax, we are closer than ever before to voting on legislation that eliminates the frustrating mess that is the IRS."

Although the FairTax was introduced with 47 original co-sponsors, Woodall anticipates adding many more Members of Congress to the bill. Once the FairTax is introduced with the original co-sponsors, Members are able to sign on to the bill as co-sponsors throughout the 112th Congress.

"The number of signatures on the FairTax this time around is a testament to the will of the people. It is clear that Americans do not want to have their hard-earned money taken away and they want to reclaim the freedom to spend their money how they choose and when they choose.”

The list of original co-sponsors is as follows:

1) Tom Price (GA)

2) Brian Bilbray (CA)

3 ) John Carter (TX)

4 ) Michael Conaway (TX)

5 ) John Duncan (TN)

6) Virginia Foxx (NC)

7) Steve King (IA)

8) Michael McCaul (TX)

9) Pete Olson (TX)

10 ) John Sullivan (OK)

11 ) Mac Thornberry (TX)

12) Phil Gingrey (GA)

13) Roscoe Bartlett (MD)

14) Don Young (AK)

15) Ander Crenshaw (FL)

16) Todd Akin (MO)

17) Lynn Westmoreland (GA)

18) Tom Graves (GA)

19) Gus Bilirakis (FL)

20) Ted Poe (TX)

21) Randy Neugebauer (TX)

22) Jeff Miller (FL)

23) Robert Wittman (VA)

24) Jack Kingston (GA)

25) Marlin Stutzman (IN)

26) Jeff Flake (AZ)

27) Billy Long (MO)

28) Cliff Stearns (FL)

29) Tim Walberg (MI)

30) Dennis Ross (FL)

31) Dan Boren (OK)

32) Mo Brooks (AL)

33) Darrell Issa (CA)

34) Richard Nugent (FL)

35) Tim Scott (SC)

36) Blake Farenthold (TX)

37) Jeff Duncan (SC)

38) Rob Bishop (UT)

39) Mike Pence (IN)

40) Sandy Adams (FL)

41) John Mica (FL)

42) Sue Wilkins Myrick (NC)

43) Dan Burton (IN)

44) John Culberson (TX)

45) James Lankford (OK)

46) Mike Pompeo (KS)

47) Gary Miller (CA)

###

-- Jennifer Drogus Communications Director Congressman-elect Rob Woodall

Seventh District of Georgia 202.225.4272 | jennifer.drogus@mail.house.gov


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; Government
KEYWORDS: 112th; fairtax; taxreform; unfairtax
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To: CMAC51

“In the end, taxes are paid by the consumers and they generally balance out based on your level of consumption, regardless of the gimmicks in the system.”

I’m not sure I understand your point, but if you are suggesting that taxes “balance out” in proportion to consumption under the current system, then I would suggest otherwise. Because of all the “loopholes” under the current system, there are numerous examples of inequities. A friend of mine is a CPA who does some very high end tax returns. He told me that he sees cases all the time where a transaction can have entirely different tax consequences depending on the legal form of the entity involved.

I have often thought that if someone attempted to write a book describing the inefficiencies, inequities and illogical aspects of the Internal Revenue Code, it would be longer than War and Peace.


51 posted on 01/06/2011 11:39:18 AM PST by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: Adams

HIDDEN tax collection is certainly the problem.
Part of the beauty of the fair tax is that, with every purchase, you see how much the gov’t is taking from you.

And if they increase the rate, everyone sees it.


52 posted on 01/06/2011 11:44:37 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: phil_will1

The whole point behind the complexity of the US Tax Code is so that the rules can be applied differently for different people and entities.
It is from this unequal applications that politicians derive their power.


53 posted on 01/06/2011 11:47:43 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: Bigun
You had the question answered hundreds of times previously Lewis but are too thick sculled to “get it”!
Do you have a key on your keyboard with that one touch reply? You must.
The FairTax base is very much larger than the income tax base Lewis!
You don't know a tax base from first base. Is the Fairtax revenue neutral or is that just another Fairtax lie?
54 posted on 01/06/2011 12:01:25 PM PST by lewislynn ( What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in commom? Misinformation)
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To: CMAC51
Don't lecture me with your double talk blather. I'm not interested in your 'if this, then that, if that then this' Fairtax speak. Use some logic, simple arithmetic and answer the question...You can still be the first

You can't answer because it isn't possible with out lying.

55 posted on 01/06/2011 12:12:18 PM PST by lewislynn ( What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in commom? Misinformation)
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To: lewislynn
You don't know a tax base from first base.

ROFLMFAO!!!

That is REALLY funny coming from YOU Lewis!

56 posted on 01/06/2011 1:00:35 PM PST by Bigun ("It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." Voltaire)
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To: phil_will1
“In the end, taxes are paid by the consumers and they generally balance out based on your level of consumption, regardless of the gimmicks in the system.” I’m not sure I understand your point, but if you are suggesting that taxes “balance out” in proportion to consumption under the current system, then I would suggest otherwise.

The money to pay taxes always comes from the consumer. There is no other source for income, even investment and speculative income ultimately comes from the consumer. The path may be convoluted at times, but if you persist in tracing the source of income, it will always end up back at the consumer. If nothing is ultimately consumed, there is no source of income.

Under the current system, the consumer provides the funds to pay taxes for the entities (persons or business) down the revenue stream. The funds are paid as taxes in various forms along the revenue stream.

There are oportunities to transfer more to the government than necessary along that revenue stream. I am, of course, referring only to legal methods. It is similar to buying a car. Some people go into the dealership and pay sticker. Some people bargain. Some people use leases or business entities to alter the cost. The people paying sticker are doing so by choice or ignorance, but they do have alternatives available. So there are variations around the norm of what money is transferred to the government.

The second aspect of limiting how much is transferred to the government is in the area of alternative investment. A person or entity can choose to invest time or money into a direct effor to reduce payment to the government. Just as coupons can be used to lower the grocery bill, there are methods to reduce the tax transfer. Some people never use coupons while others invest hours collecting coupons and make good use of them. The hours invested have a value and they represent an alternative investment. Works out well for some people and more power to them. Essentially though, the entity is using an alternative form of investment. This creates a degree of variability however, the total financial picture must be examined including the alternative investment in computing the savings, not just the amount of tax avoided. This reduces the variability by quite a bit. For example, the CPA ends up transferring some of those tax funds to the government rather than the original entity. The money still comes from the end consumer though, it just took one more alternative stream on its way to the government.

So, yes, the consumer is the person actually providing the revenue to be transferred to the government. Also yes, there can be variability in the stream as that reveneue heads to the government. Even under the Fair Tax system, there will be variability. If you negotiate a lower price for something, you have in essence lowered your tax burden.

57 posted on 01/06/2011 1:15:37 PM PST by CMAC51
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To: lewislynn
Don't lecture me with your double talk blather. I'm not interested in your 'if this, then that, if that then this' Fairtax speak. Use some logic, simple arithmetic and answer the question...You can still be the first You can't answer because it isn't possible with out lying.

Simple arithmetic - If you need to provide 20% of GDP as revenue to the government but you are going to return 13% of what you collect in the form of rebates or exemptions, you will need to collect 23% on every transaction at the point of sale.

Simple enough?

58 posted on 01/06/2011 1:22:28 PM PST by CMAC51
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To: phil_will1
It’s a tax reform proposal which eliminates income taxes (both individual and state),
Thanks for validating my tag line.
59 posted on 01/06/2011 4:10:37 PM PST by lewislynn ( What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in commom? Misinformation)
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To: phil_will1; Man50D; Principled; EternalVigilance; kevkrom; Bigun; PeteB570; FBD; Voter#537; ...

I’m very pleased to see this — Rep. Woodall promised to introduce the legislation when he announced his run to succeed Rep. Linder. Woodall worked for Linder since 1994 and has been a FairTax supporter FRom the original get-go in 1999.

He will be an excellent representative for Georgia and the FairTax.


60 posted on 01/06/2011 11:24:22 PM PST by Taxman (So that the beautiful pressure does not diminish!)
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Comment #61 Removed by Moderator

To: phil_will1

All this great stuff on its way to languish and die in the Senate. :(:(:(


62 posted on 01/07/2011 12:17:52 AM PST by Tzimisce (It's just another day in Obamaland.)
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To: Taxman

“I’m very pleased to see this “

Me too. Now all we need is a decent POTUS.


63 posted on 01/07/2011 12:22:25 AM PST by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: phil_will1
Let's see. Fed NRST 30% + California 8.5% sales tax existing plus another 5-7% to cover its lost state income tax. That makes for a nearly 50% total sales tax.

If you think for one minute that this country won't then incur all the inefficiencies of a barter economy and a black market, I've got news for you. All you have to do is to look at cigarettes, alcohol, and out-of-country pharmaceuticals to see what will happen. Oh and if you think the IRS is invasive, you haven't seen anything until the Feds are breathing down every single person's neck to make sure currently private gray market transactions are included. So, stick out your hand and take your chip because that is where this goes.

A "Fair Tax" is no panacea. Focus on cutting spending instead.

64 posted on 01/07/2011 1:21:18 AM PST by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to manage by central planning.)
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To: JaneNC

To 4 - Wrong. Thru myriad ways income can be hidden, not reported in its entirety, not reported at all. Everyone pays a consumption tax, unless of course they never buy anything.


65 posted on 01/07/2011 1:36:28 AM PST by jla
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To: phil_will1

No damn way!!!!


66 posted on 01/07/2011 2:02:34 AM PST by dalereed
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To: CitizenUSA

“Pass an amendment abolishing the income tax first. Then we can talk about Fair Tax.”

Bingo. The so-called Fair Tax is just another name for a national sales tax. If you don’t rip out the income tax by it’s roots, you’re likely to end up with both an income tax AND a national sales tax.


67 posted on 01/07/2011 2:24:20 AM PST by RKBA Democrat (Palin 2012: Renew, Revive, and Restore)
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To: phil_will1

Awesome.


68 posted on 01/07/2011 2:56:28 AM PST by arderkrag (Georgia is God's Country.)
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To: CMAC51

“Under the Fair Tax, the Ford would sell for $16,000 and at the time of sale the consumer would pay $4,000 in taxes”

I can’t see prices being lowered by business owners, at least initially. I think that once they don’t have the tax burden, they will look at it as bonus income. Maybe over time prices would be reduced due to competition, but I just can’t see them coming down that much that quickly.


69 posted on 01/07/2011 3:13:58 AM PST by Lynne
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To: phil_will1

Sad to see only one Indiana Rep signed on. At least he represents my district.

Where’s Mike Pence?


70 posted on 01/07/2011 3:14:44 AM PST by AFreeBird
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To: AFreeBird

“Where’s Mike Pence?”

37) Jeff Duncan (SC)

38) Rob Bishop (UT)

39) Mike Pence (IN)

40) Sandy Adams (FL)

41) John Mica (FL)


71 posted on 01/07/2011 3:41:47 AM PST by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: AFreeBird

Marlin Stutzman and Dan Burton are also on there. That makes three from Indiana. There are three other freshmen Republicans from Indiana that we are working on. We should get at least one of those by March 31.

The goal is to have 100 co-sponsors (in the house) by the end of the first quarter.


72 posted on 01/07/2011 3:47:03 AM PST by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: RKBA Democrat

“The so-called Fair Tax is just another name for a national sales tax.”

Close. The “so-called FairTax” is the name of a SPECIFIC sales tax proposal which is laid out in bill language and is available for anyone to see on the internet. It is the most thoroughly researched tax reform proposal ever presented to congress and addresses the broad range of adverse economic trends that the current system exacerbates more comprehensively and effectively than any other alternative.

Compare that to “the so-called flat tax”, which is the preferred form of tax reform of the Republican establishment. If you ask 5 flat taxers what version of flat tax they support, you are quite likely to get 5 different answers, or some sort of evasive answer, such as “any”. None of those answers will correspond to HR 1040, which was the only flat tax bill in the house last session. In actuality, there is no such thing as “the flat tax” in the sense of a single proposal that enjoys the support of even a majority of those who call themselves flat taxers. A flat INCOME tax is a form of taxation, rather than a specific proposal, just as a sales tax, VAT, excise, etc. is.

For this reason, comparing the FairTax to “the flat tax” is a bit of an apples to oranges proposition. The various flat tax proposals (other than hr 1040) typically do not have enough support to have been drafted into bills* and I have never seen an economic study done on one. Hr 1040 isn’t even revenue neutral, which is a minimum requirement for a tax reform proposal to be taken seriously in congress. Many flat taxers don’t even know that it is a flat tax OPTION, meaning that it does not get rid of a single word of the current mess that no one understands.

Little wonder, then, that the Republican establishment keeps introducing “new and improved” versions of “the flat tax” every few months or so in an effort to find one that resonates with voters. I think that Laffer alone has touted two different flat tax versions within the past year. All of those misguided efforts to date have fallen flat (pardon the pun).

“The fight for fundamental tax reform is such a difficult uphill battle that requires so much energy and political capital, why would you go through all that and come up with the wrong answer?”
Dick Armey
Former House Majority Leader
Current Lobbyist

Indeed, FairTaxers agree with Mr. Armey’s statement - we just don’t agree with what constitutes “the wrong answer”. Why go through the effort to pass tax reform and not address the trade deficit and the ongoing erosion of our manufacturing sector, the crisis in SS & Medicare, etc, etc, etc?

* In addition to HR 1040, there were a couple of “flat tax” bills in the senate, none of which have more than a couple of co-sponsors and none of which have companion bills in the house where tax reform legislation is supposed to originate in our form of government.


73 posted on 01/07/2011 4:26:26 AM PST by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: phil_will1

If I’m not mistaken, a tax on consumption would pass Constitutional muster, whereas a tax on “income” does not.

Is this correct?


74 posted on 01/07/2011 5:00:49 AM PST by Westbrook (Having children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: phil_will1

> rate of 23 cents per dollar

Am I reading this right?

A 23% sales tax?

Who in the world would want to buy ANYthing at that rate, and how in the world is that supposed to stimulate the economy?

It might stimulate savings, I’ll venture.


75 posted on 01/07/2011 5:07:21 AM PST by Westbrook (Having children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: Westbrook

“If I’m not mistaken, a tax on consumption would pass Constitutional muster, whereas a tax on ‘income’ does not.”

The founders rejected the notion of an income tax, which is why the 16th amendment had to be ratified. An income tax had been tried a couple of times in the 19th century (most notably to help finance the Civil War), but the Supreme Court struck down an income tax sometime after that. The 16th amendment was ratified in 1913, I think.

We believe that the founders got it right and the legislatures (both state and federal) of the early 20th century were wrong. I won’t even get into the controversy over whether the 16th was duly ratified or not.


76 posted on 01/07/2011 5:14:16 AM PST by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: JaneNC

Of course you said this realizing that the current tax system orginally started out as a Flat Tax, right?


77 posted on 01/07/2011 5:25:14 AM PST by 84rules ( Ooh-Rah! Semper Fi!)
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To: phil_will1

**income tax had been tried a couple of times in the 19th century (most notably to help finance the Civil War), but the Supreme Court struck down an income tax sometime after that. The 16th amendment was ratified in 1913, I think**

From Wikipedia:
Income taxes pre-Pollock
To raise revenue to fund the Civil War, Congress introduced the income tax through the Revenue Act of 1861.[7] It levied a flat tax of 3% on annual income above $800, which was equivalent to $19,490 in today’s money.[8] This act was replaced the following year with the Revenue Act of 1862, which levied a graduated tax of 3–5% on income above $600 (worth $13,156 today[8]) and specified a termination of income taxation in 1866.

The Socialist Labor Party advocated a graduated income tax in 1887.[9] The Populist Party “demand[ed] a graduated income tax” in its 1892 platform.[10] The Democratic Party, led by William Jennings Bryan, advocated the income tax law passed in 1894,[11] and proposed an income tax in its 1908 platform.[12]

Prior to the Supreme Court’s decision in Pollock v. Farmers’ Loan & Trust Co., all income taxes had been considered to be indirect taxes and so were required to be imposed with geographical uniformity; as opposed to being direct taxes, which are required to be apportioned among the states according to population.[13][14]

The Wilson–Gorman Tariff Act of 1894 attempted to impose a federal tax of 2% on incomes over $4,000 (worth $101,200 today[8]). Derided as “un-Democratic, inquisitorial, and wrong in principle,”[15] it was challenged in federal court.

The Pollock case
In Pollock v. Farmers’ Loan & Trust Co. the Supreme Court declared certain taxes on incomes — such as those from property under the 1894 Act — to be unconstitutionally unapportioned direct taxes. The Court reasoned that a tax on income from property should be treated as a tax on “property by reason of its ownership” and so should be required to be apportioned. The reasoning was that taxes on the rents from land, the dividends from stocks and so forth burdened the property generating the income in the same way that a tax on “property by reason of its ownership” burdened that property.

After Pollock, while income taxes on wages (as indirect taxes) were still not required to be apportioned by population, taxes on interest, dividends and rent income were required to be apportioned by population. The Pollock ruling made the source of the income (e.g., property versus labor, etc.) relevant in determining whether the tax imposed on that income was deemed to be “direct” (and thus required to be apportioned among the states according to population) or, alternatively, “indirect” (and thus required only to be imposed with geographical uniformity).[16]

In his dissent to the Pollock decision, Justice John Marshall Harlan stated:

When, therefore, this court adjudges, as it does now adjudge, that Congress cannot impose a duty or tax upon personal property, or upon income arising either from rents of real estate or from personal property, including invested personal property, bonds, stocks, and investments of all kinds, except by apportioning the sum to be so raised among the States according to population, it practically decides that, without an amendment of the Constitution — two-thirds of both Houses of Congress and three-fourths of the States concurring — such property and incomes can never be made to contribute to the support of the national government.[17]
The Congress reflected the concern of many elements of society that the wealthiest Americans had consolidated too much economic power.[18]

Adoption
On June 16, 1909, President William Howard Taft, in an address to Congress, proposed a 2% federal income tax on corporations by way of an excise tax and a constitutional amendment to allow the previously enacted income tax.

Upon the privilege of doing business as an artificial entity and of freedom from a general partnership liability enjoyed by those who own the stock.[19][20]
The text of an amendment to the Constitution was first proposed by Senator Norris Brown of Nebraska. He submitted two attempts, Senate Resolutions Nos. 25 and 39. The amendment proposal finally accepted was Senate Joint Resolution No. 40, introduced by Senator Nelson Aldrich of Rhode Island, the Senate majority leader and Finance Committee Chairman.[21]

On July 12, 1909, the resolution proposing the Sixteenth Amendment was passed by the Sixty-first Congress and submitted to the state legislatures. Support for the income tax was strongest in the western states and opposition was strongest in the northeastern states.[22] New York Governor Charles Evans Hughes, who a few years later became a Supreme Court justice, opposed the income tax amendment. He believed “from whatever source derived” implied that the federal government would then have the power to tax state and municipal bonds, thus excessively centralize government power, and “would make it impossible for the state to keep any property”.[23]

The presidential election of 1912 was contested between three advocates of an income tax.[24] On February 25, 1913, Secretary of State Philander Knox proclaimed that the amendment had been ratified by the necessary three-fourths of the states, and thus had become part of the Constitution.[25] Shortly thereafter, the Revenue Act of 1913 was enacted.

According to the United States Government Printing Office, the following states ratified the amendment:[26]

Alabama (August 10, 1909)
Kentucky (February 8, 1910)
South Carolina (February 19, 1910)
Illinois (March 1, 1910)
Mississippi (March 7, 1910)
Oklahoma (March 10, 1910)
Maryland (April 8, 1910)
Georgia (August 3, 1910)
Texas (August 16, 1910)
Ohio (January 19, 1911)
Idaho (January 20, 1911)
Oregon (January 23, 1911)
Washington (January 26, 1911)
Montana (January 27, 1911)
Indiana (January 30, 1911)
California (January 31, 1911)
Nevada (January 31, 1911)
South Dakota (February 1, 1911)
Nebraska (February 9, 1911)
North Carolina (February 11, 1911)
Colorado (February 15, 1911)
North Dakota (February 17, 1911)
Michigan (February 23, 1911)
Iowa (February 24, 1911)
Kansas (March 2, 1911)
Missouri (March 16, 1911)
Maine (March 31, 1911)
Tennessee (April 7, 1911)
Arkansas (April 22, 1911), after having previously rejected the amendment
Wisconsin (May 16, 1911)
New York (July 12, 1911)
Arizona (April 3, 1912)
Minnesota (June 11, 1912)
Louisiana (June 28, 1912)
West Virginia (January 31, 1913)
Delaware (February 3, 1913)
Ratification (by the requisite 36 states) was completed on February 3, 1913 with the ratification by Delaware. The amendment was subsequently ratified by the following states, bringing the total number of ratifying states to forty-two of the forty-eight then existing:

37. New Mexico (February 3, 1913)
38. Wyoming (February 3, 1913)
39. New Jersey (February 4, 1913)
40. Vermont (February 19, 1913)
41. Massachusetts (March 4, 1913)
42. New Hampshire (March 7, 1913), after rejecting the amendment on March 2, 1911
The legislatures of the following states rejected the amendment without ever subsequently ratifying it:

Connecticut
Rhode Island
Utah
The legislatures of the following states never considered the proposed amendment:

Florida
Pennsylvania
Virginia
[edit] Pollock nullifiedThe Sixteenth Amendment nullified the effect of Pollock.[27][28] That means the Congress may impose taxes on income from any source without having to apportion the total dollar amount of tax collected from each state according to each state’s population in relation to the total national population.[29] In Abrams v. Commissioner, the United States Tax Court stated:

Since the ratification of the Sixteenth Amendment, it is immaterial with respect to income taxes, whether the tax is a direct or indirect tax. The whole purpose of the Sixteenth Amendment was to relieve all income taxes when imposed from [the requirement of] apportionment and from [the requirement of] a consideration of the source whence the income was derived.[30]


78 posted on 01/07/2011 5:25:54 AM PST by Cowman (How can the IRS seize property without a warrant if the 4th amendment still stands?)
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To: Westbrook

“Who in the world would want to buy ANYthing at that rate, and how in the world is that supposed to stimulate the economy?

It might stimulate savings, I’ll venture.”

There would some shifting toward savings and away from consumption, which is one of the economic benefits. Every serious economist I have heard speak on the subject has said that our savings rate is too low and is going to cause long term problems if not addressed. We cannot remain dependent on foreign sources of capital indefinitely.

There are, however, three primary reasons that the FairTax would stimulate the economy:
1. It would facilitate the repatriation of much of the app. $13 trillion (and growing) that is stranded offshore by the current tax system. This is capital that could be used to fuel our economy, rather than foreign economies.
2. Because it is “border adjustable”, it would create pricing shifts that would improve the competitive position of US producers (primarily mfg & ag) in foreign markets, as well as our own marketplace. The US is the only one of 30 OECD nations without a border adjustment element in its tax system.
3. It would eliminate several hundred billion $$ in wasted compliance costs. This is capital which could be much more effectively employed in our economy.

Every economic study that I am aware of has forecast a more rapidly growing economy under the FairTax than under a continuation of the current system, with GDP growth of typically 10 to 14 % higher in the initial years immediately after implementation. That is HUGE. None of us have ever lived through a year in which GDP grew by 10+%. That is Chinese growth rates in an economy three times China’s size. Obviously, those growth rates aren’t permanent, but by the time they leveled off, the US economy would be 1/4 to 1/3 bigger than it would have been under a continuation of the current system and THAT difference would be permanent.


79 posted on 01/07/2011 5:32:48 AM PST by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: JaneNC

Boooo

Fair tax is not good.

FLAT TAX is equitable.

****************************************

The income tax was originally a “flat tax” and it’s pretty “flat” now with only 3 rates ... How’s that working for you? Continuing the Income tax is a losing bet ...

The “Fair Tax” is equitable and cannot be gamed easily by the Pols.


80 posted on 01/07/2011 5:55:51 AM PST by Neidermeyer
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To: Westbrook

Almost forgot. It’s important to note that, with regard to consumption, any decline would be
a) relatively small (compared to the entire economy)
b) temporary - 3 or 4 years or less (because economic growth would overtake it), and
c) comprised 100% of imports - there would actually be a small increase in the consumption of US produced goods (not only here but in foreign markets as well)

So while it may seem contradictory to forecast total net consumption declining and the economy growing, that is precisely what eliminating the bias that the current system provides to foreign producers over and above our own domestic producers will do. On a longer term basis, we end up with a faster growing economy with a better balance between savings and consumption and with US producers being more competitive on a planet where globalization is the biggest transformational change taking place.


81 posted on 01/07/2011 6:04:09 AM PST by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: JaneNC

The only thing I don’t like on the Fair Tax is that the percentage is designed to support the current size of government. It should be cut to slash the size of government.


82 posted on 01/07/2011 6:31:36 AM PST by wastedyears (It has nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with control.)
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To: wastedyears

The theory is that by making people aware of the actual amount being robbed from them to support this government,
that popular pressure will reduce the size of government.


83 posted on 01/07/2011 6:33:50 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: phil_will1

So then it sounds like the 16th still remains active even after the Fair Tax Bill goes into effect. If that’s not true please correct me.


84 posted on 01/07/2011 6:36:26 AM PST by wastedyears (It has nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with control.)
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To: Neidermeyer
The income tax (The civil war version) began as a flat 3% tax. This lasted less than 1 year when a “graduated” structure was imposed.

The original income tax proposal (1909?) was a flat tax only on corporations.

No matter what form of taxation you put in place will be tinkered with by bureaucrats and politicians. The goal of reform is to limit the damage they will do to freedom by their tinkering.

The real danger of direct taxation of income is the utter invasiveness of it essentially requiring the IRS (unelected and unaccountable) to keep and maintain a dossier on every American citizen and then require that citizen to update the information in it annually. I believe this to be in direct violation of the fourth, fifth, tenth, and possibly the thirteenth amendments.

I would favor a “fair tax” sales tax, or other indirect taxes as long as it would require a 3/4 majority to change the structure in any way. I would also like something in there that would state that congress would be limited in what they could spent to a percentage of GDP.

I also think that we should do a thorough audit of the IRS and any infringement of constitutional rights or criminal laws by their minions would be prosecuted fully and without the insulation given them by being a member of a government agency.

I also want a pony.

85 posted on 01/07/2011 6:36:54 AM PST by Cowman (How can the IRS seize property without a warrant if the 4th amendment still stands?)
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To: lewislynn
Is the Fairtax revenue neutral or is that just another Fairtax lie?

Isn't "revenue neutral" kind of a moving target? I mean, they had to assume some revenue starting point for the plan. I think the better point would be, "This tax code will bring in X amount of revenue, which is more than enough to run Washington." So, the point of revenue neutrality is included as a selling point for the politicians. Many will never do away with the current tax system because of the inherent power it gives. Then there are those who just want to make sure Washington will still get their money.
86 posted on 01/07/2011 6:45:16 AM PST by Eagle of Liberty (formally known as Kerretarded....I changed my name)
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To: wastedyears

“So then it sounds like the 16th still remains active even after the Fair Tax Bill goes into effect. If that’s not true please correct me.”

The FairTax has a provision which would “sunset” the bill itself if the 16th amendment is not repealed within 7 years. That is, if the 16th isn’t repealed within 7 years, then the old system is reinstated and the sales tax goes away. Because ratification/repeal of a constitutional amendment is such a high hurdle, it will take longer than the passage of a simple bill. However, FairTaxers have enough confidence in the proposal that they know that once the FairTax is put in place, the American public will demand that it be made permanent and the political pressure on the federal and state legislatures to repeal the 16th will be enormous. Generating that much political pressure in advance of implementation is virtually impossible - which is what the opponents are banking on who insist on repeal of the 16th before the FairTax is passed.


87 posted on 01/07/2011 6:47:00 AM PST by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: phil_will1

FairTax bump.


88 posted on 01/07/2011 6:51:36 AM PST by EternalVigilance (How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words! -- Samuel Adams)
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To: tiger-one
The Fair Tax is the first building block to a VAT!

Please expand on this. I would like to understand your logic.
89 posted on 01/07/2011 6:53:26 AM PST by Eagle of Liberty (formally known as Kerretarded....I changed my name)
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To: Eagle of Liberty

“Isn’t ‘revenue neutral’ kind of a moving target?”

Somewhat moving. However, a couple of studies were done in the 2005 timeframe (app.) and they validated the original rate calculations done in the late 90s - within a percentage point or so. The reason is that it is spending that has gotten out of whack, and taxation has not risen proportionately. That is why we have a big deficit. Well, part of the reason. The other is that economic growth has slowed, which is what the FairTax addresses.

However, bear in mind that the revenue neutral calculation is done on a static basis, which is what current congressional rules require. If the calculation were done on a dynamic basis, the FairTax would be highly revenue positive because of the substantial economic expansion it would create.

The dispute over static vs dynamic scoring has, of course, been raging for some time in the halls of congress completely independent of the FairTax.


90 posted on 01/07/2011 6:55:43 AM PST by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: CitizenUSA

“Pass an amendment abolishing the income tax first. Then we can talk about Fair Tax.”

What I like about the fair tax is that it contains a caveat to insure that you don’t have both an income tax and a consumption tax. It requires that the income tax stop before a consumption tax is started.

There is nothing to prevent the addition of a consumption tax today, in addition to the income tax. This adds a bit of protection to us....


91 posted on 01/07/2011 7:00:17 AM PST by CSM (Keeper of the "Dave Ramsey Fan" ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
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To: taxcontrol

“Tax COLLECTION is not the problem. Spending is the problem.”

I agree and I would also agree that the fairtax does absolutely nothing in itself to address spending. That said, I like that it would hit every voter in the head with every purchase the cost of government. It would bring the cost of government to the forefront of visibility. As things are now, so many people have no idea of the taxes they actually pay. There is no accontability because the true cost of government is hidden beneath multiple layers of nonsense.

By giving the electorate a clear vision of the cost of government spending, I’d wager that spending reductions would be demanded by the large majority of voters.

How do you get the majority to support spending reductions when they don’t see the effect of that spending?


92 posted on 01/07/2011 7:06:29 AM PST by CSM (Keeper of the "Dave Ramsey Fan" ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
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To: CSM

But if congress is still spending and part of that spending is hidden from the tax payer by borrowing (say spending at 23% of GDP but only taxing at 19% GDP), then the tax payer STILL will not see the cost of government.


93 posted on 01/07/2011 7:10:46 AM PST by taxcontrol
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To: taxcontrol

“But if congress is still spending and part of that spending is hidden from the tax payer by borrowing (say spending at 23% of GDP but only taxing at 19% GDP), then the tax payer STILL will not see the cost of government.”

That component of spending is already highly visible in the form of the federal deficit. There is more attention being paid to the deficit now than I have seen in my lifetime. Of course, for most of my lifetime deficits weren’t anywhere near the level they are now. However, it appears that the federal deficit has become one of the top political issues of 2011, due in no small part to what happened on Nov. 2.


94 posted on 01/07/2011 7:35:29 AM PST by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: phil_will1

>>That is why there is a transitional credit included

Is there a traditional credit included for those of us who were dumb enough to save and try to fund our retirements... with savings $ that have already been taxed? Or are we just SOL?


95 posted on 01/07/2011 7:40:01 AM PST by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
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To: phil_will1

“It’s a tax reform proposal which eliminates income taxes (both individual and state),”

I have to admit that I have not been active in the discussions for awhile, so I may have lost touch. How would the federal law eliminate state income tax?


96 posted on 01/07/2011 7:55:40 AM PST by CSM (Keeper of the "Dave Ramsey Fan" ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
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To: JaneNC

our current tax code started as a FLAT TAX, only on millionaires....

fairtax is the way.


97 posted on 01/07/2011 8:08:55 AM PST by teeman8r (Act nobly, behave humbly. Not the other way around.)
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To: phil_will1

Okay, that’s better.


98 posted on 01/07/2011 8:17:26 AM PST by AFreeBird
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To: Eagle of Liberty
Then there are those who just want to make sure Washington will still get their money.
Revenue neutral, "to make sure Washington will still get their money" . That is the (stated) goal of the Fairtax plan, not mine.
99 posted on 01/07/2011 8:19:56 AM PST by lewislynn ( What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in commom? Misinformation)
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To: lewislynn
That is the (stated) goal of the Fairtax plan, not mine.

Wrong again Lewis! That is what the LAW requires of any replacement tax plan Lewis!

100 posted on 01/07/2011 8:35:02 AM PST by Bigun ("It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." Voltaire)
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