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Giffords Shooter Jared Loughner Used a Glock 19
the truth about guns ^ | Jan 8, 2010 | Robert Farago

Posted on 01/09/2011 7:24:01 AM PST by KeyLargo

Giffords Shooter Jared Loughner Used a Glock 19 Posted on January 8, 2011 by Robert Farago

The Washington Post is reporting that TTAG’s Brad Kozak was right to say the media was wrong when they rushed to report that Rep. Gabrielle Giffords shooter Jared Loughner used an “automatic rifle” to carry-out his heinous crime. As Brad and I discussed, mortality is limited when you spray a large group of people with a full-auto rifle. Accuracy is difficult as people tend to hit the deck pretty damn quick. Look at the often amazing lack of lethality of drive-by shootings. Loughner had to have aimed pretty carefully to have shot 16 people (five murdered and 11 injured). That said, almost all the reports from the scene claim Loughner was “firing indiscriminately” . . .

The Post reports that Loughner used a Glock 19, originally claiming that the weapon had “an extended clip.” [The above image is from Loughner's Facebook page, deleted within minutes of the attack.]

The Glock 19 has a standard 15-round magazine. CNN reports that 18 people were shot. Either every one of Loughner’s bullets found a target (some more than one), the perp reloaded or he did indeed have a large capacity magazine. Glock sells magazines that hold 19 or 33 rounds, which are banned in some states (as is the gun).

In any case, it’s clear that Loughner was no stranger to guns.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: 9mm; banglist; giffords; glock; glock19; handgun; jaredloughner; loughner; shooter
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Giffords Shooter Jared Loughner Used a Glock 19 [Shown Here]


1 posted on 01/09/2011 7:24:02 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo
Glock sells magazines that hold 19 or 33 rounds, which are banned in some states (as is the gun).

In which of the 57 states are Glocks banned?

2 posted on 01/09/2011 7:31:02 AM PST by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: KeyLargo
the media was wrong when they rushed to report that Rep. Gabrielle Giffords shooter Jared Loughner used an “automatic rifle” to carry-out his heinous crime.

I could've told them that and I've never fired an "automatic rifle" in my life. He was way too accurate.

3 posted on 01/09/2011 7:32:05 AM PST by Marie (Obama seems to think that Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since Camp David, not King David)
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To: KeyLargo

4 posted on 01/09/2011 7:33:33 AM PST by Iron Munro ("Damn it, Jim! I'm a doctor - not a Community Organizer!")
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Marie
He was way too accurate.

He was also very close.

6 posted on 01/09/2011 7:35:14 AM PST by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: facedown

California
California law prohibits anybody from manufacturing, importing, keeping for sale, offering or exposing for sale, giving, or lending any large capacity magazine. What is “large capacity magazine”? California defines “large capacity magazine” as any feeding device with the
capacity to accept more than ten rounds, but does not include any .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.

California Penal Code12020-12040 clearly states…

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one
year or in the state prison:

(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes
for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large capacity magazine.

Hawaii

Hawaii Statute 134-8(c) states…
“The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in
excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of use with a pistol is prohibited”

Illinois

In the state of Illinois each municipality has their own statuettes regarding high capacity magazines. Aurora, Chicago, Franklin Park, Oak Park, Riverdale

Maryland

Maryland Criminal Law Code 4-305(b) states…
“A person may not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer a detachable magazine
that has a capacity of more than 20 rounds of ammunition for a firearm”

This section does not apply to a .22 caliber rifle with a tubular magazine

Massachusetts, New Jersey, and New York all have similar large capacity feeding device bans. Punishable by up to a year in jail and varying fines.

Source:

“State Restrictions on Magazines, Chemical Sprays and Stun Guns”

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/NoHiCapChemSpray.pdf

http://www.thegunsource.com/high-capacity-magazines.aspx


7 posted on 01/09/2011 7:38:02 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: Iron Munro

Most “journalists” don’t know which end of a firearm to stick in their mouths....


8 posted on 01/09/2011 7:38:10 AM PST by clintonh8r ("Let them eat lobster cake." Michele Antoinette, vacation #6.)
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To: Iron Munro

Love it!

Glock 19 is a pretty serious weapon for a pothead loon like this to own.


9 posted on 01/09/2011 7:38:51 AM PST by bigbob
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To: KeyLargo

Early reports had mother with “parks and recreation”, could she be a source of such a firearm?


10 posted on 01/09/2011 7:39:28 AM PST by depressed in 06 (The only thing the ZerO administration is competent at is bad ideas.)
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To: KeyLargo

The 9mm is noted for deep penetration, until its been conclusively proven otherwise I believe that in such close proximity that several rounds entered one person, exited and struck another.


11 posted on 01/09/2011 7:41:34 AM PST by Eye of Unk (If your enemy is quick to anger, seek to irritate him. Sun Tzu, The Art of War.)
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To: KeyLargo

I don’t understand....The question was “In which of the 57 states are Glocks banned?”

Your reply listed a bunch of states that banned high capacity magazines.

Are there any states that ban Glock 19 semi-auto pistols?


12 posted on 01/09/2011 7:44:28 AM PST by Postman
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To: Iron Munro
That is oh so funny, but sadly oh so true.
13 posted on 01/09/2011 7:46:28 AM PST by Falcon4.0
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To: facedown

Not trying to answer for him, but, I live in SW MO and I used to have this GREAT gun shop near me, (he retired) I remember talking to him, and he telling me that he would do business with any state with the exceptions of CA and MA, too many restrictions, and he seriously feared their strange laws.(He phrased it a little more colorfully though.)

If I were to guess, one of those states would ban Glocks.

Hope this helps and I am not trying to start a fight.

Side Note: I love Glocks, big fan of Glock 30, look it up, IMHO, this is close to the ultimate CCW, again, I am not trying to start a fight.


14 posted on 01/09/2011 7:47:27 AM PST by ConservativeChris
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To: Flintlock

Quick spamming the threads!


15 posted on 01/09/2011 7:48:02 AM PST by Sidebar Moderator
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To: UCANSEE2

He was also a face that they all knew well since he worked for her.


16 posted on 01/09/2011 7:48:20 AM PST by bmwcyle (It is Satan's fault)
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To: KeyLargo
Those laws refer to the magazines. The article says:

Glock sells magazines that hold 19 or 33 rounds, which are banned in some states (as is the gun).

My question was in what state is the gun banned?

17 posted on 01/09/2011 7:48:54 AM PST by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: KeyLargo

It is possible that the perp used a glock 17 magazine in his mod 19 which holds 17 shots. It can also be used in the mod 26.


18 posted on 01/09/2011 7:50:05 AM PST by hockea
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To: bigbob

Story from one of the ‘Obama Media Group’:

Jan. 8, 2011
Gun Used in Ariz. Shooting Purchased Legally
9mm Glock Used in Shooting That Killed 6 and Injured 13 Was Purchased at Sportsman’s Warehouse in Tucson

(CBS) The semi-automatic pistol Jared Loughner used to kill six and injure 13 others, including Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., was purchased legally, according to the Washington Post.

Law enforcement sources told the newspaper that weapon was legally purchased on Nov. 30 at Sportman’s Warehouse in Tucson.

“This stuff should never happen,” store manager Reese Widmier told the Washington Post. “We’re cooperating with the ATF and all the federal agencies to help with this tragic incident.”

Special Section: Tragedy in Tuscon

A source was unsure whether Loughner himself purchased the gun, or if someone else did, reports CBS News. A legal sale would involve the purchaser filling out paperwork and a background check to determine if the buyer is allowed to purchase a gun.

A source with knowledge of the gun involved in Saturday’s shooting says the weapon used was a Glock 19 9mm semi-automatic pistol.

Importantly, the source said, the gun had a high capacity magazine that can hold up to 30 or more rounds, two to three times a normal magazine capacity; and witnesses said the magazine stuck out about 12 inches. The Glock website confirms that, reading that the standard magazine hold 15 rounds, while the high capacity magazine Loughner had can hold up to 33. One reports says the magazine was probably purchased separately.

The high capacity magazine was banned while the federal assault weapons ban was in place during the Clinton administration; the ban was allowed to expire during the Bush administration.

The gun normally retails for $499, a manager at the Tuscon store told CBS News, while declining to confirm the purchase. Sportman’s Warehouse is national chain with stores in 25 states, according to its website

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/01/08/national/main7226879.shtml


19 posted on 01/09/2011 7:50:24 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: ConservativeChris

Yeah, I know a bunch of dealers who won’t do business with CA, MA, NY or HI just because they’re, shall we say, unpredictable. I’m simply not aware of any state than has a ban on Glocks, per se.


20 posted on 01/09/2011 7:54:29 AM PST by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: UCANSEE2
“He was way too accurate.”

“He was also very close.”

It is not hard to hit a large number of people if you are firing rapidly into a packed crowd. A full metal jacketed 9mm bullets could wound three or people if they were all in the line of fire. It is quite possible that he did the damage using one standard capacity magazine.

21 posted on 01/09/2011 7:55:38 AM PST by marktwain
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To: facedown

Yes I get your question that you have posted multiple times.

I do not personally know of any such ban since I only posted the article for discussion and I am a proud NRA member.

However since you ‘facedown’ are so concerned and may have your undies all bunched up over this I would strongly suggest that you contact the author of the article Mr. Robert Farago to explain what he wrote.

About Robert Farago
“Robert Farago is the Publisher and Managing Editor of The Truth About Guns (TTAG). He started the site to explore the ethics, morality, business, politics, culture, technology, practice, strategy, dangers and fun (yes fun) of guns. “

http://thetruthaboutguns.com/about/


22 posted on 01/09/2011 7:58:56 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: Iron Munro

PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!! LOL


23 posted on 01/09/2011 7:59:34 AM PST by JENINMO
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To: KeyLargo

That mag that holds 33 rounds was made for the Glock 18, and will fit other 9mm Glocks, and it does extend quite a bit out, and it can be legally bought in some states.


24 posted on 01/09/2011 7:59:34 AM PST by Eye of Unk (If your enemy is quick to anger, seek to irritate him. Sun Tzu, The Art of War.)
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To: facedown
It's funny, I just looked up on Google:

glock 19 banned

glock 19 banned in ca

glock 19 banned in california

glock 19 banned in mass

ALL had THIS page on the results.

Couldn't find ANY states banning Glock 19 or any other, or any state currently banning high capacity magazines any more. Said CA expired in 2004.

25 posted on 01/09/2011 8:02:55 AM PST by ConservativeChris
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To: facedown
"Glock sells magazines that hold 19 or 33 rounds, which are banned in some states (as is the gun)."

"In which of the 57 states are Glocks banned?"

According to the Glock website, they don't make a 10-round magazine for the Glock 19, so it would be prohibited for purchase in states that restrict capacity to 10 rounds by the hoi polloi (non-LEO). They do make a 15 round magazine, so a Glock 19 could be legal here in the People's Republic of New Jersey.

Glock Magazines

26 posted on 01/09/2011 8:04:39 AM PST by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: KeyLargo
If he did indeed have a drug conviction, and possibly other stuff on his record, he either lied on his NICs paperwork or the NIC system has more holes in it than a sieve.

Once again pointing out yet another FAILED FedGov bit of idiocy that shouldn't exist.

27 posted on 01/09/2011 8:06:49 AM PST by Dead Corpse (III%. The last line in the sand)
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To: UCANSEE2
I ain't worth beans with a handgun, but from 2-3 feet? Don't have to be skilled to manage that.

Folks need to cool their jets - everything I've read points to this being a nutbar who, because of misguided law enforcement/judicial policies, managed to have his criminal tendencies off the record so that he had no problem passing a Brady check. That is where the focus should be, but the MSM has their own axe to grind - we should not join then in grinding ours as well, and should stick to the facts as we know them.

28 posted on 01/09/2011 8:07:10 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: marktwain
It is not hard to hit a large number of people if you are firing rapidly into a packed crowd. A full metal jacketed 9mm bullets could wound three or people if they were all in the line of fire. It is quite possible that he did the damage using one standard capacity magazine.

We know the bullet that injured Giffords passed through her head. Shots to the body of others could have passed through and hit a second person.

And the perp ran when it was done. I'm inclined to think he had one mag, emptied it at close range in a restricted space where no one could escape, and then ran when it was done - to be tackled (kudos to those brave persons who had no idea if he had another weapon).

29 posted on 01/09/2011 8:09:57 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: KeyLargo

I never realized “journalism” was dead in this country until this weekend. I knew it was bad, but this reporting was shoddy and very second rate.


30 posted on 01/09/2011 8:11:41 AM PST by radioone (Proud to be an enemy of Obama)
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To: marktwain

They are interviewing a person who was there and helped hold the perp down after he was tackled. He said the perp was trying to load a second mag but ran at that point. Doesn’t sound like an expert. He says it was a semiauto with an extended clip, says 15-20 shots were fired. Sounds like the standard 15 round clip mentioned above.


31 posted on 01/09/2011 8:12:43 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: facedown

Just a note , but ,as of 1/1/11 you can’t buy ammo mail order in Californicateia.


32 posted on 01/09/2011 8:12:51 AM PST by Renegade
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To: radioone

“I never realized “journalism” was dead in this country until this weekend. I knew it was bad, but this reporting was shoddy and very second rate.”

Yes.

The so-called ‘experts’ and pundits will have a field day on the Sunday talking head shows.

As has been said. “if it bleeds it leads.”


33 posted on 01/09/2011 8:19:24 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: facedown

These seem to be legal in Calif. They update the list every year .

http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/safeguns_resp.asp


34 posted on 01/09/2011 8:20:04 AM PST by Renegade
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To: ConservativeChris
I think it's on the basis of magazine capacity -- and that Glock doesn't make a 10-round magazine for the Glock 19. I suppose you could buy a Glock 19, but couldn't shoot it unless someone made a 10-round aftermarket magazine. Glock sells the 9mm Glock 26 with a 10 round magazine standard, maybe they just ship the 26 to the "restricted" states to simplify things.

This may not be a complete list, but CA, NY, MA, NJ, MD, HI, OH and parts of IL have magazine capacity limits. New Jersey is 15, Ohio is 30 and Maryland is 20. Illinois "depends". I realize this is as stupid as banning bayonet lugs, but that's the laws.

35 posted on 01/09/2011 8:21:47 AM PST by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: Renegade

Try this one. Link seemed not to work.

http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/


36 posted on 01/09/2011 8:22:29 AM PST by Renegade
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To: KeyLargo
California law prohibits anybody from manufacturing, importing, keeping for sale, offering or exposing for sale, giving, or lending any large capacity magazine. What is “large capacity magazine”? California defines “large capacity magazine” as any feeding device with the capacity to accept more than ten rounds, but does not include any .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.

Nothing there about owning a large cap magazine, its my understanding its just illegal to use one. . . Someone correct me if Im wrong

37 posted on 01/09/2011 8:30:02 AM PST by ▀udda▀udd (7 days - 7 ways Guero >>> with a floating, shifting, ever changing persona.....)
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To: Sooth2222

The 10-round magazine for the Glock 26 won’t work in the Glock 19. The magazine is too short.

Glock does make (or used to make) 10-round magazines for the Glock 19. They are the same length as a regular magazine, but some of the internal space is filled so it will only hold ten. These magazines are available at glockworld.com (and other outlets).


38 posted on 01/09/2011 8:49:15 AM PST by Jordo
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To: ConservativeChris
I live in CA. Here, they have an “approved” handgun list.

The State safety tests the pistols and some gun manufacturers have gotten fed up with the red tape and don't sell certain models here. Of course, we all know that was the plan all along.

You can get Glocks here, but you can only have a 10 round magazine. 10 + 1 chambered = 11.

I have a little 9 MM, but I'm more of a Revolver kind of guy. Love my S & W Model 29. If I can't hit it with 6 shots, I should just pack it up and go home.

39 posted on 01/09/2011 8:58:44 AM PST by Kickass Conservative (Happy New Year!)
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To: dirtboy
The Washington Post story this morning quoted police sources as saying the shooter had a 30 (or 33) round magazine loaded, plus a second similar large capacity magazine in his pocket, as well as two conventional 15 round magazines. This would seem consistent with the witness account that the shooter seemed to be attempting to reload when he was tackled. It would also seem consistent with a large number of shots fired in a very short period of time in a "spray and pray" fashion.

Unusual for a press report, it actually referred to them as "magazines" and not as "clips" or "the doohickeys that hold the bullets."

40 posted on 01/09/2011 9:22:58 AM PST by blau993 (Fight Gerbil Swarming)
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To: bigbob

Yeah, it would be interesting to know where he procured this weapon. Did he buy it at a gun show or did someone provide it to him. The kid is a nut and I have to wonder if he would pass the background check to purchase one legally.


41 posted on 01/09/2011 9:46:16 AM PST by West Texas Chuck (US out of the UN - UN out of the US)
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To: West Texas Chuck

From another post it was said it was bought at a local Sportsmen Warehouse. That his application for it passed review.


42 posted on 01/09/2011 9:49:07 AM PST by Eye of Unk (If your enemy is quick to anger, seek to irritate him. Sun Tzu, The Art of War.)
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To: KeyLargo

You post is pointless. Firearms bans are different from mag bans.


43 posted on 01/09/2011 9:57:05 AM PST by Cobra64
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To: hockea

Yes. I’m a Sig Sauer man, but once shot a G19 with 33 round mag.


44 posted on 01/09/2011 10:00:11 AM PST by Cobra64
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To: Jordo
Glock 19 9mm 10rd 4th Gen. Mag

Wanna buy one? Go here: http://www.cdnninvestments.com/gl199mm104th.html

Or here: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=295773

45 posted on 01/09/2011 10:10:14 AM PST by Cobra64
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To: KeyLargo
It's also likely he was using ball ammo in the 9mm.

To shoot Giffords "through and through" the head with hollow point ammo is unlikely and would almost certainly resulted in death.

46 posted on 01/09/2011 11:54:35 AM PST by Mariner (USS Tarawa, VQ3, USS Benjamin Stoddert, NAVCAMS WestPac, 7th Fleet, Navcommsta Puget Sound)
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To: hockea

He could have used a 17 mag, but I imagine he used one of the 31 round glock mags made for the Glock 18 machine pistol.


47 posted on 01/10/2011 2:58:41 PM PST by Armedanddangerous (Montani Semper Liberi)
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To: Armedanddangerous
He could have used a 17 mag, but I imagine he used one of the 31 round glock mags made for the Glock 18 machine pistol.

Correct. And to which a *plus 2* accessory magazine bottom can be added, giving a total of 33 rounds, exactly the way my own Glock 17 is fitted. With two of the magazines taped end to end and side-by-side, allowing a change to the second magazine by pushing the mag catch, withdrawing the mags, a flip of the wrist and a reinsertion of the loaded mag.

Happily, the Tucson shooter didn't know that trick.


48 posted on 01/10/2011 5:18:16 PM PST by archy (I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous!)
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To: Mariner
It's also likely he was using ball ammo in the 9mm.

To shoot Giffords "through and through" the head with hollow point ammo is unlikely and would almost certainly resulted in death.

Tucson area radio news reports stated that he had purchased 100 rounds of ammunition from an area Wal-Mart store, after having been refused a similar purchase in another Wal-Mart location due to his odd demeanor.

Most of the 9mm ammo available at the Wally World outlets hereabouts is 115 grain ball ammo, less effective terminally but known for better feeding reliability. As you say, had he been using a hollowpoint jacketed police load, Giffords' injury likely would have been much worse. Which leads to two other questions: the shooter was reportedly at near arms-length distance to her: did he aim for her head thinking she might be wearing a bullet-resistant vest or other garment?

49 posted on 01/10/2011 5:25:07 PM PST by archy (I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous!)
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To: Sooth2222
I think it's on the basis of magazine capacity -- and that Glock doesn't make a 10-round magazine for the Glock 19. I suppose you could buy a Glock 19, but couldn't shoot it unless someone made a 10-round aftermarket magazine.

A 10-round magazine for your Glock 19 will run you about $20.86, suitable for those jurisdictions where larger capacity magazines are restricted.

They were quite common when the federal *assault weapons ban* were a limiting factor. Indeedm, that law also prevented American soldiers from purchasing personal spare magazines for their 15-round 9mm Beretta M9 handguns.

50 posted on 01/10/2011 5:34:02 PM PST by archy (I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous!)
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