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Buzz Builds for Kel-Tec KSG 12ga Twin-Tube Bullpup Shotgun
The Truth About Guns ^ | 12 January, 2011 | Robert Farago

Posted on 01/14/2011 5:08:26 AM PST by marktwain

TTAG loved it some Kel-Tech Sub-2000. Capt. John Raguso reckoned it was a far better choice for home defense than a shotgun: less recoil, more bullets, wieldy as a pen knife, foldable for bug-out duty, accurate, cheap, lovely! Throw in some frangible ammo to eliminate that pesky over-penetration problem and Bob’s your uncle. I’m getting one in 9mm, which may force me to switch from a Springfield XD-M to a Glock 19 (yes one of those), ’cause the Sub-2000 takes Glock mags. Anyway, the Sub-2000′s a hit. Not a runaway success, but a solid hit. But this, THIS is monster . . .

14+1 rounds from a compact shotgun? As our KSG post viewing stats and Oleg Volk’s fascination [below] prove, the buzz is building for this ballistic bad boy. We’ll make a beeline for it at SHOT. [Click here and here for more KSG gun porn]


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; bullpup; keltec; shotgun
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There is a good picture at the link. Perhaps someone can post it. A very interesting concept.
1 posted on 01/14/2011 5:08:28 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

That’s sweet. 14+1 rounds of 12 gauge in compact system and people are complaining cuz it isn’t semi-auto? Give me a break. That thing is the baddest shotgun since the street sweeper. I’m getting one. I have been shopping for a new shotgun. This is it. How fast do you really need to shoot 15 rounds of 12 gauge 4 buck anyways? That being said, when the semi-auto version comes out, I’m getting one of those too.


2 posted on 01/14/2011 5:14:28 AM PST by RC one (What!!!!)
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To: marktwain
Make it available in 20 gauge, and I'll buy one. I think 12 gauge recoil in a weapon that short would be a bitch to control well. I think the higher number of shots more than offsets the smaller gauge.

In 20, this could be a superb home defense choice for women.

3 posted on 01/14/2011 5:17:06 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: marktwain

Hmmm...

4 posted on 01/14/2011 5:18:03 AM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: marktwain

5 posted on 01/14/2011 5:18:24 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: marktwain

Dangit - looks like it won’t let me link the photo. Anyone care to copy it to Photobucket?


6 posted on 01/14/2011 5:19:51 AM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: Charles Martel

yea beat me by 21 seconds


7 posted on 01/14/2011 5:20:55 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: marktwain

8 posted on 01/14/2011 5:23:30 AM PST by doodad
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To: marktwain

9 posted on 01/14/2011 5:24:11 AM PST by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: marktwain

10 posted on 01/14/2011 5:24:28 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: marktwain

11 posted on 01/14/2011 5:24:56 AM PST by Red Badger (Whenever these vermin call you an 'idiot', you can be sure that you are doing something right.)
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To: marktwain

What’s the $$$$??.....


12 posted on 01/14/2011 5:26:23 AM PST by Red Badger (Whenever these vermin call you an 'idiot', you can be sure that you are doing something right.)
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To: marktwain

OK...that will be worth a look. Nifty firearm; limited application, but robust firepower, for sure.


13 posted on 01/14/2011 5:26:33 AM PST by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion. 01-20-2013: Change we can look forward to.)
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To: marktwain

what’s OAL on that? might be illegal in MI.


14 posted on 01/14/2011 5:28:21 AM PST by absolootezer0 (2x divorced tattooed pierced harley hatin meghan mccain luvin' REAL beer drinkin' smoker ..what?)
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To: marktwain

bet it kicks like a mule.


15 posted on 01/14/2011 5:28:43 AM PST by camle (keep an open mind and someone will fill it full of something for you)
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To: marktwain

16 posted on 01/14/2011 5:29:17 AM PST by Syntyr (Happiness is two at low eight!)
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To: Wonder Warthog
FWIW, there are lower-recoil 12-gauge loads that are suited to home defense. The Aguila 1 3/4" Mini 12-ga shotgun shells are one such example. Aguila's "Minibuck" shot loads are stuffed with 7 pellets of No. 4 Buck and 4 pellets of No. 1 Buck at 1200 fps. Not all repeating shotgun designs feed the stubby little things well, but it's an option that should be explored if recoil is an issue.

Also, are not standard 20-gauge shells the same length (2-3/4", minimum) as 12-gauge? The Aguila minis might add one shot to the tube, but in general, 12s and 20s load the same.

17 posted on 01/14/2011 5:29:20 AM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: marktwain

For later. Thanks.


18 posted on 01/14/2011 5:29:47 AM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Red Badger

So far, nothing but question marks where the photos are supposed to be.


19 posted on 01/14/2011 5:30:02 AM PST by Drawsing (The fool shows his annoyance at once. The prudent man overlooks an insult. (Proverbs 12:16))
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To: Drawsing

Are you logged in?............


20 posted on 01/14/2011 5:30:55 AM PST by Red Badger (Whenever these vermin call you an 'idiot', you can be sure that you are doing something right.)
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To: Red Badger

Now post 16 has photos, but it is the only one so far.


21 posted on 01/14/2011 5:34:34 AM PST by Drawsing (The fool shows his annoyance at once. The prudent man overlooks an insult. (Proverbs 12:16))
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To: RC one

” That thing is the baddest shotgun since the street sweeper. I’m getting one.”

I am going to buy two or three of them. I suspect they will quickly get on the Brady campaigns list of Evil Black Assault High Power High Capacity Machine Guns!


22 posted on 01/14/2011 5:35:34 AM PST by Syntyr (Happiness is two at low eight!)
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To: marktwain

Yes, nice concept, but the video doesn’t do much to impress me. Looks like the action on the pump could use some work. Looks like it’s kind of stiff and clunky. My inexpensive Mossberg is much smoother and faster.


23 posted on 01/14/2011 5:36:28 AM PST by edpc (It's Kräusened)
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To: marktwain

$880.00 MSRP from Gun Genie. Ouch. It has an accessory rail. That means you gotta buy accessories. As in, ghost sights, fore-end grip, flashlight, laser, bayonet, sling and the like. $$$


24 posted on 01/14/2011 5:38:18 AM PST by BigBlueJon ("And shepherds we shall be....For Thee, my Lord, for Thee....")
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To: Syntyr

I suspect you are right.


25 posted on 01/14/2011 5:39:22 AM PST by RC one (What!!!!)
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To: camle; All
“bet it kicks like a mule.”

I will reserve judgment. That straight-line stock tends to reduce perceived recoil.

26 posted on 01/14/2011 5:39:32 AM PST by marktwain
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To: Drawsing

Some sites will not allow their photos to be “hot-linked”.
That is probably why the Red X of Failure is showing up.
I see all the photos...............


27 posted on 01/14/2011 5:40:02 AM PST by Red Badger (Whenever these vermin call you an 'idiot', you can be sure that you are doing something right.)
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To: marktwain

wow that would be perfect for home defense, I wonder how the feed mechanism indexes between the two tubes?


28 posted on 01/14/2011 5:40:39 AM PST by henry_reardon
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To: marktwain

What’s it cost?


29 posted on 01/14/2011 5:42:30 AM PST by ontap
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To: marktwain

EVERY gun is a compromise of sorts. Shotguns usually run with greatest power and speed, whilst giving up range, accuracy, ammo capacity, etc.
This gun adds concealibility (for a longarm) and ammo capacity at the cost of SPEED, and perhaps (shotgun) accuracy.
I’ll stick with my r/s Remington 870 for a while.


30 posted on 01/14/2011 5:49:30 AM PST by Flintlock
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To: BigBlueJon
$880.00 MSRP from Gun Genie. Ouch.

Ouch is right,, six months ago, I purchased a 12ga pump from WW, Mossberg Maverick, $157+tax. I bought an old Mossberg 500 plain barrel, cut it back to 18.5" measured with a dowel, JB welded a plastic BB on the end,, goes bang the last 50 tries, no problem.

Now, for less then $200, I have a hunting/defense shotgun, (just switch barrels as needed)

Must admit, the KelTec looks cool though.

31 posted on 01/14/2011 6:04:26 AM PST by MrPiper
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To: Flintlock

Wouldn’t a home defense weapon need as wide a pattern as possible? Why not a sort of blunderbus barrel end? Worked well for our forefathers at the cabin door.


32 posted on 01/14/2011 6:10:29 AM PST by fella (.He that followeth after vain persons shall have poverty enough." Pv.28:19')
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To: Charles Martel; Wonder Warthog

Hornady TAP (Tactical Application Police) 12 gauge 00 buck/low recoil. I use them in my Mossberg with pistol grips.


33 posted on 01/14/2011 6:14:54 AM PST by Second Amendment First
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To: fella

The flared “blunderbuss” barrel doesn’t actually increase the size of the spread.
Looks nifty, though.


34 posted on 01/14/2011 6:15:07 AM PST by Little Ray (The Gods of the Copybook Heading, with terror and slaughter return!)
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To: henry_reardon

There is a selector that allows you to choose between each tube. Center selection is no feed.


35 posted on 01/14/2011 6:21:37 AM PST by Durus (The distance between us has grown, and I struggle to quantify it. Windage adjustments are done.)
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To: ontap

MSRP is around 800. A lot of people (such as myself) that never really liked pumps find themselves inexplicably drawn to it. Supply and demand could drive the price up.


36 posted on 01/14/2011 6:23:52 AM PST by Durus (The distance between us has grown, and I struggle to quantify it. Windage adjustments are done.)
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To: Durus
There is a selector that allows you to choose between each tube.

That's what caught my attention....a very useful feature.

37 posted on 01/14/2011 6:30:04 AM PST by Niteranger68 (I am in the party of "HELL NO"!)
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To: Niteranger68

Selectable slugs vs. buckshot for defense, upland game vs. turkey loads for hunting.

Yep, that is interesting.


38 posted on 01/14/2011 6:35:42 AM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: marktwain

Pardon me folks but just what does this have over a Saiga 12 which is semi-auto with choice of 5,10,20 rd feeds? Ya, it looks cooler than a stock Saiga but I just don’t get the excitement.


39 posted on 01/14/2011 7:01:46 AM PST by bossmechanic (If all else fails, hit it with a hammer)
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To: dangerdoc
I really like KT for their design creativity. It's just their manufacturing process where things get a little out of whack. I have one of the newer PF-9’s (bought after a few years of bugs were worked out) yet the factory bluing looked like a mild case hardened job. Although I believe KT uses their early buying customers as beta testers, their customer service is top notch. Plus their pricing is quite reasonable.
40 posted on 01/14/2011 7:06:37 AM PST by Niteranger68 (I am in the party of "HELL NO"!)
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; wku man; SLB; ...
Friday Fun Thread.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

41 posted on 01/14/2011 7:15:39 AM PST by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: marktwain

Price?


42 posted on 01/14/2011 7:16:43 AM PST by verity
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To: bossmechanic

Looks to be a lot cheaper than the Saiga


43 posted on 01/14/2011 7:35:52 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
You can get a Saiga 12ga for around $500. This K-T retails for over $800.

Double check your math... ;-)

44 posted on 01/14/2011 7:41:40 AM PST by Dead Corpse (III%. The last line in the sand)
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To: Charles Martel
"FWIW, there are lower-recoil 12-gauge loads that are suited to home defense. The Aguila 1 3/4" Mini 12-ga shotgun shells are one such example. Aguila's "Minibuck" shot loads are stuffed with 7 pellets of No. 4 Buck and 4 pellets of No. 1 Buck at 1200 fps. Not all repeating shotgun designs feed the stubby little things well, but it's an option that should be explored if recoil is an issue."

Good to know. And possibly one argument in favor of the pump over semi-auto.

"Also, are not standard 20-gauge shells the same length (2-3/4", minimum) as 12-gauge? The Aguila minis might add one shot to the tube, but in general, 12s and 20s load the same."

Agreed, but my point with the 20 gauge is lower recoil and better control of the short weapon, not number of rounds available. It's fairly obvious from the video that recoil is pretty stiff.

45 posted on 01/14/2011 7:42:54 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Second Amendment First
"Hornady TAP (Tactical Application Police) 12 gauge 00 buck/low recoil. I use them in my Mossberg with pistol grips."

Also good to know, but I am not convinced that 00 buck is the best load for home defense. Once upon a time many years ago, I read an article about a "great white hunter" type who led big-game safaris, and had to act as "stopper shooter" in case the client failed a kill. He said that jaguars were the most dangerous game, and he chose No.1 buck, as the greater number of wound channels gave more blood-loss and quicker kill/stop.

That logic made sense to me.

46 posted on 01/14/2011 7:43:35 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Charles Martel

“The Aguila minis might add one shot to the tube”

They do better than that. I can get 6 minis in my 4 shot Mossy 500 tube.


47 posted on 01/14/2011 7:57:08 AM PST by green iguana
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To: Wonder Warthog

I think it all depends on range.

At 15 feet, bird shot is as good as buck.

As range increases, the larger buck shot will retain more energy. There is probably a middle range where No. 1 is better than 00.

It sounds like a fun day at the range figuring out which is better at what range.


48 posted on 01/14/2011 7:58:49 AM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: fella

I fear this will go the way of the street sweeper. As for a spreader tube, the ATF banned, as a DD, the Magazine fed (I forget the name), of several years ago because the muzzle was too large. I want one, but You know Chill Penury.


49 posted on 01/14/2011 8:00:25 AM PST by barb-tex (What else did you expect from the likes of 0? BTW, What ever happened to Rhodesia?, Oh, yes, Zimbabw)
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To: Wonder Warthog

The difference between 00 and #1 is what, 8 balls compared to 10? I don’t know it makes that much difference; individual preference I suppose. The low recoil allows faster recovery for followup shots.

Interesting story about using buckshot as a dangerous game stopper. Bleed out is a slow way to kill a charging animal. I would think the fastest stop would be brain, spinal cord or shoulder/heart shot. Teddy Roosevelt killed a jaguar with a .30-06.


50 posted on 01/14/2011 8:12:04 AM PST by Second Amendment First
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