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California may have the highest costs for charging electric vehicles
Los Angeles Times ^ | January 14, 2011 | Tiffany Hsu

Posted on 01/16/2011 8:39:26 PM PST by Rabin

Electric-car makers and utilities said most owners will probably charge their vehicles at night when the rates are lower. But because of the tiered rate system, their electricity bills will still probably be high… One plug-in hybrid Volt would increase the average household's electrical usage 60%...

California households pay steeper rates for their electricity compared with other states -- about 35% more than the national average...

(Excerpt) Read more at articles.latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; US: California
KEYWORDS: electricvehicles
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An unfortunate reality is coming to the front. The O so clean/green plug-it-in, must have an origin. California's path usually leads the nation
1 posted on 01/16/2011 8:39:31 PM PST by Rabin
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To: Rabin

Assuming ANY ONE buys them.


2 posted on 01/16/2011 8:41:05 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

Gosh, adding electric cars to an already strapped grid?

Who could have possibly seen this coming?


3 posted on 01/16/2011 8:43:04 PM PST by BenKenobi
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To: Rabin

California will raise the cost of anything and nothing to cover the government shortfall if you use it or if you don’t use it you will still pay.


4 posted on 01/16/2011 8:43:29 PM PST by handy old one (If you play in nature be prepared to be played with by nature!)
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To: Rabin
California households pay steeper rates for their electricity compared with other states -- about 35% more than the national average...

Gee I wonder why? And they want AZ to take their pollution and build the power plants over here in our desert. I have some choice words for Californians that refuse to build their own electricity plants because they want CLEAN air and the rest of us can just suck it up. There is also their desire to have all GREEN energy which is the biggest myth on the planet.
5 posted on 01/16/2011 8:44:19 PM PST by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: Rabin
Demand on electricity increases and no new power plants. California is trying to dismantle damns and surely will fight Nuke Power so where does that leave us? Brown and Black outs.
6 posted on 01/16/2011 8:44:46 PM PST by Cisco Nix (Because the left is ugly and the right is beautiful.)
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To: Rabin

A lot of liberal tree huggers will rush out to buy one.

And then figuratively later on down the road will find out what a power addict they will become.

Power thefts will be on the rise, I can just imagine certain individuals able to secretly tap into power transmissions lines and starting a black market charging station.

A car speak-easy, drop it off for a cheap recharge?


7 posted on 01/16/2011 8:45:32 PM PST by Eye of Unk (If your enemy is quick to anger, seek to irritate him. Sun Tzu, The Art of War.)
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To: Cheerio

Yup. Those idiots won’t build new new nuclear power plants. As far they are concerned, electricity happens when you plug it in and flip the power switch.


8 posted on 01/16/2011 8:46:09 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

Everything costs more in California.


9 posted on 01/16/2011 8:47:20 PM PST by Roklok
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To: goldstategop

I have met my West Coast family and some were impressive, others not so much. I am going to invite them to the Redneck Riviera this summer and let them decide.


10 posted on 01/16/2011 8:48:55 PM PST by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: Rabin

When “Moonbeam Brown” was governor first time around he did everything he could to shut down the Nuclear Power Industry in California. He felt that efficiency could solve all the problems. Nothing wrong with efficiency but the buffoon never accounted for California’s population doubling between the time he left office his first stint as governor and when he went in the second time. Yes, the population doubled! Now there is no way you can handle that increased demand with simple energy savings. Solar and Wind are not gonna work and will be VERY expensive. How are you gonna charge up your Chevy Volt at night with energy from solar collectors? Guess these geniuses haven’t figured that out.


11 posted on 01/16/2011 8:51:38 PM PST by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough.)
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To: Rabin

Someone is going to have to burn a lot of coal to provide the electricity to charge up those “clean” puppies. Producing electricity is not cheap.


12 posted on 01/16/2011 8:53:35 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer ("New laws are always a "good idea" until the first time you have to enforce them." - Unknown)
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To: truthguy
Yes, the population doubled! Now there is no way you can handle that increased demand with simple energy savings

Sure there is...if 50% of the population leaves the state. This just might happen, like it did in Detroit.

13 posted on 01/16/2011 8:54:32 PM PST by Prokopton
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To: Rabin

Just for the hell of it I called a local electricial contractor to get an estimate for the installation of a plug in charge station at my home. Hang on folks — $2850+!
I don’t think so! Screw the Greenies and Al Bore!


14 posted on 01/16/2011 8:54:59 PM PST by TaMoDee
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To: Rabin
California households pay steeper rates for their electricity compared with other states — about 35% more than the national average, according to the study.

Well, that is simple to fix: pass a law...

Later, pass another law, and implement new regulations, that the utilities MUST keep generating and selling...

Then pass another law....

15 posted on 01/16/2011 8:56:40 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (Made in America, by proud American citizens, in 1946.)
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To: BenKenobi
"Gosh, adding electric cars to an already strapped grid? Who could have possibly seen this coming?"

Virtually no one in the State of California, apparently...

16 posted on 01/16/2011 8:57:04 PM PST by Redbob (W.W.J.B.D.: "What Would Jack Bauer Do?")
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To: Rabin

I have always wondered about the batteries. If say after a year or two have they degraded enough so that you don’t get near the milage range that a set of new batteries would. Say the range new is 200 miles after a full charge. Maybe after two years and a lot of charges would the range be down to say 150 miles?


17 posted on 01/16/2011 8:58:26 PM PST by Parley Baer
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To: Redbob

California, its new state motto:

The Brownout State.


18 posted on 01/16/2011 9:00:03 PM PST by Eye of Unk
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To: Rabin

1 HP is roughly equal to 750 watts
To drive the Volt at highway speeds takes say 10 HP minimum, or 7500 watts.
You run it for an hour, you’ll have to put that much energy back into it, 7500 watt-hours.

That’s the equivalent of running your 150 watt outdoor light for 50 hours (!) - and these are VERY conservative figures that don’t take charging efficiencies (or lack thereof) into account.


19 posted on 01/16/2011 9:04:17 PM PST by Redbob (W.W.J.B.D.: "What Would Jack Bauer Do?")
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To: FlingWingFlyer

> Producing electricity is not cheap.<

burning coal —> cheap electricity


20 posted on 01/16/2011 9:07:35 PM PST by Talf
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To: Redbob

A more likely scenario is that all those figures are doubled: 20 HP -> 15 kW-hr per hour of operation.
At California’s 2010 average residential electricity rate of 15 cents per kW-hr. this is then about $2.25 per hour of operation.
Not a bad deal, actually.


21 posted on 01/16/2011 9:10:49 PM PST by Redbob (W.W.J.B.D.: "What Would Jack Bauer Do?")
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To: Prokopton; truthguy
Gee, I wonder how much generation capacity would be freed up, if they deported all (or even most) of their beloved undocument immigrants AKA crimaliens?
22 posted on 01/16/2011 9:13:23 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (Made in America, by proud American citizens, in 1946.)
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To: Rabin

FYI:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2656905/posts
California may have the highest costs for charging electric vehicles


23 posted on 01/16/2011 9:13:52 PM PST by calcowgirl ("Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life" --Lindzen)
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To: Rabin
During some hot summer month the extra electrical load of
charging cars is going to help bring down the power grid
for a few days until the neighborhoods start to reek of
rotting food. I who they're going to blame
then for the inconvenience.
24 posted on 01/16/2011 9:14:50 PM PST by clearcarbon
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To: Rabin

Imagine when a whole flock of them arrive in a business’ parking lot in the morning and expect to charge up for free for the commute home in the evening.


25 posted on 01/16/2011 9:18:54 PM PST by NonValueAdded (Palin 2012: don't retreat, just restock [chg'd to comply w/ The Civility in Discourse Act of 2011])
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To: TaMoDee
Just for the hell of it I called a local electricial contractor to get an estimate for the installation of a plug in charge station at my home. Hang on folks — $2850+!

Just plug it into the electric clothes dryer socket,,,usually 220V.

26 posted on 01/16/2011 9:20:05 PM PST by spokeshave (Islamics and Democrats unite to cut off Adam Smith's invisible hand)
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To: Redbob

Only if you are the only one in your area with one. Wait until every tree hugger in the neighbourhood is charging.


27 posted on 01/16/2011 9:28:08 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: NonValueAdded

cities here in cal are already setting up charging stations, gee I wonder who is going to be paying for the elect used......


28 posted on 01/16/2011 9:30:06 PM PST by markman46 (engage brain before using keyboard!!!)
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To: Redbob

Also, the state and Feds will find a way to make up for the drop in fuel tax revenue (Think “seperate meter for your car charging station with a special electric car rate per kW Hour.”).


29 posted on 01/16/2011 9:31:40 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: spokeshave
Just for the hell of it I called a local electricial contractor to get an estimate for the installation of a plug in charge station at my home. Hang on folks — $2850+! Just plug it into the electric clothes dryer socket,,,usually 220V.

I'm pretty sure it uses a special much higher amperage outlet (along with heavier gauge wiring) and that the plug from the Volt is of a different design from electric dryer plugs, and could not be plugged into a dryer outlet. Even a small homeowners type arc welder you can buy at Home Depot will not plug into a dryer outlet. They require a heavy amperage outlet and special wiring.
30 posted on 01/16/2011 10:18:13 PM PST by BansheeBill
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To: NonValueAdded
Imagine when a whole flock of them arrive in a business’ parking lot in the morning and expect to charge up for free for the commute home in the evening.

My building's parking contractor has been working with the on-site facility manager to get ahead of the curve. They've placed solid cover plates over all the wall outlets on the parking levels.

31 posted on 01/16/2011 10:21:15 PM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: ApplegateRanch
California help with utility bills and electric bills

20% discount to low income Californians.....

32 posted on 01/16/2011 10:37:12 PM PST by MamaDearest
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To: Redbob
your assuming 100% efficiency.

746 watts = 1 Hp.

Battery chargers are less then 65% efficient due to poor
power factor and harmonic distortion.

Batteries are not 100% electrochemical converters.
More on the order of 60% - 70%.
That's why they get so damn hot when you charge them.
You can not put 1kw into a battery and get 1kw
out. Not never.
Electrical distribution losses from the grid to the
chargers can easily be 8%.
High power chargers will have 3 - 5 % power loss just
in local wiring alone.

Traction Inverters tend to be around 85 -90 % efficient.

Add it up.
Carnot's law will not be broken.

33 posted on 01/16/2011 10:37:32 PM PST by DaveTesla (You can fool some of the people some of the time......)
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To: Rabin
California households pay steeper rates for their electricity compared with other states -- about 35% more than the national average...

Average retail price of electricity to ultimate customers by end-use sector, by state (2009)

34 posted on 01/16/2011 10:38:16 PM PST by MamaDearest
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To: Rabin

In short, you just can’t win.


35 posted on 01/16/2011 10:39:26 PM PST by Nowhere Man (General James Mattoon Scott, where are you when we need you? We need a regime change.)
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To: TaMoDee

But the good people of California voted for liberalism so
they must desire to be poor.

Lemmings over the cliff.


36 posted on 01/16/2011 10:39:30 PM PST by ChiMark
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To: Rabin

They’ll save the same amount by banning incandescent light bulbs? (sarc off)

Wasn’t the whole point of banning light bulbs to save on the generation of coal fired electricity?


37 posted on 01/17/2011 12:08:08 AM PST by Hypo2
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To: Talf

The Coal Powered Volt.


38 posted on 01/17/2011 12:23:51 AM PST by screaminsunshine (Surfers Rule)
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To: Eye of Unk

“Power thefts will be on the rise”

The state of California will have the increased cost of patrolling high volt towers, looking for pirate wires run parallel to the high voltage source stealing inductively induced electricity from said high volt towers.

Did I just say that? Ma bad!


39 posted on 01/17/2011 12:35:30 AM PST by Puckster
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To: ChiMark

“Lemmings over the cliff.”

A falacy that Californians may prove right?

News at 11.


40 posted on 01/17/2011 12:37:37 AM PST by Puckster
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To: MamaDearest

...but who will pay for the (already heavily gov’t subsidized) EV’s for those low income Californians to plug in?

That discount is, though, a typical socialistic ‘answer’ to the ‘problem’.


41 posted on 01/17/2011 12:37:44 AM PST by ApplegateRanch (Made in America, by proud American citizens, in 1946.)
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To: BansheeBill
“Even a small homeowners type arc welder you can buy at Home Depot will not plug into a dryer outlet. They require a heavy amperage outlet and special wiring.”

Your such a fun sucker with your astuteness. (sarc)

42 posted on 01/17/2011 12:41:20 AM PST by Puckster
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To: Redbob
and these are VERY conservative figures that don’t take charging efficiencies (or lack thereof) into account.

1st start with the conversion of coal or natural gas into electricity, with natural gas being the most efficient at 50% of the possible energy converted into electricity. Then add in the following losses, 6.5% for transmission, 3% for transformer and 10% for the charger.

43 posted on 01/17/2011 1:38:53 AM PST by Lockbox (`)
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To: Redbob
At California’s 2010 average residential electricity rate of 15 cents per kW-hr. this is then about $2.25 per hour of operation. Not a bad deal, actually.

Wait until they start to charge everyone for the higher transformer failure rate!

"The other half of the equation, today’s local electric distribution system, probably wouldn’t be able to cope with a nation of newly purchased EVs all driving home from work and plugging in during peak demand hours. Why? Take the transformer or power pole near your home, for example. That transformer may serve 4 to 6 homes and have very little reserve capacity for reliable operation when additional demand (like charging electric vehicles) is added. Each electric vehicle roughly doubles each homes’ peak power demand, so if everyone buys an electric car we’re either going to need bigger local transformers, or more of them. Additionally, round-the-clock demand prevents the transformers from cooling down at night, something which could result in premature transformer failures and local blackouts".

http://www.beyondthelightswitch.com/blog/electric-vehicles

44 posted on 01/17/2011 1:47:14 AM PST by Lockbox (`)
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To: Rabin

You have to wonder why after all these years of screaming how to lower your electric bills; they want to increase them 3 fold. Of course, there is a high chance of fire and you can only go so far.

Ah, what a deal. /sarc


45 posted on 01/17/2011 3:04:06 AM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Lockbox

They don’t think about the details.


46 posted on 01/17/2011 3:05:29 AM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Rabin
Yet this is all compensated by a greater sense of "self esteem", yes?

Anyone? Anyone? Buehler?

47 posted on 01/17/2011 4:45:48 AM PST by Caipirabob ( Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Rabin

When posters were pushing these here on FR, I kept asking “how much will it cost to charge it?”... I never, NEVER got an answer. All crap answers... “it likely will be comparable to what you pay for gas and maintenance” or some hogwash like that.

LOL. I’ll stick with gas and NOT increase my electric bill by $150 thank you.

oh yeah... then there’s battery replacement... I couldn’t get an answer on that either. Every 3 yrs “or so”, you’ll need another battery for $10,000. crappy electric pos ars


48 posted on 01/17/2011 5:11:13 AM PST by Principled (Get the capital back! NRST!)
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To: Parley Baer
I have always wondered about the batteries.

I have too......would you want to buy a 4 or 5 year old used Volt that has the original batteries?

49 posted on 01/17/2011 5:16:51 AM PST by Hot Tabasco (The only thing Super Glue is good for is gluing your fingers together.....)
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To: DaveTesla

to post 33

so what?

coal costs about one-tenth
as much as crude oil


50 posted on 01/17/2011 6:05:11 AM PST by Talf
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