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Influential Right-Wing Leader Tells Defense and Cultural Conservatives to Take a Hike
Resolute Con / Contra Con ^ | 1/24/11 | John Guardiano

Posted on 01/24/2011 12:54:08 PM PST by John R. Guardiano

...Foreign Policy magazine’s John Rogin reports that Grover Norquist wants to “‘start a discussion’ about leaving Afghanistan among the ‘center-right.’” He wants to “educate the conservative masses about the costs of the war in the hopes of shifting conservative opinion” and effecting an American defeat.

Oh sure, Norquist didn’t say he wants America to lose in Afghanistan, but he might as well have: because that’s what an American withdrawal would mean: an American defeat...

The conservative coalition, of course, includes three distinct types of conservatives: defense and national security hawks, social and cultural cons, and economic or free-market conservatives.

Norquist is decidedly in the latter camp and seemingly antagonistic of late to cultural and defense cons.

Thus, in addition to suggesting that it might be OK to lose in Afghanistan, Norquist also has joined the advisory board of the homosexual advocacy organization, GOProud, which seeks special rights and privileges for lesbians and homosexuals.

But not even David Frum, the supposed beta noire of “real conservatives,” wants to jettison two-thirds of the conservative coalition.

Frum instead wants to modulate conservatives’ political approach, not abandon conservatism altogether. Frum, in fact, is a conservative, albeit an iconoclastic and unconventional conservative.

Here’s my proposal to which I welcome Norquists’ response: How about a “conversation” about raising taxes to help reduce the deficit?

Or maybe we can have a “dialogue” about the “public option”? Or better yet, what do you say we “talk about” how to enforce “fair trade” on China, Chile and Mexico?

Now, I’m not saying we should do any of these things, mind you; I’m only saying that we conservatives need to start talking about these things!

Of course, I rather doubt Norquist would welcome a “conversation” about these matters. He’d rightly say these subjects are off limits...

(Excerpt) Read more at johnrguardiano.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: davidfrum; grovernorquist; homosexuality; libertarian; militaryanddefense; norquist; rinolist
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The article the right-wing press doesn't want you to read, but which you absolutely must read: Libertarians are trying to hijack the movement.
1 posted on 01/24/2011 12:54:14 PM PST by John R. Guardiano
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To: John R. Guardiano
Frum instead wants to modulate conservatives’ political approach, not abandon conservatism altogether. Frum, in fact, is a conservative, albeit an iconoclastic and unconventional conservative.

I appreciate the author's attempt to inject humor into his otherwise dry topic, but I think he needs to work on making his punchlines snappier.

2 posted on 01/24/2011 12:58:06 PM PST by eclecticEel (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness: 7/4/1776 - 3/21/2010)
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To: John R. Guardiano
(Excerpt) Read more at johnrguardiano.com ...

Why not just post it here?

3 posted on 01/24/2011 12:59:06 PM PST by humblegunner (Blogger Overlord)
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To: John R. Guardiano

Norquist has been pushing this for years. He has also been subverting the War on Terror since day one, by helping CAIR infiltrate teh GOP and Bush administration. His wife is a Palestinian Muslim, and he likely converted.


4 posted on 01/24/2011 12:59:27 PM PST by rmlew (You want change? Vote for the most conservative electable in your state or district.)
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To: John R. Guardiano

FUGN!


5 posted on 01/24/2011 12:59:46 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Rebellion is brewing!! Nuke the corrupt commie bastards to HELL!!)
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To: John R. Guardiano

One might argue that a conservative application of military power must be an effective one.


6 posted on 01/24/2011 12:59:49 PM PST by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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To: John R. Guardiano

Norquist is married to a Palestinian Muslim.

Not exactly the person I want to take advice from these days.


7 posted on 01/24/2011 12:59:49 PM PST by Carley (IDEOLOGY TRUMPS FACTS IN THE LEFT'S QUEST FOR POWER)
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To: John R. Guardiano

The ‘movement’, was hijacked years ago. And it wasn’t by Norquist.


8 posted on 01/24/2011 12:59:59 PM PST by Palter (If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it. ~ Mark Twain)
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To: John R. Guardiano
Which reminds me....I saw that Ron Paul won second place in the straw poll in NH. They are up to their spamming ways again.

The only Ron Paul fans I know are the ones riding around here in Austin Texas with bumper stickers "911 was in Inside Job" next to their "Ron Paul 08" stickers.

9 posted on 01/24/2011 1:00:13 PM PST by lormand (A Government who robs Peter to pay Paul, will always have the support of Paul)
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To: John R. Guardiano
The war in Afghanistan really is becoming a farce. We need to clearly and unambiguously define victory, establish and support a strategy to quickly, decisively and permanently achieve it and then come home. If not, just walk away.

When you park the B-52s and begin unilaterally respecting the borders of countries that exist only because we support them you really aren't interested in winning.

10 posted on 01/24/2011 1:01:35 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: Jim Robinson

Agree


11 posted on 01/24/2011 1:01:54 PM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: John R. Guardiano

Norquist certainly is no conservative. He supports the homosexual agenda and has known ties to Muslim extremists. Does he even qualify as a Libertarian?

He is on the board of the NRA too. Has anyone noticed the nosedive into conservative political irrelevancy the NRA has taken lately under his influence?

The sooner real conservatives jettison poseurs like Norquist from the conservative movement, the better.


12 posted on 01/24/2011 1:02:20 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: John R. Guardiano

Norquist is married to a Muslim woman and is a total shill for Islamists, apologizing for them and working for the advancement of their way of life in America. Real conservatives need to back away from this sell-out and his “conservative” organization (read: phony front for Islam) - Americans for Tax Reform.


13 posted on 01/24/2011 1:02:34 PM PST by Dr. Thorne (Buy Gold and Guns Now!)
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To: humblegunner

HG nice job. Post number 3.


14 posted on 01/24/2011 1:03:41 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (V for Vendetta.)
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To: John R. Guardiano
Oh sure, Norquist didn’t say he wants America to lose in Afghanistan, but he might as well have: because that’s what an American withdrawal would mean: an American defeat

What garbage. There's plenty of folks on the right, including myself, that think we should get the hell out of Afghanistan.

I don't see the sense in staying any longer or sacrificing one more life, especially considering who the current Commander in Chief is. Can anyone claim that Obama is serious about any kind of end game? The man refuses to use the word 'victory' for crying out loud.

Bring the troops home from Afghanistan.

15 posted on 01/24/2011 1:04:56 PM PST by GunRunner (10 Years of Freeping...)
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To: John R. Guardiano

“Influential Right Wing Leader” is a bit of a stretch. Norquist is just another talking head editorialist/opinion writer. And one who’s pretty far down the totem pole in terms of influence and popularity. Rush, for example, could generate more conservative action and support on an issue in five minutes than Norquist could in five years.


16 posted on 01/24/2011 1:11:00 PM PST by circlecity
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To: John R. Guardiano
Grover Norquist isn't anybody's "influential leader."

He's just another person who wants influence -- just another wannabe.

He can't purge anybody any more than you or I could.

My fellow wannabe, it's hard not to notice that you're talking about Norquist wanting to put "defense and cultural cons" on the back of bus, but the evidence you provide doesn't have much to do with social or cultural conservatism.

Is that manipulation on your part? Are you trying to tie your own agenda into something much bigger to overcome objections to it?

17 posted on 01/24/2011 1:12:22 PM PST by x
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To: circlecity

I wish you were right, but alas, Norquist is an extraordinarily influential Washington, D.C.-Capitol Hill activist.

(He’s not an editorialist or an opinion writer, though he occasionally pens an editorial or an opinion piece every now and then.)

Norquist may not have Rush’s cultural clout, but he has tremendous D.C./Capitol Hill clout and influence.


18 posted on 01/24/2011 1:14:10 PM PST by John R. Guardiano
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To: John R. Guardiano

Are those Wednesday meetings still well attended or has he lost some there also?


19 posted on 01/24/2011 1:17:34 PM PST by Seeking the truth (0cents.com - Anti-Obama stuff here!)
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To: John R. Guardiano
"Norquist may not have Rush’s cultural clout, but he has tremendous D.C./Capitol Hill clout and influence."

Given what I've read above regaring his positions maybe not so much anymore in the Tea Party era. But, hearing what you disclosed, I'll bet he's got McCain, Lugar and McConnell on his speed dial.

20 posted on 01/24/2011 1:17:51 PM PST by circlecity
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To: John R. Guardiano
Isn't Grover Norquist married to an Islamofascist fanatic?

I'd thought that was part of the reason he'd backed off commenting on the rest of us ~ that he was fearful of our getting wise and booting him out.

So, why hasn't he been booted out?

21 posted on 01/24/2011 1:18:13 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Jim Robinson

Jim What does FUGN mean? sorry if its a stupid question, and thanks for Free republic!


22 posted on 01/24/2011 1:18:24 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: GunRunner
I don't see the sense in staying any longer or sacrificing one more life, especially considering who the current Commander in Chief is. Can anyone claim that Obama is serious about any kind of end game? The man refuses to use the word 'victory' for crying out loud. Bring the troops home from Afghanistan.

I agree with you GunRunner

23 posted on 01/24/2011 1:19:43 PM PST by NeoCaveman (Touch my tagline and I'll have you arrested)
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To: pastorbillrandles

I’m assuming GN = Grover Norquist.

I’ll leave the first half to you to guess.


24 posted on 01/24/2011 1:21:05 PM PST by NeoCaveman (Touch my tagline and I'll have you arrested)
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To: pastorbillrandles

F yoU Grover Norquist


25 posted on 01/24/2011 1:21:24 PM PST by Palter (If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it. ~ Mark Twain)
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To: x

Yes, it’s definitely “manipulation” on my part! And I’m not a “wannabe”; I’m a “has-been”! Get it right! :)


26 posted on 01/24/2011 1:21:46 PM PST by John R. Guardiano
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To: John R. Guardiano

Is there anyone still out there who does NOT know that Norquist is an Islamist tool and has been since the late nineties when he married his Palestinian wife?

It was Norquist who abused GWB’s trust and stage-managed the administration’s frantic “muslim outreach” after 9/11 and gave CAIR the keys to the liquor cabinet.


27 posted on 01/24/2011 1:23:08 PM PST by sinanju
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To: John R. Guardiano

What kind of person calls Norquist or Frum “right-wingers”???

BY the way, you can’t have a one-legged stool and sit comfortably.


28 posted on 01/24/2011 1:23:32 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.stink-eye.net/forum/index.php)
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To: pastorbillrandles

Not exactly sure. Someone started up a FUBO campaign a couple years ago and it caught on. I think it may have been patterned after the famous Dixie Chicks t-shirt slogan “FUTK” when they were having their dispute with Toby Keith. Someone sent me a FUBO oval sticker a couple years ago which I pasted on my powerchair. Get lots of compliments on it down at the VA and at Tea Party Rallies.


29 posted on 01/24/2011 1:25:37 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Rebellion is brewing!! Nuke the corrupt commie bastards to HELL!!)
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To: humblegunner
I hope you have a text file that looks like this on your desktop:

<emphasis>(Excerpt) Read more at [INSERT BLOGGER URL HERE]</emphasis><P>Why not just post it here?

30 posted on 01/24/2011 1:26:03 PM PST by GreenAccord (Bacon Akbar!)
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To: John R. Guardiano

did you get iced or do you never respond to posts?

I think we should POUND the bad guys and then get out. It is not the US taxpayers job to build up a country for those primitive knuggledraggers!


31 posted on 01/24/2011 1:26:38 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.stink-eye.net/forum/index.php)
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To: John R. Guardiano

Nation building in a place like Afghanistan is an activity that is doomed to fail. Either be ready to fight forever or just pull out. There’s no other option. No amount of excuse making or propaganda will change that reality.


32 posted on 01/24/2011 1:27:57 PM PST by Seruzawa (If you agree with the French raise your hand - If you are French raise both hands.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Thanks Jim


33 posted on 01/24/2011 1:28:41 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: GreenAccord

Better than that, I’ve got a ‘bot program that does it automatically.


34 posted on 01/24/2011 1:29:56 PM PST by humblegunner (Blogger Overlord)
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To: Palter; Rafterman

That’s right. It means FReep You Grover Norquist.

Here’s Jackie Mason explaining FReeping:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95TZAlWXmZ0


35 posted on 01/24/2011 1:31:29 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Rebellion is brewing!! Nuke the corrupt commie bastards to HELL!!)
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To: John R. Guardiano

Well, they’re welcome to try...
They’re bit out-numbered and out-financed, though.


36 posted on 01/24/2011 1:40:00 PM PST by Little Ray (The Gods of the Copybook Heading, with terror and slaughter return!)
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To: Jim Robinson

Yep !!!!!!!!!!


37 posted on 01/24/2011 1:45:32 PM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: John R. Guardiano

Frankly, I think these guys have miscalculated. They may bring down the party with them, but they’re not going to continue having the same kind of influence.

This is just the latest provocation.

Saying that you don’t give a damn about cultural conservatives means, in practice, that you don’t give a damn about morality. Right and wrong, who cares?

Well, a lot of Americans still care. No way in hell that these jerks can survive without that vote. And they’ve used up the last of their “lesser of two evils” business. If they try to come up with another McCain or Romney type candidate in the next election, the Republican Party is simply going to die. And these guys can all retire with their ill-earned loot and mumble in the corner.


38 posted on 01/24/2011 1:45:42 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: GunRunner
Bring the troops home from Afghanistan.

Can't say I disagree with you given the situation as outlined.

But when we bring everything home, we should also make it clear that any further use of Crapistan as a base to launch 9-11 type attacks on America will result in a mushroom cloud over Kandahar or any other Crapistan city we deem responsible.

39 posted on 01/24/2011 1:47:48 PM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: John R. Guardiano

Truthfully, there are some goals that need to be set for Afghanistan, based on the reality on the ground.

The first of these is to accept that the Karzai government is worthless, so we have to assume that it will be replaced by something. What that is, is a good question.

Second, Afghanistan needs to be subdivided, literally or figuratively, into a north half and a south half. The south, Pushtun half, crosses the border into Pakistan, which might eventually become part of Pakistan. Or that part of Pakistan may become part of a new South Afghanistan. Just an issue to keep in mind.

The north is much more useful to the US, and we are building a $100m intelligence base at Mazar-i-Sharif, because of its uniquely strategic location.

Third, because NATO only has 150,000 or so personnel, augmented with another 150,000 or so fairly useless Afghan army personnel, there is no way we can perform the security for a nation the size of Texas, with 30 million people, next door to Pakistan, which is about the same size as Turkey and has 177 million people, about the same as half the population of the United States.

Think about how only 150,000 soldiers could control all of the US East of the Mississippi, and you have a pretty good idea of what the situation is here. They cannot even hold territory outside of some bases.

And there is no great plan to make the Afghans any more capable, be it in a year or ten or fifty.

So the question becomes not one of whether to withdraw or not, but how we can turn over the combat side of things to the Afghan and Pakistan armies, so we don’t have to, without an utter collapse of the region.

An interesting way to define victory.


40 posted on 01/24/2011 1:48:03 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: John R. Guardiano

“Norquist may not have Rush’s cultural clout, but he has tremendous D.C./Capitol Hill clout and influence.”

As someone with a little bit of a connection to Washington of the “conservative” ilk, I can attest to Norquist’s gigantic footprint among conservative insiders. I am acquainted with him, and am sorry to confirm the power of his influence. He has turned completely wrong on foreign policy (he is simply a jihadi from Harvard at this point) and social concerns. I mean 100% wrong, and I am someone who thought the Afghan incursion was a chuckleheaded move in the absence of a vision and will to win.


41 posted on 01/24/2011 2:00:32 PM PST by crusher (Political Correctness: Stalinism Without the Charm)
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To: Vigilanteman
George Will said it better than I can a year or so ago. I think that this is the maximum that we should do, if anything:

America should do only what can be done from offshore, using intelligence, drones, cruise missiles, airstrikes and small, potent Special Forces units, concentrating on the porous 1,500-mile border with Pakistan, a nation that actually matters.

42 posted on 01/24/2011 2:12:55 PM PST by GunRunner (10 Years of Freeping...)
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To: rmlew

I believe you are correct about Norquist.


43 posted on 01/24/2011 2:24:30 PM PST by juliej
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To: rmlew

Norquist is a pal of CAIR and islamic lover. I do not see any point in being in Afghanistan and probably Iraq when an islamist is in teh white hut.


44 posted on 01/24/2011 2:30:43 PM PST by Frantzie (Slaves do not have freedom only the illusion of freedom & their cable TV to drool at)
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To: GunRunner

These two wars are bankrupting America bring american troops back and send muslim home. Norquist is a MEGA POS.

As far as Ron Paul - he is the only one standing up to the fraudulent and unConstitutional private Federal Reserve.


45 posted on 01/24/2011 2:34:11 PM PST by Frantzie (Slaves do not have freedom only the illusion of freedom & their cable TV to drool at)
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To: John R. Guardiano

Let’s have conversations about cutting ALL programs that ONLY benefit liberals.


46 posted on 01/24/2011 2:37:46 PM PST by GOPJ (How Liberal Journalists Think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF3hbPtCttc)
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To: Seruzawa

Every US life lost there not in pursuit of OBL
and his minions is a life lost in a lost cause.


47 posted on 01/24/2011 3:03:53 PM PST by rahbert
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To: John R. Guardiano

The Tea Party is about Limited Constitutional Government. Less Government, More Freedom.

Endless war is in conflict with Less Government. It’s expensive. And, really, traditionally, the Democrats have never been shy about getting us involved in wars.

Tea Party has always had a sizable Libertarian component. And has never has a pro war policy.

You can be tea party and be for more war or less war.
You can be tea party and be for cultural conservative positions, or not (but cultural / social conservativism does fit much better with tea party).

But limited constitutional government is the core of tea party, and there’s a lot of overlap there with libertarian.

The architects of the Bush war policy, the cheerleaders, the neocons, Rove, Kristol, Podhoretz, Krauthammer, etc, are the same people who are currently attacking Conservatives. The neocons are not Conservatives. More war is traditionally the Liberal position, and less war is traditionally the Conservative position.

Socons, cultural conservatives, are conservatives. It’s wrong for conservatives to embrace the gays and that stuff.
There’s a lot of common ground between tea party and socons.
Gay marriage is not in the Constitution. Liberal judges should not put it there. Tea Party and Socons agree on this and many other things. Roe v Wade - not in the Constitution.

The prowar neocons are the ones embracing the gays and bashing the tea party and the socons.

It’s an error for conservatives to be embracing the gays, but not an error to have a clear message - spend less money across the board. Less Government. We’re broke. Not, get rid of all this domestic stuff because we’re broke, but continue to spend on endless wars. People, moderates, people who typically don’t pay close attention, will appreciate our consistent message.


48 posted on 01/24/2011 3:05:36 PM PST by truthfreedom
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To: Seeking the truth

Hey! I don’t know about the Wednesday meeting now, but when we were invited to one of them back in 2002 we were shocked to find out that it was held in a building with lots of Arabic carving on the outside of the building and when we were in the meeting, Grover was flanked on both sides by Muslims. It was quite an eye opener.

I had no idea that he was married to a Muslim. I guess that would explain a lot.

How are guys?


49 posted on 01/24/2011 3:07:57 PM PST by abner (I have no tagline, therefore no identity.)
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To: John R. Guardiano
“Frum, in fact, is a conservative, albeit an iconoclastic and unconventional conservative.”

Yes, and I will be suiting up for the Packers in Super Bowl 45.

50 posted on 01/24/2011 3:10:57 PM PST by bwc2221 (.)
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