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Olivastro: Time to Repeal the Income Tax (Article and Poll)
GOP USA ^ | January 20, 2011 10:33 am | Richard Olivastro

Posted on 01/25/2011 1:24:18 PM PST by so_real


The persistent reduction of citizens retained earnings and the compression of individual free choice options — installed through an insidious income tax system and set of nefarious regulatory schemes – is indeed endemic of the very abuses and usurpations that gave our forefathers just cause to birth the Declaration of Independence.


(Excerpt) Read more at gopusa.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial
KEYWORDS: fairtax; flattax; irs
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Great article concluding the IRS can indeed be abolished in its present form. Scroll to the bottom. There is a poll regarding the replacement of the income tax and it has a sales tax option included! Let your opinion be known.


1 posted on 01/25/2011 1:24:23 PM PST by so_real
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To: so_real

Considering the 16th Amendment was never ratified by the senate, its high time.


2 posted on 01/25/2011 1:27:17 PM PST by Emperor Palpatine (I'm shocked! Shocked to find out that gambling is going on in here!)
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To: so_real

Flat tax is winning.

good.

Anything with “prebates” is retarded


3 posted on 01/25/2011 1:27:18 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.stink-eye.net/forum/index.php)
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To: so_real
10% Flat Sales Tax and

REPEAL OBMAMIECOMMIECARE.

4 posted on 01/25/2011 1:29:31 PM PST by Jim 0216
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To: so_real

At 1627ET:
Scrap the Income Tax?
NO - retain the current multiple rate Income Tax 0.86% (8 votes)

YES - replace it with a single rate Income Tax 25.91% (241 votes)

YES - replace it with a single rate Sales Tax only 68.71% (639 votes)

YES - replace it with a single rate Head Tax only 4.52% (42 votes)

Total Votes: 930


5 posted on 01/25/2011 1:32:18 PM PST by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion. 01-20-2013: Change we can look forward to.)
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To: Emperor Palpatine

It would be interesting to know if we ended all federal government agencies except the ones that protect the country. And all state programs except those that protect the state and citizens. How much would we save? And how much more money would each one of us as working individuals would have? Right now our phone bill is $40, after the taxes are added it’s $66. About half the price of gas is taxes, same with electric...ect.


6 posted on 01/25/2011 1:39:26 PM PST by MsLady (If you died tonight, where would you go? Salvation, don't leave earth without it!)
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To: GeronL

I do know a bit about the FairTax, which does have a "prebate" built into it for those living below the poverty line. I can certainly appreciate that the slippery slope of where the poverty line is drawn (and who falls below it) is a recipe for abuse. But, with so many people indoctrinated into the government safety net system, how can we move forward with reform without such a provision? The negative PR would cause considerable hurt. I don't disagree with you. Just looking for a viable alternative.


7 posted on 01/25/2011 1:40:22 PM PST by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: Jim 0216
10% Flat Sales Tax

Social Security alone is 15.3% now.

8 posted on 01/25/2011 1:45:23 PM PST by SeeSharp
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To: Emperor Palpatine

I never knew that. I thought that all amendments had to be ratified by the senate.


9 posted on 01/25/2011 1:47:30 PM PST by Jean2
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To: Jean2

They do.....however there was a LOT of backroom shenanigans when this one allegedly passed. (Especially with the Massachussetts senators - Massachussetts, go figure.)


10 posted on 01/25/2011 2:03:29 PM PST by Emperor Palpatine (I'm shocked! Shocked to find out that gambling is going on in here!)
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To: so_real
I agree that prebates are ripe for abuse but I have other problems with the VAT tax in any form.

After having coughed up over 30% of everything I earned all my life, I am now faced with the possibility of having all the money I've saved taxed at roughly the same rate when I need to spend it in retirement.

This seems so d*mn unfair that it will probably come to pass.

11 posted on 01/25/2011 2:14:31 PM PST by Aevery_Freeman (Fear God and Government - especially when one tries to become the other!)
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To: so_real

I’m one of those folks, and frankly, it would do me quite a bit of good dropping the exemptation and going to sales tax only.

With sales tax only I don’t have to pay any tax whatsoever unless I choose to buy something. I have full control over the tax I pay, not the government.

With no income taxes, labour costs will come down, and efficiency will go up which means the cost of stuff I buy would go down too. So even though I’m not the direct beneficiary, it’s still dollars I get to keep in my pocketbook.


12 posted on 01/25/2011 2:15:01 PM PST by BenKenobi
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To: All



Have YOU Donated To FR Yet?
Less Than $6.5k To Go!!


13 posted on 01/25/2011 2:27:51 PM PST by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: so_real

The “Fair Tax” plan I read said that EVERYONE would get a monthly “prebate” from the government. This is a way that government can make the middle class their b*&^h, making them addicted to getting a government check.

All the leftists have to do is promised a higher prebate than the Republicans. Then there is the bureaucracy to carry all of this off, mind-boggling.


14 posted on 01/25/2011 2:30:04 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.stink-eye.net/forum/index.php)
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To: so_real

I couldn’t vote. The fair tax wasn’t given as an option.


15 posted on 01/25/2011 2:45:24 PM PST by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: so_real

Bookmark.


16 posted on 01/25/2011 2:59:28 PM PST by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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I’m a big proponent of the fair tax. But, it must do away with the stupid prebate.


17 posted on 01/25/2011 3:06:30 PM PST by dsrtsage (One half of all people have below average IQ...In the US the number is 54%)
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To: GeronL

In The FairTax Prebate Explained 2007 it indicates families have to file to receive the prebate, and must renew their application on an annual basis. Also :

Calculation of the prebate
The monthly prebate check is calculated by multiplying the annual poverty level spending published each year by the Department of Health and Human Services times the FairTax rate and dividing by twelve. Poverty level spending represents what it costs families of varying household size and composition to buy their necessities. Figure 2 shows the monthly prebate amount for households of varying composition.


So the opportunities for shenanigans are in the calculation of poverty line spending (which can be audited -- so it is at least public information) and the FairTax rate which everyone else is also tied to (playing with the rate affects everyone equally so no unfair advantage or disadvantage can be introduced that way). There is a slippery slope in setting the poverty line level. But, because the FairTax method is tied to poverty level *spending*, and not poverty level *income*, it is still at least better than we have today.


18 posted on 01/25/2011 3:07:06 PM PST by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: freedomfiter2

I couldn’t vote. The fair tax wasn’t given as an option.

True ... but the fair tax is a form of single rate sales tax ...


19 posted on 01/25/2011 3:09:26 PM PST by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: Aevery_Freeman

After having coughed up over 30% of everything I earned all my life, I am now faced with the possibility of having all the money I've saved taxed at roughly the same rate when I need to spend it in retirement.

Though I have a few years to go before I retire, I am in the same frustrating boat my FRiend. I see it coming. And I get ulcers when I hear the libs talking about a 1% transaction tax on my money and windfall retirement taxation. They are going to either take all they can, or take what what we permit them to take. It's up to us to make the choice and show some teeth about it. If we don't draw a line somewhere, the default is for them to take it all.


20 posted on 01/25/2011 3:36:28 PM PST by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: Aevery_Freeman

21 posted on 01/25/2011 3:54:18 PM PST by no-s (B.L.O.A.T. and every day...because some day soon they won't be making any more...for you.)
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To: BenKenobi
With no income taxes, labour costs will come down

How would that work?

22 posted on 01/25/2011 4:08:15 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

Same way it happens with professional sports.

If your take home pay is higher than your salary doesn’t have to be as high for you to make the same amount of money.

Say I’m in a 50 percent tax bracket, my salary would have to be 2x as high just to make the same amount of money.

Or in a more concrete example. 30k all of it take home is probably worth more than 60k bumping you up to a 50 percent bracket. If for nothing more than the fact that withholding would mean you get your money now, instead of in the refund at the end of the year.


23 posted on 01/25/2011 4:13:08 PM PST by BenKenobi
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To: BenKenobi
If your take home pay is higher than your salary doesn’t have to be as high for you to make the same amount of money.

So if I currently pay $10,000 in income tax, under the FairTax I should expect my income to drop $10,000?

24 posted on 01/25/2011 4:16:23 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Aevery_Freeman

Oh, probably, when all the Boomers are gone.

Boomers have had a pretty good ride of things. Any changes will grandfather them, at the expense of everyone else, just because there’s no political way to get the necessary things done any other way.

If it meant we could ditch income tax, I’d grandfather all the whining boomers.


25 posted on 01/25/2011 4:19:25 PM PST by BenKenobi
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To: Toddsterpatriot

Hmm, unlikely that your pay would be cut. But new positions likely would drop.


26 posted on 01/25/2011 4:22:34 PM PST by BenKenobi
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To: BenKenobi

So income will drop and prices will rise?


27 posted on 01/25/2011 4:32:55 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

Prices are usually quite a bit lower. The most significant part of pretty much anything you buy retail is the labour component. As much as half depending on the product.

If they were to eliminate federal income tax, and replace it with a VAT, the VAT would increase the price but the drop in the labour costs would drop it more. So I’d expect prices to drop considerably, depending on the jurisdiction.


28 posted on 01/25/2011 4:44:57 PM PST by BenKenobi
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To: so_real; Man50D; Principled; EternalVigilance; phil_will1; kevkrom; Bigun; PeteB570; FBD; ...

FairTax Ping!


29 posted on 01/25/2011 9:03:10 PM PST by Taxman (So that the beautiful pressure does not diminish!)
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To: so_real

The poverty level calculation is a well-seasoned means tested procedure that DHHS has used for decades. It would be very difficult for members of Congress to get into the details of the formulas and data to try and skew the levels so that people can be bought.

And attempting to alter the DHHS computation procedures would also backfire because a calculated increase in the poverty level will lead to larger checks for everyone, rich or poor. These larger checks could cause large outlays from the federal government causing disruption to budget processes.

The Rebate simply says under the FairTax code that:

“There is no federal taxation on any American up to the level of poverty; and then taxation is a flat rate on spending above the poverty level.”

The way to implement the above is to send rebates on taxes already paid and limit the rebates at poverty level spending.

The check production process is already in place and is highly automated as witnessed by the more than 120 million tax rebate checks sent out multiple times in the final year of Bush’s second term.

The Rebate solves the ‘disproportionate burden problem’ that goes back to at least when Davy Crockett was in Congress. Without it the poor and middle class would be spending most of their pay on essentials whereas the rich would spend a smaller percentage of their income on essentials. The Rebate solves that problem completely but it was not technically feasible to implement a Rebate system in pre-1913 America when excise taxes were imposed. Now it is technically feasible and it is also technically feasible to collect federal taxes at the retail level.

So the bottomline is that America is now ready for a FairTax code.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq


30 posted on 01/25/2011 10:43:21 PM PST by Hostage
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To: so_real

Ingeneral it is long past the time when Washington DC served the country...and Flyover Country became the servant of Washington.

The first step in correcting correcting that would be the abolition of the IRS and the income tax...in its complete totality.


31 posted on 01/26/2011 2:49:33 AM PST by mo ("If you understand, no explanation is needed; if you do not, no explanation is possible")
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To: no-s

32 posted on 01/26/2011 5:29:48 AM PST by Aevery_Freeman (Fear God and Government - especially when one tries to become the other!)
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To: BenKenobi
Actually, it's the boomers that have been picking up the tab. Current retirees are living the high life. Now that it is our turn - the money's gone. Most of the gravy has gone to government employees - mostly boomers - but no where near a majority.

We started our adult lives under (shudder) Carter. You've never faced a 15% mortgage payment or stagflation or gas lines or the tax rates before Reagan.

So, please, have some cheese. Cracker?

33 posted on 01/26/2011 5:37:43 AM PST by Aevery_Freeman (Fear God and Government - especially when one tries to become the other!)
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To: GeronL

You, sir, are a wise man!


34 posted on 01/26/2011 5:42:08 AM PST by Aevery_Freeman (Fear God and Government - especially when one tries to become the other!)
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To: Aevery_Freeman

We need to send less money to Washington DC and we also send to siphon less money through it. Sending money to DC that you don’t owe, in any form, is wasteful and dangerous.

As in Kalipornia, what do you do if they send you an IOU, can you eat it? The “Fair Tax” is not a tax cut, it requires a pretty heavy bureaucracy to keep track and then everyone gets a check from government. How many problems can you count with this idea? You’ll probably need more than one hand.


35 posted on 01/26/2011 6:09:43 AM PST by GeronL (http://www.stink-eye.net/forum/index.php)
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To: Aevery_Freeman

I have Obama.

Thanks boomers. You’re doing an awesome job. The Obama economy is far worse than Carter.

Yeah, Carter sucked, but the boomer equivalent isn’t even an American.


36 posted on 01/26/2011 6:21:19 AM PST by BenKenobi
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To: Hostage

Rebate is garbage. Sorry.

I might get 50 bucks back quarterly.

If prices dropped 50 percent, I’d get 50 bucks back in about a week or so. The Fair Tax isn’t as good as flat or none.


37 posted on 01/26/2011 6:23:42 AM PST by BenKenobi
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To: Hostage

Prices remain unchanged.
True?

Government revenues remain unchanged.

True?

I save money because no taxes are with held from my pay check AND I get a prebate every month.

True?


38 posted on 01/26/2011 6:27:42 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: BenKenobi
I'm not sure Carter was an American in his heart.

Obama would like nothing better than to start a fight between the Boomers and the younger generations - killing boomers via "Death Panels" is and always was the goal of ObamaCare.

They spent the d*mn Social Security money and can't pay it back so they have to kill us. Actually, they would like you to do it for them, keeps their hands clean. If they make you hate your parents first, you won't mind and you get all their stuff. It worked for Hitler and the Jews.

Please, don't be duped.

39 posted on 01/26/2011 6:31:50 AM PST by Aevery_Freeman (Fear God and Government - especially when one tries to become the other!)
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To: SeeSharp

Phasing out Roosevelt’s Commie Mandatory Federal Government Social Security is definitely on the agenda.


40 posted on 01/26/2011 12:10:43 PM PST by Jim 0216
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To: so_real

FAIR TAX - 72+ percent - hoohah


41 posted on 01/26/2011 2:36:05 PM PST by maine-iac7
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To: freedomfiter2

ahhh- the FAIR tax is the SALES TAX option!!!!


42 posted on 01/26/2011 2:39:21 PM PST by maine-iac7
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To: Toddsterpatriot
You could read the bill as proposed - but let's see if we can make it simple

Look at your paycheck. What would change is the your GROSS would ALSO be your NET> Not one penny taken out.

Now, your boss saves big money because he/she no longer has to make matching tax payments for his/her employees.

YOU have more in YOUr pocket - and so does your boss.

Then you pay taxes in the form on POS - point of sale. (But no tax on any second hand goods - like a car) - YOU decide, by what you buy, how much money you pay out in taxes.

I know this whole concept is hard for some to understand because it is the epitome of FREEDOM and not many of alive now have known that.

It will not only give freedom to us as individuals - but it will take the Gestapo like power that the gov’t now weilds over us, particularly through the IRS.

ONLY the FAIR TAX gets rid of the IRS - any other plan keeps the IRS beast intact and gov’t in control of our lives.

Without the IRS and the tax forms, the gov’t will not even know who we work for, let alone how much we make - and, guess what? It's none of their business.

In Addition. with the FAIR TAX - the illegals will paying tax on every dollars they spend - no prebate to take care of the basic living costs. And the drug dealers will be be paying every time they spend a buck.

Are you beginning to see the advantage?

Employers, without having to pay matching taxes and pay for all the bookkeeping - will have a lot more money to add jobs!

The FAIR TAX will be the biggest jobs bill EVER.

43 posted on 01/26/2011 3:09:04 PM PST by maine-iac7
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To: maine-iac7

Yes, but with an important difference.


44 posted on 01/26/2011 3:43:02 PM PST by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: BenKenobi

I can see you haven’t taken the time to do your homework before typing an opinion that shows precisely that you are ignorant of the facts.

Are you relying on others here to do your homework? Appears to be and so the question is why would anyone respond to your unfounded and misguided view on the FairTax Rebate? The answer is so that others that are reading will be properly informed.

The FairTax Rebate is the same for every American individual from a grand mother on Social Security to billionaire Warren Buffett.

The poverty level is calculated every year. It is about $10,294 for an individual and the FairTax Rebate sends a monthly check of 23% of that $10,294 divided by 12 or $196 a month.

The Rebate to an individual of $196 a month is to reimburse the recipient for taxes already paid in federal sales taxes at the cash register. The assumption is that nearly every qualified individual will spend at least $10,294 each year. Those that can live on less that $10,294 a year can make a few dollars off the rebate. How much? Does it matter? It’s nothing compared to the enormous benefits of the FairTax.

For example, Americans exports of goods and services overseas will not be taxed leading to an immediate reduction of an average 22% on the cost of those goods and services because there is no longer any federal tax burden on exports. This will lead to a bolus of competitiveness around the world for American made products and services and contribute greatly to US economic growth.

Are the economic growth benefits of the FairTax worth paying a few thousand bums an small net gain every month because they are getting a Rebate and spending under the poverty line? You bet it is worth it.

The FairTax is not perfect, no tax code will be perfect but the FairTax is far superior to any other tax code.


45 posted on 01/26/2011 4:10:57 PM PST by Hostage
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To: maine-iac7
Now, your boss saves big money because he/she no longer has to make matching tax payments for his/her employees.

7.65% up to $106,800 of income.

Then you pay taxes in the form on POS - point of sale.

Sounds great. How do prices compare to prices now?

46 posted on 01/26/2011 4:13:40 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Hostage

I’ve moved from a jurisdiction that charges income tax to a jurisdiction that doesn’t.

Costs are about 50 percent lower here. On everything. The prebate sounds like a good idea, but that’s money that has to be redistributed, which means you need a bureaucracy to administer.

Assuming I make less than the federal income tax threshold, and assuming I spend about 10 bucks a day, I would end up about 50 bucks/month ahead of the game. No income tax saves me about 150/month, and the ‘pre-bate’ would be about 50 bucks more.

The problem with the Fair tax is while I benefit I don’t want to be the beneficiary. I want a tax system that benefits those who make the most more than a tax system that rewards people for not doing much.

Sure I might gain 50 bucks/month more, but I don’t intend to stay at this level of income for much longer. I’d rather have a system that pays off for me down the road.


47 posted on 01/27/2011 9:15:27 AM PST by BenKenobi
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To: Aevery_Freeman

My father isn’t here anymore.

But thank you. His birthday was yesterday.

The generation that pushed abortion and all that nonsense on us trembles that they might become the recipient of death panels.

I’m sorry. Y’all had 30 years to repent, but you killed 30 percent of my generation. I’ve been yelled and hollered at by too many older people for rejecting abortion, that you reap what you sow.


48 posted on 01/27/2011 9:39:48 AM PST by BenKenobi
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To: BenKenobi

Your failure to convince may be due to your style. If you sow anger you will reap hatred.

Sorry about the loss of your father.


49 posted on 01/27/2011 1:49:39 PM PST by Aevery_Freeman (Fear God and Government - especially when one tries to become the other!)
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To: Aevery_Freeman

I’m sorry, but I can’t help but feel anger when I look at what has happened with my generation.

50 million children are dead, and the generation that inflicted this expects mercy. What about justice? It’s not right what has happened, and to blame those who are insisting that the chain must be broken, it makes me sad.

I’ve had plenty of anger thrown in my face by those who have chosen to hurt their children. Apparently anger is only wrong when directed at them, not what they do to other people.

I am against death panels, but then again, it’s not my generation making this policy. Again, it is the boomers seeking to be rid of the obligation of caring for their parents, as they once rid themselves of the obligation of caring for their children.


50 posted on 01/27/2011 4:02:25 PM PST by BenKenobi
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