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N.R.A. Stymies Firearms Research, Scientists Say
NY Times [front page] ^ | January 25, 2011 | MICHAEL LUO

Posted on 01/26/2011 4:53:38 AM PST by Pharmboy

In the wake of the shootings in Tucson, the familiar questions inevitably resurfaced: Are communities where more people carry guns safer or less safe? Does the availability of high-capacity magazines increase deaths? Do more rigorous background checks make a difference?

The reality is that even these and other basic questions cannot be fully answered, because not enough research has been done. And there is a reason for that. Scientists in the field and former officials with the government agency that used to finance the great bulk of this research say the influence of the National Rife Association has all but choked off money for such work.

“We’ve been stopped from answering the basic questions,” said Mark Rosenberg, former director of the National Center for Injury Control and Prevention, ... Chris Cox, the N.R.A.’s chief lobbyist, said his group had not tried to squelch genuine scientific inquiries, just politically slanted ones.

“Our concern is not with legitimate medical science,” Mr. Cox said. “Our concern is they were promoting the idea that gun ownership was a disease that needed to be eradicated.”

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Extended News
KEYWORDS: banglist; guns; research
Well, at least THIS time, the normally one-sided, no-room-for-anyone-else's-opinion NY Times provides a forum for other points of view.
1 posted on 01/26/2011 4:53:43 AM PST by Pharmboy
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To: thefactor

Bang!


2 posted on 01/26/2011 4:55:34 AM PST by Pharmboy (What always made the state a hell has been that man tried to make it heaven-Hoelderlin)
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To: Pharmboy

With patriots trusting government “scientists” about as much as they trust Osama Bin Laden, this is a totally clueless article.


3 posted on 01/26/2011 4:56:54 AM PST by kittymyrib
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To: kittymyrib

Yep...when they put “scientists” in the headline, whether they support gun control or global warming, the point is that they make it look unanimous. We have them figured out by now, though...


4 posted on 01/26/2011 4:59:08 AM PST by Pharmboy (What always made the state a hell has been that man tried to make it heaven-Hoelderlin)
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To: Pharmboy

The “research” has been done and the results are clear!
When the citizens of any community have been allowed to arm themselves, after a long period of being restrained, the violent crime goes down, in large numbers.
In communities where citizens have been disarmed, the violent crime is highest in the nation.


5 posted on 01/26/2011 5:01:21 AM PST by G Larry
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To: Pharmboy

There is nothing stopping the anti-US crowd that wants to infringe on our rights from funding their own studies.


6 posted on 01/26/2011 5:02:26 AM PST by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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To: Pharmboy

Sounds like a bunch of people clamoring for tax payer’s money, while wanting to manufacture a bunch of bullshit statistics.

We all saw where that got us when “climate scientists” got our money......


7 posted on 01/26/2011 5:03:26 AM PST by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: Pharmboy

I notice they aren’t trying to do “research” on whether the First Amendment is “harmful”, or if communities are less safe where freedom of speech or religion is tolerated. Absurd? Of course. And so is so-called “research” on the Second Amendment.


8 posted on 01/26/2011 5:05:40 AM PST by montag813 (http://www.facebook.com/StandWithArizona)
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To: montag813; All
Great point...

And in DC (I live in Maryland, just about 5 miles from the DC line), since it has become easier to own a gun (Heller decision), violent crime has decreased.

9 posted on 01/26/2011 5:10:28 AM PST by Pharmboy (What always made the state a hell has been that man tried to make it heaven-Hoelderlin)
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To: Pharmboy

Time to stop using the word “scientist” when referring to sociologists, psychologists and the like. Whatever is going on is not “science”.


10 posted on 01/26/2011 5:12:03 AM PST by Seruzawa (If you agree with the French raise your hand - If you are French raise both hands.)
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To: Pharmboy
“We’ve been stopped from answering the basic questions,” said Mark Rosenberg, former director of the National Center for Injury Control and Prevention"

You haven't been stopped from anything - pay for it on your own dime. Methinks Mr. Rosenbery is more concerned that he can't get a fat govt. paycheck (in the for of research grants) for pursuing his political agenda. Boo-hoo

11 posted on 01/26/2011 5:18:04 AM PST by circlecity
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To: Pharmboy
The fundamental problem with the idea of “scientific research” is that it isn't done by scientists and most certainly doesn't follow scientific method.

It is at best a collection of imperfect data by a bunch of sociology PhDs who then stare at the goat innards and declare certainty in what it all means, not just deductively, but what it means we must do to address what they have pronounced. In actuality, it is a bunch of Leftists using government grant money to dress up their political views with spreadsheets.

We already know what would have prevented the Tuscon shootings, i.e. effective handling of the mentally ill. But losing the mentally ill vote would destroy the Democratic Party.

12 posted on 01/26/2011 5:18:28 AM PST by SampleMan (If all of the people currently oppressed shared a common geography, bullets would already be flying.)
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To: Pharmboy

Sorry, Times, but the studies HAVE been done. And done. And re-done. Ask John Lott.

But, ever true to leftist form, when the results don’t deliver the agenda you want, ignore them and feign ignorance.


13 posted on 01/26/2011 5:18:38 AM PST by IronJack (=)
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To: Pharmboy

When the scientists have reached their conclusions prior to doing the research, as the article’s premises suggest, the conclusions are inevitable: “Yes large capacity magazines cause more crime.” “No, people who live in high gun ownership areas aren’t safer.” “Yes, auto emissions and industry cause global warming.”


14 posted on 01/26/2011 5:19:30 AM PST by CholeraJoe (WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR EAGLE! HEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: G Larry

They are not fooling anybody in their attempt to pretend to present both sides of any issue. They are rabidly liberal and simply trying to couch every call for more gun control as the latest “reasonable” measure.

Even the “scientific study” they point to as proof that concealed carry doesn’t reduce crime is nothing more than a bunch of academics arguing over which data should be skewed to support their preconceived point of view.

It’s typical liberal tactic of “when the facts don’t fit, let’s change which facts we ignore to fit our conclusions”.


15 posted on 01/26/2011 5:27:07 AM PST by bitterohiogunclinger (Proudly casting a heavy carbon footprint as I clean my guns ---)
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To: IronJack
They did ask Lott...they link to this short piece that they asked him to write. They provided 5 pieces, 3 anti-gun and 2 pro-gun. That's better than they normally do...they must finally be hearing that they have not made any pretense at all of fairness or even-handedness. It's a start...
16 posted on 01/26/2011 5:30:52 AM PST by Pharmboy (What always made the state a hell has been that man tried to make it heaven-Hoelderlin)
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To: pnh102
There is nothing stopping the anti-US crowd that wants to infringe on our rights from funding their own studies.

Nothing HAS stopped anti-gun groups like the The Joyce Foundation and others from funding studies that miraculously "prove" their point of view.

During the Clinton years even the United States Center for Disease Control was used in this manner.

If you see the results of an anti-gun study follow the money trail back to the anti-gun groups who paid for it.

The NRA has lists of individuals and groups that are anti-gun, see their web site.

17 posted on 01/26/2011 5:36:33 AM PST by TYVets
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To: kittymyrib

The left in recent times has used the terms “science” and “scientists” to push their agenda

far too often for me to trust them at all.

Then there’s this little gem:
1 Tim 6:20
Timothy, guard what God has entrusted to you. Avoid godless, foolish discussions with those who oppose you with their so-called knowledge.

KJV:
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:


18 posted on 01/26/2011 5:41:24 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: Pharmboy

Typical, really. They want gun ownership defined as a mental disease that must be eradicated.
Now go out and make the science to support it!


19 posted on 01/26/2011 6:09:27 AM PST by martian622 (The Revolution is being televised.)
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To: Pharmboy

The book “More guns, less crime” is a well-documented and researched answer to this question, moron. Of course they know that, but just don’t like the answer.


20 posted on 01/26/2011 6:09:53 AM PST by jdsteel (I like the way the words "Palin for President" drive progressives absolutely crazy.)
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To: Pharmboy
There are plenty of DOJ crime statistics, including the one that says guns are used by law-abiding citizens 2.5 million times a year to prevent violent crimes, 99% of the time without a shot being fired.

http://gunfacts.info

21 posted on 01/26/2011 6:15:32 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ("If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun." -- Barry Soetoro, June 11, 2008)
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To: Pharmboy
Yep...when they put “scientists” in the headline, whether they support gun control or global warming, the point is that they make it look unanimous.

The "science" is settled.

22 posted on 01/26/2011 6:16:04 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ("If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun." -- Barry Soetoro, June 11, 2008)
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To: Seruzawa

Unfortunately this article failed to mention that the “studies” are mostly funded by anti-gun organizations such as the Joyce Foundation, and are performed by “scientists” that have no experience or expertise in the area of criminology. It is always encouraging to see how much the left-leaning media loves to down the NRA, however. To me, that shows that the NRA is having a definite good effect. If leftists and freedom haters can’t win with facts, they attack the opponent personally.

-dan z-


23 posted on 01/26/2011 6:23:09 AM PST by DanInTN
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To: IronJack

Yes, They have been done and ignored! Thanks


24 posted on 01/26/2011 6:42:01 AM PST by Halo-JM
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To: Pharmboy
NY Slimes is just carrying water and paving the way for this:

Chris Matthews: Obama Plans Separate Gun-Control Speech

25 posted on 01/26/2011 7:22:04 AM PST by Erik Latranyi (Too many conservatives urge retreat when the war of politics doesn't go their way.)
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To: Pharmboy
The reality is that even these and other basic questions cannot be fully answered, because not enough research has been done...

...except that it has, many times. And it always shows an increase in firearms ownership means a decrease in crime. But that doesn't ever have any effect on the statists. They want unarmed serfs, facts be damned.


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

26 posted on 01/26/2011 8:44:13 AM PST by The Comedian (Obama is just the cherry on top of the $hit sundae of fraud the democrats have become.)
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To: The Comedian
Yep...as the lawyers say: "If the law is on your side, argue the law. If the facts are on your side, argue the facts. If neither the law nor the facts are on your side, pound the table."

These gun-grabbers have been pounding the table for 100 years.

27 posted on 01/26/2011 9:00:58 AM PST by Pharmboy (What always made the state a hell has been that man tried to make it heaven-Hoelderlin)
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To: The Comedian

The work has been done, but not by public health weenies. Criminologists and economists have done the lion’s share of the work on gun control efficacy. Now the public health weenies want a piece of the pie. It’s about personal economics, pure and simple.


28 posted on 01/26/2011 12:08:15 PM PST by Redcloak (What's your zombie plan?)
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To: Pharmboy
Scientists in the field and former officials with the government agency that used to finance the great bulk of this research say the influence of the National Rife Association has all but choked off money for such work.

These supposed "scientists" would be the same kind who "studied" the effects of venereal disease on American Citizens in the south teo generations ago, and "studied" the effects of open-air atomic bomb tests on U.S. Soldiers a generation back. Now they want to play with human lives again.

Let them start with the N.Y. Times. Let's see how they react to having their armed guards removed from the paper's NY offices.


29 posted on 01/26/2011 2:47:29 PM PST by archy (I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous!)
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To: archy

I just noticed something which will need some expert to answer: It the horizontal grill on the NYT building spaced properly to stop RPG attacks?

Could that be why it is there? Or is an “architectural statement”?


30 posted on 01/26/2011 3:02:35 PM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: GladesGuru
I just noticed something which will need some expert to answer: It the horizontal grill on the NYT building spaced properly to stop RPG attacks?

Could that be why it is there? Or is an “architectural statement”?

I do not know. But I know how to find out.

31 posted on 01/26/2011 3:06:57 PM PST by archy (I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous!)
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To: Pharmboy

* The Wall Street Journal

* LATIN AMERICA NEWS
* JANUARY 26, 2011

Alleged Gun Ring Busted

Authorities Say Smugglers Planned to Ship 700 Weapons to Mexican Cartels

By TAMARA AUDI

PHOENIX—Federal officials said Tuesday they busted a network of gun buyers and smugglers planning to ship 700 guns to Mexican drug cartels embroiled in deadly turf wars.

Law-enforcement officials arrested 17 people named in a 53-count indictment unsealed Tuesday. Police were still searching for three other people named in the indictment.

“The drug cartels go shopping for their war weapons in Arizona,” said Dennis Burke, U.S. attorney for the District of Arizona. “One of Arizona’s top exports is weapons for drug cartels.”
Dennis Burke, U.S. attorney for the District of Arizona, detailed the bust at a Phoenix news conference where some of the weapons were displayed.

The arrests come on the heels of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s visit Monday to Mexico City for talks with Mexican President Felipe Calderón that addressed the battle against drug violence in Mexico.

Excerpt

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704698004576104531412549752.html?KEYWORDS=guns#printMode


32 posted on 01/26/2011 4:03:47 PM PST by KeyLargo
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