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Electrifying electric car news (batteries run down more quickly in cold weather)
American Thinker ^ | 01/31/2011 | Ethel C. Fenig

Posted on 01/31/2011 7:40:40 AM PST by SeekAndFind

Edited on 01/31/2011 7:44:41 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

I counted my blessings. The situation could have been worse, I realized: My fellow commuters and I could have been trying to make it home in electric cars, like the ones President Obama is constantly promoting, most recently in his State of the Union address.


(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: batteries; bloggersandpersonal; electriccars; environmentalism; globalcooling; greencar
Maybe they have a better market in the tropics. Hawaii and Southern California should sell lots of them. /s
1 posted on 01/31/2011 7:40:45 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Can we all say “how UNEXPECTED” this all is to liberals...


2 posted on 01/31/2011 7:46:19 AM PST by mo ("If you understand, no explanation is needed; if you do not, no explanation is possible")
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To: SeekAndFind

Great news for the two electric car owning idiots in town, it’s forecast to be -19 F Wed. morning. /sarc.


3 posted on 01/31/2011 7:48:38 AM PST by WellyP
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To: SeekAndFind

I remember a guy from the mid ‘90s who had one of those electric car conversions. He had about a 10 mile commute. One cold AM I saw him crawl through an intersection at about 15-20 mph in a 45 zone. He couldn’t get that car over 20 mph. At least it was a multi-lane boulevard. I have to wonder how much he lost from the cold battery and what was probably a minimal heater/defroster but it was obvious that whatever juice was left over was barely sufficient for a suburban road.


4 posted on 01/31/2011 7:49:44 AM PST by NewHampshireDuo
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To: SeekAndFind

Shocking news.


5 posted on 01/31/2011 7:49:54 AM PST by TexasPatriot1 ("Tyranny is defined as that which legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry" Jefferson)
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To: SeekAndFind

In the UK the windmills were stilled during the recent cold wave. There was no wind just when UK electricity demand was peaking

Solar and wind do not provide base load electricity (look it up) That is what coal does and the jug eared Kenyan does everything he can to put up obstacles to coal.


6 posted on 01/31/2011 7:52:23 AM PST by dennisw (- - - -He who does not economize will have to agonize - - - - - Confucius)
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To: SeekAndFind

MO, who’s backside is as big as a barn, is the food police. Now Hussein is praising electric cars, yet his slew of black presidential SUVs run on gas. I couldn’t make a round trip to the grocery store with one battery charge even in warm weather, so I’ll thank him to not come preaching to me.


7 posted on 01/31/2011 7:53:04 AM PST by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: SeekAndFind; All
"My fellow commuters and I could have been trying to make it home in electric cars, like the ones President Obama is constantly promoting..."


8 posted on 01/31/2011 7:54:05 AM PST by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: SeekAndFind

I'm shocked.

9 posted on 01/31/2011 7:55:59 AM PST by Red Badger (Whenever these vermin call you an 'idiot', you can be sure that you are doing something right.)
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To: SeekAndFind

That Physics thing ought to be against the law.


10 posted on 01/31/2011 7:56:25 AM PST by wjcsux ("In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell)
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To: SeekAndFind
Liberals are just now realizing that driving a car isn't just plugging in and going somewhere? In addition to the need for a heater, I suggest they keep the following in mind:

In the summer time (before all these green technologies kick in, and the Earth cools to a balmy 72 degrees), most people would like to have a way of keeping cool. Sure, it doesn't have to be cold enough to make igloos, but it should be cool enough to manage a drive into the office without sweating and sticking to your seat. Otherwise, we're going to have some smelly offices.

In addition to air coolers of some kind, it rains in many locations, and windshield wipers are needed. In heavy rains, wipers must be set on high, to whisk the water away quickly.

Finally, it might occasionally be nice to be able to turn a radio or stereo on while one is driving. For news, weather, a little music perhaps, or God forbid, a talk show. These aren't essential to travel, I know, but they are very useful and appreciated by travelers.

Unfortunately, they too, all require additional power from an electric car. Precious power most likely not factored into the overall MPG for the car itself.

11 posted on 01/31/2011 7:57:16 AM PST by Lou L (The Senate without a fillibuster is just a 100-member version of the House.)
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To: dennisw
That is what coal does and the jug eared Kenyan does everything he can to put up obstacles to coal.

During his campaign, he promised to shut down the coal mines, yet the United Mine Workers of America's home page was all about supporting him for POTUS. Mind boggling.

12 posted on 01/31/2011 7:57:16 AM PST by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: SeekAndFind

Global warming arrived just in time to save the day!!


13 posted on 01/31/2011 7:58:13 AM PST by calico_thompson
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To: TexasPatriot1
Shocking news.

Electrifying

On the positive side, I enjoyed the humor, but there are probably many who will have a negative reaction to the joke.

14 posted on 01/31/2011 8:01:23 AM PST by and so? (If it angers you, a sarcasm or irony tag after everything I post should be assumed)
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To: SeekAndFind

General Motors is going to lose its shirt on that stupid $40,000 piece of junk called “The Volt”, it and POTUS Obama conjured up!!! And....GE will go the same way. Anyone that listens to anything Obama rants about industry, energy and economic growth is either dumb, a fool or smoking too much reefer!!!


15 posted on 01/31/2011 8:02:11 AM PST by JLAGRAYFOX
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To: SeekAndFind

Don’t worry... High speed rail will pick up the slack!

Sheesh! Bunch of self centered hogs! Just keep a plastic Obama on your dash boards and keep those hope and change thoughts. Obama will pull a charge out of his stash and send it into your Volt and up your legs, all the while those high sped rail commuters will be moving along and that will keep your spirits up!


16 posted on 01/31/2011 8:03:30 AM PST by LRS ("This is silly! It can't be! It can't be!!" "Oh yes it is! I said you wouldn't know the joint.")
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To: SeekAndFind

Why don’t they try out their electric plug-in schemes with once-a-week-needed riding lawn mowers and eliminate that small segment of the evil oil/gasoline dependency? Or a solar powered once-a-week-needed battery operated riding lawn mower? Just think of the money the consumer could save on gas and the benefit to green technology. That mower should cost less than half the price of a gas powered one. Why aren’t THESE easy to dictate fuel economy standards implemented by our savoirs at the EPA?


17 posted on 01/31/2011 8:05:24 AM PST by PGalt
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To: NewHampshireDuo

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#Temperature Effects on Batteries

Temperature Effects on Batteries
Battery capacity (how many amp-hours it can hold) is reduced as temperature goes down, and increased as temperature goes up. This is why your car battery dies on a cold winter morning, even though it worked fine the previous afternoon. If your batteries spend part of the year shivering in the cold, the reduced capacity has to be taken into account when sizing the system batteries. The standard rating for batteries is at room temperature - 25 degrees C (about 77 F). At approximately -22 degrees F (-27 C), battery AH capacity drops to 50%. At freezing, capacity is reduced by 20%. Capacity is increased at higher temperatures - at 122 degrees F, battery capacity would be about 12% higher.

Battery charging voltage also changes with temperature. It will vary from about 2.74 volts per cell (16.4 volts) at -40 C to 2.3 volts per cell (13.8 volts) at 50 C. This is why you should have temperature compensation on your charger or charge control if your batteries are outside and/or subject to wide temperature variations. Some charge controls have temperature compensation built in (such as Morningstar) - this works fine if the controller is subject to the same temperatures as the batteries. However, if your batteries are outside, and the controller is inside, it does not work that well. Adding another complication is that large battery banks make up a large thermal mass.

Thermal mass means that because they have so much mass, they will change internal temperature much slower than the surrounding air temperature. A large insulated battery bank may vary as little as 10 degrees over 24 hours internally, even though the air temperature varies from 20 to 70 degrees. For this reason, external (add-on) temperature sensors should be attached to one of the POSITIVE plate terminals, and bundled up a little with some type of insulation on the terminal. The sensor will then read very close to the actual internal battery temperature.

Even though battery capacity at high temperatures is higher, battery life is shortened. Battery capacity is reduced by 50% at -22 degrees F - but battery LIFE increases by about 60%. Battery life is reduced at higher temperatures - for every 15 degrees F over 77, battery life is cut in half. This holds true for ANY type of Lead-Acid battery, whether sealed, gelled, AGM, industrial or whatever. This is actually not as bad as it seems, as the battery will tend to average out the good and bad times. Click on the small graph to see a full size chart of temperature vs capacity.

One last note on temperatures - in some places that have extremely cold or hot conditions, batteries may be sold locally that are NOT standard electrolyte (acid) strengths. The electrolyte may be stronger (for cold) or weaker (for very hot) climates. In such cases, the specific gravity and the voltages may vary from what we show.


18 posted on 01/31/2011 8:07:34 AM PST by WellyP
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To: mo
LOL, Where is the giant "Duuuuhhhh" sound?


19 posted on 01/31/2011 8:09:27 AM PST by Lockbar (March toward the sound of the guns.)
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To: Lou L

Here’s one benefit, the guys with the 1,000 Watt stereos in their cars won’t be thumping for long.

How far can you go in your electric car?

300 miles, or 20 miles with the stereo on.


20 posted on 01/31/2011 8:14:07 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: SeekAndFind

Hey, you know what might be *really* efficient?

Instead of burning fuel at a power plant then converting that into electricity, then losing some in the power lines, then converting that electricity back into heat, why don’t we just burn fuel in the engine so that we can use the waste heat of combustion to warm the interior!

I wonder why hasn’t anyone ever thought of doing...oh, wait.


21 posted on 01/31/2011 8:22:51 AM PST by Claud
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To: antiRepublicrat

The USG is now spending about 250million to install charging stations in CA, LA and SD plus some other cities and states where the weather is good to help the electric car program along. Plus handing out tax credits, plus the broke states are giving cash rebates.
I listened to a presentation by one of the Beltway Bandits on the charging station program. Even in CA, in the winter when it is down to 40-50 the batteries loose a large percentage of their power output. It will be interesting to see how many of these Leafs(all electric) you see stalled along the freeways next year.


22 posted on 01/31/2011 8:25:25 AM PST by Oldexpat
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To: and so?
On the positive side, I enjoyed the humor, but there are probably many who will have a negative reaction to the joke.

Ion the other hand enjoy keeping up with current events, and got a charge out of it.

23 posted on 01/31/2011 8:26:00 AM PST by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: WellyP
Battery capacity is reduced by 50% at -22 degrees F - but battery LIFE increases by about 60%.

So, it still won't start your car, but you can listen to it go RawrRawrRawrRawrRawr for up to 60% longer!

24 posted on 01/31/2011 8:29:29 AM PST by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: Izzy Dunne

Two atoms were moving down the street one day in one of the new electric cars, when one of them exclaimed, “Oh no - I’ve lost an electron!” “Are you sure?” the other one asked. “Yes,” replied the first one, “I’m positive.”


25 posted on 01/31/2011 8:31:09 AM PST by and so? (If it angers you, a sarcasm or irony tag after everything I post should be assumed)
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To: wjcsux
"That Physics thing ought to be against the law."

I work in SW Texas and the laws of physics seem to be on holiday more often than not.......:-)

26 posted on 01/31/2011 8:37:37 AM PST by sniper63 (Did you plug the hole in the border yet daddy........)
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To: SeekAndFind
Can you say CLUELESS?

As Rush says regularly, with Libs it's never about results--or unintended consequences--but all about their "Good Intentions," dontcha know?

Anyone who has ever lived in cold climes and was over the age of reason, could have figured that one out.

Even with a BRAND NEW (2 mos old) battery, last week when it was 20 below here in the Socialist People's Republic of Utopian Moonbats (VT) my ride turned over....as all of my vehicles I've owned for the past 50 years...velllllly slowly before finally catching and starting and the service stations were so inundated with calls re: cars not starting, there was a 3 hour waiting time for service calls.

I can just imagine what this kind of weather would do to an electric car.

Never mind, cuz I'll NEVER know...at least personally.

Now for the Einstein Award, I nominate.......!

27 posted on 01/31/2011 8:39:01 AM PST by Conservative Vermont Vet ((One of ONLY 37 Conservatives in the People's Republic of Vermont. Socialists and Progressives All))
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To: SeekAndFind; Admin Moderator

Wow, for a moment I thought the moderators were charging this thread with conductive criticism...


28 posted on 01/31/2011 8:39:41 AM PST by Jonah Hex ("To Serve Manatee" is a cookbook!)
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To: SeekAndFind

A post yesterday boasted of an all electric car in England made a trip in 4 days with 9 - 10 hour recharging stops, the same trip was 2 days in a stagecoach.


29 posted on 01/31/2011 8:40:15 AM PST by Foolsgold (L I B Lacking in Brains)
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To: Claud

Nailed.

You read my mind.


30 posted on 01/31/2011 8:42:04 AM PST by EyeGuy (Gimme Shelter)
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To: Foolsgold

Better Amish than Electric!!!!


31 posted on 01/31/2011 9:09:25 AM PST by old3030 (I lost some time once. It's always in the last place you look.)
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To: Lou L

1. Re-introduce vent windows. Opening vent windows past half-way procuced ram-cooling, a “poor man’s air conditioning” common in cars up to the 1960’s.

2. Go back to the hand operated windshield wipers in the early jeeps.

3. Provide a tray to lay a battery-powered radio.


32 posted on 01/31/2011 9:11:27 AM PST by catman67
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To: catman67
"3. Provide a tray to lay a battery-powered radio."

Boy, does that bring back memories.

Way back when I was young and poor I had a 74 VW Beetle with a radio that didn't work. I had a battery-powered radio that I would lay in the passenger seat when I went on a trip. Even rebuilt the engine once with hand-tools in the garage. Didn't know what I was doing, but it ran.

I think I put about 200K miles on that bug. Don't know for sure because the odometer was broken and the gas gauge didn't work either. I would estimate miles driven, estimate mpg and fill-up as necessary. Don't think I ran out of gas more than once or twice.

Had a little street-header on it and a deep sump oil reservoir with a filter. Put some 225/R15 tires on the back to reduce rpm's and left the little tires on the front because they drove the speedo. That was about the only thing that did work. I would just buzz on down the road for hours driving around western OK for my job with my 10-speed on a bike rack on the back bumper.

Oh to be young and foolish again. Well, young anyway. I think I still have most of the foolishness... :-)

33 posted on 01/31/2011 9:30:02 AM PST by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Gee, you mean like regular car batteries have been doing for, well, since we’ve had regular car batteries?


34 posted on 01/31/2011 9:40:02 AM PST by IYAS9YAS (Rose, there's a Messerschmit in the kitchen. Clean it up, will ya?)
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To: SeekAndFind

Not that I would buy a Volt, but just to be fair, the Volt underwent extensive very cold weather testing.

http://gm-volt.com/2010/02/23/chevy-volt-cold-weather-testing-update/


35 posted on 01/31/2011 9:48:34 AM PST by ltc8k6
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To: SeekAndFind
and add to that heavy snow conditions, windshield wipers flapping and the heater in your car running full blast.

They can keep their electric cars.....

36 posted on 01/31/2011 9:52:24 AM PST by Hot Tabasco (Oh Magoo, you've done it again.....)
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To: SeekAndFind

Our desert heat kills batteries. Around these parts a ‘premium’ 5 to 7 year warranted battery usually doesn’t make 3. I tend to replace them even before they show any signs of stress, because when they crap out, they crap out NOW...


37 posted on 01/31/2011 9:57:25 AM PST by ErnBatavia (It's not the Obama Administration....it's the "Obama Regime".)
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To: JLAGRAYFOX

The volt reminds me of the Chevette. GM had to have a small car to compete with the Japanese small cars. Only they forgot the reason was fuel economy so they took a truck chassis and scaled it down to small car size. Ours got about 23 mpg and finally died on the highway when the transistor burned up (the high tech Chevette had a single power transistor to run the engine).


38 posted on 01/31/2011 10:01:12 AM PST by palmer (Cooperating with Obama = helping him extend the depression and implement socialism.)
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To: catman67
Re-introduce vent windows. Opening vent windows past half-way procuced ram-cooling, a “poor man’s air conditioning” common in cars up to the 1960’s

Your ideas really represent a leap forward, don't they? Civilization will be better off with such marvels!

1. I remember the days of "side-vents," and even moving along at highway speeds, "cooling" was negligible. I do remember the noise it made--and while the driver or front-seat passenger might feel some warm air blowing on them, there was none in the back seat. If you're not moving at highway speeds--such as when you're stuck in city traffic--the vents offer nothing in terms of cooling.

2. We are introducing legislation as to punish those who text or read e-mails while driving because they're too distracting, and yet you want to have hand-operated windshield wipers?

3. A tray for a radio? Why not install a wheel for a gerbil to run on? If the gerbil's fast enough, it may be able to power the radio AND the manual windshield wipers.

39 posted on 01/31/2011 11:28:51 AM PST by Lou L (The Senate without a fillibuster is just a 100-member version of the House.)
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To: bgill

Then the wise voters in WV elected a Demoncrat to replace KKK Byrd...and he is a faithful Obama supporter....wow, what an electorate!


40 posted on 01/31/2011 11:49:29 AM PST by jennings2004 (Sarah Palin: "The bright light at the end of a very dark tunnel!")
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To: JLAGRAYFOX

No, no, no. It won’t be “General Motors” losing money, it will be taxpayers like you and me as major stockholders in “Government Motors” who lose money...go figure.


41 posted on 01/31/2011 11:51:23 AM PST by jennings2004 (Sarah Palin: "The bright light at the end of a very dark tunnel!")
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To: sniper63
I work in SW Texas and the laws of physics seem to be on holiday more often than not.......:-)
Texas is one of God's states and He can do whatever He wants!
42 posted on 01/31/2011 8:29:26 PM PST by wjcsux ("In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell)
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To: SeekAndFind

HEY! They can install electric resistance heaters to heat the batteries when it is cold! Wait a minute! Don’t they take electricity?


43 posted on 01/31/2011 8:33:48 PM PST by wjcsux ("In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell)
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To: Lou L

When I was a kid, I remember traveling between El Paso, TX and Tucson, AZ with my parents in our 55 Ford that had “Side Vent” air conditioning. It was nice, especially in July.


44 posted on 01/31/2011 8:37:51 PM PST by wjcsux ("In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell)
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To: Izzy Dunne
Ion the other hand enjoy keeping up with current events, and got a charge out of it.

Watt you say, I amp-positively exstatic.

45 posted on 01/31/2011 8:48:40 PM PST by DeFault User
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To: wjcsux
When I was a kid, I remember traveling between El Paso, TX and Tucson, AZ with my parents in our 55 Ford that had “Side Vent” air conditioning. It was nice, especially in July.

I'm sure your memories are much fonder than the actual experience. When I was in the Navy in the 1980s, I rode with some friends from San Diego,to Yuma, AZ,on the 4th of July weekend. My friend was driving a little Ford Fiesta, and I rode in the back. Our only option was to roll the windows down at highway speed--I felt like a turkey in one of those "Jenn-Aire" ovens. It's a dry heat in southern CA/AZ, but 110F degrees is very hot.

Back to the point about these silly electric cars--the vent-style "cooling" might be ok for some, but the vast majority will not appreciate the backwards adjustment in comfort level.

46 posted on 02/01/2011 7:21:12 AM PST by Lou L (The Senate without a fillibuster is just a 100-member version of the House.)
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