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Over-dependence on Wind Power Causes Energy Emergency in Texas
KFWO News Talk ^ | February 2, 2011 | Robert Snyder

Posted on 02/03/2011 6:28:53 AM PST by detective

As was discussed on the February 2nd edition of Pratt on Texas, the ERCOT (Electric Reliability Council of Texas) rolling blackouts across the state could have been prevented with better planning and policy.

Electrical engineer, Ross Aten, joined Robert Pratt to talk about how too many coal and natural gas power plants within ERCOT were taken offline for maintenance. Ross also explained that if you, ‘ran the numbers’, the only way ERCOT could have met peak winter demand usage is if wind energy across the state was producing at significant totals. However, because of the ice storm and lack of wind, windmills weren’t producing any energy.

That is scary to think about. ERCOT without any public proclamation or policy announcement, put all of its proverbial eggs into the ‘wind energy basket’. Or, think about it this way, because of bureaucratic policy and bad planning, millions of Texans had to deal with rolling blackouts during deathly cold conditions.

We heard some horrible stories on the show from people in Abilene that had electronics damaged, and destroyed, because of the electricity popping on and off during the rolling blackouts.

A quick aside, I know the term ‘rolling blackout’ has become accepted because it’s a temporary blackout that is supposed to ‘spread the pain’, but in reality a blackout is a blackout. It doesn’t matter how your home or business doesn’t have power. If you don’t have power, you can’t work and in many conditions, can’t live.

Luckilly (for today), the Lubbock Power & Light and Xcel Energy grids in the South Plains and Panhandle is not connected to ERCOT. I’d imagine that if those two companies systems were connected to ERCOT, the rolling blackouts would have encompassed an even larger portion of the state.

(Excerpt) Read more at kfyo.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: alternativeenergy; electricity; energypolicy; environmentalists; ercot; greenreligion; rollingblackouts; texas; texasgrid; windenergy; windpower
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Texas is forced to endure rolling blackouts and import electricity from Mexico because of reliance on wind power.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110202/ts_alt_afp/mexicousweatherstorm

The liberals and environmentalists are trying to turn our great country into a backward, third world dictatorship. Wake up America.

1 posted on 02/03/2011 6:28:57 AM PST by detective
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To: detective

It’s not the end of the world if people can’t watch Oprah for fifteen minutes or heat up their chicken pot pie. It will all be over in a day so everyone just needs to man up.


2 posted on 02/03/2011 6:32:50 AM PST by crusty old prospector
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To: detective
Also, at wattsupwiththat.com, We Spent Billions on Wind Power… and All I Got Was a Rolling Blackout
3 posted on 02/03/2011 6:33:06 AM PST by Paine in the Neck (Napolean fries the idea powder.)
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To: detective

Let’s project along the same path, when electric vehicles are stuck in snow, run out of power, run out of heat, stranded owner freezes to death.


4 posted on 02/03/2011 6:34:23 AM PST by chiller ( EVERY Democrat on EVERY level must go)
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To: detective; Fiddlstix; Fractal Trader; FrPR; enough_idiocy; meyer; Normandy; Whenifhow; ...
 


Beam me to Planet Gore !

5 posted on 02/03/2011 6:35:19 AM PST by steelyourfaith (ObamaCare Death Panels: a Final Solution to the looming Social Security crisis ?)
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To: detective

Think of all the carbon credits you Texans racked up during the blackouts.


6 posted on 02/03/2011 6:35:46 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: detective

“Electric Reliability Council”

The Peter Principal rule is that government agencies are to be named after what they don’t do, or try to make worse.

Schools don’t school.
Prisons don’t keep.
Public Works don’t work....etc..


7 posted on 02/03/2011 6:36:27 AM PST by Leisler (Our debts are someone's profit. Follow the money, the vig.....)
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To: detective

I read elsewhere people are p*ssed because the stadium wasn’t having the same problems...


8 posted on 02/03/2011 6:37:38 AM PST by Freddd (CNN is down to Three Hundred Thousand viewers. But they worked for it.)
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To: detective

How is it that Texas and Mexico just happened to already have the infrastructure in place to swap electricity?

I mean, it’s not exactly as easy as running an extension cord across the Rio Grande, is it?

Has this occurred before, maybe in reverse?


9 posted on 02/03/2011 6:38:59 AM PST by Carlucci (Don't care what religion my president is, as long as he worships -- THE CONSTITUTION!)
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To: crusty old prospector

Yeah maybe we will end up like Iraq. Power for 8 hours a day.

Obama would LOVE that.

Good Grief.


10 posted on 02/03/2011 6:39:10 AM PST by Marty62 (Marty 60)
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To: detective

I’ve got a friend who owns an environmental cleanup company. He comes in and does a large-scale toxic scrub every time a power plant shuts down. I’m guessing he’s not complaining about the shut downs.


11 posted on 02/03/2011 6:42:57 AM PST by lurk
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To: crusty old prospector

“It’s not the end of the world if people can’t watch Oprah for fifteen minutes or heat up their chicken pot pie. It will all be over in a day so everyone just needs to man up.”

And just how easy is it to “man up” with no heat when it is -5 outside with -20 wind chill factor.


12 posted on 02/03/2011 6:46:21 AM PST by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: detective
However, because of the ice storm and lack of wind, windmills weren’t producing any energy.

probably nobody that matters will read this sentence.
13 posted on 02/03/2011 6:46:21 AM PST by stylin19a
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To: detective

What Texas and the rest of the nation needs are a few more bureaucrats making decisions that take us Totally back into the 19th century.


14 posted on 02/03/2011 6:47:07 AM PST by radioone (Proud to be an enemy of Obama)
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To: detective

BRILLIANT... simply freakin’-out B R I L L I A N T ! ! !


15 posted on 02/03/2011 6:47:27 AM PST by Bubba (Build roads (make that TOLL roads)... Fight wars and stay out of MY live. FRREEEEEEDOM!)
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To: SouthTexas; WestCoastGal

Pinwheel/blackout PING!


16 posted on 02/03/2011 6:49:21 AM PST by Roccus (Joe Biden.....America's only living brain donor.)
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To: Paine in the Neck

In Scotland this past December, they had to import electricity from France because of their wind power fantasy.

In the UK, wind power has the capacity to be 5% of their total electric supply when the windmills are operating at peak efficiency. What the greenies and the political green energy whores fail to realize is that when DEMAND for electricity is at its peak, the CAPACITY of wind to generate any electricity is at its MINIMUM.

In the bitter cold of December, the windmills in Scotland were not providing 5% of the electricty for the UK, they were supplying less than 2/10th’s of 1% because when it was bitter cold, the windmills were freezing up and the wind was not blowing.

The same goes for solar. The peak demand on a hot summer day is between 6-9pm, when people come home from work, turn up the AC and cook dinner. Solar don’t work with no sun, so just like wind, when you need the generating capacity the most, it ain’t there.


17 posted on 02/03/2011 6:50:31 AM PST by milwguy
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To: detective

We own a windmill and they are unreliable. Unless you live in a place that gets lots of direct wind, forget it. It works great when the winds blowing. No wind, no power. Now if you want to spend another $20,000 on top of the $15,000 you can get battery back up. Which at the rate we make power( makes an average of 1/4 of our power) it could take a long time to charge up those batteries. Want to make all our most of your power? You have to buy the big one at $45,000. That doesn’t include the battery back up. If the power goes out without the battery back up, the windmill stops working.


18 posted on 02/03/2011 6:50:38 AM PST by MsLady (If you died tonight, where would you go? Salvation, don't leave earth without it!)
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To: detective

Hmmmm, that’s interesting. Just yesterday, the lying liberal propagandists were saying that the rolling blackouts were necessary because water mains at two plants went down.


19 posted on 02/03/2011 6:54:42 AM PST by Common Sense 101
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To: crusty old prospector

There are a bunch of principles associated with man up, and the “event” that are going over someones head, and it has nothing to do with Oprah or chicken pot pie.


20 posted on 02/03/2011 6:55:07 AM PST by wita
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To: detective

Wind farms. Worldwide you can look to see how poorly they provide any degree of reliable power. Just ask Spain, Britain and Ireland - all of who’s spending on fossil fuel plants has not decreased, and has actually increased since spending billions on wind farms.
With average temperatures continuing to decline every year, we need generation of power. Contrary to popular belief, it takes a lot more power to heat homes than to cool them with AC.


21 posted on 02/03/2011 6:55:21 AM PST by RobertClark
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To: detective

Those plants do have to come down at some point during the year for maintenance. It’s better to do it now rather than in July/August when people could die of heat stroke.


22 posted on 02/03/2011 6:56:01 AM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: crusty old prospector

Well, it started Tues and Dallas shut down. No thaw until Sunday...Dallas is still shut down. Here in E TX the daily supplies (to stores, etc.) from Dallas have not occurred since Tuesday.

Certainly, we can survive this...but it is lasting more than a day.


23 posted on 02/03/2011 6:56:45 AM PST by Dudoight
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To: crusty old prospector

>>It’s not the end of the world if people can’t watch Oprah for fifteen minutes or heat up their chicken pot pie. It will all be over in a day so everyone just needs to man up.<<

I think you forgot your /s/ tag.
Did you read about the fried electronics? I would be pretty miffed if my plasma tv got fried.


24 posted on 02/03/2011 6:57:24 AM PST by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice.)
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To: detective

Wait a minute.
We just need to spend MORE on windmills.
Yea, that should fix it!


25 posted on 02/03/2011 6:57:48 AM PST by vanilla swirl (We are the Patrick Henry we have been waiting for!)
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To: ShadowAce

It won’t matter then because they’ll all be friz to death.


26 posted on 02/03/2011 6:58:09 AM PST by MARTIAL MONK (I'm waiting for the POP!)
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To: detective

I predict the political response will be to build more windmills.


27 posted on 02/03/2011 7:01:34 AM PST by Moonman62 (Half of all Americans are above average. Politicians come from the other half.)
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To: crusty old prospector

My “rolling” blackout lasted for 7 1/2 hours.


28 posted on 02/03/2011 7:04:06 AM PST by texjan
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To: crusty old prospector

Wind energy is far more expensive than the energy it replaces and it is totally unreliable.


29 posted on 02/03/2011 7:05:29 AM PST by detective
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To: detective

You would think someone at ERCOT wold have seen this possibility especially after similar blackouts were narrowly averted on February 28, 2008 when a weather front idled most of the state’s wind turbines. This is just another demonstration why wind energy is NOT a reliable let alone cost effective means of generating electricity. It is bad enough when the US with its vast reserves of oil has to import oil because of idiotic government policies, but in the future we may be importing our electricity too.


30 posted on 02/03/2011 7:07:09 AM PST by The Great RJ (The Bill of Rights: Another bill members of Congress haven't read.)
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To: crusty old prospector

Issue has nothing to do with Oprah or chicken pie. Some of us actually have to work which requires power. We expect this after a hurricane but there is no reason whatsoever for anyone in Texas to not have an adequate power supply during the other times. Legislature is currently in session. Steps to correct this in the future should be their first order of business.


31 posted on 02/03/2011 7:07:32 AM PST by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
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To: crusty old prospector
"It’s not the end of the world if people can’t watch Oprah for fifteen minutes or heat up their chicken pot pie. It will all be over in a day so everyone just needs to man up."

Surrender to environmentalists? LOL, they prefer you weren't on the planet.

We're the Saudia Arabia of both natural gas and coal...let's use it!!

32 posted on 02/03/2011 7:08:52 AM PST by blam
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To: ShadowAce

I smell a rat! Previously ERCOT and Generators like Reliance and TXU only came down for Planned Maintenance Outages in April and May when power usage was greatly decreased, UNLESS the Generators wanted to make a point about getting OK for new generation.


33 posted on 02/03/2011 7:10:20 AM PST by dusttoyou ("Progressives" are wee-weeing all over themselves, Foc nobama)
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To: crusty old prospector
It will all be over in a day so everyone just needs to man up.

Well, on the one hand, that's an admirably stoic response. On the other, it's an attitude that lets the left continue to chip away at the modern civilization we've managed to build over several centuries.

I can see accepting natural catastrophes, but I would rail loudly against those created intentionally by man.

34 posted on 02/03/2011 7:10:48 AM PST by BfloGuy
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To: detective

Here’s what happened. Coal/gas plants were off-line, so “emergency” generators were fired up, and the owners of these plants raised the rates from $30/MWH to $3,000/MWH, which allowed ALL generation companies to charge $3,000/MWH. Talk about adding injury to insult.

Then the 15 minute blackouts ran as long as several hours, while other areas had no blackouts.

ERCOT is a total failure, as is electric deregulation. Rates, instead of declining, are now at the highest in the nation, and electric reliability...well, you see the result.

If you are in Texas, call your senator/representative. It’s time to put a stake in the heart of this failed system.


35 posted on 02/03/2011 7:11:10 AM PST by rstrahan
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To: detective

And here I thought Texans weren’t stupid enough to buy into all that liberal wind and solar power crap.
I was wrong. You Texans have disappointed me.


36 posted on 02/03/2011 7:11:53 AM PST by BuffaloJack (Re-Elect President Sarah Palin 2016)
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To: crusty old prospector

>> It’s not the end of the world if people can’t watch Oprah for fifteen minutes or heat up their chicken pot pie.

You spew ignorant liberal bullshit.

The reason we have rolling blackouts in Texas like we’re some third world backwater like Mejico is NOT because of technical difficulties, or EXTREME inclement weather (0 to twenty? C’mon), or any other reason that our engineering prowess is beyond handling.

The SOLE reason we got caught with our pants down is that our sycophant lapdog electric utilities have bought into the Sierra Club globull warmism nonsense, and screwed us in our ability to bring peak-handling FOSSIL FUEL powered electricity online to handle the loads.

From your snotty ignorant comment, apparently you’re a Sierra Club koolaid drinker too, yes?

I will NOT be ashamed for DEMANDING that our damned electric utility handle my loads like I live in a civilized country, thank you very much.

Oh, and by the way, Sierra Club snotbag, do you have ANY EARTHLY IDEA how DISRUPTIVE (and possibly damaging!) these stupid unnecessary blackouts ARE to BUSINESSES? They don’t “watch oprah and warm chicken pot pie”, they make stuff and employ people. Oh I forgot, all you Sierra Club pukes work for the gubmint and get “snow days” if the power goes down. Excuse me.


37 posted on 02/03/2011 7:12:35 AM PST by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: detective

This is silly.

So there wasn’t enough wind. There were multiple other problems, too, like coal and natural gas plants off-line and the BIG reason: brutally cold temps over the ENTIRE state.

A confluence of events, very unusual circumstances, cold more suited to Maine, and all of us having to deal with it.

Our forefathers — not that long ago — rode out these events by chopping wood and huddling together.

More snow tomorrow.


38 posted on 02/03/2011 7:14:19 AM PST by Jedidah
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To: detective

39 posted on 02/03/2011 7:17:54 AM PST by Iron Munro ("Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy." -- Ron Paul)
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To: crusty old prospector

The problem is not 5-15 minutes. The problem is that some of their blackouts that are supposed to last a few minutes end up being hours. My neighborhood lost power for several hours because something tripped and power didn’t come back after their PLANNED blackout. It’ 15 degrees outside, you’re home with young kids, and the power is out for 4-6 hours ... because they wanted wind but won’t drill the Barnett Shale under our feet.


40 posted on 02/03/2011 7:18:47 AM PST by tbw2 (Freeper sci-fi - "Sirat: Through the Fires of Hell" - on amazon.com)
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To: Carlucci

Yes. Texas has often sold power to Mexico, often through the junction/connection at El Paso.


41 posted on 02/03/2011 7:20:14 AM PST by tbw2 (Freeper sci-fi - "Sirat: Through the Fires of Hell" - on amazon.com)
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To: Carlucci

Canada, the US and Mexico are connected by power lines and pipe lines. We buy a large volume Canadian and Mexican crude oil and quite a bit of Canadian hydro power.
In some parts of the border, we ship US petroleum products into Mexico and Canada while we’re receiving petroleum products from these countries.


42 posted on 02/03/2011 7:21:20 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (Go Hawks !)
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To: detective
TX, like CA before them, may be finding out the hard way that the Achilles' Heel of "renewable" energy sources is their lack of reliability and predictability. Over-reliance on these variable energy sources is a sure path to disaster, and the endpoint of that is basically third-world lifestyles and economies. I'm guessing the average citizen would have some objection to that.

It is a hard lesson to learn the hard way, but wind energy builds in a structural requirement to burn more fossil fuels, to make up for the unreliability of the primary energy source. It does not displace generating capacity, because you need to maintain that capacity as backup for the primary energy source. So the costs become outrageous. You're basically duplicating capacity. Better, from a reliability and economic viewpoint, to stick with the reliable source and avoid the added costs of laying on a duplicate set of generators that are unreliable.

43 posted on 02/03/2011 7:22:03 AM PST by chimera
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To: chiller
"Let’s project along the same path, when electric vehicles are stuck in snow, run out of power, run out of heat, stranded owner freezes to death."

That's a plus to the "elites" who run the death-cult that is the Democratic Party and their globalist allies. Population has to be "controlled", as in reduced. See also here.

44 posted on 02/03/2011 7:22:37 AM PST by piytar (Obastard is a use of the term "bastard" in the literal sense -- Obama is hiding his daddy's identity)
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To: SVTCobra03

For 15 minutes? Give me a break, unless you are a hospital. Besides, it aint’t that cold where the blackouts are occuring.


45 posted on 02/03/2011 7:24:17 AM PST by crusty old prospector
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To: Carlucci
“it’s not exactly as easy as running an extension cord across the Rio Grande, is it?”

Maybe the Mexicans stole some really long jumper cables.

46 posted on 02/03/2011 7:25:57 AM PST by detective
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To: crusty old prospector

Actually it was up to an hour and stores could not sell their goods, gas stations could not pump gas, traffic signals did not work, computer modems were off. So it was more than missing 15 minutes of some tv show.


47 posted on 02/03/2011 7:27:34 AM PST by Anima Mundi (If you try to fail and you succeed , what have you just done?)
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To: Nervous Tick

Get a legal pad and put your laptop up. I believe I know a wee, tiny bit more about energy than you jackwagon as I am the moron who fills the pipeline with it, so show a little respect.


48 posted on 02/03/2011 7:27:52 AM PST by crusty old prospector
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To: Anima Mundi

Oh well, I guess am just misinformed. The only blackouts I heard of lasted for fifteen minutes. My electricity never flickered and I am in the ONCOR grid.


49 posted on 02/03/2011 7:29:40 AM PST by crusty old prospector
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To: crusty old prospector

My daughter lives in San Antonio, her husband is in the Guard and gone this week. She lives in her husband’s childhood house, which has no heat, because someone decided, Hey! It’s Texas, who needs a heater? So one of her in-laws pulled the furnace out.

She has 5 small children. They woke yesterday to frozen pipes. The high today is supposed to be 32. Yesterday the forecast high was 34, but she said it didn’t get that warm, so her pipes are still frozen. With the rolling black outs her space heater didn’t have a chance to warm up the front room which is the only room she was allowing the children to be in. Would you be able to sit in an unheated house with 5 kids wanting water and hot food and just say to them ‘man up’? Oh and did I mention her car won’t start so she can’t even go to the mall to warm everyone up?


50 posted on 02/03/2011 7:31:59 AM PST by Vor Lady
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