Skip to comments.In Search of the Moderate Muslim World
Posted on 02/04/2011 5:34:34 AM PST by SJackson
As the crisis in Egypt continues, Western nations are faced with a conundrum of their own making: how does one simultaneously demand that Arabic nations abandon their 7th century mentality, best represented by oppressive, often totalitarian regimes, even as one knows the current uprisings against such regimes will likely produce results utterly antithetical to Western interests? At this juncture, perhaps the best the West can hope for is clarity.
For the last ten years, both the Bush administration and the Obama administration have worked mightily to convince the American public that the overwhelming majority of Muslims are on our side with regards to the global war against terror. Yet if that were truly the case, then why has it been necessary to prop up autocratic regimes throughout the region for decades? With respect to Egyptians, a June 2010 Pew opinion survey reveals a decidedly different set of sensibilities: 59% of Egyptians back Islamists while only 27% back modernizers; there is 50% support for Hamas, 30% for Hezbollah and 20% for al Qaeda. 95% of Egyptians would welcome Islamic influence in their political arena.
If Hosni Mubaraks removal hands Egypt over to the Muslim Brotherhood, one of the most virulent Islamic terrorist organizations in the world, the Obama administration will be roundly criticized for sitting back and allowing it to happen. Already columnists in Israel are characterizing the administrations wait-and-see policy as a knife to the back. Perhaps it is. But in one respect, such a policy is hard to distinguish from that of a Bush administration which sat back and allowed Hamas to gain control of the West Bank via a democratic election. Thus, while one can criticize the current administration for a certain level of naivete regarding reality, the idea that an American administration embraces democracy per se, irrespective of the outcome, is hardly new.
Where both administrations have faltered has to do with the idea of believing that democracy and freedom are interchangeable terms, and that the definition of freedom is a commonly understood concept which cuts across cultural boundaries. If the result of the Egyptian democracy movement results in Muslim Brotherhood gaining control of the governmentwith acquiescence of the Egyptian peoplefreedom in the Western sense will be nowhere to be found. If the people willingly trade a secular dictatorship for a religious one, it will be a terrible development for the West in every respect but one:
We will be forced to admit that substantial numbers of Muslims, perhaps even a majority, do not embrace Western values.
Such clarity may be the only bright light in an otherwise darkened sky. If the uprisings occurring in the Middle East result in democratically elected religious tyrannies which openly express their hatred of the United States and their desire to destroy Israel, perhaps those long-deluded into believing ideas such as terrorism is a law-enforcement problem, or that massive Muslim emigration into Western countries is little cause for concern, or that Western accommodation to Muslim sensibilities must proceed without hesitation, will be snapped out of their delusion. Perhaps phrases like man-caused disaster and overseas contingency operation will be tossed on the ash heap of history where they belong. Perhaps an Israel completely surrounded by enemies will awaken Jewish liberals in both countries to the utter bankruptcy of their multicultural and morally relative fantasies.
Perhaps those who have long tut-tutted the idea that we may be in the midst of a civilizational struggle will have the blinders removed from their eyes.
No one in their right mind yearns for a clash of civilizations. But for far too long, Western nations have largely dismissed the idea as neo-con warmongering, or the politics of fear. Those who have sounded the warnings are Islamophobic. Many Westerners simply cannot convince themselves that so-called radical Islam and moderate Islam may be one and the same thing, and that Muslims who are genuinely pro-Western are not only not the majority, but not even a substantial minority of the worlds 1.8 billion followers of Islam.
Despite such a possibility, many in Europe and America are thrilled with the prospect that a West which traded stability for democracy, even when such a tradeoff was the only practical reality, will reap a whirlwind of its own making. Comments at many websites reveal the fantasies of anti-Semites convinced that the march of Arab democracy spells doom for Israel. Again, while such thinking is contemptible, it too reveals clarity: substantial numbers of Europeans and Americans view their own culture with contempt. It is a contempt premised on the idea that a lack of perfection is tantamount to utter corruption, and that if everything isnt worth saving, then nothing is.
Such talk is cheap and one need only remember the gut reaction of the overwhelming majority of Americans and Europeans immediately following 9/11 to know it. That was the day when the theory of Western comeuppance gave way to the reality of it. The West could be forgiven for not recognizing the enormity of Islamic discontent then. We have no such excuses now, especially if the Middle East continues on its present trajectory, one day at a time, while the whole world watches.
We can hope for the best possible outcome, but we must prepare for the worst, even if that means preparing for a worldwide war. We must begin recognizing weve spent the last ten years hoping that what wed like to believe about the majority of Muslims is likely nothing more than wishful thinking. No one truly knows what the majority of Muslims think. Maybe not even Muslims themselves. It is by their deeds that we shall know them. In that sense, who finally gains control in Egypt, if democratically elected, will speak volumes.
Clarity may not be much. But its far better than self-inflicted, politically correct delusion.
Article printed from FrontPage Magazine: http://frontpagemag.com
URL to article: http://frontpagemag.com/2011/02/04/in-search-of-the-moderate-muslim-world/
What part of convert or die is hard to understand?
We don't have the money to fight another war. We can't pay for all the hand outs the Democrats (with some Republican help) have voted into place to keep themselves in power. Another war of any significance would break us as a nation.
To be moderate, Islam must eschew Jihad, Sharia and Mad Mo’.
If Diogenes were using a lamp to find the moderates, he better bring a super tanker of oil to fuel the lamp so it does not go out before he finds one.
Islam is an insane rape and murder cult, from Mad Mo in the bat cave until now.
“Moderate” islam is its P.R. Trojan Horse.
If a muslim truly follows islam then you can never use the term moderate to describe them.
islam is an evil cult based on oppression, fear, murder and terror.
You have a good point. I do know moderate Muslims in Southeast Asia and they are good people. Two observation are necessary. One, since Muslims live among their fellow Muslims, the young people are subject to potential radicalization by their peers. Second, Muslims are more likely to be moderate the further they move from the basic beliefs of Islam. A bearded fellow dressed in white with a Muslim skull cap is not going to be your friend.
If youd like to be on or off, please FR mail me.
“I do know moderate Muslims in Southeast Asia and they are good people.”
I say to you; “follow the money”. Peel the onion of a “moderate muslim” and you will find a “Crypto-Islamist”
It would be the same war, only with different rules of engagement.
No money involved but they are teachers at a Christian founded university.
One does not know what one can not see. There are many perceived moderate Muslims here in the U.S.- professionals, live in the suburbs, friendly at work, etc, who covertly subsidize various Muslim charities who are actually fronts and money conduits to radical Islamic terrorist organization. Again, peel the onion and follow the money - you may be amazed at what you find...
In Search of the Moderate Muslim World
Otherwise known as Fantasy Land
Then what? Kill them all regardless. Nonsense.
There are no moderate Muslims, and there is only one kind of good Muslim.
Arguably, anyone that follows Islam is a terrorist:
Quran:8:39 Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
Quran:9:5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.
Quran:9:29 Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.
Quran:9:123 Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.
Quran:47:4 When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle, smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.
And, those 1400 year old views continue to this day, as Qbert points out:
- Arab and Muslim regimes are betraying their people by failing to confront the Muslims real enemies, not only Israel but also the United States. Waging jihad against both of these infidels is a commandment of Allah that cannot be disregarded.
- All Muslims crucially need to understand that (what) the (Muslim) nation seeks can only be attained through jihad and sacrifice and by raising a jihadi generation that pursues death just as the enemies pursue life.
Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood leader Mohammed Badie, October 2010:
Most of the FReepers on this thread have a clear understanding of the threat.
Will America's political leaders confront the reality in time?
I would say that there are Moderate Muslims.
The problem is they’re comparable to normal Germans during 1933-1945, while “Radical” Muslims are comparable to the SA and SS .
The moderates give cover to the “radicals” so that they can move about freely in civilized countries, provide them money through mosques and “Islamic Charities” and wage “Lawfare” on their behalf to make it politically incorrect to “profile” or criticize Muslims or Muslim theology.
Just like there were “good Germans” in Nazi Germany, there are good Muslims. Egyptian Muslims offered themselves as human shields for Coptic Christians after the recent attacks; some Imams have issued fatwahs against terrorism; and an Imam said the recent homicide bomber in Russia would “go to Hell.” I don’t if he said it Arabic, though, so it might not be binding...
So, predictably, its more complicated than we’d like.
A moderate muslim is a radical muslim who keeps his views to himself.
Ummm, perhaps not all. But, this conflict is more than a Islamic vs infidel struggle. This goes back to the Greeks vs Persians and was reincarnated as a religious war after Mohammad came on the scene. But, back to who needs killing; the only way these fundamentalist Islamists have ever been contained has been by the use of direct and brutal use of force. That's what it will take again to put them back in the bottle so to speak. These people only understand and respect one thing - and it ain't appeasement...
It seems possible to argue that the good people in Nazi Germany of whom you speak were also either naïve, indifferent, perhaps selfish, irresponsible, certainly intimidated and coerced, or otherwise frightened to the point of inaction. With hindsight, it is clear those good people had a responsibility at least to their families and neighbors to react perhaps initially with stronger politicians - to Hitlers early 1930s political machinations, which were largely accomplished with deception, street thugs, voter intimidation, etc.
Perhaps that is the lesson for us today and the lesson for peaceful moslems.
Unfortunately, good people do not always timely react to infringements in meaningful ways, if at all. And bad people tend to increase their overstepping until resistance is ineffectual.
So we select politicians to safeguard our systems, and then sometimes fail to hold them accountable.
“In Search of the Moderate Muslim World”
Keep lookin’. You ain’t gonna find it.
If Diogenes could talk, he’d say, “better get a long-burnin’ lamp!”
I guess my point was that there were “good” Germans, “normal” Germans, and Nazis.
And they all got bombed equally.
It should be the same for Islam. Once the issue becomes violent, its not our job to “sort them out.” We need to go into the “kill ‘em all” mode. Anything else is a waste of resources and creates unecessary risks for our service members. The only exception is for those who are trustworthy enough to fight our side (and the Afghan police and armed forces don’t seem to be in that group... I’d be happy to hear differently).
And, as anyone who has read Arithmetic on the Frontier knows, the enemy’s lives are cheap and “...we are dear.”