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Citizen exercises right to petition the government, agency initiates investigation into citizen
Instapundit and 'thoughtsbysteve.blogspot.com' ^ | February 4, 2011 | Steve

Posted on 02/04/2011 9:41:47 AM PST by Swanks

Kevin J. Lacy, a traffic engineer who works for NCDOT. When David N. Cox was exercising his right to petition the government, and submitted an 8 page document to support the North Raleigh Coalition of Homeowners' Associations case for more traffic lights to go with some new roadwork, Kevin Lacy whined to the NC Board of Examiners for Engineers and Surveyors to investigate David Cox.

Though Cox never claimed, nor has he been accused of claiming he is an engineer, Lacy thought the report "appears to be engineering-level work" by a non licensed person. So, in other words, the report was too good for a plain citizen to do, and for this he must be punished, apparently.

As a result of Lacy's petty jealousies, David Cox is being investigated, and his free speech is being trampled.

Kevin Lacy is what's wrong with the government on so many levels. He's a two-bit engineer, who seems to be enraged that ordinary citizens are challenging his work and conclusions. And the fact that they did it in a very well thought out, organized, and professional manner is outrageous to him. People with the brains of this dolt, should not be on the public payroll/dole.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: bloggersandpersonal; govtagency; govtworkers; ncdot
Kevin J. Lacy, a traffic engineer who works for NCDOT, is an a**ho** extraordinaire. When David N. Cox was exercising his right to petition the government, and submitted an 8 page document to support the North Raleigh Coalition of Homeowners' Associations case for more traffic lights to go with some new roadwork, Kevin Lacy whined to the NC Board of Examiners for Engineers and Surveyors to investigate David Cox.

Though Cox never claimed, nor has he been accused of claiming he is an engineer, Lacy thought the report "appears to be engineering-level work" by a non licensed person. So, in other words, the report was too good for a plain citizen to do, and for this he must be punished, apparently.

As a result of Lacy's petty jealousies, David Cox is being investigated, and his free speech is being trampled.

Links at: http://thoughtsbysteve.blogspot.com/2011/02/kevin-j-lacy-nc-state-traffic-engineer.html

And at: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/03/964781/citizen-activist-grates-on-state.html

1 posted on 02/04/2011 9:41:54 AM PST by Swanks
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To: Swanks
Feel need to contact?

Transportation Mobility and Safety Director Mr. Eugene Conti [Lacy's boss] State Traffic Engineer J. Kevin Lacy (919)773-2800

jklacy@ncdot.gov gconti@ncdot.gov

2 posted on 02/04/2011 9:45:54 AM PST by Swanks
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To: Swanks
So now you must be licensed by government to do “engineering?”
3 posted on 02/04/2011 9:46:35 AM PST by ez ("Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is." - Milton, Paradise Lost)
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To: ez
So now you must be licensed by government to do “engineering?”

Particularly in construction, the answer is yes. Search the term "professional engineering license"
4 posted on 02/04/2011 9:53:25 AM PST by sefarkas (Why vote Democrat Lite?)
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To: sefarkas
This citizen was not practicing. He was making his case on behalf of a group of citizens and apparently it was too thorough for the pencil necked Govt employee [and probably made him feel embarrassed]So he felt confident in filing investigative charges against said citizen.
5 posted on 02/04/2011 9:57:48 AM PST by Swanks
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To: ez
"So now you must be licensed by government to do “engineering?”?"

Absolutely! Every state requires that Civil Engineers and Land Surveyors be licensed. Some even license a specialty known as Traffic Engineering.

6 posted on 02/04/2011 10:00:23 AM PST by An Old Man
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To: Swanks

Wonder if traffic engineer Kevin J. Lacy has any financial incentive to install more camera’s?

Would not be the first time.


7 posted on 02/04/2011 10:03:48 AM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Swanks

I can’t believe a person without the required “pedigree” would even attempt to use Calculus random or statistical probabilities.

FIFO

/S


8 posted on 02/04/2011 10:06:24 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously..... You won't live through it anyway.)
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To: sefarkas

Cox never claimed to be an engineer, he just put some good ideas down on paper. The logical course would be to have a licensed professional engineer follow up on it. Yet the response reads more like - how dare you even THINK, commoner peasant! By the same logic, I was never formally trained on programmable logic controllers (PLC’s) even though I have an electrical engineering degree. What I learned was by experience. Yet by this logic I am not qualified to work on PLC’s.
Yes, I am a licensed professional engineer, but I seek some of the design input from plant operators, construction trades people, and the like. These are people who have to live and work with the end product, and also see details that I might not otherwise see, due to their perspective. Does that diminish my professionalism? Heck, no! Yet I have run into some PE’s who are on a high horse (”I have a PE license, peon. You don’t know anything. Do as you’re told.”) Those kind I have found are amazing at construction sites, especially at generating complaints and greivances.

PE Electrical/Control Systems


9 posted on 02/04/2011 10:10:13 AM PST by Fred Hayek (FUBO! I salute you with the soles of my shoes.)
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To: Fred Hayek
I reviewed mechanical plans for control specs. I am no PE but a good many PEs don't really understand controls.

It really got bad with all the “green and sustainable” nonsense. Some really ridiculous sequences started to show up. Some of the consultants took offense. The good ones do not, they are secure in their knowledge and experience.

10 posted on 02/04/2011 10:22:59 AM PST by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: Texas Fossil

Traffic lights, not cameras.


11 posted on 02/04/2011 10:23:20 AM PST by kaboom
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To: Swanks

In my, thankfully short, time in NC I can say this is completely typical of state employees. Well, the ones who aren’t too lazy to whine. In fact the entire place borders on worthless. The electorate seems happy w/ it all though. High taxes, low freedoms and a never ending parade of corrupt officials/police to prosecute. They have the govt they deserve.


12 posted on 02/04/2011 10:25:56 AM PST by 556x45
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To: sefarkas

The question posed was: do you need a license from the government to engineer? There is no license required to petition the government.


13 posted on 02/04/2011 10:28:13 AM PST by sefarkas (Why vote Democrat Lite?)
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To: sefarkas

Using Florida as an example, the citizen has the RIGHT, under the state constitution to “inform his public servants”.

Under the US Constitution there is that lil’ matter of the “petition the government” thingie.

The ‘crat was just being officious. Sue the bachelor’s child!


14 posted on 02/04/2011 11:32:24 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: kaboom

Sorry, I mis-read, wrong conclusion.

The “professional engineer” is still an idiot.


15 posted on 02/04/2011 11:39:20 AM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: 556x45

” . . . a never ending parade of corrupt officials/police to prosecute.”

At least they get prosecuted (and often convicted), unlike many states I could name where they get ignored until they reach retirement at age 50 and leave with handsome pensions, or double dip with a desk job while collecting their pensions too, until they drop dead.

Our property tax rate dropped by more than 1/2 when we moved here 22 years ago. I’m glad you’re doing better wherever you ended up.

Everyone gets the government they deserve... eventually if not immediately.


16 posted on 02/04/2011 12:22:28 PM PST by Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek
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To: Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek

Yes, its good some are prosecuted and even wind up with jail time. Thats only some though. Whats bothersome is neither party learns anything. The pols/police feel they can do whatever they want and the electorate keeps enabling them. Seems a rather dull lot to me - a sort of dumb and dumber.

In my view NC isn’t low tax so you must have come from a hyper-regressive state. Glad you made it to ‘better’ ground...but its not that great by other comparisons.


17 posted on 02/04/2011 12:31:13 PM PST by 556x45
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To: 556x45

BTT


18 posted on 02/04/2011 12:51:59 PM PST by Swanks
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To: Swanks
Andrew L. Ritter, executive director of the engineers licensing board, said it will take three or four months to investigate Lacy's allegation against Cox. He said there is a potential for violation if DOT and the public were misled by "engineering-quality work"- even if the authors did not claim to be engineers.

This sounds like an abuse of power, and not just on Lacy's part. The licensing board is overstepping their bounds. Bunch of bureaucrats.

19 posted on 02/04/2011 2:09:44 PM PST by Rocky (REPEAL IT!)
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To: Rocky
Look what someone found, posted by the Bozo. Who the h**l writes like this? [Only those who can't work in private sector, and need to hide out in this case like dumps such as a D.O.T.] I swear.....

"Kevin became the Director of the Traffic Engineering & Safety Systems Branch in April 2004. Prior to this position, he managed the Traffic Safety Systems Section within the Branch. He worked his way up the organizational ladder from a temporary Engineering Aide which gives him a unique perspective to understand the details of the job duties related to Traffic Safety Analysis.

Kevin is the current President of the North Carolina Section of the Institute of Transportation Engineers (NCSITE). He has been very active in this professional organization through committees, councils, and work groups. He encourages his employees to get involved in their professional careers and in the future of transportation issues through participation in training courses, workshops, and conferences.

Through allowing his staff to participate in providing expert knowledge, analyses, and team involvement, he has been extremely supportive of the ongoing Transformation Management Team efforts. With his technical knowledge, excellent managerial and people skills, he is extremely marketable for positions outside the Department, and yet chooses to remain here and work for the citizens of North Carolina.

He exhibits a commitment to his employees and the NC motoring public through his accessibility by his personal cell phone, his willingness to participate in many hallway conversations, and his willingness to be in the Regional Traffic Engineer's office when needed."

20 posted on 02/04/2011 2:18:20 PM PST by Swanks
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To: Swanks

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_89C/GS_89C-3.html

Practice of engineering. –
a. Any service or creative work, the adequate performance of which requires engineering education, training, and experience, in the application of special knowledge of the mathematical, physical, and engineering sciences to such services or creative work as consultation, investigation, evaluation, planning, and design of engineering works and systems, planning the use of land and water, engineering surveys, and the observation of construction for the purposes of assuring compliance with drawings and specifications, including the consultation, investigation, evaluation, planning, and design for either private or public use, in connection with any utilities, structures, buildings, machines, equipment, processes, work systems, projects, and industrial or consumer products or equipment of a mechanical, electrical, hydraulic, pneumatic or thermal nature, insofar as they involve safeguarding life, health or property, and including such other professional services as may be necessary to the planning, progress and completion of any engineering services.
A person shall be construed to practice or offer to practice engineering, within the meaning and intent of this Chapter, who practices any branch of the profession of engineering; or who, by verbal claim, sign, advertisement, letterhead, card, or in any other way represents the person to be a professional engineer, or through the use of some other title implies that the person is a professional engineer or that the person is licensed under this Chapter; or who holds the person out as able to perform, or who does perform any engineering service or work not exempted by this Chapter, or any other service designated by the practitioner which is recognized as engineering.
b. The term “practice of engineering” shall not be construed to permit the location, description, establishment or reestablishment of property lines or descriptions of land boundaries for conveyance. The term does not include the assessment of an underground storage tank required by applicable rules at closure or change in service unless there has been a discharge or release of the product from the tank.

I Think Kevin will have a hard time proving that “we need more stop light because of traffic here, here, and HERE” requires much more than Driver Ed. Good luck on your next job, Kev!


21 posted on 02/04/2011 2:31:06 PM PST by cqnc (Don't Blame ME, I voted for the American!)
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To: Swanks

OH, and yes, they can take my title of Nuclear Engineer from my cold dead Naval Reactor Operator hands when I scram to the big Reactor in the sky!


22 posted on 02/04/2011 2:35:56 PM PST by cqnc (Don't Blame ME, I voted for the American!)
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To: Swanks

Gad. The idiot thinks highly of himself, doesn’t he?


23 posted on 02/04/2011 3:14:21 PM PST by Rocky (REPEAL IT!)
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To: cqnc

I worked with one person who was former enlisted Navy and serve a lot of time on nuke boats. No college degree. Still as knowledgable as most engineers, however. He’s currently on track to being on the plant management team of a major refinery.
I have hear that even though there are specialties on the boat, most everyone on the boat knows at least the basics from how to load and fire a torpedo to how to run a reactor. Everything except how to operate the radio (thank the Walker family for that one). Everyone I have worked with that was nuclear Navy was top notch.


24 posted on 02/04/2011 4:25:40 PM PST by Fred Hayek (FUBO! I salute you with the soles of my shoes.)
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To: Fred Hayek

It is absurd beyond words for Mr. Lacy to take the position that it’s okay for people to petition the government, but not for them to do it too well. Licensing professionals has nothing to do with the constitutional rights of citizens to make their feelings known.


25 posted on 02/04/2011 5:31:32 PM PST by Swanks
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To: 556x45

“Yes, its good some are prosecuted and even wind up with jail time. Thats only some though.”

There is no perfect justice this side of Judgment Day. The pols who think they can do anything they want generally get axed eventually: sufficiently often to keep most of the rest twitchy, since “the guilty flee even when no one pursues them”.

“Whats bothersome is neither party learns anything. . . .
Seems a rather dull lot to me - a sort of dumb and dumber.”

So, one of the parties where you moved has learned something useful? Enjoy it while it lasts. Better a dumb politician, whether ‘normal’ or psychopathic.

It’s the smart psychopaths that are the greatest concern, though in this country they tend to gravitate into Wall Street and financial services rather than politics, and buy whatever politicians or regulators they need to achieve their purposes. If it’s clear that a smart psychopath has plowed their way to the top, best plan is to leave ASAP, whether it’s an enterprise or a country. The people who facilitate their rise, and then hang around, get the governance they deserve.


26 posted on 02/13/2011 6:02:14 PM PST by Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek
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To: Fred Hayek

Did you take the PE exam in Controls? Or did you do EE? I’m asking because I got my degree in ChE, but I now work with DCS. I have my EIT, but I was hesitant to go for a PE in Chem E because I don’t use any of it in my current job.


27 posted on 02/13/2011 6:08:12 PM PST by Hoodat (Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. - (Rom 8:37))
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To: Swanks

Yep...you need to have a license to practice engineering, same as law, accounting, medicine. Most of the time the state boards for engineering do nothing. Since they almost never do their job, and basically never have, folks are surprised when they hear about engineering licensing.

Does it mean you know everything? No. An engineer is not supposed to practice outside of their experience and expertise.

It’s the way it is, for better or worse. My biggest beef with it is not the licensing practice itself - it’s easy, but the fact that you have to go through it in every state you wish to practice.

Theoretically, a Mexican Engineer can practice in every state in the US - because they have reciprocity by federal treaty under NAFTA, but an American has to jump through far more hoops.

Sounds like the State Engineer is using his position/connections in government to harass a guy who made him look bad. If the work was engineering-level and good, the State Engineer should have offered to stamp it and pass it on for consideration. That’s what any reasonable person would have done with a concerned citizen who knew what they were doing. Problem solved.


28 posted on 02/13/2011 6:30:53 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: Hoodat

“I have my EIT, but I was hesitant to go for a PE in Chem E because I don’t use any of it in my current job.”

Just take a refresher course and sit for the exam. It’s easy.


29 posted on 02/13/2011 6:32:11 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: Hoodat

My license is EE. Not all states recognize the Controls discipline, two of which are New Jersey and Alaska. Since you are doing work with DCS’s, you are working with process controls, thus applicable to chemical engineering.

I have done process modeling, for the purpose of validating control schemes. When you look at the math involved, it is not much of a leap from being able to do an electrical circuit analysis to being able to do a heat and material balance. This is why everything is covered on the EIT. And when you look at control systems, it overlaps every other engineering discipline except for civil engineering.


30 posted on 02/13/2011 10:23:09 PM PST by Fred Hayek (FUBO! I salute you with the soles of my shoes.)
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To: RFEngineer

“If the work was engineering-level and good, the State Engineer should have offered to stamp it and pass it on for consideration. That’s what any reasonable person would have done with a concerned citizen who knew what they were doing. Problem solved.”

I have incorporated numerous suggestions from designers, plant operators, and constructive crafts. Not blindly of course, each is evaluated for merit. There is nothing wrong with that. Yet there are those with professional licenses who look down at anyone working for them, or even clients, with disdain. It’s a really good way to lose clients, and I have seen it happen.


31 posted on 02/13/2011 10:34:52 PM PST by Fred Hayek (FUBO! I salute you with the soles of my shoes.)
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To: Fred Hayek

“Yet there are those with professional licenses who look down at anyone working for them, or even clients, with disdain. It’s a really good way to lose clients, and I have seen it happen.”

Oh, I’ve seen it plenty of times myself. However, another aspect of licensing that hasn’t been discussed on this thread is liability. Someone has to be responsible - in fact (as I’m sure you know) the legal concept of “Responsible Charge” goes hand-in-hand with licensing.

If this individual’s suggestions create a traffic hazard, who is responsible?

I still maintain that the right way for this state engineer to handle this situation is to review, make any necessary changes, collaborate with the guy, and stamp the freaking plans. Everyone wins, and the engineer doesn’t look like a douche.


32 posted on 02/14/2011 5:47:25 AM PST by RFEngineer
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