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Illinois proposal would require home-schooled kids to register
Pantagraph ^ | Sunday, February 6, 2011 4:35 pm | By Kiera Manion-Fischer

Posted on 02/07/2011 5:43:08 PM PST by DeaconBenjamin

SPRINGFIELD — Parents of home-schooled children would have to register their kids with the state under a proposal that could be debated in the Illinois Senate in coming weeks.

State Sen. Ed Maloney, D-Chicago, says his proposal could be a way to track how many students in Illinois are schooled at home.

“I was surprised to learn that in Illinois, there are virtually no rules or regulations relative to the concept of home schooling,” Maloney said.

“This is just the first step toward establishing, I think, some accountability.

I think people do a good job at this, but how do we know that everybody does?”

Home schooling advocacy groups such as the national Home School Legal Defense Association and Illinois Christian Home Educators were quick to oppose the idea, saying existing mandates are enough.

Home-schooled students must receive an education equivalent to public schooling, according to current Illinois state law.

The pending legislation contains no provisions for measuring home-schooled students’ academic progress or otherwise expanding the state education mandates.

Christine Martin lives near Neoga and teaches her fifth-grader at home. Martin has home-schooled some of her five children and put some of them through public schools, she said.

Martin is part of the East Central Illinois Home Educator Network, a Christian-based group that organizes field trips, testing and social connections for home-schooled students. She said she has access to the same resources public schools use.

She said she didn’t think registering home-schooled students would solve the problem of parents who might try to avoid educating their children by using home schooling as a cover.

“I personally don’t think more legislation is going to solve that problem,” Martin said.

“I don’t think registering as a home-schooler is going to fix that.”

Home-schoolers aren’t required to register their children with any government entity, but parents can choose to notify their regional office of education or the state board of their intention to teach their children at home.

Mary Fergus, a spokeswoman for the state Board of Education, said the state doesn’t track home-schooled students.

“They really are considered to be another form of private education,” she said. “We’re not out there monitoring children in their homes.”

There also are no state testing requirements for home-schooled students.

The legislation is Senate Bill 136.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: education; frhf; homeschool; homeschooling; illinois
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1 posted on 02/07/2011 5:43:12 PM PST by DeaconBenjamin
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To: DeaconBenjamin

Maloney, rhymes with....


2 posted on 02/07/2011 5:45:28 PM PST by RangerM (A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel. - Robert Frost.)
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To: metmom; Tired of Taxes; wintertime; BillyBoy

Has Illinois been known for being hostile to homeschoolers?


3 posted on 02/07/2011 5:46:30 PM PST by Clintonfatigued (Illegal aliens commit crimes that Americans won't commit)
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To: DeaconBenjamin

Here in WA they want to include HS kids because it raises the test score averages. Without them the averages are basically in the toilet.


4 posted on 02/07/2011 5:47:05 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White)
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To: DeaconBenjamin

Illinois Fascists. Is there anything they won’t do?


5 posted on 02/07/2011 5:50:45 PM PST by SaveTheChief
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To: DeaconBenjamin

sounds like they should leave it like it is


6 posted on 02/07/2011 5:53:24 PM PST by tutstar
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To: DeaconBenjamin

Why does the state need to know how many and who is being home schooled?


7 posted on 02/07/2011 5:55:58 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.stink-eye.net/forum/index.php for FR backup site!)
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To: tutstar

registration come before banning


8 posted on 02/07/2011 5:57:09 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.stink-eye.net/forum/index.php for FR backup site!)
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To: DeaconBenjamin

“I don’t know that there is any problem whatsoever. But let’s destroy the liberty of all just in case, okay?”


9 posted on 02/07/2011 5:57:32 PM PST by EternalVigilance (Is this a Tea Party, like the kind that happened in 1773, or the kind where they serve crumpets?)
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To: ReverendJames

Where did you hear that?


10 posted on 02/07/2011 5:58:36 PM PST by stormer
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To: DeaconBenjamin; 2Jedismom; 6amgelsmama; AAABEST; aberaussie; adopt4Christ; Aggie Mama; agrace; ...

HOMESCHOOL PING

This ping list is for articles of interest to homeschoolers. I hold both the Homeschool Ping List and the Another Reason to Homeschool Ping List. Please freepmail me to let me know if you would like to be added or removed from either list, or both. The keyword for the FREE REPUBLIC HOMESCHOOLERS’ FORUM is frhf.

11 posted on 02/07/2011 6:00:27 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: DeaconBenjamin
I think people do a good job at this, but how do we know that everybody does?”

Hey, Mr. Baloney, when you have epidemic truancy, drop outs and gang violence among home school kids, let us know. Right now, you're just a solution in search of a problem.

Why don't you fix the public schools instead of harassing the people using one of the few escapes from your dreary, failed institutions.

12 posted on 02/07/2011 6:01:27 PM PST by Valpal1 ("No clever arrangement of bad eggs ever made a good omelet." ~ C.S. Lewis)
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To: DeaconBenjamin

In AZ we have to register them as being home schooled .. one quick notarized form and their birth certs (YES their REAL long form ones) ... that’s it. No testing, no contact, no blather-by-bureaucrat. They send back the BCs even. In some states the requirements are very complicated, I hear. I say good for the Home School organizations in Il for keeping a close watch on this. Anyone who home schools in that state should read any proposed bill and scream if there is any sign of intrusion. I don’t know what would prevent some parents in AZ from claiming to home school their kids while actually sitting them in front of Oprah type programming for 7 hours a day; except perhaps self shame. All I can tell you is what my kids are learning, and that it is far superior to what they’d have learned so far in public schools.


13 posted on 02/07/2011 6:02:33 PM PST by ri4dc (Cut your cable, Break Wind for the TSA, Flush Twice in 2012, and STOP ROTUS Now!)
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To: stormer

A while back. Read it on www.SoundPolitics.com. They (Olympia) were trying to integrate home schooled kids into the mix because the home schooled kids always scored higher on tests but were separated out. Don’t know where it went though.


14 posted on 02/07/2011 6:03:24 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White)
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To: DeaconBenjamin

Here in MN we have to submit forms to the local district,which then sends them to the state, each year. Also, if neither parent has at least a bachelor’s degree grades must be submitted quarterly.


15 posted on 02/07/2011 6:05:27 PM PST by Spudx7
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To: ReverendJames
Two words should take care of it:

SCREW THEM!!!

16 posted on 02/07/2011 6:05:39 PM PST by Jerrybob
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To: GeronL

I home schooled in the state of Washington, a notorius blue state, where every year I had to register my home student. No biggy for either of us.

It appears Washington just keeps track of homeschoolers. I was supposed to keep records and did for the first 18 months. As they never contacted me, and he was tested annually for progress by a public school teacher who operated an independent testing business (his own daughter was home schooled), I slacked off on the record keeping. My student was excelling across the board on all subjects.

He was capable of taking the GED during the summer of his 16th year, but slacked off until his 17th birthday, and took the test a couple days afterwards. He passed with better than average scores.

That the state of Illinois has decided to keep better track of who is being home schooled shouldn’t panic anyone.


17 posted on 02/07/2011 6:05:51 PM PST by SatinDoll
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To: DeaconBenjamin
In Maryland, when we lived there, the government school police found homeschoolers by asking the government schooled kids on the first day of school if the kids knew anyone who should be in school that wasn't.

See!...By going to government school, the children even learn how to be compliant government informants.

Uh oh! Someone is sure to say that I am a troll for stating the truth about the government kiddie prisons ( oops!**public** “schools”)

18 posted on 02/07/2011 6:07:46 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: SaveTheChief; DeaconBenjamin

I see a huge migration to Texas at the rate things are going in the blue & purple states.


19 posted on 02/07/2011 6:12:39 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle. ~Lincoln)
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To: DeaconBenjamin
“This is just the first step toward establishing, I think, some accountability. I think people do a good job at this, but how do we know that everybody does?”

Homeschoolers should be held to the **exact** same standards as government imprisoned kids (oops! public schools). If complete illiteracy and innumeracy is passing for government held kids, then that should be the standard for homeschoolers.

In other words if government has no standards for the kids imprisoned in its collectivist "schools", then homeschoolers don't need standards either

20 posted on 02/07/2011 6:12:39 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: Jerrybob

I’m thinking that’s basically what was said by the parents home school organization.


21 posted on 02/07/2011 6:12:46 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White)
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To: DeaconBenjamin
Home-schooled students must receive an education equivalent to public schooling, according to current Illinois state law.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

He is kidding? Isn't he? Illiteracy and innumeracy isn't hard to beat! :-)

22 posted on 02/07/2011 6:14:15 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: DeaconBenjamin
Aliens do not have to register and people do not have to prove who they are top vote but we are going to register kids. America has gone crazy!
23 posted on 02/07/2011 6:15:14 PM PST by RocketRoland
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To: ri4dc

I don’t know what would prevent some parents in AZ from claiming to home school their kids while actually sitting them in front of Oprah type programming for 7 hours a day; except perhaps self shame.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Parents who would do that are more than willing to turn them over to the state for free babysitting. The **last** thing these lazy parents want is to have the ankle biters around to interrupt Oprah.


24 posted on 02/07/2011 6:17:53 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: DeaconBenjamin
I think people do a good job at this, but how do we know that everybody does?”

why don't you just concentrate on making sure every public schooler does a good job, jackbutt... i can't stand these meddlers...

25 posted on 02/07/2011 6:19:20 PM PST by latina4dubya ( self-proclaimed tequila snob)
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To: bamahead; Eric Blair 2084

Nanny state ping.


26 posted on 02/07/2011 6:19:38 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: DeaconBenjamin
“I was surprised to learn that in Illinois, there are virtually no rules or regulations relative to the concept of home schooling,” Maloney said. “This is just the first step toward establishing, I think, some accountability. I think people do a good job at this, but how do we know that everybody does?”

And he's ASSuming that PUBLIC SCHOOLS have accountability and do a good job?

Who bought him off? Or what's he been smoking?

27 posted on 02/07/2011 6:21:31 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: DeaconBenjamin

Here’s the HSLDA analysis:
Senate Bill 136: Requires Registration of All Children Attending Home-Based Private Schools
Sponsors:
Sen. Edward D. Maloney
Summary:
This bill would change existing law to require that the parents of all children attending private schools in Illinois annually register their children with the State Board of Education. Additionally, the Board of Education is given authority to prescribe the procedure by which parents must register their children, meaning the Board would be free to require almost any kind of information as part of the registration process.

HSLDA’s Position:
Oppose.
Action Requested:
1. If you live in his district (Senate District 18, which includes parts of Lyons, Palos, Worth, Chicago, and Orland Townships in Cook County) contact Senator Maloney and ask him to withdraw his bill. You can also use our legislative toolbox to find your Senate district. Personal visits and phone calls have the most impact. Letters and emails are useful as well. Your firm but courteous message can be as simple as:

“Please withdraw SB 136. Studies show that private education prepares students for college better than public schools. There is no need for government to expand into an area that is already so successful. Existing mandates on private education are sufficient.”

Springfield Office:
Senator 18th District
119A Capitol Building
Springfield, IL 62706
(217) 782-5145
(217) 557-3930 FAX

District Office:
10400 S. Western Ave.
Chicago, IL 60643
(773) 881-4180
(773) 881-4243 FAX

Additional District Office:
6965 W. 111th Street
Worth, IL 60482
(708) 448-3518
(708) 448-3535 FAX

Home:
Edward D. Maloney
2808 West 11th Street
Chicago, IL 60655
(773) 233-6638

2. After you contact him, call or email us to confirm so we can keep a tally of how many people have contacted him.

3. Pass this message on to other homeschoolers in Senator Maloney’s district.

Status:
1/27/2011 Senate - Filed by Sen. Edward D. Maloney
1/27/2011 Senate - First Reading
1/27/2011 Senate - Referred to Assignments

Background:
Right now, Illinois homeschools are not required to register because
they are classified as private schools. Many other states
likewise do not require homeschoolers to register, including New
Jersey, Indiana, Oklahoma, Missouri, Alabama, Michigan, Texas, etc.

There is a common myth that Illinois homeschools are unregulated.
While Illinois homeschools don’t waste time processing bureaucratic
red tape, they must comply with significant substantive mandates,
including the requirement that they teach the branches of education
taught to children of corresponding age and grade in the public
schools, that they teach in the English language, and, if challenged,
meet the burden of showing that they have in good faith provided an
adequate course of instruction in the prescribed branches of learning.
This sensible combination of no red tape plus meaningful mandates has
protected freedom in Illinois and produced outstanding academic
results.

SB 136 would give the Illinois Department of Education literally
unlimited power to dictate what information homeschoolers must submit.
Since the Department is composed exclusively of staff who are
appointed or hired, rather than elected, they have little or no
incentive to respond to the voice of citizens. In other states, when
education departments have been given power to act against citizens’
wishes, they have sometimes brushed aside overwhelming opposition and
done as they pleased to homeschoolers.

SB 136 is the greatest threat to Illinois homeschoolers in more than a
decade. HSLDA and Illinois Christian Home Educators are united in
opposing the bill and are committed to protect your freedom. This
fight belongs to every Illinois homeschool family.

Thank you for standing with us for freedom!


28 posted on 02/07/2011 6:22:12 PM PST by ZGuy
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To: wintertime
I agree with you.

“This is just the first step toward establishing, I think, some accountability. I think people teachers do a good job at this, but how do we know that everybody teacher does?”

29 posted on 02/07/2011 6:23:32 PM PST by Waryone (RINOs, Elites, and Socialists - on the endangered list, soon to become extinct.)
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To: SatinDoll

except that its none of their damned business. They don’t need to track, grade, test or anything. They should have NOTHING whatsoever to do with it.


30 posted on 02/07/2011 6:24:34 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.stink-eye.net/forum/index.php for FR backup site!)
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To: SatinDoll
“This is just the first step toward establishing, I think, some accountability

Thats the scary part from the mouth of the Nazi.

31 posted on 02/07/2011 6:25:54 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.stink-eye.net/forum/index.php for FR backup site!)
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To: ReverendJames; stormer

When I first started homeschooling in Oregon 17 years ago, we had to register and test every year and file the test results with the Educational Service District.

Then they changed it to test every other year, then on the same schedule as the public schools.

We are now supposed to keep the scores “available” rather than file them with ESD. The assumption is that they don’t want the records available to journalists or the public. If they don’t collect and collate them, then they don’t have the information to provide upon request. “Sorry, we don’t keep those records”.

HS were kicking the PS butts on statewide testing, makes for bad publicity when they want raise taxes “for the chilrun”.


32 posted on 02/07/2011 6:31:06 PM PST by Valpal1 ("No clever arrangement of bad eggs ever made a good omelet." ~ C.S. Lewis)
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To: DeaconBenjamin

“I think people do a good job at this, but how do we know that everybody does?”

Spoken like a veteran bureaucrat.

“We know damn straight that the public schools aren’t doing the job, but let’s focus on the home schoolers. We get them straightened out and then we can get the public schools on track.”

I doubt he can walk and chew gun without concentrating...


33 posted on 02/07/2011 6:48:23 PM PST by DoughtyOne (All hail the Kenyan Prince Obama, Lord of the Skid-mark, constantly soiling himself and our nation.)
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To: wintertime

Bingo.


34 posted on 02/07/2011 6:49:03 PM PST by DoughtyOne (All hail the Kenyan Prince Obama, Lord of the Skid-mark, constantly soiling himself and our nation.)
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To: DeaconBenjamin

PA law requires the homeschooling parent to be a high school graduate, and affirm on the notarized affidavit that he or she has not been convicted of any of various moral turpitude offenses in the past 5 years. The student must have received all mandated health services (medical and dental exams). The parent must keep a log of 900 hours of study. The parent must submit a list of academic objectives to the superintendent of schools. Get the student evaluated by a professional every year (about $100). Bring the evaluator’s report, log, medical documentation, and next year’s objectives and affidavit to the superintendent of schools, for approval and “permission,” ie absence of an objection, if you’re lucky.

Also, superintendent’s approval on a work permit is still required even though school attendance is not, at 17.

If that doesn’t make you mad...


35 posted on 02/07/2011 6:49:45 PM PST by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (BYOST -- bring your own sark tag. Thank you.)
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To: DeaconBenjamin
Registration.

Then mandates.

Then taxation.

Then banning.

Stop them before registration.

36 posted on 02/07/2011 6:51:47 PM PST by Lazamataz (If Illegal Aliens are Undocumented Workers, then Thieves are Undocumented Shoppers.)
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To: DeaconBenjamin

Camel’s nose. Cut it off before it gets under the tent.


37 posted on 02/07/2011 7:30:52 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Clintonfatigued

Not legislatively, no. The irony is that in a state run by statist where every human act is limited, monitored and/or controlled they forgot to control homeschooling.

We were so far off their radar they wondered, “who wouldn’t be enrolled in our wonderful government schools?”

We’re the loosest in the 50 states that I know of. I was going to move to Florida or Texas, but they’re more draconian that “wild, wild west” Illinois. Go figure.


38 posted on 02/07/2011 7:33:39 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: SatinDoll
That the state of Illinois has decided to keep better track of who is being home schooled shouldn’t panic anyone.

Speak for yourself. I enjoy my liberty and the law is unnecessary. We don't need it.

39 posted on 02/07/2011 7:36:15 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: RocketRoland

Excellent post.


40 posted on 02/07/2011 7:37:17 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: RocketRoland

You just reminded me of a story. In traffic court in Illinois there are a lot of violations for driving without a license. These violators consistently don’t speak English, pay in cash and, after being reprimanded and told by the judge to not drive without a license, leave the courtroom, head down to their parked vehicles and drive away.

Once government discovers an income stream that won’t complain they milk it, the laws be damned.


41 posted on 02/07/2011 7:40:00 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Valpal1

I had a public school education. It was in New York City. Back when I was in school they really did provide an education. When I saw what my kids were being taught I laid into the teacher and asked what kind of cr*p was this?!! Big difference. Now it’s the home schooled kids who excel and are way out in front.


42 posted on 02/07/2011 7:43:51 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White)
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To: wintertime
The Story of Two Buses

by Gary North

Picture this. You're driving down the highway with your nine-year-old son. You're in the middle lane. On your right, one behind the other, are two buses. The bus in front is painted white. The bus behind is painted yellow. The bus in front has its windows painted over. The bus behind does not.

Your son asks you a question. "What are those two buses, Daddy?" You tell him that they are two very different kinds of buses. "How are they different?" he asks. You explain that on the first bus are prisoners who are being taken to jail. On the second bus are students who are being taken to school. "But how is that different?" your son asks. That's what I'm asking, too.

You tell your son that the men on the first bus are required to get on that bus. Then your son asks you if the students on the yellow bus have a choice in the matter. You think about it. Neither group has any choice in the matter. Somebody tells the members of both groups that they must get on that bus and stay on that bus until the bus comes to its destination.

Your son says he doesn't understand. So, you try to make it clear to him. You tell that the people on the white bus have committed crimes. They are bad people. They are being taken to jail. The people on the yellow bus are good people. They are being taken to school. Your son asks: "Why do they make the good people go on the bus?" That's what I'm asking, too.

Remember, you're talking to a nine-year-old. Nine-year-olds are not very sophisticated. They need clear answers. So, you had better be prepared to provide clear answers.

You tell your son that the good people on the yellow bus are being taken to school for their own good. Your son asks if the people on the white bus are being taken to jail, but not for their own good. No, you tell him. They are being taken to jail for their own good, too. Your son asks, "Then what's the difference?"

The difference is, you explain to your son, that the people on the white bus are very bad and society intends to make them better. Your son asks: "Is society taking the people on the yellow bus to school in order to make them worse?" No, you tell him. Society is taking them to school in order to make them better people, too. "Then what's the difference?"

The difference is, you explain to your son, the people on the white bus are dangerous people. In order to make society safer, society puts them in jail. The people on the yellow bus are not dangerous. "Then why are they forced to go to a place where they don't want to go?" your son asks. "Because it's good for them," you answer. "But isn't that why the people on the white bus are being taken to jail?" he asks.

You are getting frustrated. You tell your son that they're required to get on the bus because when they are young they don't know that it is a good thing for them to go to school. They don't want to go to school. But they're supposed to go to school. Your son replies that this sounds just like the people in the white bus. But they're supposed to go to jail, you tell him. It's for their own good. They're going to be better people if they go to jail.

Isn't that right? Isn't the whole idea of sending people to jail to rehabilitate them? Aren't they supposed to become better people in jail? I mean, if they aren't going to become better people, why not just sell them into slavery and use the money to pay restitution to their victims? Why build jails? Why paint buses white?

You tell your son that the bad people have to go to jail in order to keep them off the streets. The problem is, this is one of the reasons why society requires students to go to school. People want keep the kids off the streets. They want to make certain that somebody in authority is in a position to tell the children what to do. They don't trust the children to make their own decisions. They also don't trust the criminals to make their own decisions.

This is more complicated than you thought. But you keep trying. You explain to your son that bad people must be kept from doing more bad things. Your son asks: "What are the bad things that kids do?" The light comes on. You tell your son that the children are dangerous to themselves, but the prisoners are dangerous to everybody else. The children may hurt themselves, but the prisoners may hurt other people. But your son wants to know why it is that the children must be taken to a school in order to keep them from hurting themselves, when they can stay home and not hurt themselves.

You tell your son that it's because people are not able to stay home with their children. Your son wants to know why not. You explain that both parents have to work to make enough money to live a good life. This means that somebody has to take care of their children. Your son wants to know why parents don't hire somebody to come into their home and take care of the children. Why don't they hire a teacher to take care of them? You explain that it is cheaper to hire one teacher to look after lots of students. Your son wants to know why it's cheaper to send children to school when it costs money to build schools, buy buses, hire drivers, and pay for gasoline.

This is a smart kid.

You explain that the people who have children force people who do not have children to pay for the schools. Your son asks if this is the same thing is stealing. "Isn't that what the people on the white bus did?" No, you explain, it's not stealing. Your son asks, "How is it different?" Now you have a problem. You have to explain the difference between taking money from someone to benefit yourself as a private citizen, which is what a criminal does, and taking money from someone to benefit yourself as a voter. This is not so easy to explain.

You explain to your son that when you vote to take money away from someone so that you can educate your child, this is different from sticking a gun into somebody's stomach and telling him that he has to turn over his money to you. Your son that asks if it would be all right to stick a gun in somebody's stomach if you intended to use the money to educate your child. No, you explain, it's not the same. When you tell someone that he has to educate your child in a school run by the government it's legal. When you tell somebody that he has to educate your child in a private school, where parents pay directly to hire teachers, it's illegal.

Your son then asks you if it's all right to take money from other people just so long as you hand over to the government the money to do the things that you want the government to do. You explain that this is correct. "But what if other people don't think that the government ought to be doing these things?" You explain that people don't have the right to tell the government not to do these things unless they can get more than half of the voters to tell the government to stop doing them. Your son sees the logic of this. He asks you: "Are the people in the white bus being taken to jail because there were not enough of them to win the election?" You know this can't be right, but it's hard to say why it's wrong.

Here is where you are so far. Society makes the prisoners go to jail. It sees these prisoners as dangerous. It wants to teach them to obey. Society makes children go to school. It sees these children as dangerous to themselves. It wants to teach them to obey. If it can teach both groups how to obey, society expects the world to improve. Society therefore uses tax money to pay for the operation of jails and schools. This includes paying for buses. But there is a difference. Prison buses are white. School buses are yellow.

There must be more to it than this.

So, you keep trying. Schools are run by the government to teach children how to make a living. Jails are run by the government to teach people how to stop stealing. Here is a major difference. "Do they teach prisoners how to make a good living?" your son asks. No, you tell him. The prison teaches them to obey. He asks: "Then why will they stop stealing when they get out of prison, if they don't know how to make a good living." Because, you explain, they will be afraid to do bad things any more. Your son asks if people in prison learn how to do bad things in prison. You admit that they do. "So," he asks, "we send people to prison and school so that they will learn how to make a good living? Only the difference is, the government pays for a place where bad people teach other bad people how to steal without getting caught, but in school, the government pays good people to teach children how to be good citizens and vote. So, the bad people learn how to steal from the good people without voting, and the good people learn how to steal from each other by voting. Is that how it works?"

That's how it works. Both systems use buses to take the students to school. But the colors are different.

In prison, prisoners sell illegal drugs. Students do the same in school. In prison, the food is terrible. It's not very good in school — possibly prepared by the same food service company. In prison, there are constant inspections. Guards keep taking roll to make sure everyone is present and accounted for. Teachers do the same in school. In prison, you aren't allowed to leave without permission. The same is true in school. In prison, bullies run the show. In school, they do, too. But there is a difference. Prison buses are white. School buses are yellow.

This is too extreme. The systems are different. Criminals are convicted in a court of law before they are sent to jail. Students, in contrast, are innocent. Some prisoners can get parole. The average term in prison for murder is under ten years. Students are put into the school system for twelve years. There is no parole.

Be thankful you are not in one of those buses. Either color.

43 posted on 02/07/2011 8:06:27 PM PST by DeaconBenjamin (A trillion here, a trillion there, soon you're NOT talking real money)
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To: DeaconBenjamin
Home-schooled students must receive an education equivalent to public schooling, according to current Illinois state law.

They sat that bar way too low didn't they?

44 posted on 02/07/2011 8:27:35 PM PST by Graybeard58 (Of course Obama loves his country. The thing is, Sarah loves mine.)
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To: Clintonfatigued

Illinois is hostile to anything to do with freedom.

Come join us in Oklahoma! It’s always been one of the best states for homeschoolers. :-)


45 posted on 02/07/2011 9:44:53 PM PST by Pining_4_TX
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To: latina4dubya

Do you have a sister?


46 posted on 02/07/2011 10:34:52 PM PST by BenKenobi (one of the worst mistakes anybody can make is to bet against Americans.")
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To: DeaconBenjamin

Be thankful you are not in one of those buses. Either color.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Very cute essay! :-)

I am pleased that Gary North wrote it. When people with this level of influence write this stuff, it means that the idea is now mainstream.

There is little difference between collectivist government schooling and prison. The purpose of government schooling from the very beginning was, and continues to be, to make our citizens compliant little prisoners of the state.


47 posted on 02/08/2011 12:59:01 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: SatinDoll
How well is the State of Illinois keeping track of its own prisoners ( oops! “students”)? How well is it doing in producing literate and numerate graduates?

I have an idea!

Government kiddie prison workers ( Oops! “school employees”) are doing a flamingly horrible job with its charges. Maybe Homeschooling parents ( who are doing spectacularly well with their students) should be put in charge of them!

48 posted on 02/08/2011 1:07:48 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: ReverendJames
The following is true of **ALL** government schools in this nation ( the good, the bad, and the ugly!):

**ALL** government schools in this nation are GODLESS. ALL of them teach children to think and reason through the worldview lens of GODLESSNESS.

**NO** government school in this nation is neutral! It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a religiously, politically, and culturally neutral education. It is axiomatic! **ALL** government schools today **establish** the religion of godless government secularism and taxpayers are under police threat to pay for it.

**ALL** government schools are: collectivist, socialist-funded, compulsory, government owned and run, and supervised by a voting mob ( comrade committee “school boards”).

**ALL** government schools treat children ( who have committed no crime) like prisoners. Prisoners have it somewhat better in that they are not segregated by age. There is more economic, educational, and class diversity in a typical prison, and prisoners do not have the godless state religion of Human Secularism **FORCED** upon them and pumped into their brains.

How can being taught to think godlessly be a “good” education?

How can it be a good education to learn ( day after day) that the government has enormous police power to take money from a neighbor to pay for a service that the parents want for free? Hey! If the government can use police threat to get money for thousands of other “free” things.

How can it be good for the government to teach children to be comfortable with voting mobs, collectivism, socialism, compulsion, and government ownership of the lives, deaths, and even their **minds**??

Our government schools are NOT failures. This was the plan from the very beginning of our modern compulsory government school system in the mid-1800s. Horace Mann and John Dewey, if they were alive today, would be **THRILLED** to see their success.

49 posted on 02/08/2011 1:24:09 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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To: ReverendJames
I laid into the teacher and asked what kind of cr*p was this?!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So?...How much good did that do?

50 posted on 02/08/2011 1:25:29 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid!)
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