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“Revolt” over: House GOP leadership agrees to caucus’s demands to cut spending by $100 billion
Hot Air ^ | February 9, 2011 7:48 pm | Allahpundit

Posted on 02/09/2011 8:41:55 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach

The “revolt” ends in triumph according to Roll Call, as quoted by K-Lo at the Corner:

House Republican leaders have agreed to a key conservative demand that they make good on their campaign pledge to reduce fiscal 2011 spending to $100 billion less than President Barack Obama’s budget request, GOP aides said Wednesday.

According to a GOP leadership aide, Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) and other leaders are working with Republican appropriators, the Republican Study Committee and other conservatives on a “unified” strategy to reduce spending beyond the $74 billion in cuts they had already planned. The cuts, which would only apply to non-defense discretionary spending, would come as part of a continuing resolution to fund the government between March and the end of the fiscal year…

It remains unclear how Republicans will make the additional $26 billion in cuts.

Consider this a correction of my earlier post, where I said the GOP had initially proposed only $58 billion in cuts. If you’re wondering what the extra $26 billion means in practical terms, let’s bust out the calculator and do some math. Assuming CBO’s projected deficit this year of $1.5 trillion, i.e. $1,500 billion, we’re slipping $4.1 billion deeper into the budgetary hole every single day. Note well: That’s not federal spending per day, that’s what’s being added to the deficit per day. Cutting an extra $26 billion will thus erase a little less than … one week of new liabilities. That’s what the big “revolt” is over.

Via RCP, say it with me: The deficit is too damn high.


(Excerpt) Read more at hotair.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: budgetcuts
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1 posted on 02/09/2011 8:41:57 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: rottndog; Wuli; E. Pluribus Unum; Professional Engineer; Matchett-PI; Army Air Corps; ...
Related thread:

NASA climate programs being eyed for the budget axe ( Yes,...start with Jim Hansen's GISS....)

2 posted on 02/09/2011 8:44:01 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Fuzzy math, it was reported earlier today that they were going go whole hog and maybe cut spending 32billion. Who is lying to who here.


3 posted on 02/09/2011 8:46:02 PM PST by org.whodat
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Attention RINO’s

All your base are belong to us.

Signed, tea party.


4 posted on 02/09/2011 8:46:41 PM PST by Crim (The Obama Doctrine : A doctrine based on complete ignorance,applied with extreme incompetence..)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I thought it was a $34 billion cut.


5 posted on 02/09/2011 8:47:00 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.stink-eye.net/forum/index.php for FR backup site!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

So it begins. This is what I’ve been waiting for to see if it would happen. I wondered if the conservatives wouldn’t balk.


6 posted on 02/09/2011 8:49:31 PM PST by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! You can vote Democrat when you're dead.)
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To: org.whodat
At hotAir:

Report: House GOP in revolt against leadership, demanding steeper budget cuts

******************************************

posted at 5:48 pm on February 9, 2011 by Allahpundit

Actually, says Rich Lowry, they’re “almost” in open revolt, which means … I’m not sure.

We’re hearing that the Republican Study Committee and GOP freshmen were almost in open revolt at the Republican conference this morning over the initial round of cuts set out by Paul Ryan. The Ryan ceiling falls shorts of the headline number of $100 billion set out in the Pledge, and is therefore considered vastly insufficient. Says a source familiar with the meeting, “It sent a clear unequivocal message to leadership — ‘Houston, you’ve got a problem.’” The leadership assured conservatives at a RSC lunch later in the day that the message had been received. Says a GOP leadership aide, “The bill that passes the House will cut substantially more.”…

A GOP aide close to House conservatives tells NRO: “If the bill that comes to the floor next week does not get to the $100 billion mark ($378 billion in total non-security spending for the year), our plan has always been to offer an amendment to close the gap. So if they come in at $420 billion for non-security, we’d go for another $42 billion in cuts to get down to the $378 billion total. Leadership has said that their plan is just the ‘first bite at the apple.’ We understand that, but a lot of conservatives just think the first bite needs to be bigger.”

Cantor claimed after today’s lunch with Obama that “we’re serious about cutting spending,” but the rebellion against the GOP’s proposal was already underway last night when Jeff Flake and Cynthia Lummis voted against it on the Appropriations Committee because it didn’t go far enough. They want to cut $100 billion this year, the figure Republicans initially promised to trim in the Pledge to America before they started inching away from it and settled on the new figure of $58 billion. Which is super, but even that larger figure is less than 10 percent of the $1.5 trillion deficit that’s projected for this year. It’s a token cut, more significant as a signal to the base that “we mean business” than a meaningful dent in fiscal insanity.

I think it’s this simple: If a Balanced Budget Amendment doesn’t gain serious traction in Congress soon — the debt ceiling debate might be its only hope — then realistically only a fiscal catastrophe will force the feds to balance their books. Even Rand Paul, who’s pushing a whopping $500 billion in cuts, acknowledges that that’s merely a first step given the magnitude of the problem. In fact, I wonder if the “open revolt” is a bit of kabuki being practiced by the House GOP to make them look like uncompromising hardliners on spending despite the fact that the deeper cuts they’re demanding are still comparatively insignificant. The media’s practicing that kabuki too: Behold CNN describing the proposed cuts of $58 billion as “massive” even though that figure represents just three percent or so of this year’s deficit. And here’s a new piece from National Journal lamenting the fact that Obama’s budget proposal would cut $3 billion in federal energy assistance to the poor, which will achieve instant talking-point status on the left as a rationale for deficit spending into oblivion.

Kent Conrad, who made himself a lame duck a few weeks ago when he said he won’t run again, is going to take a shot today at convincing Senate Democrats that the debt really, truly is a looming disaster that needs to be dealt with ASAP. That’s also super, but the only way to seriously deal with the debt is through entitlement reform, and neither party will be touching that with a presidential election next year. (That’s why they keep tossing this political football around.) But even talking about it is progress at this point. I think. I hope?

7 posted on 02/09/2011 8:55:54 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
I assume the $100 billion they're talking about is in addition to defunding Obamacare since that's scheduled for a vote next week. If so, the first thing they should cut is the $53 billion Obama wants to spend on high-speed rail.

Too bad they can't defund Obama's salary. He never does any work. Destroying America doesn't count!

8 posted on 02/09/2011 8:57:10 PM PST by abbyg55
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To: Crim; Free Vulcan; GeronL

See #7.


9 posted on 02/09/2011 8:57:39 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

In other words they are making promises, pass this and we promise *wink* to get more later.

They NEED to cut $1.5 TRILLION this year. That simple.


10 posted on 02/09/2011 9:03:04 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.stink-eye.net/forum/index.php for FR backup site!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
So we have Mr. Tarp Ryan rolling over and Mr Tarp Cantor sucking up to obamma, dinning with, and you wonder how the stupid party won anything. The two tarps need to be voted out of office.
11 posted on 02/09/2011 9:05:23 PM PST by org.whodat
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Departments of Energy & Education
ATF

How much are those 3 per year?


12 posted on 02/09/2011 9:17:10 PM PST by samtheman
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

$100 Billion dollars is a joke, we have a $1.5 Trillion budget deficit and add $1.8 Trillion to the National Debt and these guys are kidding themselves.

We can’t just reduce the deficit by 7 or 8% Boehner and the leadership is only willing to do 2 or 3% of the deficit and 1% of spending.


13 posted on 02/09/2011 9:20:43 PM PST by Steelers6
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To: samtheman
"Departments of Energy & Education

ATF "

HHS

HUD

Fed Reserve

IRS

DOJ

FDA

FFA

14 posted on 02/09/2011 9:27:16 PM PST by matthew fuller (My list: Bachman, Barbour, Bolton, Cain, Liz Cheney, Daniels, DeMint, Inhofe, Palin, and Pawlenty .)
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To: Steelers6

“We can’t just reduce the deficit by 7 or 8% Boehner and the leadership is only willing to do 2 or 3% of the deficit and 1% of spending.”

It’s actually more than it seems. Once you pull out debt interest, entitlements, and defense, there’s not that much left and some of the remaining (like courts and border control...lol) are legitimate expenditures.

The BIG PRIZE is Social Security - basically turning it into a welfare program, with means-testing. That’s where the real savings comes in.


15 posted on 02/09/2011 9:29:08 PM PST by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
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To: matthew fuller

FCC


16 posted on 02/09/2011 9:32:20 PM PST by samtheman
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To: samtheman

I forgot one of the worst, EPA.


17 posted on 02/09/2011 9:52:49 PM PST by matthew fuller (My list: Bachman, Barbour, Bolton, Cain, Liz Cheney, Daniels, DeMint, Inhofe, Palin, and Pawlenty .)
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To: BobL

“The BIG PRIZE is Social Security - basically turning it into a welfare program, with means-testing. That’s where the real savings comes in.”

So you are advocating rewarding the lazy bums with retirement while the people who actually paid into the system get screwed. Thanks a lot.


18 posted on 02/09/2011 9:55:14 PM PST by Reddy (B.O. stinks)
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To: BobL

Big savings are also in the Pentagon (mistakenly generalized as “defense spending). If we closed down those bases in 120 countries, we could make a tremendous savings. Unfortuately, Rand Paul has proposed the only plan which makes any cuts in the Pentagon.


19 posted on 02/09/2011 9:57:08 PM PST by Captain Kirk (Q)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
...reduce fiscal 2011 spending to $100 billion less than President Barack Obama’s budget request

It's already weasel time for the GOP House? This sounds like the old "the cuts are not really less money than last year, but rather are less of an increase than was planned" scam the scumbag politicians have been pulling forever. Really? Republicans are "cutting" Ubanga's insanely bloated budget request and expecting people to believe that they are fiscally responsible??

How freaking disappointing...

20 posted on 02/09/2011 9:57:35 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

When this bill passes the House, passes the Senate, passes reconciliation, and is signed into law by PResident Obama, the elite politicians in this country will have publically admitted the country is doomed to oblivion and there is no rescue possible before a complete collapse and possible dark ages or rebirth, depending upon the will and fortitude of a broken and destitute North American populace.

It’s all over folks, every single one of your(our) special interest payments from the governments’ largesse is going to be defaulted on, every military installation overseas will be withered away, every government bondholder left with nothing more than kindling, and every elite in society fighting like cannibals for the scraps of the empire.

The world economy is going to simultaneously revolt against the Federal Reserve status quo framework and substantially collapse... eventually... the timing can go on as bubbling through debt transfer payments are built upon prior bubbles, but within the Gen X lifetime the entire scheme collapses.

No one remembers the names of the last Senators and Generals of Late Rome....


21 posted on 02/09/2011 9:59:22 PM PST by JerseyHighlander (p.s. The word 'bloggers' is not in the freerepublic spellcheck dictionary?!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Ok.. most House Republicans are RINOS.. much to be done..
To be done for the primarys..
22 posted on 02/09/2011 10:00:20 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

It we are to make substantial cuts, we’re going to need a budget cutting president in 2012 along with a larger number of aggressive legislators. And then we need to back them to the hilt! Camp out on the capital grounds if that need be.


23 posted on 02/09/2011 10:00:57 PM PST by upsdriver (to undo the damage the "intellectual elites" have done. . . . . Sarah Palin for President!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

$100 billion is a rounding error of the projected 2011 deficit.

The new congress is a fraud.


24 posted on 02/09/2011 10:03:26 PM PST by UnwashedPeasant (Don't nuke me, bro)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; JerseyHighlander

If they agree to this they have just owned Obama’s deficit.

I agree with post #21. If they agree to this they have just admitted that there is no possibility of saving ourselves. We prefer economic collapse to making even the slightest cut. We are willing to admit that every dollar of Obama’s deficit is necessary except for that last couple of percent.

That was not the reason we sent these people to Washington, to help Obama justify his deficit or the help him govern. We sent them to turn this ship around and stop this president before he does any more damage.

Is it that hard to roll it back even to the out-of-control Bush deficit? Not asking for miracles here, even the Bush deficits are starting to look like Calvin Coolidge. And they can’t even do that.

Brilliant.


25 posted on 02/09/2011 10:10:44 PM PST by marron
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To: UnwashedPeasant

100 billion is 10% of what we need to do at the very least for now.

It is a start.

Or to channel Churchill...”Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. but it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.”

To channel me... the F’ckin fight is not won in a day.


26 posted on 02/09/2011 10:18:38 PM PST by Fantomw
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

$100 Billion is a small fraction of any given bailout.

We need TRILLIONS in cuts.


27 posted on 02/09/2011 10:28:27 PM PST by Uncle Miltie (0bamanomics: Punish Success, Reward Failure. Destroying America is the point.)
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To: Uncle Miltie
A $100 billion is peanuts, We need to be talking a minimum of $500 to $800 billion and the wholesale defunding of worthless, overlapping agencies and departments.
28 posted on 02/09/2011 11:56:45 PM PST by MasterGunner01 (To err is human; to forgive is not our policy. -- SEAL Team SIX)
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To: matthew fuller

Of course. EPA.

Demons from Mordor.


29 posted on 02/10/2011 3:16:51 AM PST by samtheman
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To: Captain Kirk

“Big savings are also in the Pentagon (mistakenly generalized as “defense spending). If we closed down those bases in 120 countries, we could make a tremendous savings. Unfortuately, Rand Paul has proposed the only plan which makes any cuts in the Pentagon.”

I always get a bit worried about pulling ourselves in and no longer being a world power. I realize the temptation, and it’s likely to happen anyway, but often the consequences are as nice as we may want (like World War 2 in the last century, or Japan developing nukes in this century).

I guess I just think differently than the Paul’s.


30 posted on 02/10/2011 4:43:34 AM PST by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
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To: Reddy

“So you are advocating rewarding the lazy bums with retirement while the people who actually paid into the system get screwed. Thanks a lot.”

First off, it already does. The rules of the system are very highly skewed towards giving a MUCH HIGHER return to people that earn a relatively small amount of money, than people that earn a relatively large amount of money (and yes, I’m accounting for the wage cap)...so you’re already getting taken there.

Second, for the same reason it is skewed, I also don’t want to see old people starving in our streets, which I lot of people here don’t seem to mind.

Third, the MONEY IS GONE. The generations that paid into it already spent it - they spent it as it came in (plus about $12 trillion on top of that). Everyone knows it. They collectively chose to use SS to augment the income tax to fund all of their important projects - like public housing, education, PBS, Vietnam, windmills, putting people on the Moon...etc, without paying the taxes needed for it. I know, not everyone supported everything above, and I’m sure it’s likely that you didn’t support most of them - but collectively, through their elected officials, these generations chose to spend, rather than save their money.

So what happens now. If I have $250,000 in my IRA and Bank of New York Mellon (I get a kick out of their name), for some stupid reason, lets me borrow all of that money to fly around the world for a year, first class - I am OUT OF LUCK for retirement (unless I figure out a way to pay it back), because they sure as heck are not going to ask my neighbor to repay it for me.

So what you’re essentially doing is DEMANDING that my kids and my future grandkids pay for YOUR retirement because your generation chose to spend that money instead of save it. That may be fine with you, but I do have a problem with that. I don’t want my kids paying the price for GORGING of prior generations.


31 posted on 02/10/2011 4:57:16 AM PST by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
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To: BobL

Well....IMHO it is just a return the original vision of the founders who scorned world empires, power politics, entangling alliances, and rejected militarism.


32 posted on 02/10/2011 7:50:59 AM PST by Captain Kirk (Q)
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To: BobL

Well....IMHO it is just a return the original vision of the founders who scorned world empires, power politics, entangling alliances, and rejected militarism.


33 posted on 02/10/2011 7:51:26 AM PST by Captain Kirk (Q)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

TEA PARTY TAKING CHARGE AND CHARTING A NEW COURSE IN D.C.! WATCH OUT RINOS AND BLUE DOGS, YOU’LL SOON BE ON THE ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST!!!


34 posted on 02/10/2011 8:03:00 AM PST by Hotlanta Mike (TeaNami)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

If they were proposing cutting $1 trillion of spending, then I’d be impressed. Cutting $100 billion is but a drop in the bucket.


35 posted on 02/10/2011 8:19:15 AM PST by meyer (We will not sit down and shut up.)
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To: Reddy
So you are advocating rewarding the lazy bums with retirement while the people who actually paid into the system get screwed.

There's a lot of supposedly conservative people on this very site advocating just that - the total disconnection of SS payouts with the amount that an individual paid in. We need LESS welfare (a LOT less) in this country, not more.

What needs to happen is that when people declare retirement, the SS system adds up all that you paid in (I'd say with interest, though I see that it will be a problem prying that from the government thugs) and uses it to buy that individual an annuity based on actuarial calculations and your accumulated "investment". People that paid $100,000 in should get a much bigger retirement supplement from SS than someone that paid only $5000 in. Likewise, someone retiring at 70 should get a lot more per month than someone retiring at 60.

36 posted on 02/10/2011 8:27:06 AM PST by meyer (We will not sit down and shut up.)
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To: BobL

Aha! I knew it! You are no where near retirement.

Here’s the point. SS was/is a program set up to forcibly take money from citizens to replace/augment retirement savings for individuals (because they are too stupid to do it themselves). In between its beginning and now congress spent the money that was supposed to be set aside in the system so that now the SS system is insolvent. This is theft. Congress should be prosecuted for this crime. Then make them repay the money.

I have 3 siblings. My family and 1 sibling and their family has tried to prepare for retirement by savings other than SS. But receiving SS has been included in our retirement prospectus because OUR MONEY WAS TAKEN FOR THIS. In the meantime, the other 2 siblings have not saved a dime. They have bought new cars, etc. (I’ve never had a new car (: ) Why should they be rewarded for not saving while we are penalized FOR SAVING. That is a typical liberal response....means test! Socialism at it’s finest.

Means testing of SS is not a conservative position.

Your


37 posted on 02/10/2011 10:45:46 AM PST by Reddy (B.O. stinks)
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To: meyer

Exactly.... there is no way that the government should get a free pass on this. Conservatives who endorse throwing up their hands and walking away from this issue and letting it become another give-away to the “poor” should have their heads examined.


38 posted on 02/10/2011 10:50:48 AM PST by Reddy (B.O. stinks)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Believe it...when I see it written into law...and read the details.


39 posted on 02/10/2011 11:20:54 AM PST by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: Captain Kirk

“Well....IMHO it is just a return the original vision of the founders who scorned world empires, power politics, entangling alliances, and rejected militarism.”

If you’re into trying to “live off the land” and becoming another Albania or North Korea (economically speaking), more power to you. I prefer not to have our economy land on the ash heap of history, which is ALWAYS the case when a country thinks that they can go it alone.


40 posted on 02/10/2011 6:38:38 PM PST by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
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To: Captain Kirk

I heard you the first time...LOL.


41 posted on 02/10/2011 6:39:07 PM PST by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
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To: Reddy

“Means testing of SS is not a conservative position.”

Neither is opposing selling off our highways to foreign interests. I guess any of us can define conservative positions any way we want.

I’m sorry that you worked under an income tax surcharge that was given the misleading name “Social Security”, but it was quite OBVIOUS to people who saw that Al Gore’s “Lockbox” was empty...and there was NO INTENTION of filling it. At that point, a person who reasonably planned their retirement would have accepted the fact that the money was gone and future generations would revolt at being told that THEY STOLE IT...essentially.

You may call yourself a conservative for sicking the government on my kids (and future grand kids) to pay for your retirement. I SURE AS HELL DO NOT.


42 posted on 02/10/2011 6:46:03 PM PST by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Boehner was being blackmailed. He was compromised, and that is why he cried; because he knew it was only a matter of time before he would be exposed.

Same thing with all the other congressional and senate RINOs. The Democrats have them all blackmailed. If they cave in to the conservatives, their sordid affairs will be exposed.

Better for them to retire while they can, because the country cannot survive with them capitulating to the commies.

43 posted on 02/10/2011 6:51:09 PM PST by meadsjn (Sarah 2012, or sooner)
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To: BobL

What do the Jeffersonian values of free trade, no entangling alliances, and free international cultural exchange (the policy I support) have to do with militarized, protectionists, centralized planned, nationalized states like North Korea and Albania?


44 posted on 02/11/2011 7:37:10 AM PST by Captain Kirk (Q)
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To: BobL

You don’t get it. US citizens ALREADY PAID for (SS) retirement. That money was STOLEN.

Usually in cases of criminal activity the perpetrators are found and put on trial, then sentenced.

Every former member of congress and former president needs to pay restitution to the SS fund... money they misappropriated.

Let’s first go after the estate of Ted Kennedy.


45 posted on 02/15/2011 10:05:26 AM PST by Reddy (B.O. stinks)
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To: Reddy

“Every former member of congress and former president needs to pay restitution to the SS fund... money they misappropriated.”

That’ll get you about $1B, what about the other $9.999T. You’ll feel good, but it won’t balance or pay off ANYTHING.

Restitution is only effective to the extent that the thieves have the money. THEY DON’T - and I guess the math is too tough for you to understand that.

It’s time you accept the fact that THE MONEY IS GONE and cannot be recovered.

The fact that you guys are going after the future earnings of MY KIDS and future grandkids, for the stupid policies of your generation (i.e., elect people that won’t pay for all their wonderful programs) MAKES ME SICK.


46 posted on 02/15/2011 3:45:20 PM PST by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
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To: BobL

I don’t want to see them cutting anything....they NEED to start amputating...as the gangrene i sspreading rapidly.


47 posted on 02/15/2011 3:46:45 PM PST by mo ("If you understand, no explanation is needed; if you do not, no explanation is possible")
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To: mo

“I don’t want to see them cutting anything....they NEED to start amputating...as the gangrene i sspreading rapidly.”

Could not agree more on the gangrene - it is really getting bad now. Clothing about to soar in price, food already soaring, oil at high levels, Chinese imports (i.e., practically everything we buy now) going up 20 to 30% in price. And heck, the dollar still hasn’t crashed.

I still get blasted for wanting to turn Social Security into a means-tested welfare program - but that’s ok, I’m doing it for my kids - who are about to be driven into a Third World country unless something is done.


48 posted on 02/15/2011 3:59:45 PM PST by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
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To: BobL

Dude, you have a problem.

It’s time you accept the fact that the money was TAKEN for the purpose of paying for retirement. It’s gone, but that DOES NOT RELINQUISH THE GOVERNMENT FROM THE OBLIGATION.

The fact that “you guys” could care less doesn’t make it ok to say screw you to everyone that paid into the retirement system.

“The fact that you guys are going after the future earnings of MY KIDS and future grandkids, for the stupid policies of your generation (i.e., elect people that won’t pay for all their wonderful programs) MAKES ME SICK.”

Guess I can blame you for the stupid policies of the current administration since they are occurring during the time period of “your generation”. You don’t even know how ridiculous you sound.


49 posted on 02/15/2011 4:03:19 PM PST by Reddy (B.O. stinks)
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To: Reddy

If you can sleep at night STEALING for today’s and tomorrow’s kids, I’m pretty much done debating you.


50 posted on 02/15/2011 4:08:43 PM PST by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
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