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U.S. Blames Drivers, Not Toyota
Wall Street Journal ^ | Feb. 9, 2011 | JOSH MITCHELL, MIKE RAMSEY and CHESTER DAWSON

Posted on 02/10/2011 10:20:57 AM PST by SgtHooper

Federal highway safety officials on Tuesday absolved the electronics in Toyota Motor Corp. vehicles for unintended acceleration, and said driver error was to blame for most of the incidents.

The findings of a 10-month-long study conducted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration identified three main causes for sudden acceleration in Toyota and Lexus models. Two of them—sticky accelerator pedals and floor mats that trapped the throttle in an open position—were the subject of a series of Toyota recalls.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: lawsuit; toyota
Apologies warranted?
1 posted on 02/10/2011 10:20:58 AM PST by SgtHooper
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To: SgtHooper

A lot of people will be crying in their beer as their imagined largesse from the law suits just went out the window.


2 posted on 02/10/2011 10:22:42 AM PST by Dudoight
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To: SgtHooper

Does no one remember that this exact same situation happened to Audi or Volvo back in the 80’s, and the eventual finding was exactly the same?


3 posted on 02/10/2011 10:25:16 AM PST by jdub (A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.)
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To: SgtHooper

Now they can work on the cause of those ‘SUV’ accidents.....


4 posted on 02/10/2011 10:25:38 AM PST by Lockbox (`)
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To: SgtHooper

Yet another example of Rules for Radicals on display.


5 posted on 02/10/2011 10:26:27 AM PST by ScoochDude
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To: ScoochDude

Certainly food for thought, no doubt about it.

Gotta get those GM sales up somehow.


6 posted on 02/10/2011 10:30:09 AM PST by DoughtyOne (All hail the Kenyan Prince Obama, Lord of the Skid-mark, constantly soiling himself and our nation.)
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To: SgtHooper
GM (Government Motors) got their wish by having the Feds rake Toyota over the coals. Nary a peep from Washington when a domestic automaker has similar problems, especially Government Motors and the union thugs!
7 posted on 02/10/2011 10:31:22 AM PST by rawhide
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To: SgtHooper; Mrs. B.S. Roberts

I well remember the thunderous volume of MEDIA coverage of the “terrible damage being wrought by TOYOTA”. The president of the company had to appear before Congress, and was vilified. The Politicians carried on like it was Pearl Harbor #2.
I’ve been searching and listening for a comparable coverage of the result of the governments “official” study into the causes of this “terrible” problem.
(SOUND OF SILENCE)


8 posted on 02/10/2011 10:32:56 AM PST by CaptainAmiigaf ( NY Times: We print the news as it fits our views.)
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To: SgtHooper

The right people sold high, bought low, and now are going to enjoy the return to high sell off levels. You don’t spend $10,000,000 to run for a job that pays $184,000 per year because you’re a nice person in touch with the common man ya know..........


9 posted on 02/10/2011 10:34:07 AM PST by blackdog
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To: rawhide

Bingo. I would not be suprised if BMW is next with that lobbyists X5 SUV where she was in the tuck, it hit the bench and the coolant ignited off the HID headlight heat. It all sounds absurd and sounds like she was whacked by someone.


10 posted on 02/10/2011 10:35:56 AM PST by Frantzie (HD TV - Total Brain-washing now in High Def. 3-D Coming soon)
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To: SgtHooper
Fascist economics. The government picks winners (GM) and gives them money, and picks losers (Toyota) and makes life very hard.

Look at Big Insurance and little insurance companies. Look at BP or the coal industry.

Corporations never really know if the government will hate them or love them. The uncertainty caused by such things means that hiring is kept at a low level. It's the only type of risk management that makes sense right now.

11 posted on 02/10/2011 10:36:51 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (BO + MB = BOMB -- The One will make sure they get one.)
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To: SgtHooper

Will the lawyers give back the money from the lawsuits?


12 posted on 02/10/2011 10:39:05 AM PST by Leftism is Mentally Deranged (Liberalism is against human nature. Practicing liberalism is detrimental to your mental stability.)
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To: SgtHooper
Interesting how the problems increased exponentially after they were reported in the papers. Guess all those Toyotas must have read about this, and decided to get in on the game.

What's that you say? Cars don't read newspapers? Gee, how did we get all those copycat incidents?

13 posted on 02/10/2011 10:42:36 AM PST by 3niner (When Obama succeeds, America fails.)
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To: SgtHooper

Too bad. I’m sick of the Toyota snobs.


14 posted on 02/10/2011 10:43:30 AM PST by Seruzawa (If you agree with the French raise your hand - If you are French raise both hands.)
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To: DoughtyOne

I think we had commercial slander promoted by the left wing press. Toyota would be well advised to sue for damages.


15 posted on 02/10/2011 10:44:42 AM PST by Benchim
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To: Lockbox

This is just an opinion here. I have a ‘97 GMC truck. I have noticed that I can, if not paying attention, place my foot on the brake and the throttle at the same time. It seems that the brake pedal is too close to the throttle to begin with. Remember the old cars where the clutch and brake pedal were further to the left on sat higher? To use the brake in those cars, you had to actually lift your foot up higher and place it on the brake pedal. Also, in today’s cars, the brake pedal is much wider. If they would cut down on the size of the pedal and move it over and inch or two, set it higher, it may solve the problem. Just a thought here.


16 posted on 02/10/2011 10:45:14 AM PST by RC2
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To: SgtHooper

I wonder who was in on shorting Toyota and/or picking up their stock cheaper?


17 posted on 02/10/2011 10:46:10 AM PST by doodad
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To: jdub
Does no one remember that this exact same situation happened to Audi

Yep it was Audi. My Dad got a nice 5000 coupe cheap thanks to the nonsense.

18 posted on 02/10/2011 10:47:39 AM PST by doodad
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To: jdub
Does no one remember that this exact same situation happened to Audi or Volvo ...
It was the Audi 5000 and I remember it vividly. As you said, the whole scenario was exactly the same.
Two good reads ...
19 posted on 02/10/2011 10:47:45 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: jdub
*** Does no one remember that this exact same situation happened to Audi ... ***

It was Audi. It absolutely ruined them in the USA. And the problem just like this, was Driver Error -- hitting the accelerator instead of the brake(1). From that point in the 80's the next Audi I saw and was in wasn't until 2002.

(1) There was huge accident in Chicago with a woman driving her Audi. She ran through a Street Fair, the 'Old Town Art Fair' iirc. Hundreds of paintings and people were in the street. I can't recall how many were killed but a lot were injured and countless Paintings destroyed.

20 posted on 02/10/2011 10:48:23 AM PST by Condor51 (Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a Congressman. But I repeat myself. [Mark Twain])
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To: Seruzawa; ClearCase_guy

Read ClearCase_guy’s post #11, to see why this matters — even to non-snobs.


21 posted on 02/10/2011 10:48:34 AM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: DoughtyOne

That is exactly how a bunch of bullythugs who have never even managed a business handle their competition.


22 posted on 02/10/2011 10:49:07 AM PST by ScoochDude
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To: RC2

you’re just doin a good old fashion powerbrakin burnout.


23 posted on 02/10/2011 10:49:46 AM PST by WOBBLY BOB ( "I don't want the majority if we don't stand for something"- Jim Demint)
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Yeah maybe so. I haven’t heard that terminology in a long time.


24 posted on 02/10/2011 10:52:44 AM PST by RC2
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To: ScoochDude

Ah yes, the gift of Chicago blossoms in the eternal spring of totalitarian fascism. It’s always there. It’s always trying to break out into the open. And like poison-ivy, there are generally always people out there who will pull it out by the roots, and spray poison on the hole.

To that end...


25 posted on 02/10/2011 10:57:28 AM PST by DoughtyOne (All hail the Kenyan Prince Obama, Lord of the Skid-mark, constantly soiling himself and our nation.)
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To: oh8eleven

bttt


26 posted on 02/10/2011 11:00:15 AM PST by petercooper (Purge the RINO's.)
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To: SgtHooper

IIRC, even if the throttle sticks, the engine can be overpowered by the brakes in all modern cars.


27 posted on 02/10/2011 11:11:25 AM PST by Conan the Conservative (Crush the liberals, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the hippies.)
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To: SgtHooper

This reminds me of the lawsuits against Dow Corning over silicone breast implants. The hysterical mob and blood sucking lawyers drove that company into bankruptcy before it was found the products were safe.


28 posted on 02/10/2011 11:13:53 AM PST by Conan the Conservative (Crush the liberals, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the hippies.)
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To: SgtHooper

just because they can’t duplicate it does not mean it is not a sensor/firmware failure.
Case in point.
our 2006 Nissan armada has a slight break issue. this has happened twice.
Symptom is while driving the break light comes on. When you apply the brakes it grinds and brakes terrible.
We had it in the shop (Nissan dealer) who applied the latest firmware.
Then this occurred again when I was driving it after the firmware upgrade. So you pull over carefully due to the nasty braking action, turn the car off and restart and it goes way.
Now you can’t tell me this is NOT a sensor/firmware issue.
Of course it is. Nissans’ answer is we can’t duplicaet it.


29 posted on 02/10/2011 11:20:41 AM PST by placerville
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To: Conan the Conservative

“IIRC, even if the throttle sticks, the engine can be overpowered by the brakes in all modern cars.”

Nope. Brake overrides are not standard in most 2011 model cars and have been standard in every BMW since 2001.

Toyota and Nissan are expected to make brake override standard on all models for 2012.

Now, if such an expensive technology wasn’t needed then why deploy it?

Because when the throttle is electronic in most cars anymore it’s a good idea to have a backup to a simple brake. While some cars have brakes that can overpower the engine there’s plenty of cars that have sufficient HP to make the brakes irrelevant.


30 posted on 02/10/2011 11:21:19 AM PST by MeganC (Soli Deo Gloria)
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To: DoughtyOne

Well said.


31 posted on 02/10/2011 11:26:14 AM PST by ScoochDude
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To: Benchim

Smuckers tried to sue when Chucky Schumer used a jar of Jiff peanut butter, not affected by the e. coli recall, as a chart pointer. In fact, none of Sucker’s products have ever been recalled for e. coli. Big Gov always wins.


32 posted on 02/10/2011 11:29:02 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: SgtHooper

Well it’s about time........


33 posted on 02/10/2011 11:30:36 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: MeganC
Nope. Brake overrides are not standard in most 2011 model cars and have been standard in every BMW since 2001.

Not talking about overrides. Most cars will stop, or at least slow significantly, with the application of the brakes, even if the engine is running wild. It's happened to me (well over 400hp engine, light car, and 1960s-era drum brakes). Back in the 80s, my '66 Nova's throttle stuck wide open. Those 20-year-old drums were more than sufficient to stop me.

More recently, I tested the theory in all my cars when Toyotas were in the headlines - 2007 Hyundai Entourage (biggest minivan made) - mashed the throttle with the right foot, got it to 60 mph, then mashed the brake with the left foot, while leaving the right foot floored - damned near went through the windshield. Same thing with my 1994 Chevrolet K3500 dually with a 454, same with my 2007 Hyundai Elantra. The brakes overcame the engine each time with the same test. None were designed with a brake override to shut power to the engine when it sensed brakes and throttle were active (all were computer-controlled).

34 posted on 02/10/2011 11:40:54 AM PST by IYAS9YAS (Rose, there's a Messerschmit in the kitchen. Clean it up, will ya?)
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To: MeganC

“Nope. Brake overrides are not standard in most 2011 model cars and have been standard in every BMW since 2001.”

I think Conan’s point was that, with the exception of some very powerful vehicles, generally the brakes are way stronger than the engine and can bring a car, at speed, at full throttle, to a stop.

This is generally true, but if you ride the brakes just to slow the car, rather than immediately stopping it and turning it off, you can heat the brakes up and have them fade to near unusability. It’s also true that on cars with vacuum assisted brakes at full throttle there is not much vacuum available to boost the brakes, greatly increasing the required pedal pressure.

Having a car go full throttle is not a good thing to have happen. Even worse if you can’t easily turn off the ignition (without locking the steering) or even shift the vehicle into neutral because those controls are no longer mechanical (the car’s computer might refuse to shift to neutral at full throttle at speed, although that would be a poor design decision).


35 posted on 02/10/2011 11:56:59 AM PST by -YYZ- (Strong like bull, smart like ox.)
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To: -YYZ-

“Having a car go full throttle is not a good thing to have happen.”

Especially in a Bugatti Vayron. On the upsiode you’d have a good excuse for doing 275mph in commute traffic.


36 posted on 02/10/2011 12:01:20 PM PST by MeganC (Soli Deo Gloria)
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To: MeganC

Has all of the appearances of an impeachable event.


37 posted on 02/10/2011 12:38:42 PM PST by yorkie01
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To: ScoochDude

Thanks you ScoochDude.


38 posted on 02/10/2011 12:40:07 PM PST by DoughtyOne (All hail the Kenyan Prince Obama, Lord of the Skid-mark, constantly soiling himself and our nation.)
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To: Condor51
It was Audi. It absolutely ruined them in the USA. And the problem just like this, was Driver Error -- hitting the accelerator instead of the brake

Not exactly ... I owned a 1980 Audi 5000 diesel and had several unstoppable acceleration issues. It was mechanical. There was a push rod linked to the accelerator pedal attached to the vacuum drum that controlled the throttle. On occasion the end would become disconnected and drop downward and jam on the intake manifold ... holding it wide open. And no, a diesel won't stop by merely turning off the ignition ... I was damn near cooked a couiple of times.

39 posted on 02/10/2011 12:56:33 PM PST by TheRightGuy (I want MY BAILOUT ... a billion or two should do!)
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To: TheRightGuy
Wow, didn't know that.
I thought all the Audi issues were gas engines with electric controls.

Glad you made it oksy.

40 posted on 02/10/2011 1:22:17 PM PST by Condor51 (Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a Congressman. But I repeat myself. [Mark Twain])
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To: SgtHooper

I bought a new Camry 6 days ago. As a 6 year Toyota owner, I’m confident.


41 posted on 02/10/2011 1:26:36 PM PST by Graybeard58 (Of course Obama loves his country. The thing is, Sarah loves mine.)
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To: MeganC
"Because when the throttle is electronic in most cars anymore it’s a good idea to have a backup to a simple brake.

In cars with electronic throttle, all it takes is very simple software to turn off the fuel injection when the brakes are on. Most manufacturers, if not all, do this.

42 posted on 02/10/2011 7:37:12 PM PST by norwaypinesavage (Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
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