Skip to comments.U.S. Blames Drivers, Not Toyota
Posted on 02/10/2011 10:20:57 AM PST by SgtHooper
Federal highway safety officials on Tuesday absolved the electronics in Toyota Motor Corp. vehicles for unintended acceleration, and said driver error was to blame for most of the incidents.
The findings of a 10-month-long study conducted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration identified three main causes for sudden acceleration in Toyota and Lexus models. Two of themsticky accelerator pedals and floor mats that trapped the throttle in an open positionwere the subject of a series of Toyota recalls.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
A lot of people will be crying in their beer as their imagined largesse from the law suits just went out the window.
Does no one remember that this exact same situation happened to Audi or Volvo back in the 80’s, and the eventual finding was exactly the same?
Now they can work on the cause of those ‘SUV’ accidents.....
Yet another example of Rules for Radicals on display.
Certainly food for thought, no doubt about it.
Gotta get those GM sales up somehow.
I well remember the thunderous volume of MEDIA coverage of the “terrible damage being wrought by TOYOTA”. The president of the company had to appear before Congress, and was vilified. The Politicians carried on like it was Pearl Harbor #2.
I’ve been searching and listening for a comparable coverage of the result of the governments “official” study into the causes of this “terrible” problem.
(SOUND OF SILENCE)
The right people sold high, bought low, and now are going to enjoy the return to high sell off levels. You don’t spend $10,000,000 to run for a job that pays $184,000 per year because you’re a nice person in touch with the common man ya know..........
Bingo. I would not be suprised if BMW is next with that lobbyists X5 SUV where she was in the tuck, it hit the bench and the coolant ignited off the HID headlight heat. It all sounds absurd and sounds like she was whacked by someone.
Look at Big Insurance and little insurance companies. Look at BP or the coal industry.
Corporations never really know if the government will hate them or love them. The uncertainty caused by such things means that hiring is kept at a low level. It's the only type of risk management that makes sense right now.
Will the lawyers give back the money from the lawsuits?
What's that you say? Cars don't read newspapers? Gee, how did we get all those copycat incidents?
Too bad. I’m sick of the Toyota snobs.
I think we had commercial slander promoted by the left wing press. Toyota would be well advised to sue for damages.
This is just an opinion here. I have a ‘97 GMC truck. I have noticed that I can, if not paying attention, place my foot on the brake and the throttle at the same time. It seems that the brake pedal is too close to the throttle to begin with. Remember the old cars where the clutch and brake pedal were further to the left on sat higher? To use the brake in those cars, you had to actually lift your foot up higher and place it on the brake pedal. Also, in today’s cars, the brake pedal is much wider. If they would cut down on the size of the pedal and move it over and inch or two, set it higher, it may solve the problem. Just a thought here.
I wonder who was in on shorting Toyota and/or picking up their stock cheaper?
Yep it was Audi. My Dad got a nice 5000 coupe cheap thanks to the nonsense.
It was Audi. It absolutely ruined them in the USA. And the problem just like this, was Driver Error -- hitting the accelerator instead of the brake(1). From that point in the 80's the next Audi I saw and was in wasn't until 2002.
(1) There was huge accident in Chicago with a woman driving her Audi. She ran through a Street Fair, the 'Old Town Art Fair' iirc. Hundreds of paintings and people were in the street. I can't recall how many were killed but a lot were injured and countless Paintings destroyed.
Read ClearCase_guy’s post #11, to see why this matters — even to non-snobs.
That is exactly how a bunch of bullythugs who have never even managed a business handle their competition.
you’re just doin a good old fashion powerbrakin burnout.
Yeah maybe so. I haven’t heard that terminology in a long time.
Ah yes, the gift of Chicago blossoms in the eternal spring of totalitarian fascism. It’s always there. It’s always trying to break out into the open. And like poison-ivy, there are generally always people out there who will pull it out by the roots, and spray poison on the hole.
To that end...
IIRC, even if the throttle sticks, the engine can be overpowered by the brakes in all modern cars.
This reminds me of the lawsuits against Dow Corning over silicone breast implants. The hysterical mob and blood sucking lawyers drove that company into bankruptcy before it was found the products were safe.
just because they can’t duplicate it does not mean it is not a sensor/firmware failure.
Case in point.
our 2006 Nissan armada has a slight break issue. this has happened twice.
Symptom is while driving the break light comes on. When you apply the brakes it grinds and brakes terrible.
We had it in the shop (Nissan dealer) who applied the latest firmware.
Then this occurred again when I was driving it after the firmware upgrade. So you pull over carefully due to the nasty braking action, turn the car off and restart and it goes way.
Now you can’t tell me this is NOT a sensor/firmware issue.
Of course it is. Nissans’ answer is we can’t duplicaet it.
“IIRC, even if the throttle sticks, the engine can be overpowered by the brakes in all modern cars.”
Nope. Brake overrides are not standard in most 2011 model cars and have been standard in every BMW since 2001.
Toyota and Nissan are expected to make brake override standard on all models for 2012.
Now, if such an expensive technology wasn’t needed then why deploy it?
Because when the throttle is electronic in most cars anymore it’s a good idea to have a backup to a simple brake. While some cars have brakes that can overpower the engine there’s plenty of cars that have sufficient HP to make the brakes irrelevant.
Smuckers tried to sue when Chucky Schumer used a jar of Jiff peanut butter, not affected by the e. coli recall, as a chart pointer. In fact, none of Sucker’s products have ever been recalled for e. coli. Big Gov always wins.
Well it’s about time........
Not talking about overrides. Most cars will stop, or at least slow significantly, with the application of the brakes, even if the engine is running wild. It's happened to me (well over 400hp engine, light car, and 1960s-era drum brakes). Back in the 80s, my '66 Nova's throttle stuck wide open. Those 20-year-old drums were more than sufficient to stop me.
More recently, I tested the theory in all my cars when Toyotas were in the headlines - 2007 Hyundai Entourage (biggest minivan made) - mashed the throttle with the right foot, got it to 60 mph, then mashed the brake with the left foot, while leaving the right foot floored - damned near went through the windshield. Same thing with my 1994 Chevrolet K3500 dually with a 454, same with my 2007 Hyundai Elantra. The brakes overcame the engine each time with the same test. None were designed with a brake override to shut power to the engine when it sensed brakes and throttle were active (all were computer-controlled).
“Nope. Brake overrides are not standard in most 2011 model cars and have been standard in every BMW since 2001.”
I think Conan’s point was that, with the exception of some very powerful vehicles, generally the brakes are way stronger than the engine and can bring a car, at speed, at full throttle, to a stop.
This is generally true, but if you ride the brakes just to slow the car, rather than immediately stopping it and turning it off, you can heat the brakes up and have them fade to near unusability. It’s also true that on cars with vacuum assisted brakes at full throttle there is not much vacuum available to boost the brakes, greatly increasing the required pedal pressure.
Having a car go full throttle is not a good thing to have happen. Even worse if you can’t easily turn off the ignition (without locking the steering) or even shift the vehicle into neutral because those controls are no longer mechanical (the car’s computer might refuse to shift to neutral at full throttle at speed, although that would be a poor design decision).
“Having a car go full throttle is not a good thing to have happen.”
Especially in a Bugatti Vayron. On the upsiode you’d have a good excuse for doing 275mph in commute traffic.
Has all of the appearances of an impeachable event.
Thanks you ScoochDude.
Not exactly ... I owned a 1980 Audi 5000 diesel and had several unstoppable acceleration issues. It was mechanical. There was a push rod linked to the accelerator pedal attached to the vacuum drum that controlled the throttle. On occasion the end would become disconnected and drop downward and jam on the intake manifold ... holding it wide open. And no, a diesel won't stop by merely turning off the ignition ... I was damn near cooked a couiple of times.
Glad you made it oksy.
I bought a new Camry 6 days ago. As a 6 year Toyota owner, I’m confident.
In cars with electronic throttle, all it takes is very simple software to turn off the fuel injection when the brakes are on. Most manufacturers, if not all, do this.