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'Gay Conservative' Is an Oxymoron
Townhall.com ^ | February 14, 2011 | Star Parker

Posted on 02/14/2011 7:51:47 AM PST by Kaslin

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To: little jeremiah
... you don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit into the wind, you don't pull the mask off the 'ole Lone Ranger and you don't discuss conservatism with a liberaltarian ....
201 posted on 02/14/2011 1:54:52 PM PST by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free!)
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To: Daveinyork
then, what’s your point? If you don’t want to ban it, then why are you and your friends screaming about it. Maybe if you don’t care if they ban it, you are encouraging it.

The point that many make including myself is that the government can no more ban homosexual sex that it can ban murder. Regardless, we see laws against murder. These ;aws are not created because the laws will or can even hope prevent murder but rather because the laws clearly define what society declares necessary and valued conduct supporting moral order versus anarchy.

So, although we can not prevent murder, we can state it is not good and as well not see the government promote it as normal in public or on the public dime...

Codified laws and government may come and go -social order and the common law is the legitimate foundation premise that underlies what is both legitimate governance and legitimate legislation. The declaration of no value regarding homosexual sex was made long before government began as an agent of society incorporating it into written law.

What we see now as evidenced with Proposition 8 is a tyrannical government imposed morality/religion that claims it knows better what is morally right. Again, where does this moral authority come from -the holy book of homosexual sex?

202 posted on 02/14/2011 1:57:44 PM PST by DBeers (†)
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To: Daveinyork
You are weak on history.

James Madison and Thomas Jefferson wrote one another prolifically during the Constitutional Convention.

James Madison

All of these convictions, and many more, found their way into the Virginia Plan, which Madison, in consultation with Edmund Randolph, James Wilson, Alexander Hamilton, and in his extended correspondence with Tom Jefferson in Paris,

The first amendment to the U.S. Constitution: Religious aspects

The roots of the First Amendment can be traced to a bill written by Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) in 1777 and proposed to the Virginia Legislature in 1779. 1It guaranteed freedom of (and from) religion. After an impassioned speech by James Madison, and after some amendments, it became law in that state on 1786-JAN-16

Jefferson was pleased with the constitution, but felt it was incomplete. He pushed for legislation that would guarantee individual rights, including what he felt was the prime guarantee: freedom of and from religion. Madison promised to promote such a bill, in order to gain support for the ratification of the constitution by the State of Virginia. In 1789, the first of ten amendments were written to the constitution; they have since been known as the Bill of Rights.

203 posted on 02/14/2011 1:58:38 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: Daveinyork

There are not alternate, or separate but equal moralities.

There are moral absolutes, which are the same in every monotheist religion (as well as some that aren’t, such as Buddhism) and are the foundation of human civilization.

Any more questions?


204 posted on 02/14/2011 2:00:21 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: DBeers

So, given the choice, you would not outlaw sodomy?


205 posted on 02/14/2011 2:01:16 PM PST by Daveinyork
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To: little jeremiah

Granted. How far are you willing to use the government to enforce moral behavior?


206 posted on 02/14/2011 2:02:27 PM PST by Daveinyork
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To: Servant of the Cross

Liberaltrians are my favorites.

They make no sense, are nuts, and always have a very weak spot or two in their ridiculous armor. They like libertarianism because they like their vices. It’s the sum and substance of the LP party or “unofficial” libertarians. And oh, speaking of “substance”, people who smoke a lot of week get really stupid. I say this as a former weed smoker (many, many long years ago) and it does affect thinking and memory.


207 posted on 02/14/2011 2:02:43 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Daveinyork; DBeers; little jeremiah
So, given the choice, you would not outlaw sodomy?

You have taken this discussion completely off topic.

The discussion is whether homosexuals need a political organization in order to vote Conservatively. The answer is NO.

208 posted on 02/14/2011 2:03:58 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: Daveinyork; DBeers

I’m with DBeers’ comment above.


209 posted on 02/14/2011 2:04:09 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Daveinyork; little jeremiah
How far are you willing to use the government to enforce moral behavior?

As far as the Founders were willing to take it.

The point of this thread is that radical homosexual groups are not Conservative.

210 posted on 02/14/2011 2:06:22 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: Kaslin

I have a friend who is Gay, and he is anything but liberal. He is a staunch Conservative who is against same sex marriage. He doesn’t announce he’s Gay. Not every group that says they are Gay Conservatives is the same. Nor can I take the word of one person who denegrates others who disagree with them. There is no group think here. Gay Conservative is not always an oxymoron.


211 posted on 02/14/2011 2:10:42 PM PST by oneamericanvoice (Support freedom! Support the troops! Surrender is not an option!)
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To: Daveinyork
So, given the choice, you would not outlaw sodomy?

That sounds like a union card check question? LOL

You do know that many of the Proposition 8 supporters were and have been targeted by homosexual agenda activists who attempt to silence them by intimidation and threat of violence?

Anyway, I would privately vote for or against any such measure based upon its merits alone as my well formed conscience dictated. If public declaration and activity was warranted then I would decide whether or not such a vocation would be for me.

212 posted on 02/14/2011 2:12:36 PM PST by DBeers (†)
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To: oneamericanvoice; Kaslin

Homosexual groups have a political agenda, homosexual “rights”. That is not a conservative view.


213 posted on 02/14/2011 2:18:12 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: Daveinyork; little jeremiah

Do you support the homosexual agenda.


214 posted on 02/14/2011 2:19:45 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: DJ MacWoW; Daveinyork

Dave - you hinted you didn’t agree with everything the Libertarian Party stood for.

You also stated that libertarianism is the heart of conservatism.

Do you agree with those parts I listed, or not?

To make it easy for you, here they are again:

Making any and all drugs legal, any and all prostitution legal, homosexual marriage, adoption and any and all “gay” rights legal, and any and all pornography legal (including anywhere, such as on buses) are all part of the official Libertarian Party platform.

Do you agree with all, with any, or disagree? Please be clear on which you agree or disagree with. Thanks in advance.


215 posted on 02/14/2011 2:26:02 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Servant of the Cross
If you are suggesting that conservatism is solely economic issues that is a recipe for failure.

I made no such suggestion. Actually, merely raising the questions here for the purpose of discussion. FR is a place for conservatives to discuss issues. I'm well aware of that.

216 posted on 02/14/2011 4:17:29 PM PST by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience.)
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To: SeeSac

If it had, it wasn’t nearly as used as it is now. I first remember hearing the term sometime in the late 60s, right in the heart of the hippie and anti-war goings-on. I believe that’s when it really began having widespread use.


217 posted on 02/14/2011 6:02:16 PM PST by murron (Proud Mom of a Marine Vet)
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To: murron; SeeSac
I first remember hearing the term sometime in the late 60s, right in the heart of the hippie and anti-war goings-on. I believe that’s when it really began having widespread use.

You're correct. The early use of the term simply meant a hedonistic, immoral lifestyle. It was in the 60's that it began to be used as an exclusive homosexual euphemism.

218 posted on 02/14/2011 6:24:33 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: fwdude

Actually, that a gay being a gay advocate... not a conservative who is gay.

There’s too many here that state by simply being gay, you can’t be conservative. Which is bunk.

That said, you can’t be a gay advocate and be a conservative. But then, you don’t have to be gay to be a gay advocate. Just look at California and it’s schools.


219 posted on 02/15/2011 2:36:39 AM PST by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: AnalogReigns
Ethics have always been a part of what conservatism means--and is what separates us from libertine libertarians. So while strictly speaking "religion" doesn't define conservatism, living in an unethical way denies conservatism.

Active homosexuals, who act by having perverted sex with persons of their own sex, are by definition unethical, and therefore, not conservative.

Not a good argument. Basically you state that anyone who violates any ethical standard cannot be conservative. Which would mean that anyone who has ever done anything wrong, ever, is not a conservative.

Which eliminates everyone.

220 posted on 02/15/2011 2:47:02 AM PST by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: DJ MacWoW
The difference in sinners is repentance. To receive God's grace one has to repent. They don't have repentance parades, they have prideful sin parades.

No, gay advocates that do that. You're confusing gays with gay advocates. While all gay advocates are gay, the reverse isn't true at all.

Any more than terrorists who say that since all the US combatants in their country are Americans... that all Americans are combatants (and thus legitimate targets).

221 posted on 02/15/2011 2:52:11 AM PST by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: gogogodzilla

There MAY be homosexuals that vote Republican but for the most part they are liberal as the liberals give them goodies. ALL homosexual organizations support homosexual “rights” and GOProud is an organization. Their laundry list of “wants’ is in post 54.


222 posted on 02/15/2011 3:51:56 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: DJ MacWoW
You're correct. The early use of the term simply meant a hedonistic, immoral lifestyle. It was in the 60's that it began to be used as an exclusive homosexual euphemism.

No. The term was used in several 1920's writings and plays to refer to homosexuals. At that time it was a 'code' word.

223 posted on 02/15/2011 6:06:33 AM PST by SeeSac
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To: SeeSac; murron

Since the 1650’s the word meant immoral, hedonistic behavior. The “Gay” 90’s meant a happy time. We aren’t talking “code” words. It became pre-empted by homosexuals in the 60’s.


224 posted on 02/15/2011 6:16:18 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: gogogodzilla
Not a good argument. Basically you state that anyone who violates any ethical standard cannot be conservative. Which would mean that anyone who has ever done anything wrong, ever, is not a conservative.

Which eliminates everyone.

You're giving a too-literal, mechanical meaning to what I wrote. I also never said any ethic...

Obviously everyone is a sinner, that is we fail at the ethics we aspire to uphold--however, conservatives in politics uphold traditional Western Judeo/Christian ethics, even while they don't always keep them perfectly--and those who openly, actively and proudly oppose those ethics, as GOProud certainly does--cannot call themselves "conservative" in any meaningful sense of the word.

GOProud calling itself conservative, because they agree with conservatives say on economics, is like a Muslim calling himself Christian because he agrees with Christians there is one God.

In both there is a fundamentally different source, substance, and goal of ethics.

225 posted on 02/15/2011 9:23:46 AM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: DJ MacWoW

That’s about when I first remember hearing the term used the way it is today.


226 posted on 02/15/2011 7:50:36 PM PST by murron (Proud Mom of a Marine Vet)
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