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China and Colombia announce 'alternative Panama Canal'
BBC ^ | BBC

Posted on 02/14/2011 11:26:43 AM PST by Oakeshott

Colombia has announced it is negotiating with China to build an alternative to the Panama Canal.

The proposed transport route is intended to promote the flow of goods between Asia and Latin America.

The plan is to create a "dry canal" where the Pacific port of Buenaventura would be linked by rail, across Colombia, to the Atlantic Coast.

Trade between Colombia and China has increased from $10m in 1980 to more than $5bn last year.

The announcement came from the Colombian president, Juan Manuel Santos, who told the Financial Times that the project was "a real proposal... and it is quite advanced".

China has been increasing its involvement across Latin America to feed a growing need for raw materials and commodities.

(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: canal; caribbean; centralamerica; china; colombia; columbia; costarica; danielortega; earthquake; earthquakes; hknd; hkndgroup; iran; isthmiancanal; lakenicaragua; latinamerica; miguelceballos; nicaragua; noemisanin; panama; panamacanal; theodoreroosevelt; venezuela; wangjing; waronterror; xinweitelecom
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1 posted on 02/14/2011 11:26:53 AM PST by Oakeshott
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To: Oakeshott

what is the likely outcome in regards to America? I know obamanation is not interested in this, but I am.


2 posted on 02/14/2011 11:30:09 AM PST by bareford101 (. All Muslims lie to infidels to confuse them)
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To: Oakeshott

I’d prefer an alternative Ulster.


3 posted on 02/14/2011 11:31:39 AM PST by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: Oakeshott

Intersting, but that would be a lot of loading and unloading
of freight containers.


4 posted on 02/14/2011 11:32:30 AM PST by Average Al
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To: Oakeshott

There once was a proposal to build a canal across Nicaragua........


5 posted on 02/14/2011 11:33:05 AM PST by Red Badger (Want to be surprised? Google your own name. Want to have fun? Google your friend's names.....)
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To: bareford101

Isn’t “dry canal” an oxymoron?

It’s a rail line between ports on opposite coasts. Ships would have to be unloaded, contents loaded onto trains, and then the process reversed on the other side.

Could be a competitor to the Panama Canal, but the terminology in the article is odd.


6 posted on 02/14/2011 11:33:51 AM PST by rockvillem
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To: Oakeshott

It’s called a portage. They did it in ancient Corinth. Unload, transport, reload.


7 posted on 02/14/2011 11:36:09 AM PST by lurk
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To: Average Al

Back when the Panama Canal was built they didn’t handle freight the same way, now it is always shipped in shipping containers that are equally well packed on trains or boats with no modification needed.

Plus this also allows China to send some of their shipments to South America and Europe at the same time for a great part of their journey.


8 posted on 02/14/2011 11:36:09 AM PST by GraceG
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To: Red Badger
There once was a proposal to build a canal across Nicaragua........

"It was just one of those things..."
9 posted on 02/14/2011 11:37:45 AM PST by kenavi (The good ol' US of A: 57 state laboratories for the future.)
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To: Oakeshott
Guess that would work:


10 posted on 02/14/2011 11:40:31 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Average Al
International freight containers loaded on rail to reload on another container ship ain't no thang.

The rail line would have exclusive right of way for this traffic. Gotta' be dirt cheap!

11 posted on 02/14/2011 11:41:23 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Oakeshott

It should be the US negotiating to build the canal, not China.


12 posted on 02/14/2011 11:42:27 AM PST by Siena Dreaming
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To: Average Al
Cargo containers are pretty efficient to load/unload. My concern would be containers stopping over in Columbia and then moving either directly or indirectly to the US. It's a stupid headline though, a railroad is not a canal.
13 posted on 02/14/2011 11:42:31 AM PST by dblshot (Insanity - electing the same people over and over and expecting different results.)
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To: Oakeshott; All

No wonder why the Free Trade Communists were pushing a US Free Trade deal with Colombia....they are in cahoots with Communist China!

Wonder if this means the USA gets back the Panama Canal from the Communist Chinese? Knowing the Free Trade Communists....they would let the Communist Chinese keep it


14 posted on 02/14/2011 11:43:37 AM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (Newt Gingrich and Chris Matthews: Seperated at Birth??)
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To: Average Al

“Intersting, but that would be a lot of loading and unloading of freight containers.”

This is done right now with US Railroads. Container ships dock at the Port of LA or Seattle, then unload their containers onto doublestack RR cars. Those trains are then driven by UP or BNSF and handed off to East Coast RR’s (CSX or Norfolk Southern) to bring to east coast ports. These items are then loaded on another container vessel to transport to Europe.


15 posted on 02/14/2011 11:43:53 AM PST by Londo Molari
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To: Oakeshott

The proposed dry canal is called “break bulk” - and the practice was largely phased out 100 years ago due to high labor costs - the reason ships are attractive is the efficiency of labor and fuel once all is loaded. The most expensive parts are the loading and unloading. Add one more cycle of loading/unloading and you may as well just go around the long way.


16 posted on 02/14/2011 11:45:04 AM PST by sbMKE
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To: Average Al

Intersting, but that would be a lot of loading and unloading
of freight containers.


Actually.....that is not an issue. Most of the containers used in shipping now can be put on a boat, a truck, a train...with only lifting the container to and from the mode of transport.

Next time you see a freight train....notice how most of the containers look like truck trailers....and note how many are Communist Chinese


17 posted on 02/14/2011 11:46:20 AM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (Newt Gingrich and Chris Matthews: Seperated at Birth??)
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To: Oakeshott

Columbia is not the most peaceful of places.... this scheme can’t work unless the tracks were absolutely secure; and I can see rebels targeting the tracks and the trains on them.


18 posted on 02/14/2011 11:47:48 AM PST by r9etb
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To: kenavi

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/9/30/173953.shtml


19 posted on 02/14/2011 11:48:03 AM PST by Red Badger (Want to be surprised? Google your own name. Want to have fun? Google your friend's names.....)
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To: Oakeshott

I doubt that this will happen. Too much time loading and unloading and the idea that they would load another ship immediately on the other side is not a real possibility.


20 posted on 02/14/2011 11:48:32 AM PST by texmexis best
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To: muawiyah

Another source of income (investment?) for FARC!


21 posted on 02/14/2011 11:49:42 AM PST by Sigurdrifta
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

The Chinese look for barter
From Chavez their commie partner
But Confucius say
Hugo won’t pay
And you already got canal from Carter.


22 posted on 02/14/2011 11:54:38 AM PST by dblshot (Insanity - electing the same people over and over and expecting different results.)
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To: bareford101
How about a real canal in Mexico that follows Hwy 185 from the south shore to the north to the coastal city of Coatzacoalcos? This would have several benefits: 1) shovel-ready jobs for Mexican workers, 2) it would be a natural border between North America and Central America.

-PJ

23 posted on 02/14/2011 11:55:59 AM PST by Political Junkie Too ("Comprehensive" reform bills only end up as incomprehensible messes.)
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To: Oakeshott
1999 As you know, this year the United States turns the Panama Canal over to Panama. Well, this morning's Investor's Business Daily reports that Panama has contracted the management of the Canal out to a Hong Kong firm "with close ties to the Chinese government."

The implications of this management deal should be obvious. In case of war, it will greatly hamper the ability of the US Navy to get ships from one ocean to another quickly.

Couple this with the fact that China now has a military base on the US mainland. A couple of years ago, the Clinton administration sold the Long Beach Naval Air Station to the China Overseas Shipping Company (COSCO). COSCO is using the facility as a port, but anybody who thinks that the Chinese military isn't ready to make the fullest possible use of the base at a moment's notice is living in a fantasy world.End snip

So now the 'Independent' closet leftist Santos is ready to hand Colombia to China on a silver platter. Precious.

24 posted on 02/14/2011 11:58:49 AM PST by Calusa (The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles. Quoth Bob Dylan.)
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To: Oakeshott
1999 As you know, this year the United States turns the Panama Canal over to Panama. Well, this morning's Investor's Business Daily reports that Panama has contracted the management of the Canal out to a Hong Kong firm "with close ties to the Chinese government."

The implications of this management deal should be obvious. In case of war, it will greatly hamper the ability of the US Navy to get ships from one ocean to another quickly.

Couple this with the fact that China now has a military base on the US mainland. A couple of years ago, the Clinton administration sold the Long Beach Naval Air Station to the China Overseas Shipping Company (COSCO). COSCO is using the facility as a port, but anybody who thinks that the Chinese military isn't ready to make the fullest possible use of the base at a moment's notice is living in a fantasy world.End snip

So now the 'Independent' closet leftist Santos is ready to hand Colombia over to China on a silver platter. Precious.

25 posted on 02/14/2011 12:00:15 PM PST by Calusa (The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles. Quoth Bob Dylan.)
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To: texmexis best
I doubt that this will happen. Too much time loading and unloading and the idea that they would load another ship immediately on the other side is not a real possibility.

That sounds like a matter of ship design..... It should be possible to create a design that minimizes the ship-to-train transition.

And the ships could be made much bigger, too, because they need not be designed to fit through the locks of the Panama Canal.

26 posted on 02/14/2011 12:02:00 PM PST by r9etb
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To: bareford101

Perhaps there is no outcome.

We now have a container port in Mexico that ships containers up through Texas to points mid and east.

The port supplements expensive (union) and overburdened Southern California ports.


27 posted on 02/14/2011 12:03:43 PM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. D.E. +12 ....( History is a process, not an event ))
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To: texmexis best

There will be surge areas ~ they are called marshalling yards ~ been in use since YEAR 0 in the railroad calendrics!


28 posted on 02/14/2011 12:04:19 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Oakeshott

One more thought. We have had such an arrangement for a long time. Rather than a canal it is called a land bridge.


29 posted on 02/14/2011 12:05:11 PM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. D.E. +12 ....( History is a process, not an event ))
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To: Oakeshott
Reportedly, the Atlantic port is to be built near Cartagena.

660 miles according to Bing. With a stop in Medellin, no doubt, to pay special taxes and/or pick up special cargo.

Doesn't look very promising.

30 posted on 02/14/2011 12:09:10 PM PST by cynwoody
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To: Calusa
It's been pretty much impossible to get US Navy main ships of the line from the Atlantic to the Pacific, or vice versa, since shortly before the Panama Canal was completed.

We build BIG SHIPS.

We are also a very wealthy nation so we have a multi-basin fleet (there being only one ocean on the planet).

We keep ships off China, in the Middle East, in the Mediterranean, somewhere else, and even somewhere else again ~ whole huge bunches of them AND THEN there's the nuclear fleet ~ it'll get you if nothing else does.

In case of serious trouble we fly bombers out of Missouri to any point on Earth.

31 posted on 02/14/2011 12:09:18 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: bareford101

Maybe, the Chinese will help Colombia fight their Communist Terrorism problem.


32 posted on 02/14/2011 12:11:22 PM PST by FreeAtlanta (Obama and the left are making a mockery of our country.)
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To: FreeAtlanta

There’s another route for a canal in the area between Colombia and Panama.The Choco River although only a couple of hundred miles long is one of the most voluminous rivers in the world. But that project faces the same problem as the Pan American road in the Darien area there’s really no ‘there’ there.


33 posted on 02/14/2011 12:26:32 PM PST by Calusa (The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles. Quoth Bob Dylan.)
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To: r9etb
Columbia of 2011 is not the Columbia of 1980’s. It isn't America, but it has become a lot more secure and business friendly.
34 posted on 02/14/2011 12:30:21 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer (biblein90days.org))
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To: Political Junkie Too
About 1,500 feet of elevation change makes for a challenging canal.

http://mapasdemexico.org/maps/elev.html

35 posted on 02/14/2011 12:34:32 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer (biblein90days.org))
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To: muawiyah
International freight containers loaded on rail to reload on another container ship ain't no thang.

The big trans-Pacific container ships save lots of time on shipments to Atlantic ocean ports and and containers headed to various North or South American or even European destinations could be loaded on to different ships at the terminus port.

I don't know a lot about international logistics, but on the surface, this makes a lot of sense to me.

36 posted on 02/14/2011 12:38:41 PM PST by Ditto (Nov 2, 2010 -- Partial cleaning accomplished. More trash to remove in 2012)
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To: thackney
Yeah, I know about that one spot. Maybe they can dig out a canyon through the middle? How about a waterway tunnel? It would keep a lot of Mexicans employed for a long time.

-PJ

37 posted on 02/14/2011 12:40:54 PM PST by Political Junkie Too ("Comprehensive" reform bills only end up as incomprehensible messes.)
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To: Political Junkie Too
How about a waterway tunnel?

Now that would be cool to see. Expensive and limited, but hey, it's only money.

They build water bridges, why not tunnels?


38 posted on 02/14/2011 12:46:55 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer (biblein90days.org))
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To: cynwoody

When all is said and done it would be cheaper for the Chicoms to dig a new canal. I’ve been on Colombian roads and they are not the best, nor safe.


39 posted on 02/14/2011 12:56:55 PM PST by Recon Dad ( Zero point two... Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son)
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To: muawiyah

I am very familiar with marshalling yards, Houston have some of the largest around and that is one reason why I don’t think this is going to work. It requires a spectacular investment in land and infrastructure. The cranes a really expensive.

If it would create an additional delay in shipping, it would not work as the trip from Columbia to the other side of equal latitude, IIRC. is about 9 or 10 days. Tankers cost about 20,000 per day, all costs considered, so it would be a real judgement call.

I just think that a trans-shipment facility that is 30 or so miles from another would simply not work.


40 posted on 02/14/2011 1:01:08 PM PST by texmexis best
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To: Red Badger
From a quick glance at the map, I would assume that most goods going through the Canal are destined for the U.S., and to Canada to a lesser extent.

It should be more efficient to land-ship imports from one coast to another, than to circumvent the U.S. through the canal. That might be the "high-speed" rail option we are missing.
41 posted on 02/14/2011 1:09:04 PM PST by kenavi (The good ol' US of A: 57 state laboratories for the future.)
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To: r9etb
should be possible to create a design that minimizes the ship-to-train transition.

That is pretty much what they invented those big containers for. Of course they also have 'train ferrys' that you just drive the train onto.
42 posted on 02/14/2011 1:21:33 PM PST by TalonDJ
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To: TalonDJ

Is George Soros involved?


43 posted on 02/14/2011 1:56:27 PM PST by Freddd
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To: Calusa
You got your story wrong on COSCO and the LB Naval Shipyard.

Cosco did want to expand their Port Of LB facilities but had no room to do, so they were going to move into the former Naval facilities.

That lathered up all the conspiracy kooks, so they made a change in plans.

Cosco's neighbor moved into the Naval Ship Yard and Cosco expanded onto the adjoining vacated property.

I can tell that you like conspiracies so let me tell you about one concerning this Columbia dry canal railroad. This railroad is just a small part of Plan Puebla Panama.

Plan Puebla Panama was conceived of by Mexican President Fox in 2000. The whole area from the Mexican State of Puebla down thru Panama would be integrated into a single free trade zone which would include building and integrating transportation infrastructure.

Many dry canals were proposed as part of this but it never went anywhere because no investors stepped up.

When Calderon replaced Fox, he revived Plan Puebla Panama and at that time Uribe put Columbia's northern state into the Plan and that is where this dry canal is located.

Not to be out done, after Fox proposed Plan Puebla Panama, South America also got in the act with IIRSA, which is a plan to build and integrate transportation infrastructure among the SA nations. They have made much more headway than Plan Puebla Panama.

There is mucho info and maps on these two plans to be found on the internet.

44 posted on 02/14/2011 2:01:49 PM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: texmexis best
The Transcontinental Railway worked first time out ~ over a century ago. The same idea with vastly improved equipment such as is commonly available these days has to work.

The costly cranes are the new way we handle port operations. They easily load and unload intermodal freight containers.

45 posted on 02/14/2011 2:17:09 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: texmexis best
The Transcontinental Railway worked first time out ~ over a century ago. The same idea with vastly improved equipment such as is commonly available these days has to work.

The costly cranes are the new way we handle port operations. They easily load and unload intermodal freight containers.

46 posted on 02/14/2011 2:17:19 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: thackney

Paw Paw Tunnel, Chesapeake & Ohio Canal, Maryland, USA

47 posted on 02/14/2011 2:24:04 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Oakeshott

Long before this is finished the Panama Canal Expansion Project will be done. The canal will then be able to handle ships up to 1800 feet long and 180 feet wide with a draft of 60 feet. That’s going to kill any advantage the overland route may have.


48 posted on 02/14/2011 2:32:39 PM PST by K-Stater
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To: Oakeshott

Aren’t they (whomever they are) expanding the Panama Canal as we speak?

Thought I saw or read where they are doing so.


49 posted on 02/14/2011 2:38:02 PM PST by Fledermaus (WAKE UP! Get rid of the LIBS in the GOP. If not us, who? If not now, when?)
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To: muawiyah

We will probably see how it works.

The canal trip is 8 to ten hours, a very short time. They are apparently designing or building a new third canal that is much wider as only 40% of commercial shipping can now make it through the locks. The new canal will be able to handle much larger ships and put them through at about the same number of hours.

The rail facility spoken of is apparently an attempt to handle the ships that do not fit through the canal but it appears that the new canal may make the rail facility moot.

The current charge for a container ship is 72.00 per standard container, very, very cheap in transportation terms. It is going to be very tough to beat.


50 posted on 02/14/2011 2:48:07 PM PST by texmexis best
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