Skip to comments.“Cops Win Gunfights Because They Show Up With Lots of Cops”
Posted on 02/17/2011 4:07:47 AM PST by marktwain
This morning, I read Paul Markels column for officer.com: Firearms Training Sanity Check; Why do we train the way we do? The answer: Rather than examine or address any deficiencies in the curriculum or training program, its much easier to simply state, thats we way weve always done it. Well thats great. We used to bore holes in peoples head to let the demons out. Im sorry folks but weve always done it like that is a crutch. Its an easy way out that requires no thought or effort. Yes, well, whats wrong with it? How should police be training? Markels article pulled more punches than a paid-off prizefighter. So I rang him up, expecting some carefully couched criticism. Nope. He let police firearms training standards have it, both barrels . . .
The vast majority of cops dont have a warrior mentality, the formerly active Marine and ex-cop told TTAG. Cops win gunfights because they show up with a lot of cops. Whenever they run into serious, motivated and trained bad guys, they get their asses handed to them.
And yet most of them have no desire to train hard . . .
Its all about their ego. They like to practice what theyre good at: standing still and slowly firing at a target thats five to ten yards away. That way they make lots of nice pretty groups and they can keep thinking that they know how to use a gun . . .
I tell them to start a string lying on their back. The groups dont look so nice but they know how to draw and shoot after someones knocked them on the ground, before the bad guy comes at them with a knife and starts using them for a pin cushion.
Markels been angry at the state of the average American police forces combat preparedness for quite some time. When he left the Gulf War for home, Markel graduated at the top of his police academy class. And yet work was hard to come by.
I was too caucasian and too male for the job, he states. When you are more interested in filling quotas than hiring warriors you end up with government workers . . .
Id say around one to two percent of police are gun guys. Theyll spend their own money on ammo and train hard. The rest couldnt care less. They just want a government job.
Gun guys. Two little words capable of trigger a major rant.
Lots of cops say it to me like theyre proud of it. Im not a gun guy. They get all lofty about it. Like if youre a gun guy youre some kind of barbarian or Rambo.
Imagine a plumber who says Im not a pipe and wrench guy. Its ridiculous. If youre a cop, you ARE a gun guy. You have to do it. Its part of your job. I'm not a gun guy. Try explaining that to a bad guy when youre lying in a ditch and hes about to blow your head off . . .
Cops arent social workers. Some people in America want them to be social workers. They think combat is too nasty and horrible. But theyre supposed to be gunfighters. They need to be gunfighters.
In the current era of fiscal austerity, firearms training is particularly vulnerable to cut-backs. Markel is not having an easy time of it. But hes optimistic that a sea change is on the horizon.
A lot of the new police recruits are kids coming back from Afghanistan. Theyve been there. They know whats real. Theyve got the warrior spirit. As they work their way up the ranks, theyll start to lobby for serious training and the budgets to pay for them.
The change of attitude and increase in real world gunfighting skills cant happen soon enough for the Mississippi-based trainer. Or for us, the citizens the cops are supposed to protect and serve.
[Note: After visiting PaulMarkel.com, I've asked the man to write for TTAG on self-defense topics. If you're up for it, please leave a comment below.]
However, it is also true that most police officers never fire a shot for serious social purposes.
When I need help at 3:00 AM I want a gun guy showing up not a doughnut guy.
these “not a gun” guys are the ones who leftists expect to protect the unprotected homes from armed intruders in under 10 minutes.
In my decade of handgun ownership, I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve seen a LEO at a shooting range. My neighbor, a Sgt in the local SO, consistently turns me down for invites to the range, and I go at least once every other week. It’s scary.
I’ve also taken several dozen practical and tactical combat courses involving guns and knives, and the classes are always filled with regular 9-to-5ers. I’ve been to two where there were officers training. Just two.
I agree with everything in this article. For men and women who are supposed to be “well-trained” and better suited for combat than the average Joe, they sure don’t act like it. The fact that legislators constantly say that average Americans shouldn’t own firearms but LEOs should because they’re “properly trained” is a frightening look into the minds of liberals.
What a breath of fresh air! We need more guys like this. I’m a Texas judge and a “gun guy” - I also carry a knife. For some reason, that makes some of my Air Force friends nervous. Whiskey Tango Fox?
The last place I want to be is near cops shooting in anger. The uncontrolled fire is simply amazing. About 20 years ago in San Jose, CA there was a barricade situation. The SWAT guys called out on the radio that they were firing teargas into an apartment. As soon the shot was fired there were 45 guns discharges. NONE hit even close to the apartment in question. it is like being in Iraq at New Years time, everyone is shooting up the air.
“The fact that legislators constantly say that average Americans shouldnt own firearms but LEOs should because theyre properly trained is a frightening look into the minds of liberals.”
Early yet, but you’ve got my vote for insightful comment of the day. Well said.
Most any “gun guy” will tell you there is no substitute for training. Besides firearms training, LEO’s must be in good physical condition as the job is not being a social worker in a blue suit. It galls me to know end when some instipid reporter comes upon a scene and begins questioning in a tone of someone using “unjustified force”.
Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)
Although, there are some people who just need manhandling. Cops deal with little old ladies one minute and hardened criminals the next minute. You can't pigeon-hole all cops into a couple categories. There isn't a job description because we are asked to do it all.
Last thing we need in the police is vets just out of combat. There is a totally different role. Citizens aren't the enemy.
On the flip side, I shoot with a group of cops when we happen to be at the range at the same time, and that happens almost every week. They shoot three times a week. They're not the average cops, but they're great guys and great shooters. If things go bad, they're the ones I want to see show up.
Just take a look at what happened in Waco. The Feds fired indiscriminately into the BD compound as if they were providing cover fire for someone or something. As I recall, very few of the dead died from GSWs; it was mostly smoke inhalation and extreme heat that killed the bulk of them.
And these were supposed to be elite Federal “soldiers?”
The fact that they give local law enforcement access to high tech weaponry and then hide the incompetence of the officer behind a badge and automatic weapons indicates to me that there are very few in the upper echelon of law enforcement who actually believe that their street officers can effectively control a bad situation. I could do more damage with my .308 and ten 20-round magazines than most of them could do by spraying and praying.
They like to practice what theyre good at: standing still and slowly firing at a target thats five to ten yards away.
I had the experience several years ago of observing local city police at the range. A new range was being built for them and they used my local range to prepare for qualification.
Some (the young kids) were downright scary. Their preferred style of marksmanship was spray and pray. It wasnt unusual for the overhead target return cables to be severed. Theyd brag about how good they were because 50% of their rounds hit the silhouette target at close range.
The older cops were pretty good. The best one I saw was a female in about her early 40s. Maybe the difference was that the older cops learned to shoot with a revolver and not an automatic with only six rounds they had to be good. With 16 rounds and two spare magazines accuracy isnt deemed as important.
99.99% police on the beat are not here to serve or protect. They are revenue generators.
Just last night my wife was stopped because the light above her plate was out. She had to endure questions like: Where are you coming from? Who else is in the car? Is this your car?
Now, she was driving with my 17 year old daughter. My wife drives a ten year old Chevy.
Yes, she should have had the light bulb.
But really, the cops need better things to do. Or perhaps we should cut their staff so they can spread the “protection and service” a little bit.
I dont have a lot of use for cops. They are not soldiers. And they do not prevent crime. As the saying goes, they are there in minutes when seconds count.
To be fair, most departments have their own facilities and get free ammunition but it must be shot there. I've shot with my local SO at their indoor range.
All laws are written to generate revenue , case in point red lite cameras
-——The vast majority of cops dont have a warrior mentality——
Many that do get them selves killed by throwing caution to the wind.
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