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“Cops Win Gunfights Because They Show Up With Lots of Cops”
The Truth About Guns ^ | 15 Februray, 2011 | Robert Farago

Posted on 02/17/2011 4:07:47 AM PST by marktwain

This morning, I read Paul Markel’s column for officer.com: Firearms Training Sanity Check; Why do we train the way we do? The answer: “Rather than examine or address any deficiencies in the curriculum or training program, it’s much easier to simply state, that’s we way we’ve always done it. Well that’s great. We used to bore holes in people’s head to let the demons out. I’m sorry folks but we’ve always done it like that is a crutch. It’s an easy way out that requires no thought or effort.” Yes, well, what’s wrong with “it”? How should police be training? Markel’s article pulled more punches than a paid-off prizefighter. So I rang him up, expecting some carefully couched criticism. Nope. He let police firearms training standards have it, both barrels . . .

“The vast majority of cops don’t have a warrior mentality,” the formerly active Marine and ex-cop told TTAG. “Cops win gunfights because they show up with a lot of cops. Whenever they run into serious, motivated and trained bad guys, they get their asses handed to them.”

And yet most of them have no desire to train hard . . .

“It’s all about their ego. They like to practice what they’re good at: standing still and slowly firing at a target that’s five to ten yards away. That way they make lots of nice pretty groups and they can keep thinking that they know how to use a gun . . .

“I tell them to start a string lying on their back. The groups don’t look so nice but they know how to draw and shoot after someone’s knocked them on the ground, before the bad guy comes at them with a knife and starts using them for a pin cushion.”

Markel’s been angry at the state of the average American police force’s combat preparedness for quite some time. When he left the Gulf War for home, Markel graduated at the top of his police academy class. And yet work was hard to come by.

“I was too caucasian and too male for the job,” he states. “When you are more interested in filling quotas than hiring warriors you end up with government workers . . .

“I’d say around one to two percent of police are ‘gun guys’. They’ll spend their own money on ammo and train hard. The rest couldn’t care less. They just want a government job.”

Gun guys. Two little words capable of trigger a major rant.

“Lots of cops say it to me like they’re proud of it. ‘I’m not a gun guy.’ They get all lofty about it. Like if you’re a gun guy you’re some kind of barbarian or Rambo.

“Imagine a plumber who says ‘I’m not a pipe and wrench guy.’ It’s ridiculous. If you’re a cop, you ARE a gun guy. You have to do it. It’s part of your job. ’I'm not a gun guy.’ Try explaining that to a bad guy when you’re lying in a ditch and he’s about to blow your head off . . .

“Cops aren’t social workers. Some people in America want them to be social workers. They think combat is too nasty and horrible. But they’re supposed to be gunfighters. They need to be gunfighters.”

In the current era of fiscal austerity, firearms training is particularly vulnerable to cut-backs. Markel is not having an easy time of it. But he’s optimistic that a sea change is on the horizon.

“A lot of the new police recruits are kids coming back from Afghanistan. They’ve been there. They know what’s real. They’ve got the warrior spirit. As they work their way up the ranks, they’ll start to lobby for serious training and the budgets to pay for them.”

The change of attitude and increase in real world gunfighting skills can’t happen soon enough for the Mississippi-based trainer. Or for us, the citizens the cops are supposed to protect and serve.

[Note: After visiting PaulMarkel.com, I've asked the man to write for TTAG on self-defense topics. If you're up for it, please leave a comment below.]


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: banglist; donutwatch; gun; police; training
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To: Vermont Lt
Now, she was driving with my 17 year old daughter. My wife drives a ten year old Chevy.

Are you anywhere near a college? In the college town where I live, driving a vintage of car common with students, with young adults in the car, with any equipment problem will get pulled over on Friday or Saturday nights. It has nothing to do with revenue - you generally just get a warning. It is just a way to check to make sure that people aren't driving while intoxicated.

41 posted on 02/17/2011 8:29:54 AM PST by CommerceComet (Governor Romney, why would any conservative vote for the author of the beta version of ObamaCare?)
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To: marktwain

Rin White has several comments about this:

Police Chief: “And then what happened
Cop: “I emptied my 9 millimeter weapon”
Chief:” And then what happened”
Cop: “They...left”


42 posted on 02/17/2011 8:42:52 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: circlecity

“When I need help at 3:00 AM I want a gun guy showing up not a doughnut guy.”

Um, then you had better be that gun guy. Cops are not required to show up or perform any heroics to save you if and when they do. They also take a looooooong time in fear-based minutes to show up. The majority of violent crimes are over before a cop even gets into the neighborhood. It is rare that a police officer stops a home invasion or a violent crime. It isn’t their fault, either. The simple fact is cops cannot possibly be everywhere at all times just waiting to catch bad guys. It is our own personal responsibility to protect ourselves, not theirs.


43 posted on 02/17/2011 8:47:35 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: marktwain

Glad to see this article as my son started A.J. classes this week, and Richard Mack is coming to a local Tea Party meet tonight.
So now I can ask some good questions.


44 posted on 02/17/2011 9:05:56 AM PST by Excellence (Buy Progresso, take off the label, write "not halal," mail to Campbell's soup company.)
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To: sergeantdave

“nothing like a fine knife for backup.”

Amen - but don’t forget to take it out of your pocket before entering the Pentagon. Had to get a Pentagon pass yesterday and almost walked in with it. Not a good introduction...

Colonel, USAFR


45 posted on 02/17/2011 9:44:50 AM PST by jagusafr ("We hold these truths to be self-evident...")
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To: TankerKC

“Cops aren’t warriors. If this bohunk wants to be a warrior, he can re-up in The Corps.”

I beg to differ on that. When they face criminals who are willing to kill or beat someone, including police, then I think it helps to have a warrior mentality. I work to have one so that I am ready if needed. If you don’t have the mentality of self preservation and the ability to back it up then you should lock yourself in your home and never come out.The streets are a mean place for sheep and it is better to be ready and not need it than to need it and not be ready.


46 posted on 02/17/2011 12:47:34 PM PST by RickB444 (This is NOT my president.)
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To: marktwain
Accurate for the most part.

When the local deputies come to the ranges for re-certification, I have learned to not be there. Most of these guys don't know much about guns, and many are just dangerous.

47 posted on 02/17/2011 1:40:43 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Vermont Lt
Many cops view themselves and act like soldiers.

Spend a few minutes talking with them.

48 posted on 02/17/2011 1:44:50 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: marktwain

Actually, it may be a good thing that the cops *aren’t* “gun guys.” Given their general and apparent willingness to violate the various Constitutions at the behest of politicians & illegitimate laws then it is relatively safe to say that most cops are of the “just following orders” vein.


49 posted on 02/18/2011 8:39:35 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: jagusafr
What a breath of fresh air! We need more guys like this. I’m a Texas judge and a “gun guy” - I also carry a knife. For some reason, that makes some of my Air Force friends nervous. Whiskey Tango Fox?

If you'll allow me to hazard a guess: it is for the same reason that Maj. Hassan was able to shoot 30 or so people on an Army base. Simply put, and therefore slightly exaggerated, soldiers are not trusted/allowed to have weapons w/o express permission of the government. This mentality is the only explanation I have as to why an Army base should EVER become a "gun-free killing-zone."

What's even more interesting, in my opinion, is the mechanism for restricting guns on Army bases. One could argue that the buildings therein are federal buildings; however, ANY [military] order which would restrict weapons is an illegal order (because it is contrary to the Constitution's 2nd Amendment, and the constitution is the highest American law) and as an illegal order members of the military are required to disobey it.

50 posted on 02/18/2011 9:04:46 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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