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Rise of the Modern Moloch State Global Spiritual Communism
Renew America ^ | Feb. 16, 2011 | Linda Kimball

Posted on 02/17/2011 4:53:55 AM PST by spirited irish

From the time of this nation's founding on through to the current era, the majority of Americans saw God as the Ultimate Authority, the Bible as their ultimate guidebook, and the Old and New Testament moral law as their highest principles.

In a commentary entitled, “Conservatives Begin to See the Light,” Joseph Farah describes the ultimate principle---the ground of being-- on which our nation was founded:

“That we are created in the image of God and are accountable to Him. Without that recognition, we are virtually incapable of self-government, which requires us to be able to distinguish right from wrong, as defined by God. God has created certain institutions for His purposes and for our benefit. Among these is marriage, the family and government. But any government that exceeds its limited authority or attempts to usurp the authority of God is unworthy of its power. Real conservatives believe in the tenets of the Declaration of Independence which explains that our rights descend from God—and that they come with responsibility as well.” (source: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=263177)

In other words, God the Father created all things Ex Nihilo (special creation). He is God, fallen man is not God. He is the Ultimate Authority, fallible power-hungry man is not. God is the Author of unchanging Universal Moral Law, corruptible man is not. He created two sexes, male and female. He did not create "gays," lesbians, and transsexuals anymore than He created narcissists, braggarts, adulterers, liars, thieves, murderers and usurpers of His throne. Ultimately, all of these compulsions and vices are the out-workings of fallen man's perennial abuse of free will.

Because the transcendent, personal Creator is the ground of being of all men, in other words of man's mind (i.e., conscience and ability to reason) and soul, He is therefore the ground of being of our unalienable rights. Unalienable means, "from God, not from man." For instance, we are guaranteed freedom of conscience because all men do in fact have a conscience.

In short, the ground of being and/or the ultimate overarching principle on which America's Constitutional Republic is founded is, "In the beginning God created..." It is not imaginary spontaneous generation of something from nothing in tandem with godless evolutionary conceptions as scientistic materialist-monists, atheists in general, occult New Age pantheist-monists and even some misguided Christians maintain.

Together, belief in the Biblical Creator and Christianity is the “glue” that has held America together---authoritatively, morally, nationally, culturally, and economically-- since this nation's founding.

Throughout history, no society--especially the most advanced---has existed without belief in the true God or gods. And where the people have lost faith in or otherwise willfully rejected their deity, the fate of that society has been death, generally at the hands of invading conquerors.

We cannot understand what has gone so terribly wrong in America until we see its’ social dissolution in this light, for by and large, contemporary Americans have turned their backs on God the Father. In the hearts of such people, God is dead. As a result, without the Divine "glue” to hold us together as a people, a culture, and a nation, America is coming undone.

America's downward-spiraling social disintegration is clearly seen by the fact that increasing numbers of Americans are doing whatever they want to do so long as they can get away with it. Pathological lying has swept "honesty-is-the-best-policy" under the rug, lawlessness has all but overcome the Rule of Law, while amorality and sexual anarchy enforced by tolerance are today's "new" commandments. In this climate of mindless license, cosmically-inflated egoism, covetousness, and hedonism, the Constitution has been transformed into a magic lantern. When rubbed just so the evil genie grants the “rights” and “privileges” desired by covetous, power-hungry, hedonistic narcissists. Hence this latest outrage:

“Lawmakers in the state of California are proposing a law that would require schools to portray lesbians, homosexuals, transsexuals and those who have chosen other alternative sexual lifestyles as positive role models to children in all public schools there.” http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=262485#ixzz1DoqwYh00

Social Disintegration

Sociologist Robert Nisbet defines social disintegration:

"...social disintegration is really nothing more than the spectacle of a rising number of individuals playing fast and loose with other individuals in relationships of trust and responsibility." (Whistleblower, America's Gay Obsession, pp. 18, 38, 39)

In other words, in an amoral hedonistic society such as America has become, we can no longer trust the people we need to trust. And now, as the "gay" newspaper, the Washington Blade triumphantly reports, high-profile conservatives:

"have taken the leadership role in achieving marriage equality." (ibid)

From Elizabeth Hasselbeck to solicitor general Ted Olsen, high profile conservatives are jumping onto the "gay" war-wagon. S.E. Cupp, a young conservative Daily Caller columnist and frequent Fox News pundit goes so far as to say,

"Conservatism and gay rights are actually natural allies..." (ibid)

However, support for sexual anarchy is Libertarianism, observed Kevin McCullough. In his article, "Disrespectful Libertarians Hijack CPAC Poll---and Its Mission," he says true Conservatives are not the same thing as Libertarians:

"The truth is libertarians are the worst form of political affiliation in the nation. Combining the desire of economic greed, with the amoral desire to promote any behavior regardless of its cost to our culture is a stark departure from the intent of the Founding Fathers." " It is the libertarian in attendance that produced the free pornographic calendar passed out to attendees in 2010. It is the libertarians in attendance who openly promote the inclusion of groups like GOProud, largely as an attempt to silence groups who would speak in strong support of traditional moral values. It is the libertarian in attendance who slandered President George Bush, by claiming his appreciation for the Constitution was best summed up as a "damn piece of paper." It is the libertarian in attendance that proclaimed the war to prevent terrorists from regathering strength and coming after our homeland as "illegal." And it is the libertarian in attendance that eschewed, booed, cajoled and screamed "war criminal" to Vice President Dick Cheney, a man who served his country with commitment and still attempts to help the world understand the threat of the radical Islamic element devising plans to eliminate us and our allies." (http://www.patriotactionnetwork.com/forum/topic/show?id=2600775:Topic:3207785&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_topic)

Satanic Black Wing Over America

Speaking through his character the Madman, the dark prophet Nietzsche announced the "death of God." Dubbing himself the Antichrist, Nietzsche proclaimed:

"The greatest recent event---that 'God is dead,' that the belief in the Christian God has ceased to be believable---is even now beginning to cast its first shadows over Europe; however, few really understood " what has really happened here, "and what must collapse now that this belief has been undermined---all that was built upon it, leaned on it, grew into it; for example, our whole European morality." (False Dawn, Lee Penn, p. 433)

Like a vast ebon wing, the "death of God" overshadows America with an impenetrable shroud of practical atheism, irrational hostility and outright hatred toward Christians, Christian symbols, traditions, and holidays, as well as the America of the Founders, for in the words of Nietzsche, all of this "must collapse now that this belief has been undermined." Wittingly or unwittingly, high profile conservatives are aiding and abetting the collapse of America.

By rejecting God, increasing numbers of Americans have themselves become in essence, little gods. In practical terms, this means that America is no longer a monotheistic society but a polytheistic one in much the same way that India is with its' millions of gods and goddesses. And each little god and his cult followers (special rights groups) demand their "rights" according to what they most covet. Will-to-power, or might-makes-right has become the way of life here.

In this light, Obama is but a little god-man who has managed to crawl atop the writhing anthill comprised of untold numbers of other god-men, goddesses and their respective cults. From atop the anthill, the victorious Obama and other like-minded god-men force their will and way upon the rest. Likewise, gods and goddesses whose wicked fantasy is a sexually-perverted "anything goes" utopia are forcing their abominable lusts upon the rest of us simply because they too can get away with doing so.

America will eventually collapse, and out of its ashes will arise a global Moloch state.

Revival of the Moloch State

"While relatively little is known of Moloch, much more is known of the concept of divine kingship, the king as god, and the god as king, as the divine-human link between heaven and earth. The god-king represented man on a higher (evolved, naturally selected) scale, man ascended, and the worship of such a god, i.e., of such a Baal, was the assertion of the continuity of heaven and earth. It was the belief that all being was one being (materialist-pantheist monism), and the god therefore was an ascended man on that scale of being. The power manifested in the political order was thus a manifestation or apprehension and seizure of divine power (through the conceptual murder of God). It represented the triumph of a man (i.e., Hegel, Marx, Darwin, Freud, Lenin and Hitler) and of his people (i.e., Bolsheviks, Marxists and National Socialists). Moloch worship was thus a political religion (i.e., Marxism, Progressivism, Fascism, occult New Age)....Moloch worship was thus state worship. The state was the true and ultimate order, and religion was a department of the state. The state claimed total jurisdiction over man (necessitating mind-control, re-education, concentration camps, brainwashing); it was therefore entitled to total sacrifice." (Rousas Rushdoony cited in "The Antichrist," by Vincent P. Miceli, S.J., pp. 246, 247; emphasis added)

When the true God is banished from man's society, into the resulting vacuum rush new gods, peculiar ideas, the dehumanization of mankind, strange practices and staggering cruelty.

Having accepted their own godhood, countless numbers of contemporary Americans are now rushing headlong into the occult, that is, Wicca, Satanism, goddess worship, transcendental meditation, channeling, and ghost-hunting for example. These spiritist activities bring about a revival of the politics of ancient paganism. This means the development of a divine totalitarian state based on a Hermetic-theology of "as above, so below," that is, on the denial of the Creator-creature distinction.

"Ye can be as God..."

"The Moloch state simply represents the supreme effort of man to command the future, to predestine the world, and to be as God. Lesser efforts, divination, spirit-questing, magic and witchcraft are equally anathema to God. All represent efforts to have the future on other than God's terms, to have a future apart from and in defiance of God. They are assertions that the world is not of God but of brute factuality, and that man can somehow master the world and the future by going directly to the raw materials thereof." (ibid)

Human Sacrifice

The pagan theocratic state freely took the lives of its children--and adults for that matter--as sacrifices to the god of the state, Moloch for instance: http://www.pantheon.org/articles/m/moloch.html

The Soviet Union was a totalitarian secularized-pagan state. Its so-called "scientific socialism" was grounded in evolutionary materialist-monism. In pursuit of its' "heaven on earth," the Soviet State murdered over 60,000,000 men, women, and children.

Fyodor Dostoevsky foresaw the eventual failure of the Soviet Union and predicted that the devilish rebels against God would be forced to turn to the Devil and his minions if they were to finally realize their dream of a global Tower of Babel.

The Green Tower of Babel

Still under construction worldwide but complete in New York City there exists an occult temple complex consisting of the Cathedral of St. John the Divine, the Temple of Understanding, the UN and in particular its' pyramid-shaped meditation room, and Lucis Trust, originally named Lucifer Publishing, repository of the "Ageless Wisdom Teachings," or revelations from spirits.

Note: Edith Kermit Roosevelt attended the 1962 grand opening of the first Temple of Understanding. Read her eye-opening report here: http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NewAge/Washington_Cult.htm

Green is the symbolic color of the temple complex. Green is the color of the "new" occult pagan spirituality which describes itself in secular terms as the green-eco movement. Its worldwide utopian project is green spiritual communism. It hails Lucifer as the first free-thinker and liberator of mankind. Its' deity is Isis, the Goddess of a Thousand Names. As Goddess Earth Mother, she is Gaia. Accompanied by her feminized "gay" priest-shamans, she is Cybele, the androgynous male/female with both beard and breasts. As the Egyptian goddess of witchcraft and magic, Isis has many "feminist" lesbian-witches in her contemporary retinue.

As the modern world increasingly succumbs to the seductive power of occult spirituality, a global totalitarian pagan state is arising. As it is the ultimate counter-tradition, it will demand nothing less than the counter-conversion of every soul, thereby claiming total possession of and jurisdiction over every man---mind, body, and soul--- in a state directed by demons, or Transcended Masters as powerful New Age insiders describe them.

Researchers say that somewhere between 100,000,000-200,000,000 men, women, and children were murdered by Communists and Fascists during the 20th century. The Goddess Earth Mother will demand human sacrifice as well.

Fast-Forward to the Past

Long ago, Paul observed that there are only two sources for all religions. He said either man will worship and serve the transcendent, living, all-knowing Creator of creation or he will worship and serve nonliving, irrational creation and its forces.

Demonstrating that there is "nothing new under the sun, what once was will be again," the "death of God" movement put moderns on a fast-track to the past. In the name of enlightenment, naturalism, free-thought, the "death of God," progress, scientism, evolution, and autonomous reason, modern men have not moved forward to something new and better, rather they have regressed to revamped versions of the nature-based religions of the pre-Christian past. As a result, the situation of contemporary Christianity will increasingly resemble that of the early Christians of the first century. In his novel, "The Final Conclave" Malachi Martin captures a moment in the cruel history of the Roman persecution of Christians:

"Simon Peter at last sees it all as Jesus saw it all from the beginning. Even then, Simon sees it from a topsy-turvy angle. He and some two thousand other Christians have been tied to crosses stuck upside down on the grassy embankment around the Imperial Gardens on Vatican Hill. They have been daubed with pitch. Tonight they are to be living, screaming, dying torches. Emperor Nero, his lovely concubine Poppaea, and their guests will have light to eat by and sights to joke about. Each Christian will die in the classic sign of Satan---the upside-down cross." (cited in "Capturing the Pagan Mind, Peter Jones, p. ix)

copyright 2011 Linda Kimball

Related Reading:

Occult Pagan Revival Signals Death of America and the West

The Original Lie: Basis For America's Ruling Class Barbarians

Darwinism: Devilish Gnostic Myth Dressed Up As Science

Evolutionism: The Dying West's Science of Magic and Madness

Cultural Marxism


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: communism; homosexualagenda; moralabsolutes; prolife

1 posted on 02/17/2011 4:53:59 AM PST by spirited irish
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To: little jeremiah; wagglebee

ping


2 posted on 02/17/2011 4:54:53 AM PST by spirited irish
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To: YHAOS; betty boop; Alamo-Girl

ping


3 posted on 02/17/2011 4:56:34 AM PST by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish

Paugh! Yet another rosy perspective!


4 posted on 02/17/2011 5:03:19 AM PST by headsonpikes (Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism - "Who-whom?")
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To: spirited irish; 185JHP; 230FMJ; AFA-Michigan; AKA Elena; Abathar; Agitate; Albion Wilde; ...
Homosexual Agenda and Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the homosexual agenda or moral absolutes ping list.

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5 posted on 02/17/2011 5:23:30 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: headsonpikes

Do you believe in God? I noticed that your home page states that you are a libertarian living in Canada.


6 posted on 02/17/2011 5:44:59 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham

His “paugh” (bah! humbug!) makes it clear where he’s coming from.


7 posted on 02/17/2011 5:56:47 AM PST by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish
Linda Kimball has written a lot of words in this essay and has failed to condemn government schooling.

If children are sent into godless temples of state worship ( misnamed “schools”), they will learn to think and reason godlessly and worship the state.

If conservatives love their children, if they are are concerned about the children of this nation, if they hope to overcome communism and fascist islam, then we MUST MUST MUST shut down the godless temples of state worship ( “public schools”). We MUST MUST MUST work to see that every child has access to a conservative Judeo-Christian based education.

( By the way...If Christian and conservative teachers really loved their students they would be working to get these kids OUT of the government schools. They wouldn't be working IN the godless government temples ( misnamed “public schools”) cooperating in the moral destruction of children.)

8 posted on 02/17/2011 5:59:59 AM PST by wintertime
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To: spirited irish

Probably so, since he’s a libertarian.


9 posted on 02/17/2011 6:00:19 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: headsonpikes
Yet another rosy perspective!

If God isn't the moral authority then powerful men are and you are sunk. They do NOT want your "highest good". They want theirs and at your expense.

10 posted on 02/17/2011 6:00:40 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: wintertime

It is easy to recline in your easy-chair and condemn the efforts of others. Rather than offering up your snide nit-picking, how about doing your own research and writing? If you can do better than Kimball, then show all of us that you can by doing so.


11 posted on 02/17/2011 6:06:57 AM PST by spirited irish
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To: DJ MacWoW; headsonpikes

If God isn’t the moral authority then powerful men are and you are sunk. They do NOT want your “highest good”. They want theirs and at your expense.

Spirited: But God as Ultimate Moral Authority is exactly what egoists do not want. Hence they must throw themselves on the “mercy” of psychopaths and hope to escape their notice.


12 posted on 02/17/2011 6:11:00 AM PST by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish

Yes and that works so well! ;-)


13 posted on 02/17/2011 6:21:21 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: wintertime; trisham; DJ MacWoW; spirited irish

Wintertime is exactly right - you skypilot fans piss and moan in baroque detail about the terrible position we humans are in, spiritually, socially, and politically, all the while blithely trooping your children off to the government madrassas which pose as schools. These “schools” are a travesty; their chief purpose is the socialization of the young in an institutional setting, thus replacing normal human relationships with civic religion shaped ones.

There is your Moloch - there is the brazen maw demanding sacrifice - just down the street from where you live.

You already live under a socialist system, but dare not admit it.

BTW, the “rosy picture” jibe was meant as sarcasm, obviously.


14 posted on 02/17/2011 6:27:18 AM PST by headsonpikes (Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism - "Who-whom?")
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To: spirited irish

Two of my co-workers were let go on Monday. I guess I’m next. I’ve been job searching with no success.


15 posted on 02/17/2011 6:30:13 AM PST by 38special (AK, CA, CO, NV, WA ... WTF?)
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To: spirited irish

True story. As for me and my house, we choose to follow God, Christ Jesus and the power of the Holy Spirit. It’s not easy but it is the way that leads to life.


16 posted on 02/17/2011 6:36:20 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: headsonpikes

Apparently you made no effort to research those that you so casually condemn. I have posted numerous times that I am for dismantling the public school system.

Why are you on this thread? Is it simply to disparage those who do not share your libertarian philosophy? Speaking of socialism, stay in Canada, please.


17 posted on 02/17/2011 6:38:21 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: wintertime

I used to argue otherwise, but the public schools have become loaded with drugs and alcohol, police, ideology of a particular strain taught as truth. Even some of the private school teach ideology as truth. It’s very tricky to sift fact from fiction these days.


18 posted on 02/17/2011 6:39:05 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: headsonpikes; wintertime; trisham; spirited irish
you skypilot fans piss and moan

My kids attended Christian schools. My neighbors did not. Tell me how I have control over them and their lack of morals.

19 posted on 02/17/2011 7:00:07 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: trisham

“Apparently you made no effort to research those that you so casually condemn. I have posted numerous times that I am for dismantling the public school system.”

“Why are you on this thread? Is it simply to disparage those who do not share your libertarian philosophy? Speaking of socialism, stay in Canada, please.”

*************************************************************************

No, I didn’t - why would I bother “researching” the past posts of those who snipe at me?

Why am I on this thread? I loved the headline.

Speaking of socialism? Keep your Yankee Socialism on a leash, yourself. It’s just as ugly as the other socialisms which afflict our times.


20 posted on 02/17/2011 7:01:28 AM PST by headsonpikes (Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism - "Who-whom?")
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To: headsonpikes

You came on this thread with an attitude. If you don’t like what that snotty attitude brought you, I suggest that you lose it.


21 posted on 02/17/2011 7:05:32 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: yldstrk

There is an unchanging standard of truth, and it is documented...

Public or private schools cannot adhere to any standards of morality, because the students all come from differing families.

It’s up to the parents to educate their children, if they desire them to have character. Character cannot be learned in an environment of the lowest common denominator.


22 posted on 02/17/2011 7:09:27 AM PST by MrB (Tagline suspended for important announcement on my home page. Click my handle.)
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To: headsonpikes; wintertime; trisham; DJ MacWoW

snip: These “schools” are a travesty; their chief purpose is the socialization of the young in an institutional setting, thus replacing normal human relationships with civic religion shaped ones.

There is your Moloch - there is the brazen maw demanding sacrifice - just down the street from where you live.

You already live under a socialist system, but dare not admit it.

Spirited: Agreed, the schools aka re-education camps are a travesty. Minds are conditioned to accept as true many lies, evolution being first of them, moral relativism a close second, followed by sexual anarchy and abortion as necessary social ‘goods’ and so on.

That Christians troop their children off to these “madrassas” is a consequence with many causes, for instance: deliberate ‘dumbing down,’ mainstream news and entertainment that are shills for amorality, statism, green occult spirituality, self-hatred, etc. Some have fallen off of the strait and narrow, some are simply caught in unpallatable circumstances (ie., job loss, sickness, onerous cost of living, etc) while many others call themselves Christians but are not.

That said, your own bitterness and anger are clearly obvious. By your belittlement of Christians (skypilot fans) it is reasonable to conclude that you are an unbeliever, an evolutionist perhaps. Being godless, evolution is amoral as well.

In the absence of God, man becomes the measure of all things, and as Dostoevsky perceptively noted, all things (no matter how evil) are possible. This being the case, the “Molochian” schools are merely the concrete outworkings of unbelievers-—men liberated from God, which makes your bitter accusations leveled against Christians irrational and utterly hypocritical.

Ideas have consequences. If you dislike the ugly, evil consequences of unbelief in action, do not blame Christians, but yourself and other unbelievers.


23 posted on 02/17/2011 8:38:10 AM PST by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish
I thank God that my grandchildren aged 9 and 14 have never seen the inside of a government school, at least not as students. The oldest attended a private Christian school through 3rd grade before their mother decided to home school both kids. The standardized tests that the state board of education requires them to take show that they have advanced further in all subjects than have their friends of approximately the same age who attend government schools.

And more important, to me at least, the tenets of their parents' Christian faith are reinforced by the purchased course of study that their mother uses to teach instead of being ridiculed and "debunked" as they are today in so many government schools. However, I will say that based on personal experience there are still many teachers working in government schools who try to swim against the tide as best they can without being reigned in by their superiors, and they should be appreciated and commended by parents whose kids are fortunate enough to have them as their teachers.

But even so, as a senior citizen, aka cranky old fogey, who is still sufficiently cognizant of his surroundings to remember the time when public schools were in the business of educating kids in preparation for adult life in the God-honoring America that once was instead of indoctrinating them with collectivist, multiculturalist, atheistic, pro-homosexual propaganda, I urgently advise all parents to get your kids out of the dens of iniquity that now epitomise public schools, and either home school or enroll them in a Christian school that has earned a reputation for academic excellence and advocating Christian moral principles.

(Sorry about that over-long last sentence, I hope no one is out of breath after reading it.)

24 posted on 02/17/2011 8:39:59 AM PST by epow (I was taught to respect my elders, but they're getting harder and harder to find.)
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To: epow

I thank God for the faithful remnant such as you and your family. If America should survive for a while longer, it will be due to the efforts of faithful remnant.


25 posted on 02/17/2011 8:57:11 AM PST by spirited irish
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To: epow

I thank God for the faithful remnant such as you and your family. If America should survive for a while longer, it will be due to the efforts of faithful remnant.


26 posted on 02/17/2011 9:00:41 AM PST by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish

“That said, your own bitterness and anger are clearly obvious. By your belittlement of Christians (skypilot fans) it is reasonable to conclude that you are an unbeliever..”

By “skypilot fans”, I refer to those who believe that one or another of these apocalyptic Elmer Gantry figures(skypilot) actually has direct access to the Truth of God, and understands the unfolding of History.

I am a firm unbeliever in any instance of that feckless faith, whilst having no doubts about the existence of God, whatsoever.

Cheers!


27 posted on 02/17/2011 9:51:03 AM PST by headsonpikes (Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism - "Who-whom?")
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To: spirited irish
I know that most conservatives believe that Christianity was the foundation of this country and that most liberals argue it wasn't. In my opinion both are wrong. Our founding fathers were very well read and knowledgeable men. They base our country on greco-roman, english common law, judeo-christian, and enlightenment principles. Here are some quotes from the founders themselves;

John Adams-

The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?
— John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 20, 1815 (emphasis mine)

The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.
— John Adams, “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America” (1787-88), (emphasis mine)

Ben Franklin-

“When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not care to support it, so that its professors are obliged to call for the help of the civil power, ‘tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.”
Ben Franklin, _Poor Richard's Almanac_, 1754 (Works, Volume XIII)]

“My parents had early given me religious impressions, and brought me through my childhood piously in the dissenting [puritan]way. But I was scarce fifteen, when, after doubting by turns of several points, as I found them disputed in the different books I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself. Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. [Robert Boyle (1627-1691) was a British physicist who endowed the Boyle Lectures for defense of Christianity.]It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough deist”
[Benjamin Franklin, “Autobiography,”p.66]

James Madison-

Among the features peculiar to the political system of the United States, is the perfect equality of rights which it secures to every religious sect ... Equal laws, protecting equal rights, are found, as they ought to be presumed, the best guarantee of loyalty and love of country; as well as best calculated to cherish that mutual respect and good will among citizens of every religious denomination which are necessary to social harmony, and most favorable to the advancement of truth.
— James Madison, letter to Dr. De La Motta, August 1820 (Madison, 1865, III, pages 178-179),

[T]he bill exceeds the rightful authority to which governments are limited by the essential distinction between civil and religious functions, and violates in particular the article of the Constitution of the United States which declares that “Congress shall make no law respecting a religious establishment....” This particular church, therefore, would so far be a religious establishment by law, a legal force and sanction being given to certain articles in its constitution and administration.
— James Madison, veto message, February 21, 1811. Madison vetoed a bill to incorporate the Episcopal Church in Alexandria, Virginia, and the District of Columbia.

Is the appointment of Chaplains to the two Houses of Congress consistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principle of religious freedom? In strictness the answer on both points must be in the negative. The Constitution of the U S forbids everything like an establishment of a national religion. The law appointing Chaplains establishes a religious worship for the national representatives, to be performed by Ministers of religion, elected by a majority of them, and these are to be paid out of the national taxes. Does this not involve the principle of a national establishment...?
— James Madison, “Essay on Monopolies” unpublished until 1946

Thomas Jefferson –

The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
— Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

Among the most inestimable of our blessings is that ... of liberty to worship our Creator in the way we think most agreeable to His will; a liberty deemed in other countries incompatible with good government and yet proved by our experience to be its best support.
— Thomas Jefferson, Reply to Baptist Address, 1807

The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
— Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

I am really mortified to be told that, in the United States of America, a fact like this [that a bookseller is prosecuted for selling books advocatig what was then presumed by the statusuo to be pseudoscience] can become a subject of inquiry, and of criminal inquiry too, as an offence against religion; that a question about the sale of a book can be carried before the civil magistrate. Is this then our freedom of religion? and are we to have a censor whose imprimatur shall say what books may be sold, and what we may buy? And who is thus to dogmatize religious opinions for our citizens? Whose foot is to be the measure to which ours are all to be cut or stretched? Is a priest to be our inquisitor, or shall a layman, simple as ourselves, set up his reason as the rule for what we are to read, and what we must believe? It is an insult to our citizens to question whether they are rational beings or not, and blasphemy against religion to suppose it cannot stand the test of truth and reason.
If M de Becourt’s book be false in its facts, disprove them; if false in its reasoning, refute it. But, for God's sake, let us freely hear both sides, if we choose....
— Thomas Jefferson, letter to N G Dufief, Philadelphia bookseller (1814), after being prosecuted for selling de Becourt’s book, Sur la Création du Monde, un Systême d’Organisation Primitive, which Jefferson himself had purchased

Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.
We have solved, by fair experiment, the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.
— Thomas Jefferson, to the Virginia Baptists (1808) ME 16:320

If the founding fathers truly wanted a Christian nation they could have easily put that into the constitution, but they did not. For example during the ratification for the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom Thomas Jefferson reported that a motion was made to include Jesus in it. This was motion was only supported by three people so it was not carried. This happened two years prior to the writing of the constitution. This statute was well known to the representatives at the constitutional convention.

28 posted on 02/17/2011 9:52:00 AM PST by armordog99
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To: armordog99; spirited irish
Religionand the Founding of the American Republic LOC

Proposed Seal for the United States On July 4, 1776, Congress appointed Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams "to bring in a device for a seal for the United States of America." Franklin's proposal adapted the biblical story of the parting of the Red Sea (left). Jefferson first recommended the "Children of Israel in the Wilderness, led by a Cloud by Day, and a Pillar of Fire by night. . . ." He then embraced Franklin's proposal and rewrote it (right). Jefferson's revision of Franklin's proposal was presented by the committee to Congress on August 20. Although not accepted these drafts reveal the religious temper of the Revolutionary period. Franklin and Jefferson were among the most theologically liberal of the Founders, yet they used biblical imagery for this important task.

Aitken's Bible Endorsed by Congress
The war with Britain cut off the supply of Bibles to the United States with the result that on Sept. 11, 1777, Congress instructed its Committee of Commerce to import 20,000 Bibles from "Scotland, Holland or elsewhere." On January 21, 1781, Philadelphia printer Robert Aitken (1734-1802) petitioned Congress to officially sanction a publication of the Old and New Testament which he was preparing at his own expense. Congress "highly approve the pious and laudable undertaking of Mr. Aitken, as subservient to the interest of religion . . . in this country, and . . . they recommend this edition of the bible to the inhabitants of the United States." This resolution was a result of Aitken's successful accomplishment of his project.

Aitken's Bible
Aitken published Congress's recommendation of September 1782 and related documents (Item 115) as an imprimatur on the two pages following his title page. Aitken's Bible, published under Congressional patronage, was the first English language Bible published on the North American continent.

Christianizing the Delawares
In this resolution, Congress makes public lands available to a group for religious purposes. Responding to a plea from Bishop John Ettwein (1721-1802), Congress voted that 10,000 acres on the Muskingum River in the present state of Ohio "be set apart and the property thereof be vested in the Moravian Brethren . . . or a society of the said Brethren for civilizing the Indians and promoting Christianity." The Delaware Indians were the intended beneficiaries of this Congressional resolution.

29 posted on 02/17/2011 11:31:53 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: armordog99

They base our country on greco-roman, english common law, judeo-christian, and enlightenment principles. Here are some quotes from the founders themselves

Spirited: All of that is well and good, however, the quotes in and of themselves provide only a rather shallow level of meaning.

We need to dig deeper.

Every society throughout the world and over the course of history has been founded on the answers to the Ultimate Questions:

1. origins....where did everything come from?

2. what is man?

3. why does evil exist and who or what is responsible?

As CS Lewis observed, paganism (naturalism) was the greatest thing (origins account) known to man until Christianity (origins account) came along and turned the world right-side up and liberated man from nature.

As Kimball makes clear, naturalism paganism) is monism (materialism-pantheism) Monism teaches that all that exists is one self-generated, self-sufficient, nonliving substance and that all things are merely diverse emergent aspects of the one substance.

Materialist monism (ie., the Atomists, Karl Marx, Richard Dawkins, Carl Sagan) teaches that the one substance is matter and the energy running through it. There is no metaphysical and/or spiritual dimension. Because man is embedded within the one substance, and the substance is merely matter, man’s spiritual mind and soul cannot be allowed to exist and are therefore explained away. Subsumed into matter, man has no free will and his thoughts are defined as epiphenomenon (illusions) produced by the firing of synapses and the chance interaction of chemicals. In this view, man is nothing but an animal or a fleshy robot at the mercy of unseen natural forces.

Pantheist-monism teaches that all that exists is one substance, and it is nonliving, impersonal spirit, for example, Brahman, Christ Consciousness, or The Force of Starwars fame. In this view, man is subsumed into the one-spirit. Man has no free will and no mind or soul of his own because he is a diverse part of the one-spirit. The material world is an epiphenomenon (illusion) produced by spirit.

Rather than one substance, the Bible posits two realms: the cosmos (natural world) and the transcendent Heaven. This teaching is called Biblical Dualism.

The Biblical view of man liberates him from the one-substance. Man is an individual (and not a part of nature) who is both material (of this world) and spiritual (mind/soul). His mind, the citadel of his soul, transcends the material world, thus allowing his mind to stand outside of nature and objectively observe it. He has free will.

The point of all of this is that there are only two views of man: Materialist/Pantheist Monism and Biblical dualism.

Our unalienable rights, the Declaration and Constitution are written expressions of and expansions on the Biblical view of man.

To reject Biblical dualism is to fall back into materialist/pantheist monism.


30 posted on 02/17/2011 11:54:56 AM PST by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish

“If God did not exist, then it would be neccessary to invent him”

-Voltaire


31 posted on 02/17/2011 12:33:53 PM PST by Morpheus2009
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To: Morpheus2009

And we should care what a self-idolator says because?


32 posted on 02/17/2011 12:59:19 PM PST by spirited irish
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To: DJ MacWoW

This is an awesome thread and article.

I’ve had power surges all day due to snow. Had to turn off comp until now, risking it ‘cause I have to work.

Thanks for helping, DJ!!


33 posted on 02/17/2011 2:13:07 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: spirited irish

And we should care what a self-idolator says because?

Voltaire was annoying and a jerk to the point where even Mozart was glad he kicked the bucket. Point of the comment is: If people don’t believe in god, they will believe in some other sort of dogma. Voltaire wrote this in response to an atheist, who argued that once society got over religion, they would be free. Voltaire, with his attitude as we all know, stated, there would always be some sort of dogma to manipulate the masses, if not nature’s God, as he or Jefferson talked about, or the God of Christianity, then some other sort of diety or dogma, such as the “gaia” theory we hear about nowadays, even Druidism or the Old Norse beliefs have people campaigning for recognition nowadays, hence as Voltaire indicated, if people don’t go for God, they will go for global warming, the old polytheist Gods, or pseudoscientific dogma.

I quoted Voltaire because I felt his quote fit the context, and summarized a great deal of what was said; agree or disagree if you may.


34 posted on 02/17/2011 3:13:19 PM PST by Morpheus2009
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To: little jeremiah

We’ve been holding down the fort, and fending off the arrows. Hope you’ll pitch in!


35 posted on 02/17/2011 3:22:52 PM PST by spirited irish
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To: wagglebee

There are so many things going on, that I am afraid the desire to oppose the further homosexualization of America just isn’t getting the attention it needs. Of course, it is going to take God divinely acting (by His method of chosing) to deal with the problem.

My wife and I have a 15 year old son, who is a well behaved and morale young man. However, we are getting involved in “True Love Waits” through our church. After hearing their presentation, I realized the homosexual problem is a subset of a much bigger one...the loss of sexual morality in our culture and sadly even churches. We need God’s intervention.

Blessings on you.


36 posted on 02/17/2011 4:38:18 PM PST by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: spirited irish

I’ll have to be back tomorrow. Been a bit crazy around here (I mean in my little corner of the world) lately. I really wanted to chime in on the last article by Linda K but unfortunately could not.

Tomorrow I’ll read and have my say.


37 posted on 02/17/2011 6:24:24 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: spirited irish

Thank you so much for this wonderful essay, dear sister in Christ!


38 posted on 02/17/2011 10:00:50 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Morpheus2009

“I quoted Voltaire because I felt his quote fit the context...”

Spirited: You’re right, his quote does indeed fit the context. However, his quote was in fact a confession.

Though he defines belief as dogma, Voltaire nevertheless confessed to the truth: “Men have always and everywhere believed in God or gods.” Having confessed the truth he willfully rejected it (abused his free will) and thereby “chose” his own fate.

Those who attended Voltaire attested to his spiritual agony. He screamed in terror upon his death-bed...too late he realized his eternal end. His attendants said that they never wanted to be present at the death of an atheist ever again.


39 posted on 02/18/2011 3:06:53 AM PST by spirited irish
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To: Sola Veritas

“...we are getting involved in “True Love Waits” through our church”

Spirited: I haven’t heard about “True Love Waits.” Are you saying that this program advocates homosexuality?


40 posted on 02/18/2011 6:26:20 AM PST by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish; All

“Spirited: I haven’t heard about “True Love Waits.” Are you saying that this program advocates homosexuality?”

No, it is a program promoting sexual purity - abstince until marriage (hetereosexual only) and faithfulness in marraige.

http://www.lifeway.com/tlw/


41 posted on 02/18/2011 8:13:51 AM PST by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: wintertime
"Linda Kimball has written a lot of words in this essay and has failed to condemn government schooling."

That's just your favorite grievance, and you blame the writer for not sharing it with you.

Judging by the conviction with which you write, you do not even suspect yourself of being wrong. Totally wrong.

Values are acquired at home, not at school or anywhere else. They are sharpened elsewhere but acquired in the parents' home. Well, most kids don't even have a two-parent home. Only about 5% of people attend churches in Europe. It was Christianity that perished first there, and schools have become g-dless as a result, not the other way around.

Conversely, schools are nothing but buildings. It is people who make those schools function as they do. So, where do those people come from? From the same pool of humanity. It is the same people that do not attend a church or a synagogue, who believe that all cultures are created equal, and who swear at the dinner table. Those same schools were the envy of the snobbish Europeans in the 19th century.

As Christianity retreats from the public life, as it has been doing for several centuries, the vacuum it leaves behind is fill with all sorts of garbage: communism, atheism, anti-Americanism.

Your problem is not with schools but with your neighbors.

42 posted on 02/18/2011 10:12:05 AM PST by TopQuark
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To: 38special

“Two of my co-workers were let go on Monday. I guess I’m next. I’ve been job searching with no success.”

Spirited: I’m truly sorry to hear that, and that you too fear for your own work situation. This tragic story is becoming our national story. I’v prayed for you and yours, as well as for all who either fear job loss or have already lost their jobs.


43 posted on 02/19/2011 6:22:38 AM PST by spirited irish
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