Posted on 02/19/2011 2:32:21 AM PST by trumandogz
Ebie Hussey's first reaction when her son announced that he is gay was to offer unconditional love. Finding a new church was a close second. "His first question was, 'Am I going to hell?' " Hussey said of that conversation with her son, Jaxn. "Mainstream Christianity and fundamental Christianity really pushes that homosexuality is a sin, and he had caught on to that." Jaxn, now 15, knew his parents didn't think that. "But I had always heard people saying that kind of thing," he said. In an effort to counter the message, almost two dozen Houston-area churches have designated Sunday as Bring Your Gay Teen to Church Day.
(Excerpt) Read more at chron.com ...
Love the sinner, hate the sin.
Sorry, no sale.
And liberals call it compassion to lie about the answer to that question. Sending someone to hell in a state of sexual satisfaction is not an act of love.
No, it won't be considered a sin, it will be considered an alternative lifestyle.
Everyone is going to hell who doesn't receive Christ as their personal saviour (Jn.3:36)
Precisely, and anyone who continues in unrepentent homosexuality has not accepted Christ. Lying to them and telling them they have is most uncompassionate.
And there, I think, you have the answer.
I will openly admit there are LOTS of people who know Scripture far better than I. I only read, ponder, and act on what I come to understand.
The Bible is clear that homosexual acts are condemned, but I can't find where being homosexual is condemned. I know it seems like a fine line, but consider the other fine lines that are drawn.
So there seems to be recognition that the condition exists, and even tacit understanding that some people would have affection for their own sex, but clear prohibition against acting on it as well as admonition against lustful fantasizing. But genuine affection?
Channel it correctly, make it about genuine love and not lust, and I'd be hard pressed to find where the condemnation is.
If you love the sinner you tell them they need to repent. If you hate the sinner you encourage them to follow the road to Hell.
These people love the sin. Their professed love for these people is a lie.
Paul calls these affections "vile affections" and that's not as a compliment. What you call "being homosexual" Pauls calls being given up by God unto vile affections.
The Jewish approach, (NOT the nouveau-reformerino-americano approach but the standard Conservative and Orthodox approach), is “God says no. Says so right here.”
I suppose if this happens to you and you’re Jewish you could still find a nice lesbian Rabbette with a guitar - perhaps even one with Star of David inlays on the fretboard - to lead you in harmonious biblically themed songs, but at some point I suppose you’d wonder whether you weren’t making a life out of purposely violating God’s commandments.
Then again, I suppose the reason all sinners seek comfort with their kind is so that we can try to ignore the ways we are offending Him.
The only person sending any gays to hell is the gay himself. On that last day, you’re accountable for your actions.
Back in the 50’s you couldn’t get my Dad to attend church. He said they were just a bunch of hypocrites. Looks like he was right.
I understand your point re Romans 1:26, but in that same verse Paul specifically says, "changed the natural use, i.e., the act, and in 1:27 he refers to the unnatural lust.
And that is my point. The act, and lust connected with homosexuality, is clearly condemned.
But just as heterosexual men have a natural urge to get together with receptive women, the act of adultery, and the lust of fantasizing, are condemned. Being heterosexual is not condemned. Acting improperly is.
The church is full of people. People are imperfect. Most of us fit right in.
Sorry, but “being” homosexual is simply choosing that lifestyle. We ALL are created in God’s image and ALL are born heterosexual.
Homosexuality, like pedophelia, is a vile, disgusting choice that He rejects as an abomination.
Actually, Paul gives a long list of wrongdoers who won’t enter the Kingdom of God. Homosexual acts are just one of the items on the list, not singled out as particularly or uniquely sinful. Right in the middle of the list, in fact.
“Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers—none of these will inherit the kingdom of God.”
Exile all fornicators, adulterers, greedy people, drunkards and revilers and you’ll have really thinned out the average church. :)
No-one can teach/preach what the Bible clearly declares of fornication and those given over to a reprobate mind without offending the sinner. I was enrolled in bible college when my youngest daughter was born. My son was just out of diapers. In highschool the public school system followed -what I am told is national policy and encouraged my son to “try it”(homosexual lifestyle) and “Decide for himself” (only when they had their answer form him were we brought in to their discussion. They were amazed that my son had LIED to them. And that though I am Christian -and will NOT compromise the Christian doctrine I do love my son.My son knows even today that I will Never tell him the LIE It’s Ok to be gay.I will not be supportive of that way that seems right ,but the end thereof is death.My sons friends know how I am convicted that their lifestyle choice is against God— but I can still love them enough to tell them I will NOT accept that choice—but they are more than a choice.
First they did away with the blood because blood makes some folks uncomfortable-then sin—but what is Christianity with the atoning blood of the Lamb slain for our transgressions-that we might be reconciled to the Father -and Live and what is there to the Law if they do not hear of sin.A man will not change unless he is convicted of the wages of sin and the
salvation in the shed blood of our Redeemer.
quiller in Johns’ Gospel Chapter 3 it is written “this then is the condemnation a light has come into the world,but men preferred the darkness -because their deeds were evil.(verse 19?) You are correct in your assessment. If they come to the light and see clearly that their deeds are evil there is hope.
If their deeds keep them from the light they are condemned by their own actions. IT is not the attraction that is the evil deed but like King David with another mans wife when he dwelt upon her naked ,in her bath ,and dreamed of acting upon his fantasy then that which he conceived in his heart became sin.
If one of my children indicated that he or she was “gay,” I would immediately begin searching for the adult who had molested him or her.
When a man repents of the sin— is it blotted out? If a man continues in sin-after he has been forgiven -has he made the word of G-d false? OR does he earn the titles you suggest if
exiled would thin the population of most churches. This is why any pew warmer ought pay some attention to his/her congregation-to exort the truth to others and to edify the
Gospel in them.In Christ we are a new Creation.If we repent and choose to continue in sin after we have been forgiven the error /sin -is our own- and we cannot blame our Savior.
‘..almost two dozen Houston-area churches have designated Sunday as Bring Your Gay Teen to Church Day.’
Unbeliebable.
Surely this is the end times.
Very good thinking. Many (most?) homosexuals were molested by the opposite sex as children.
I agree.
Which is why those on this thread who have condemned those with sinful tendencies towards homosexual attraction are flat wrong.
God condemns the action, not the tendency, or we would by definition all be doomed. ALL of us have sinful tendencies and desires, which is exactly why we need the saving grace of Christ.
Homosexuality, like pedophelia, is a vile, disgusting choice that He rejects as an abomination.
And you might be absolutely correct in your belief.
There are times I wish I could come to that level of such absolute certainty in knowing what is in God's heart.
But there are also times in which I have to go with an old monk's approach:
I am not certain that I am perfect in worshipping God.
But I am certain that He loves that I want to be.
Most dads would rather be told they have terminal cancer than have their son tell them he is gay, particularly if it is your only son. Coming out of the closet is a selfish act. It turns your problem into your family’s problem and forces everyone around you to live a lie. I have seen this destroy families. If you are gay, stay in the closet.
Just read God’s words in the Bible - He states very, very clearly that choosing homosexuality is an abomination.
Why would anyone choose to follow a monk’s version of the Truth when God’s word is there for anyone to read.
Go with the original perfect creator (God) - not a failed, human follower of the original.
“Very good thinking. Many (most?) homosexuals were molested by the opposite sex as children. “
They were molested by someone. That’s why the push to ‘normalize’ pedophilia in psych world. Doing so will greatly increase the number of gays, thereby increasing disorder in society, thereby giving those jerks more jobs in their ‘profession’.
A large number, at least. And if it were possible to find non-”gay-affirming” psychological counseling, that would be the other effort I would make. I have no intention of facilitating or approving my children’s participation in promiscuity of any kind.
If you take away the same sex lust then, by definition, you no longer have a homosexual.
“Am I going to hell?”
“Have you entered into a relationship with Christ as your savior?”
The earth, everything in it and everything on it is condemned. Repentance and turning from sin is the only answer. Does that mean sinners never stumble? No. But it does mean that the forgiven pick themselves up and try again. The idea is to become more like Christ. It is referred to as “putting on the mind of Christ”. It means to turn from sinful thoughts and actions. That would include being improperly attracted to same sex people.
Becoming like Christ is a journey. The forgiven fall sometimes and Lucifer then whispers in their ear that they've failed and lost forgiveness. That's not true. God doesn't care if you stumble. What He wants is for you to pick yourself up and start the journey again, leaving your sin behind. What is sin is accepting Christ and living life your way and ignoring sin. God sees man's heart and knows if he's truly repentant. Stumbling on the journey doesn't mean it's over.
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Those in a position of power are telling people that their sin is "ok". It is not. And there will be a heavy price to pay for the lie. Real love tells the truth. Real love and telling the truth takes courage. The church has lost it's spine and lies to people.
I once heard a sermon in which the scenario was people are standing on the edge of a cliff. Their next step will take them over the edge into fire. Will you stop them or sit comfortably and watch? Some will reject and revile you. But others will listen. What will you do?
Only one man never stumbled. Luckily He forgives us.
But we have to ask. The new thing is to make Him accept us as we are and it doesn't work that way. But some churches will say it does. The article says about two dozen of them.
A better response would be to have a day where the Gospel is actually preached: that we are all sinners (and that “gay” is only part of that), that it may have more negative consequences in the real world-but that homosexuality is just like any other sin to God: UNACCEPTABLE, that “We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God”, and that without Christ, God’s just, condemnation still rests upon us ALL/.
J.S.
“Gay Christians”
It's not a fine line to me. If you continue to commit homosexual sex acts you are both gay and condemned. If you don't you are not.
The problem is in someones definition of being gay (homosexual).
To me, having gay sex defines it. So, technically if you are not having gay sex, you aren't gay. So to me a “Gay Christian” is an oxymoron.
As far as “bring a gay to church day” I would say only if you tell them in advance that God thinks that behavior is an abomination. That bringing then to church is an effort to convince them to change their sinning ways. To become a member they would have to publicly renounce homosexuality.
In that case, not many would still want to come to church. I don't believe in “tricking” people into church or “tricking” people into salvation. This is why there are so many hypocrites in church. They were never “real” to begin with.
Well, it's all about "feelings" with liberals, isn't it?
You're on the road to hell? Here, let me enable you in your journey. It fits right in with every other liberal concept.
And what does Scripture say about "proud sinners" Sherman? You know, those that MOCK Jesus in their festivals with contests like the "Hunky Jesus" contest: 
Link to Hunky Jesus Contest
How about sinners that march in the streets by the hundreds of thousands in the name of "pride", and even go so far as to change God ordained institutions such as marriage and the family?
God has a special place in Hell for "proud" unrepentent sinners Sherman.
You are on the right track but recognize too what Christ said in Matthew 5:28 ‘But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.’ This is a verse that addresses adultery as opposed to a homosexual act but since sin is sin, I don’t think that it matters since the principle is the same. In other words, it is NOT simply the action that is sin.....unless one wants to say that ‘lusting in one’s heart is an action’. What Christ has laid out is obviously impossible to follow which is why I believe that my faith in salvation is a continuing one... and hence I also can believe in the promise in 2 Corinthians 4:16 ‘For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day’.
What I see as a big problem in discussions like this is that it is clear that that much of the battle is already lost simply because those who promote the concept that ‘homosexuality is normal and just fine’ have managed to control the agenda by virtue of gaining control of the language. And giving up control of the language is the first and most important step in retreating and in fact conceding the battle. Using the language that those who promote acceptance of ‘homosexuality’ is endemic in society and sadly it includes many of those commenting here. Essentially once you agree to use the language as ‘they have defined it’, the debate is virtually over...let me elaborate.
The idea of ‘being homosexual’ is simply not a concept that is found in scripture and in fact, it shouldn’t be a concept that exists today. Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as homosexuality... or heterosexuality either for that matter. There is only sexuality which is the sexual component of the nature of created mankind... and sexuality manifests itself in many ways i.e. healthy, unhealthy, perverted, forms that sanctioned by God, forms that are totally abhorred by God etc. When people use words such as homosexual and heterosexual, they are speaking strictly about something that doesn’t exist in any tangible way....it is just something that is conjured up in one’s own mind and as such, it is nothing more than being a self-identification or self-declarative statement of something that is perceived but can’t be known. Since there is no means test that can act as a repeatable and consistent methodology for providing proof, the terms are meaningless. Thus if a person was to say “I’m a homosexual”, how could that be verified to be a true statement? It can’t and even those who champion so-called ‘homosexual rights’ (I refuse to use the word ‘gay’) will often say things like “we are no different than you are ”. Whenever scripture deals with issues like this, it never addresses it in terms of ‘what you are’... it addresses it in terms of ‘what you are doing’. As in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (King James Version) ‘Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.’ Note that for each of the parties on this list, the word used is referring to something that they are doing i.e. a fornicator is one who is fornicating, an idolater is one who is practising the worshipping of idols, a thief is one who is thieving etc. A thief isn’t a thief because he thinks of himself as a thief, he is a thief because he stole something. Similarly, it is not simply the thought of thinking about one’s predispositions or even contemplating a sexual act with one who is the same sex that is the problem... it is the act of doing it. By the same token, one gets into a bit of mental gymnastics with this if the question is posed “is a person who has self-identified him or herself as a homosexual but never acted on their feelings, really a homosexual?” If a person said yes to this question, how would they prove it? This is why the concept of same-sex marriage is totally flawed. There is the very important aspect to a person’s thought life that Jesus talks about that I mentioned above but with respect to this subject, it is the act that’s the problem. Incidentally, the Bible verse above uses the word ‘effeminate’ as quoted in the King James Version. It probably wasn’t the best choice of word and other translations use the word ‘sodomite’ and ‘men who lie with men’.....both of which are consistent with the point that it’s the act carried out by the individual(s) as opposed to some characteristic of the individual.
The bottom line is that by using the word ‘homosexual’, one is agreeing that conceptually it exists as something tangible and thus an entity that needs to be addressed... and for most people, that means that they look at it as ‘something that just is’ and therefore on these grounds, difficult to not accept. The issue becomes a conundrum when it gets confused with fallacious positions such as “it is something that is intrinsic with a person’s personality and character, he/she was born that way, it is who I am, and then of course there is something else that really mixes people up (even if they are generally opposed to homosexual behaviour) and that is how to react to someone who says that they are a homosexual but remain celibate etc etc. So.... the answer is to use other language when speaking about this issue. The options are ‘one who commits sexual acts with a member of their own sex, sodomite.... or perhaps the least offensive might be ‘one who claims to be or identified himself/herself to be homosexual’.
No argument.
But many of the comments on this thread have been about “homosexuals,” not “proud unrepentant homosexuals.”
Anywho, there are a good many proud unrepentant fornicators and adulterers out there, heterosexual variety. Admittedly they don’t usually march in the streets, but that’s because their sins have become so completely accepted by society.
BS. I've read enough of your and trumanmutt's posts to know that you're a friend of the homosexual agenda and are downplaying the threat it poses to our nation.
But many of the comments on this thread have been about “homosexuals,” not “proud unrepentant homosexuals.”
Any person that publically announces the CHOSEN behavior known as homosexuality without saying that he or she is struggling with the sin and wants to repent and accept Christ's forgiveness, is a "proud homosexual". You don't see too many of those stories out there these days do you Sherman?
Anywho, there are a good many proud unrepentant fornicators and adulterers out there, heterosexual variety. Admittedly they don’t usually march in the streets, but that’s because their sins have become so completely accepted by society.
I am not denying that we are a morally decaying society, brought on by numerous "proud sins". But show me their "agenda" and where they've invaded valuable American institutions such as marriage, the traditional family (through adoption), the military, education, religion, and youth mentor groups, trying to get their sin to become "mainstream", and I'll move the threat level that those particular sins pose to our society up a notch.
As you state it, we are in agreement regarding the point of condemnation.
Where we differ, I guess, is that I accept that there are people who find themselves emotionally drawn to others of the same sex, and in that attraction find themselves pulled into your definition of homosexuality.
Is being emotionally attracted to a person of the same sex, in the absence of the act, not homosexuality? From your point of view, it is not, and therefore not a sin.
So we agree in the main. Even in the presence of the attraction, if it is channelled into appropriate expressions, it is not a sin.
So does God and He calls it sin. Sexual attraction, as designed by God, is between a man and a woman. Anything else is outside Gods plan and not from Him.
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