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To: hecticskeptic
In other words, it is NOT simply the action that is sin.....unless one wants to say that ‘lusting in one’s heart is an action’.

I believe that what you meant to say here was unless one wants to say that 'lusting in one's heart is not an action., since you cite just before the comment that Christ did condemn the thought, as well as the action.

But it gets confusing again later, where you say,

Similarly, it is not simply the thought of thinking about one’s predispositions or even contemplating a sexual act with one who is the same sex that is the problem... it is the act of doing it.

Back to the earlier quote from Matthew 5:28 ‘But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.’

Yes, contemplating a sexual act with one who is the same sex is a problem, and you recognize that when you start the post, but blur it later.

I tend to agree with you on the idea that homosexuality is a construct unique to humans, and is not generally found in nature. But then, the soul, sin, salvation, and Heaven are unique to humans also.

That the situation (condition? flaw? -- whatever descriptor one chooses is open to challenge, so pick or substitute whatever best suits you) is not directly named in the Bible earned it the earlier sobriquet of, "The love that dare not speak its name."

But take youthful confusion, add a dash of rebellion, stir in an ample measure of mixed messages, and season with hormonal surges, and the condition for which you make the case that it actually doesn't exist grabs some people's minds, and hearts.

A thief who doesn't steal is not a thief, and kleptomania is not mentioned in the Bible. But a person who recognizes that the almost irresistable urge to take something that belongs to someone else is wrong, and restrains themselves, avoids sin.

If one wants to say that homosexuality is a construct which does not exist, and that a person who feels improper attraction toward a member of his or her own sex, for whatever reason, is actually suffering from improper expression of sexuality, then it changes only the nomenclature, not the issue.

If another wants to hold to the idea that having an attraction to one's own sex is not homosexuality until a lustful thought or act has occurred, then it changes little except the point of awareness.

Yes, human emotions get tangled, and humans err. A person who is struggling with the conflict doesn't care if the demon they are fighting has a name or not -- but to tell them that the demon doesn't exist leaves them even further from the solid ground they need, and dims the signal from the light that will guide them out of the dark.

It is an interesting idea that you pose, and one that I will be considering for some time to come. I am in total agreement with your idea that we should never cede the battleground, but am not certain whether bringing the issue into the open for discussion is a gain or a loss.

77 posted on 02/20/2011 4:19:41 AM PST by Quiller (When you're fighting to survive, there is no "try" -- there is only do, or do not.)
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To: Quiller
I believe that what you meant to say here was ‘unless one wants to say that 'lusting in one's heart is not an action.’, since you cite just before the comment that Christ did condemn the thought, as well as the action.

No, the way I wrote it was the way I meant it. I was just pointing out that if we are only considering ‘actions that are against the will and commandments of God’ to be sin, this isn’t in step with the words of Jesus who extended the definition of sin as well to what goes on in our very thought life. Here....., I realize that I’ve worded it in a confusing way so let me reword. Sin can be defined as any action that go against the express will, purpose and commandments of God including the action of even thinking about that sinful activity in a lustful way. The problem with my new wording is that for some people, they will have difficulty with the concept of equating ‘thinking in a lustful way’ with being an action since there are potentially no outward signs of ‘action’ per se. The point to all this is that God cares very deeply what we think about, not just what we do. I do believe that there is a difference between sin (as an action) and sin (as something that exists only in one’s mind). For the first case, the sin also has profound and immediate impact on all those who are around the individual as well as the individual himself/herself. For the second case, it is a ‘primarily’ a case of it being sin that stands strictly between the individual and God....and since there are no outwardly appearances to that sin, at first glance it may not look like it has any impact on any other individuals. If the individual is one who is not a Christian, there may in fact be no (or very little) immediate impact at all.... thinking about something continually will eventually lead to taking action in a particular direction. However, we know that it is possible for Christians to sin as well non-Christians and this I think is the exception. As a result of the individual (Christian) not thinking Godly thoughts, a different form of sin will be committed that has impact on all those around...... and that is typically called the sin of omission (a sin characterized not by what someone does but what they don’t do.) A basic example....a Christian who allows his/her mind to be consumed with lustful thoughts will not be as inclined to live in a Godly way, be focused on God, carrying out what God wants her/him to do, praising God and so forth. Plus very simply, a Christian is exposing himself to the creeping influence of evil when he/she is not ‘taking every thought captive’ as stated in 2 Corinthians 10:5 ‘Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ’;

With respect to some of your other thoughts, these start to hint at the issue of what the roots are for sexual attraction of one’s own sex....a big topic and one for another day.

80 posted on 02/20/2011 6:31:15 AM PST by hecticskeptic
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To: Quiller
A person who is struggling with the conflict doesn't care if the demon they are fighting has a name or not -- but to tell them that the demon doesn't exist leaves them even further from the solid ground they need, and dims the signal from the light that will guide them out of the dark.

Nicely put.

97 posted on 02/21/2011 9:40:47 AM PST by Yaelle
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