Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

High Speed to Insolvency (Why liberals love trains)
Newsweek ^ | Febriaru 27, 2011 | George Will

Posted on 02/28/2011 12:56:01 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife

...Remarkably widespread derision has greeted the Obama administration’s damn-the-arithmetic-full-speed-ahead proposal to spend $53 billion more (after the $8 billion in stimulus money and $2.4 billion in enticements to 23 states) in the next six years pursuant to the president’s loopy goal of giving “80 percent of Americans access to high-speed rail.” “Access” and “high-speed” to be defined later.

...[Florida's] Rick Scott, has joined Ohio’s (...Kasich) and Wisconsin’s (...Walker) in rejecting federal incentives—more than $2 billion in Florida’s case—to begin a high-speed rail project....

The three governors want to spare their states from paying the much larger sums likely to be required for construction-cost overruns and operating subsidies when ridership projections prove to be delusional...Washington, disdaining the decisions of Ohio and Wisconsin voters, replied that it will find states that will waste the money.

California will. Although prostrate from its own profligacy, it will sink tens of billions of its own taxpayers’ money in the 616-mile San Francisco–to–San Diego line. Supposedly 39 million people will eagerly pay much more than an airfare in order to travel slower...

Randal O’Toole of the Cato Institute notes that high-speed rail connects big-city downtowns, where only 7 percent of Americans work and 1 percent live.

[snip]

To progressives, the best thing about railroads is that people riding them are not in automobiles, which are subversive of the deference on which progressivism depends. Automobiles go hither and yon, wherever and whenever the driver desires, without timetables. Automobiles encourage people to think they—unsupervised, untutored, and unscripted—are masters of their fates. The automobile encourages people in delusions of adequacy, which make them resistant to government by experts who know what choices people should make.

Time was, the progressive cry was “Workers of the world unite!” or “Power to the people!” Now it is less resonant: “All aboard!”

(Excerpt) Read more at newsweek.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; US: California; US: Florida; US: Ohio; US: Washington; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: california; collectivism; florida; highspeedrail; hsr; ohio; trains; washington; williegreen; wisconsin
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-59 next last
Short video that shows all the players. Who will GAIN. Who will LOSE. This is a national scam moving down the tracks.

The real story behind HSR

1 posted on 02/28/2011 12:56:05 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

as an extra bonus...

who builds the rail? unions

you would work for the rail? unions

it’s really that simple. the unions put gobs of money into dems to get them elected, now they want ROI


2 posted on 02/28/2011 1:01:28 AM PST by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

We need more trains because the Wee Wee likes to play Choo Choo

3 posted on 02/28/2011 1:01:58 AM PST by Zakeet (Disclosure: Long on trees, long on hemp, short on Libtards)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
I'm surprised to see George Will put such a heavy and incisive knock on the Central Planners -- and in Newsweek too, one of the house organs of neo-Stalinism.

I'd become accustomed to thinking of Will as part of our NWO/RiNO/Bilderberger problem.

4 posted on 02/28/2011 1:02:32 AM PST by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

“Automobiles go hither and yon, wherever and whenever the driver desires, without timetables.”

They love trains because they’re a centralized mean of transportation, easy to turn off in a whim. Turn a switch, and suddenly large amounts of people are confined to their borough. Instant social engineering.


5 posted on 02/28/2011 1:20:36 AM PST by Moose Burger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Moose Burger
To progressives, the best thing about railroads is that people riding them are not in automobiles, which are subversive of the deference on which progressivism depends.

High-speed trains are about getting rid of automobiles.

The "progressives" want us all living in high-rise apartments, crowded into the city centers -- where we are "controllable".

And the suburbs and the countryside can be left to revert to their "pristine" state.

An automobile, a home of your own...these things spell independence. Which is anathema to progressives...

6 posted on 02/28/2011 1:29:23 AM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance On Parade)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
To progressives, the best thing about railroads is that people riding them are not in automobiles, which are subversive of the deference on which progressivism depends.

And they are also convinced everyone else's car is destroying the planet. Remember Algore calling the interneal combustion engine a bigger threat to our survival than nuclear weapons?

Of course the magic-bullet trains, unlike say, an oil pipeline, in no way affect wildlife while whizzing through their habitat at a couple hundred miles per hour, powered by generators run on methane made from unicorn droppings.

7 posted on 02/28/2011 1:43:52 AM PST by Hugin ("A man'll usually tell you his bad intentions if you listen and let yourself hear it"--- Open Range)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sten

There are interesting China and Warren Buffett connections (among many) described in the video.


8 posted on 02/28/2011 1:54:45 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife (Allhttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2122429/posts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
The concept of doing anything individually upsets the "progressives". They want everyone huddled in mass housing, using mass transportation and eating in community dining rooms, and only doing what is approved by community organizers.

If you don't want to play along their psychiatrists will send you off for adjustment. If that doesn't work there is always euthanasia, for your own good, of course. You can't possibly be happy if you're out of step!

9 posted on 02/28/2011 2:00:34 AM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, A Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
From the video:

2009 - $10.2 million in revenues, with 4.2 million riders?

It only cost about $2.50 to ride the train?

What did I miss?

10 posted on 02/28/2011 2:01:42 AM PST by Quiller (When you're fighting to survive, there is no "try" -- there is only do, or do not.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

The Chinese build ‘ghost towns’; Obama wants ‘ghost trains’. . .


11 posted on 02/28/2011 2:02:15 AM PST by cricket (Osama - NOT made in the USA. . . .and Obama, not made in the USA either.. .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Quiller
What did I miss?

The rest of the video.

12 posted on 02/28/2011 2:05:10 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife (Allhttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2122429/posts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: SWAMPSNIPER
......The concept of doing anything individually upsets the "progressives".

Click on her T-shirt: "One Nation working together -- American Federation of Teachers"

13 posted on 02/28/2011 2:07:12 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife (Allhttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2122429/posts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Moose Burger
Instant social engineering.

Yes(!) Centralized planning(control) along with PC - politically centralized/controlled thought really; and bingo - the frog is cooked - and they have it all,folks. These people are an ideological/political version of the 'body snatchers'. . .

An ignorance here; never interrupted by Good; whereby, no low, is too debased for these people who want what is not 'theirs to take' but who imagine otherwise and in the worst way.

14 posted on 02/28/2011 2:35:36 AM PST by cricket (Osama - NOT made in the USA. . . .and Obama, not made in the USA either.. .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

The only high speed rails I’m interested in are roller coasters.


15 posted on 02/28/2011 2:43:16 AM PST by Roccus (Pass enough laws and EVERYONE becomes a law breaker.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
George is sounding like he has been listening to Glenn with that last line, hmmm... ya think he'd give him credit, na nevermind.....

But back to cars, yes it is the freedom of them they hate.

Even more so?

General Aviation, i.e. Small Aircraft. Don't even get me started on how they have mucked that one up...

16 posted on 02/28/2011 2:58:03 AM PST by taildragger (( Palin / Mulally 2012 ))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
......The concept of doing anything individually upsets the "progressives

Indeed; and we have only to hear Obama speak; whereby he replaces the language of authentic 'leadership' - as he did most recently and typically per ME crisis - with sprinklings of we must speak in "ONE voice"; we must act "in concert"; be it 'one world or 'one nation'. . .

The irony, of course, the 'smoke and mirrors'; the deception of their language. It is not 'one' voice they want to speak in; nor those 'in concert'; they want to hear; it is only their own voice, collectively speaking and with accompanying self and group narcissism, that matters.

Interesting, how Obama - as mega narcissist - relishes his identity as 'the ONE'. . .and in his mind, the 'only' as well.

17 posted on 02/28/2011 3:24:08 AM PST by cricket (Osama - NOT made in the USA. . . .and Obama, not made in the USA either.. .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

The problem with high speed rail is that sounds too good be true.

It makes promises that can’t be fulfilled and the price tag is so high that it reminds one of ponzi scams.

People who fall for it are suckers born every minute.


18 posted on 02/28/2011 3:24:30 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Roccus
The only high speed rails I’m interested in are roller coasters

LOL and 'good makings' for a bumper sticker. . .

19 posted on 02/28/2011 3:27:13 AM PST by cricket (Osama - NOT made in the USA. . . .and Obama, not made in the USA either.. .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

High speed rail gets the cattle cars to the re-education camps quicker.


20 posted on 02/28/2011 3:31:34 AM PST by Haiku Guy (You can't beat something with nothing, no matter how bad that something is.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

The thing about high speed rail is that it would, indeed, be very nice to have a bullet train going from city to city. The problem is that the cost is just too damn high.

But the sums involved are so huge, that it is difficult to comprehend them. So people are dazzled by the shiny trains, with asking if it will cost $50 Million, $50 Billion or $50 Trillion, because those three numbers are pretty much the same, anyway.

I try to explain it that at a certain point, it is not worth the money. It is difficult for a Liberal to grasp that concept.


21 posted on 02/28/2011 3:35:02 AM PST by Haiku Guy (You can't beat something with nothing, no matter how bad that something is.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
They want a human beehive.

They don't have enough intelligence or imagination to want anything more than sex and simple entertainment, and don't want to expend much effort getting it..

They are militant in their ignorance, it is the only thing they have to be proud of.

22 posted on 02/28/2011 3:49:45 AM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, A Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

In 1982, I took AMTRAK from Gainesville GA (north of Atlanta) to New Orleans. It cost right at half of an airline ticket, and it took some 16 hours to make the trip.

It was like riding a Greyhound bus with a slightly cleaner clientele.

Forget rail travel (and air travel too!). If I can’t drive it, I’m not going, barring emergencies.


23 posted on 02/28/2011 3:51:38 AM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sten

Unions.....and the next election campaign. That’s all this is about....


24 posted on 02/28/2011 4:00:26 AM PST by mo ("If you understand, no explanation is needed; if you do not, no explanation is possible")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

Without even looking, I’m betting this is on the order of global warming. The scams are going to be popping up like fleas in medieval times. Control of trillions has slowly gained ground until it now controls everyone and everything uncontrolled by principle, truth, honor, integrity and every other descriptive word on the side of nobleness and good.

In simple terms, the laws of economics are somehow out the window with the baby and the bathwater. All in the name of spend spend spend like there is no tomorrow, and for sure there will not be a tomorrow that we can envision if this comes to pass.

Now I can view the link.


25 posted on 02/28/2011 4:04:23 AM PST by wita
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wita

Ask people to put the numbers One Million, One Billion and One Trillion in ascending order, and half of them will get it wrong.


26 posted on 02/28/2011 4:17:06 AM PST by Haiku Guy (You can't beat something with nothing, no matter how bad that something is.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

Why is this being debated? Can’t the Republicans in the House call it DOA and have a nice little savings for the budget without “the pain” of real budget cuts (in politic-speak), roughly equal to 1/3 of NASA’s budget each year?

The Congressional Republicans need to declare this scam DOA, be done with it, and look to the next area to cut, and the one after that, and after that, etc...and hopefully make it to entitlements sooner than later.


27 posted on 02/28/2011 4:17:29 AM PST by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Quiller

Interestingly, if one wants to read up on low speed trains, one need look no further than the latest letter from Warren Buffet to stockholders.

He and his investors own a low speed rail, and he speaks more than once on the capital expenditures necessary to keep the rail viable and operating in a low speed environment. The railroad moves over 40 percent of all freight carried by truck or train in the US.

Companies pay a premium for the “stuff” that earns them a living, transported by the BNSF railroad. I hardly think your average human is going to be paying a premium for a ticket to nowhere that has little or nothing to do with making a living. Unless you happen to work for the railroad.

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/02/26/read-warren-buffetts-latest-berkshire-hathaway-letter-to-shareholders/

Long read.


28 posted on 02/28/2011 4:21:20 AM PST by wita
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

High speed rail is not a bad idea. It would replace much of the air travel which is becoming a very inefficient system. The problem is that rail should be built with private money and the fact that this is not the right time yet.


29 posted on 02/28/2011 4:23:23 AM PST by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SWAMPSNIPER

Well said!


30 posted on 02/28/2011 4:25:59 AM PST by wita
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Haiku Guy

It’s so simple, the one that reaches the moon with nothing left over but cost overruns, is last, while the one that gets to nirvana, Utopia, and Cucamonga, is second. Whatever is left is first.

See, piece of cake, and you get to eat it too. The cake I mean.


31 posted on 02/28/2011 4:39:08 AM PST by wita
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: cricket

Uh-huh. One voice. HIS voice. In front of the ubiquitous teleprompter, rattling in his head.


32 posted on 02/28/2011 4:46:25 AM PST by Twinkie ( PEACE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: taildragger
George is sounding like he has been listening to Glenn with that last line, hmmm... ya think he'd give him credit, na nevermind.....

Will was around long before Beck. And will likely be writing long after we've forgotten the latter.

33 posted on 02/28/2011 4:51:39 AM PST by BfloGuy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: clee1

A few years back I used to regularly ride the Amtrak between Tampa and Jacksonville, FL.

Much more comfortable than airplanes. You can actually plug in devices, spread out and get some work done. By the time you figured in dealing with security and baggage, not that big a time differential from flying.

IF train was on time, which was a VERY BIG IF.

Most of the time it would get to destination anywhere from 30 minutes to 4 hours late, once 10 hours. Being on time was a cause for amazement and celebration.

When you get to Jax, the station is 10 miles west of downtown, out in the middle of nowhere and not the best of neighborhoods, if you get my drift.

Can’t run a railroad that way, as they used to say. Not unless you’ve got big subsidies from the taxpayers.


34 posted on 02/28/2011 4:59:15 AM PST by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

bttt


35 posted on 02/28/2011 5:05:14 AM PST by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

The Hooterville Cannonball:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7_-N_zTJnk


36 posted on 02/28/2011 5:05:55 AM PST by iowamark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

Liberals love trains because it’s how you heard and transport people to the work camps and the ovens.


37 posted on 02/28/2011 5:08:30 AM PST by Arcy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: clee1
....Forget rail travel (and air travel too!). If I can’t drive it, I’m not going, barring emergencies.

Will $5 to $6 gas change your driving decisions? Liberals are banking on it.

38 posted on 02/28/2011 5:21:27 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife (Allhttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2122429/posts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

Nope... because ticket prices will rise in equal proportion. Also, factor in a rental car when you get where you are going....


39 posted on 02/28/2011 5:36:51 AM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan
By the time you figured in dealing with security and baggage, not that big a time differential from flying.

That will last until two hours after a terrorist attack on a train.

40 posted on 02/28/2011 5:47:50 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (You CAN get blood from a stone, if you throw it hard enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: clee1

I hear you but the Left doesn’t care. They’ll be limiting our energy sources until we can’t fill the tank or heat our “large” homes.

We need to elect representatives that understand the hell coming at us.


41 posted on 02/28/2011 6:10:17 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife (Allhttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2122429/posts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: clee1
. Also, factor in a rental car when you get where you are going.

Exactly. High speed rail (HSR) makes no sense going from Tampa to Orlando because neither city has effective local transportation. If you live in Clearwater it would be a 45 minute drive to the proposed Tampa station. You would then need to park (paying of course), get on the train, ride to Orlando, rent a car, then drive to your destination. It will probably take 3 hours total while the current drive is 1 hour 45 minutes and it will also be more expensive. HSR would only make sense if you were linking transit systems.

42 posted on 02/28/2011 6:25:24 AM PST by Armando Guerra
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

they love trains because in the first half of the 20th. century they were proven to be a very efficient and effective method of shipping vast portions of the population off into camps....


43 posted on 02/28/2011 6:41:26 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

If I had a job fifty to one hundred miles from my home, then I guess high-speed rail would be great. But I don’t live that far from my job, and neither do most Americans. The only commuters who use less-than-high speed rail now are the ones who work in the huge megalopolises. In short, there is no demand for high-speed rail. Except in the wild imaginations of liberal eco-freaks.


44 posted on 02/28/2011 6:45:33 AM PST by driftless2 (For long-term happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: freedomfiter2
High speed rail is not a bad idea. It would replace much of the air travel which is becoming a very inefficient system.

Never happen. For medium to short distances driving is far more convenient (and cheaper). For long distances air has huge and insurmountable time advantages.

HSR could possibly work in North East corrider. But then I understand that the amtrak train there STILL doesn't make a profit.

The problem is that rail should be built with private money and the fact that this is not the right time yet.

If HSR had potential for being a profitable enterprise it would already be being built with private funds. It is not because the money people KNOW that HSR will never make a profit.

45 posted on 02/28/2011 7:03:44 AM PST by John O (God Save America (Please))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Twinkie
Uh-huh. One voice. HIS voice. In front of the ubiquitous teleprompter, rattling in his head.

Still shudder at the memory of 'the ONE'; making his late night 'coming out'-as-President speech; in Chicago.

Rather than celebratory with his Campaign folks; he was totally alone on stage; (think big screen(s?) behind him). No VP; no Michelle, family; NO one. It was a frightening MO in the message it communicated. i.e. a 'Second Coming event' and O was the singular. . .answer. The spotlight shone, directly upon him; and only HIM. Could not count the I's that filled every sentence he uttered - and the messianic intonations added.

And then there was the event in LA. . . the Greek columns, et al; ad nauseum and the garbage - before and after.

That and the rest of Obama's history and MO; it's own foretelling. . .

46 posted on 02/28/2011 7:04:59 AM PST by cricket (Osama - NOT made in the USA. . . .and Obama, not made in the USA either.. .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: okie01
Okie that is correct. They want us living in the world of the "Honeymooners"


Government/union jobs; small rent controlled urban apartments; public transportation and schools...

47 posted on 02/28/2011 10:49:30 AM PST by Nat Turner (I can see NOVEMBER 2012 from my house....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife

Cars = Freedom

Trains = control

The government can control subsidies, ridership, lines, schedules, security, regulations. Yes, those liberals love controlling our lives. That is hard to do when every Tom, Dick, and Harry has the freedom to take his car anywhere he wants any time he wants.


48 posted on 02/28/2011 1:46:28 PM PST by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (We be Fooked.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: freedomfiter2
It would replace much of the air travel which is becoming a very inefficient system.

And why is it becoming inefficient? It's seeing more government interference via the TSA. Why in the world would you think that government inefficiency would not infect the railroads too? We've already had one news report of TSA agents doing a security check on folks getting OFF a train.

How efficient will it be when you add two hours for security lines at both end of the already-too-long train ride?

49 posted on 02/28/2011 3:01:22 PM PST by slowhandluke (It's hard to be cynical enough in this age.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus' Wife
Willie Green should be here to defend the choo choos. Alas he was zotted!
50 posted on 02/28/2011 3:06:22 PM PST by Ditter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-59 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson