Skip to comments.Bernard Madoff Accuses His Investors Of Greed ['I just went along']
Posted on 02/28/2011 1:24:38 PM PST by fight_truth_decay
Bernard Madoff, the disgraced financier, accused the investors whose money he lost in a £40 billion Wall Street investment fund of being greedy.
Madoff, who is serving a 150-year prison sentence, also rubbished the financial reforms introduced by the US to prevent future corruption and claimed: "The whole government is a Ponzi scheme".
He added: "These banks and these funds had to know there were problems". "It was a nightmare for me," he said. "Even the regulators felt sorry for me ... They said 'how did you live with this? Not being able to tell anybody?'"
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
Delusional, truly delusional.
"All I'm asking is to make enough money to feed my children."
There is something to that. My dad always used to say that you can’t cheat an honest man.
Yes but he is right about many of his investors being absolute slime. Many had phony foundations for tax scams.
Your son killed himself because of you, Bernie. Feel that pain, you nutjob.
They made me do it. I was just following orders.
He makes a point.
So according to Madoff the government had to know about the scheme, the banks had to know about the scheme, the investors had to know about the scheme, he knew about the scheme, everyone knew about the scheme...except his family?
Sure, it’s always somebody elses fault.
What a crock of shit!
This is the important part, and VERY true!!!
Indeed, that is a claim that beggars belief.
A scheme this large could not have been run by one man, simply due to the mechanical aspects necessary to move that much money around. It is absolutely true that other people knew full well what was going on.
The only issue open to debate is “who knew?”
He is mostly correct (although he gladly went along with the charade). The only reason his Ponzi scheme unraveled was that the worldwide paper money Ponzi scheme unraveled (and was then papered over with a few trillion in new paper, loans and guarantees).
I have no idea if his family knew or not.
But others could NOT have known about this scheme.
Including the government regulators.
Yes, I know what he did is evil.
But he did have his back covered for a long time, didn’t he?
I want to see where it is illegal to be greedy. Show me.
Where is that law that prohibits greed?
Who is the authority that defines greed?
It is illegal to steal and defraud. It is illegal in dozens of different ways to steal or defraud. It has been illegal to steal and defraud since Biblical times.
If I look to Bernie Madoff to define “greed” for me, I’m really in serious trouble.
Yeah, it was everybody ELSE! Dat’s da ticket!
For the most part, no, he’s not delusional. Other people knew. They *had* to know.
The banks that moved money for him knew. JP Morgan’s UK division submitted a suspicious activity report to their authorities. The US part of JPM didn’t. At least four outside parties were telling the SEC that this was a huge scam, but the SEC refused to conduct a credible investigation.
The feeder funds that fed him money from other investors, run by accredited investment managers, had to know this was a scam too. Various big investment banks who shied away from doing business with him knew he was a scam (because they refused to do business with him), but yet they also refused to drop a dime on him.
Other people knew. There is no doubt about this. There is no way in today’s markets that you can move $50B+ around and NOT leave tracks.
Bernie left tracks.
Yes he did. He had a lot of other people in the financial world looking the “other way” and doing flawless impersonations of Sgt. Schultz... “I see nothink! I hear nothink! I know nothink!”
NO, he really isn’t, is he?
But the fact that others knew, that the TBTF banks were frauds, that MERS is illegal, the question becomes, why just him?
Is he the first of many “Martha Sewart” bones thrown at the public, so we think the “bad guys” got theirs, while the rest get off scot free?
There are a lot more “Bernies” out there, and there is NOTHING stopping them at all from doing some more of this very same thing.
...on charges of running a $7 billion (£4.4bn) Ponzi scheme and needs treatment for drug addiction...to be sent to a medical facility within the US Bureau of Prisons, Federal Medical Center in Butner, NC, where Madoff is serving a 150-year term for defrauding investors of $20 billion. Stanford pleaded not guilty to 21 counts of fraud, money laundering and obstruction and faces up to 375 years in jail if convicted.
Buds for Life?
But Madoff also plays off the usual “talking points”
Sgt. Schultz indeed!! LOL
I hope more Freepers come to realize that the financial services segment of this society has become corrupt. Very corrupt and needs 100 more “Bernies” thrown into jail. Even the TBTF banks.
His talk of being a victim will not play very well with your hard working, underwater mortgage, income tax slave.
But that one sentence IS true.
The government is a ponzi scheme.
So is “social security”.
So is fiat currency, which allows the ponzi to take place.
Without the fiat currency of the FED, the welfare state could NOT exist.
He is not a sympathetic character, but this is correct;
The government is a ponzi scheme.
Many of Madoff’s clients knew he was cheating. They knew his returns were too good for normal market forces. They knew he was cheating somehow. What they never expected was, he was cheaing them.
You can’t cheat an honest man. You bet the reason that Madoff was successful was in very large measure due to the absolute greed of his clients who thought he was cheating others and were fine with that.
You can’t cheat an honest man.
Stephen Spielberg was an investor..
But in another recent story "giving back"..
. Bernard Madoff victims to get $7.2bn from Picower estate
The victims of Bernard Madoff are expected to enjoy their biggest cheer in two years after the estate of Jeffry Picower, one of the fraudster's biggest investors, agreed to return $7.2bn....
There, fixed it for ya, Bernie.
>>>There is something to that. My dad always used to say that you cant cheat an honest man.<<<
I don’t buy that, honest men get cheated all the time. A con artist might need to run different types of scams on honest men, but they can be cheated. For example, they might use charity scams rather than get rich quick schemes.
From what I understand about Maddoff’s scam, honest men would be more vulnerable to his Ponzi scheme than to most other such schemes. Typcially, Ponzi schemes promise extremely high rates of returns (”We’ll double your money in 6 months”), with dubious or mysterious sources of these profits. A sesnible, honest person should realize that such profits (without tremendous risk) are either next to impossible or illicit.
I believe Maddoff typically offered returns in tne neighborhood of 10% per year, which while high for “safe” inevestments in today’s climate of low interest rates and a shaky stock market, is not so high as to seem “to good to be true”.
Some of the more sophisticated, institutional Maddoff investors probably should have known better, but the average Maddoff investor couldn’t be expected to know. I have a lot more sympathy for them than for people taken in by Nigerian bank scams and other such overtly shady deals.
They'll apparently live out their lives in that facility. It would be funny though if they hated each other.
Mine hasn't..so let's not group all financial services people under the corrupt banner. But comes down to conservative growth; however in the 90's it was like in the gold rush days with the Internet and telecoms( the latter which were never bailed out and never came back to where back should be)
You should be personally involved, everything is run by you, by your financial services person--it's not just getting a statement at the end of the month..you give permission to do what they might suggest..you ask questions.
It's so diversified now, more than ever before, but can do very well, if you are with good people. Being conservative in investments, you may lose out on an up and coming overly fast growing stock, but better safe than sorry. You just go in later is all after it has proved itself. It's long term you are looking at and investment growth under diversification is outside of this country.
I meant more the trading desks of the TBTF banks, not so much the individuals who help people manage money.
To expand, I was also including the mortgage area, MERS, HFT, those kinds of things.
I hope this clarifies my post.
...and then some are lazy ostrich investors...they just want returns, they don't ask how or why something is as it is..they put TRUST in the person that is the "handler" or LAZY TRUST in the friend who referred them..people like to brag when coming into a sweet deal--they want to get their friends in on it--what the friends do not know is that their trusted Golf CC acquaintance or relative has no clue....THEY JUST WANT IN.
The majority of people do not invest that way--if they have any sense about them.
The returning fox knows there will always be more rabbits hanging around the same hole.
Question is..why did a rich man like Speilberg, for instance, with trusted financial [the best] people who have performed for him over the years: need to go rogue with someone like Madoff?
...those reverse mortgages..I see them advertised on tv with some likable debonair washed up actor and think..the actor holds no clue to the bad advice given with these things...and people trust the messenger and the ads continue to run.
It would be a lot funnier if they became partners in the biggest scam in the history of the world.
Well, I tend to be a person who likes to generalize, because dealing with tiny nit pick issues misses the bigger picture.
Sometimes it can be taken personally, which I try not to do.
And I HATE those reverse mortgage ads, too.
Sucking older Americans dry of ANY equity they might have.
Just plain evil, in my book.
a) I was taught the same thing by my parents; ie, “You cannot cheat an honest man.”
b) Part of that lesson was “There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch. Anyone offering you a free lunch is trying to get something out of you. Always. There are NO exceptions.” An honest man knows what is an “honest return” or an “honest wage.”
c) Madoff’s returns were “modest” compared to dot-com equity returns, yes, but put in the perspective of long-term, sustainable returns of “safe” investments, they were very high - like DOUBLE what the real market returns for such claimed risks.
Moreover, for the strategy he claimed to employ, the returns were impossible, because his mythical returns showed almost no perceptible correlation to rather large market volatility. To achieve this is nearly impossible, requiring market timing of an omniscient being.
d) Madoff was promising these higher-than-long-term-average returns with a consistency that was unheard of. You can achieve Madoff-like consistency with much lower returns using Treasury notes and bonds, but not with equities. Using Treasury notes and bonds won’t get you to even half of Madoff’s supposed returns.
e) As Harry Markopolos noted, a “line that goes up and to the right without any deviation is a something out of geometry class, not financial markets.” Investment “professionals” know this. The “sophisticated” investors in Madoff’s fund should have known this was a scam within five to 10 minutes of looking at his claimed returns and his claimed methods of achieving them. Markopolos went further, looking for the footprints of a $50 billion fund in the options markets.... and found NOTHING. There simply isn’t enough liquidity in OEX options to allow a $50B fund to trade without sticking out like a submarine periscope in a bathtub. No complicated access to internal market information was ever necessary to spot this - merely some looking around at option exchange data on OEX stocks showed that the volume necessary for Madoff to actually be doing even 50% of what he claimed was simply not there.
f) Now to your point that “Typically, Ponzi schemes promise extremely high rates of returns...”
Yes, for the amateurs. That gets them busted.
The two recent biggest ponzi schemes have used very modest (by comparison to the small fry) rates of return, coupled with the idea of “safe” returns to suck in investors far and wide into schemes in the billions of dollars that ran over 10 years.
Here’s the OIG investigation for Allen Stanford:
What was he promising?
“The FlexCD Account required a minimum balance of $10,000, had maturities and annual interest rates ranging from one month at 7.25% to 36 months at 10% and withdrawals of up to 25% of the principal amount were allowed without penalties with a five day advance notice. “
That sounds within the realm of the possible, right? 7.25% APR for a one month CD and 10% for 36 months?
Not on stuff with the supposed safety of these investments. The 7.25% APR for a one month CD is astronomically high for that maturity, meaning there’s either significant undisclosed liquidity risk or outright fraud. Turns out, it was the latter.
BTW, in the OIG’s report, you see that the field staff thought that Stanford was a Ponzi scheme as far back as 1997. The enforcement arm of the SEC never pursued a case against Stanford.
The OIG field staff thought Allen Stanford was running an offshore
Ponzi scheme as far back as 1997. The SEC never pursued it.
"Hi there, Americans. Obama put me in charge of the trillion dollar
stimulus. My son and brother are gonna help me disperse the money. "
Fraudster had links to offshore fund run by Bidens
Reuters on Yahoo | 2/23/09 | BY Ajay Kamalakaran
(Reuters) A fund of offshore hedge funds run by two members of VP Joe Biden's family was marketed exclusively by offshore firms controlled by Texas financier Allen Stanford, charged by regulators with an $8 billion fraud, the Wall Street Journal said.
The Bidens $50 million fund was jointly branded between the Bidens' Paradigm Global Advisors LLC and the offshore Stanford Financial Group entity headquartered in Antigua, and was known as the Paradigm Stanford Capital Management Core Alternative Fund, the paper said. Stanford-related offshore companies marketed the Biden fund to investors and also invested about $2.7 million of their own money in the fund, the paper said, citing a lawyer for Paradigm.
Paradigm Global Advisors is owned through a holding company by the vice president Biden's son, Hunter, and Joe Biden's brother, James, according to the WSJ. Paradigm's attorney, Marc LoPresti, who represents Hunter Biden and James Biden, as well as Paradigm, told the paper he did not know which Stanford entity invested the roughly $2.7 million.
Marc LoPresti, who represents Hunter Biden and James Biden told the paper the Bidens NEVER met or communicated with Stanford. (/snicker)
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
"Hi, I'm Bernie. Trust me."
The court-appointed trustee scrutinizing Madoff's assets found a super-secret labyrinth of interrelated international funds, institutions and financial entities of almost unparalleled complexity and breadth......with assets and businesses in multiple places overseas that hid thievery, money laundering and tax evasion.
That serves to underline that Madoff was running simultaneous scams:
(1) a tax evasion scheme for wealthy businessmen ("losing" money is a tax write-off;
(2) a money laundering scam;
(3) a protection racket for affinity groups,
(4) aiding and abetting wealthy tax-exempt foundations to evade US banking laws and the IRS.
(5) hiding money for wealthy businessmen some of which was used for campaign donations (FEC fraud), and foundation fraud (IRS fraud)
Keep in mind Bernies investors were savvy, astute successful business people, accustomed to constructing, picking apart and analyzing financial statements. One investor who spoke to reporters was a stockbroker (her family invested with Bernie for generations---the family's patriarch founded the wildly successful Stop and Shop supermarket chain). Other investors gave Madoff $100-500 millions to "invest" for years and years.
Madoff apparently made insider deals with many of his "investors." He would guarantee a certain return if they invested a certain amount. Federal authorities announced a $7.2B deal to settle the largest lawsuit with the estate of "philanthropist" Jeffry Picower---a big backer of Planned Parenthood. Mrs Picower claims her husband did not know Madoff was a crook (as she spent the fraudulent 900% profits). Mr Picower drowned after suffering a heart attack in his Florida swimming pool in 2009.
“Other people knew. There is no doubt about this. There is no way in todays markets that you can move $50B+ around and NOT leave tracks.”
You’re right. I revise my previous remarks. Other people had to have known.
Sorry, I attribute it to simple human greed and human nature.
Madoff's investment appeared to be making astounding, unexplainable returns. Massive growth. I have no clue why someone wealthy like Speilberg would "invest" with Madoff, except that enough is never enough. Everybody wants more. If you have cash, you want to put it to work, not sit on it. You want it to grow as fast as possible. Even if you are mother Theresa or Akiane and only want to give it away to charity at somepoint, it is human nature to want more and to want to maximize your investments.
Madoff appeared to maximize everybody's investment. Except that he violated the simple rule that all honest men know, which is "If it seems to good to be true, it probably is."
Many of his clients knew he was cheating, they just thought he was cheating others, and not him.
"So why did these smart and skeptical investors keep investing? They, like many Madoff investors, assumed Madoff was somehow illegally trading on information from his market-making business for their benefit. They didn't consider the possibility that he was clean on that score but running a good old-fashioned Ponzi scheme."
"Good grief. Anyone who invested with Madoff thinking he was gaining on insider trading deserves to lose it all. "
From this source:
"Good grief. Anyone who invested with Madoff thinking he was gaining on insider trading deserves to lose it all. "
From this source:
Investing with Madoff was like being in a private, elite club away from the troglodytes of every day investing.
Yes, a private club that just happened to pay out impossible returns for the perceived risk. If he was paying 1% per year, I don’t think that exclusive club would have been so popular.
It comes down to greed alone. Pure and simple.