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Ford warns electric cars may be only for the rich
The Telegraph ^ | 3/2/2011 | Graham Ruddick, Geneva

Posted on 03/02/2011 3:45:10 PM PST by bruinbirdman

Ford's chief financial officer has warned predictions of a surge in electric car sales are "very ambitious", as next generation vehicles dominate the Geneva Motor Show.

Lewis Booth, a Briton, raised concerns about their viability without state subsidies. Most leading car makers have unveiled new electric or hybrid models in Geneva, while BMW and Peugeot have confirmed a €100m (£85m) joint venture to develop electric technologies.

However, Mr Booth said: "Electric vehicles at the moment are still very expensive and have limitations. There is a question mark about how long governments can subsidise vehicles when they are under so much pressure from other funding issues.

"Some of the sales projections... for electric vehicles are very ambitious because I am not sure how customers are going to be able to afford to pay.

"Our philosophy is that we have a suite of technologies, from continuing to improve conventional vehicles, right through to plug-ins, hybrids and electric vehicles. The customer is going to decide and we want to satisfy all customers, not just rich customers."

Philippe Varin, chief executive of Peugeot, warned Europe is in danger of being left behind by Asia and America if it does not improve investment in infrastructure for low-carbon vehicles. "We have to standardise infrastructure. We are late compared to Asia," he said.

"When you look at the amount of money supporting car manufacturing in

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cars; electric; ford; rich
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Only the rich and ........................ the federal government.
1 posted on 03/02/2011 3:45:11 PM PST by bruinbirdman
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To: bruinbirdman

So Obama is subsidizing the rich. Nice work, Barrack.


2 posted on 03/02/2011 3:48:49 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: bruinbirdman
Only the rich and ........................ the federal government.

Actually, only the rich, and you+me+taxpayers.

The Chevy Volt costs $41,000 -- and I think that's AFTER a $7,500 subsidy from the federal government.

As someone pointed out on another thread: if you multiply that by the number of Volts that Chevy wants to sell this year, it's nearly a billion dollars.

However, Chevy has reportedly only sold a few hundred Volts so far this year. So, maybe we don't need to worry much about it.

3 posted on 03/02/2011 3:49:04 PM PST by justlurking (The only remedy for a bad guy with a gun is a good WOMAN (Sgt. Kimberly Munley) with a gun)
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To: bruinbirdman

Having test driven an electric vehicle this past weekend, I came away unimpressed and uninterested.

Power lacking and limited range, and no engine “purr”.

Not for me or many, I suspect.


4 posted on 03/02/2011 3:50:58 PM PST by LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
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To: bruinbirdman

I’d rather have this:

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1056083_alfa-romeo-4c-concept-2011-geneva-motor-show


5 posted on 03/02/2011 3:53:07 PM PST by WOBBLY BOB ( "I don't want the majority if we don't stand for something"- Jim Demint)
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To: bruinbirdman

You think rich liberal will buy it to set an example for the rest of us?


6 posted on 03/02/2011 3:53:41 PM PST by 4rcane
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To: bruinbirdman; ExTexasRedhead; blackie
The one bill my family cringes at receiving each month is the electric bill. We keep the house no warmer than 68 degrees in the winter and it is still a bill to be reckoned with. Ethanol is destructive to vehicles and Obama is making darned sure we pay whatever the going OPEC price for oil. Meanwhile drilling here in and offshore our own country is taboo.

EPA approves wider use of destructive corn ethanol

• Car owners whose engines and catalytic converters may be damaged even as auto makers void their warranties.
• Owners of lawnmowers, outboard motors, chain saws, ATVs and a host of other outdoor tools whose engines will break down if they’re fueled with E15.
• The environment, as this misguided policy encourages all-out corn production and the massive water pollution that results, ultimately reinforcing the devastating “dead zones” in the Gulf of Mexico and Chesapeake Bay.
• Birds and other wildlife, which will lose habitat as large-scale farmers expand into marginal and highly erodible land.
And who was the winner from EPA’s ill-advised decision? Just one group: the corn ethanol lobby and corn growers, who already profit from taxpayer-funded tax credits and grants for small producers, a tax credit for blending ethanol with gasoline, government mandates to boost ethanol use and tariffs that block imports from offshore sources.

7 posted on 03/02/2011 3:55:17 PM PST by MamaDearest
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To: bruinbirdman

I can fill up a gas tank in 5 minutes. Call me when you can charge up an e-vehicle in the same amount of time.


8 posted on 03/02/2011 3:55:44 PM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: bruinbirdman

Ford, a large corporation, having the guts to tell the truth. Nice job. Ditto the CEO of 3M and the CEO of Intel a few months back.


9 posted on 03/02/2011 3:56:45 PM PST by Frantzie (HD TV - Total Brain-washing now in High Def. 3-D Coming soon)
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To: 4rcane

>You think rich liberal will buy it to set an example for the rest of us?<

Yes and no. I work in Hollywood and indeed, notice the dumbest electric cars known to man..and they deserve ridicule. However, the libs are hypocrites (and I know that for a fact), most would rather buy a Porsche GT 2012 than a Prius.


10 posted on 03/02/2011 3:56:58 PM PST by max americana
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To: bruinbirdman

Electric cars are only for fools.


11 posted on 03/02/2011 3:58:57 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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To: justlurking
The Chevy Volt costs $41,000 -- and I think that's AFTER a $7,500 subsidy from the federal government.

Incorrect. The tax credit is claimed by the buyer on their income tax.

http://www.chevrolet.com/tools/byo/byoCustomizeVehicle.do?region&zipCode=46112&region=70&pvc=500&brand=volt&year=2011&zipCode=46112&isMultiCounty=false&region=70

12 posted on 03/02/2011 3:59:35 PM PST by nascarnation
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To: central_va
I can fill up a gas tank in 5 minutes. Call me when you can charge up an e-vehicle in the same amount of time.

Having lived thru the 73 and 79 "crises" I can tell you there were times when it took 5 hours in line to get there.

13 posted on 03/02/2011 4:01:22 PM PST by nascarnation
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To: bruinbirdman
Hey, electric cars can take you a long way. GE CEO Jeff Immelt bought 12,000 Volts for GE's use in the field, thus jumpstarting GM's [Government Motors] sick, unpopular and terribly expensive electric car progam. Of course the sale was subsidised by the Obama Administration [not to mention the billions in stimulus money GE got previously}.

That prompted Obama to name Immelt as his new Economic Advisor and put him in charge of job creation and spuring the sick economy. You don't spose Immelt thinks Gov money is the way to goose the economy....do you???

Them Electric Vehicles shore takes one a long way!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/21/obama-picks-jeffrey-immel-ge-jobs-overseas_n_812502.html

...yeah I know it's Huffington Post - but it was the best article out of Google.

14 posted on 03/02/2011 4:03:33 PM PST by HardStarboard (I'm sure George and Dick had quiet smiles while watching the election results!)
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To: Brilliant
So Obama is subsidizing the rich. Nice work, Barrack.

It's called crony capitalism. GE, GM, and many others. Baraq knows he doesn't need to give the poor & minorities anything, they're gonna vote Democrat no matter what.

15 posted on 03/02/2011 4:04:47 PM PST by nascarnation
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To: bruinbirdman

Of course only the rich will be able to buy electric cars. The elites want us the masses to get places using mass transit and bicycles. It keeps us under control and them with a clear road.


16 posted on 03/02/2011 4:05:13 PM PST by LauraJean (sometimes I win sometimes I donate to the equine benevolent society)
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To: 4rcane
You think rich liberal will buy it to set an example for the rest of us?

More likely they'll get the government to outlaw internal combustion engines, like they did incandescent lightbulbs, to force people to buy the things. Scratch a liberal and you tend to find a totalitarian. What is not forbidden is required.

17 posted on 03/02/2011 4:05:36 PM PST by Menehune56 ("Let them hate so long as they fear" (Oderint Dum Metuant), Lucius Accius, (170 BC - 86 BC))
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To: editor-surveyor

Well, the nice thing about electric cars is they are completely powered with electricity produced by Martha’s Vinyard windmills.


18 posted on 03/02/2011 4:07:55 PM PST by SonOfDarkSkies ('And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?' Yeats)
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To: SonOfDarkSkies

I’m anti-windmill, but I’d love to see a lot of commuters in electric cars using juice from nukes and domestic coal.

I’m tired of sending 100s of billions for oil to muzzies who want to kill us.


19 posted on 03/02/2011 4:15:13 PM PST by nascarnation
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To: bruinbirdman

Ricj and Stupid.


20 posted on 03/02/2011 4:17:12 PM PST by screaminsunshine (34 States)
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To: bruinbirdman

Ricj and Stupid.


21 posted on 03/02/2011 4:17:12 PM PST by screaminsunshine (34 States)
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To: bruinbirdman

We need Congress to legislate better battery technology as the last 100 years haven’t resulted in any improvements in production electric vehicle range.


22 posted on 03/02/2011 4:17:37 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: bruinbirdman

Nice Porsche photo...


23 posted on 03/02/2011 4:19:42 PM PST by Leo Farnsworth (I'm not really Leo Farnsworth.)
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To: nascarnation
"Having lived thru the 73 and 79 "crises" I can tell you there were times when it took 5 hours in line to get there. "

I lived through it too, and even though it was bothersome at the time, it was temporary, and it sure beats the hell out of waiting 4-8 hours EVERYDAY to charge up an OBAMACART.

Depending on how much you drive, maybe TWICE A DAY.

Trying to equate an artificial Jimmy Carter gas "crisis" to the foreverness of electric cars is a non-starter...literally.

Once we get Jimmy Carter JR. out of the White Hut, there will again be plenty of gasoline.
24 posted on 03/02/2011 4:21:40 PM PST by FrankR (The Evil Are Powerless If The Good Are Unafraid! - R. Reagan)
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To: Brilliant

All cars were toys for the rich at one time. If the rich rich didn’t spend on stuff I can’t afford they would never be able to make the stuff I can afford.

Like flatscreen TV, cell phones...


25 posted on 03/02/2011 4:22:31 PM PST by ThomasThomas (it said the speeling was OK)
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To: nascarnation

I’d like to see nuke plants used to produce liquid fuel from coal.


26 posted on 03/02/2011 4:23:24 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum (If you want peace prepare for war))
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To: central_va
“I can fill up a gas tank in 5 minutes. Call me when you can charge up an e-vehicle in the same amount of time.”

Look, I'm on your side. Believe me.

You need to frame your arguments parameters just a bit more succinctly.

I can design an ‘e-vehicle’ that can fully charge in four minutes.

If we were betting, you would lose.

BTW, my e-vehicle goes 48 feet between charges, but I proved the ‘feasibility’ of e-vehicles.

I mean this in only the nicest way - I hope you understand.

27 posted on 03/02/2011 4:24:59 PM PST by Leo Farnsworth (I'm not really Leo Farnsworth.)
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To: Paladin2

” We need Congress to legislate better battery technology “

Yeah - and then they can tackle that pesky gravity thing...

(or did I miss a /sarc tag in your post??)


28 posted on 03/02/2011 4:26:34 PM PST by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
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To: justlurking

GE is buying 10,000 of them to test their plug in stations.


29 posted on 03/02/2011 4:27:40 PM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Frantzie

Proud to be a Ford dealer!!


30 posted on 03/02/2011 4:27:59 PM PST by Murp (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Uncle Ike

It’d be as easy as pi=3.0. Finally, rational legislation from Congress.


31 posted on 03/02/2011 4:28:37 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: FrankR

I assume the plan is to charge evs at night when rates are lower and demand on the grid is less. So there’s no waiting at all if the ev is used as a commuter car, which is it’s best application.

I’m not for evs as a single solution, but I want to cut off the muzzies from the 100s of billions we send them. Evs and nat gas look like the winners to me.


32 posted on 03/02/2011 4:28:52 PM PST by nascarnation
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To: justlurking

Whoops sorry...GE isn’t buying 10,000 of them...They’re buying 25,000 Volts.


33 posted on 03/02/2011 4:29:10 PM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: bruinbirdman
Only the rich and ........................ the federal government.

I have a relative who works for the Feds as an undercover drug officer. The government provides him with a hybrid but he has to use the gasoline engine 100 percent of the time because of all the radios and other electronics that are in the car. Go figure.

34 posted on 03/02/2011 4:32:04 PM PST by JoeGar
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To: bruinbirdman

They are for the foolish of any means. Money
poured down a rathole for an ill conceived
device.


35 posted on 03/02/2011 4:32:41 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Very nice, but it’s an Alfa Romeo. It will look great and run well at least once.


36 posted on 03/02/2011 4:35:27 PM PST by EricT. (Can we start hanging them yet?)
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To: justlurking
However, Chevy has reportedly only sold a few hundred Volts so far this year. So, maybe we don't need to worry much about it.

Yes, the Volt sales record looks grim for GM: 326 units in December, 321 in January, and a marked drop to just 281 units in February. That's a total of only 928 units in three months, with sales dropping each month.

It looks like even the Edsel might end up with a better record than that in its final year when it sold just 2,846 units --- and if you take the fact that our population now is far greater (180 million then, 308 million now), then the Volt looks like it will be a stunning failure. In contrast, the Prius sold almost 18,000 units in its first year in Japan (Japan had less than half the U.S. population in 1998), and was already selling 100,000 units worldwide per year by 2002.

37 posted on 03/02/2011 4:48:38 PM PST by snowsislander
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To: nascarnation
Well, I'm retired, but for 30 years I commuted to Atlanta everyday, 60 mile round trip. I don't know if you've ever driven in Atlanta rush hour traffic, you know that my commute is not an isolated case as there are thousands of cars out there doing same thing, and most people live in the suburbs, and drive into Atlanta to work. Living IN Atlanta would be like living in Detroit.

The Volt, for instance, has a advertised range of 50 miles, which "Consumer Reports" says is even less than that.

And unless employers go wholesale into installing "charging stations" at work, the little Volt is not going to make the 60-mile round trip.

If those batteries are anything like other rechargeables, they work great for a while, and then they start downhill. I understand new batteries are like $19,000 for the Volt.

I don't recall mentioning or even caring what TIME of day the vehicle is being charged. But lets say you did somehow get it charged at work, with Atlanta traffic it's not unheard of to have to go 15 miles out of your way to get around traffic jams, then there's picking up the kid (kid, not kids, no room in the back seat of a volt - battery pack, you know), going by the grocery, etc. Walking to the next exit with a 2-gallon gas can seems a lot easier and more practical.

Those are just the basics and I already see "nightmare" in the EV scenario. I can envision hundreds of stalled Volt's alongside I-20 and I-75/85 waiting for the "charging fairy" to give them a boost.

I can envision going to the PTA meeting and getting home late and forgetting to plug the little monster in for a recharge...next morning, the boss is going to get a call...how many times will "I forgot to recharge, and..." for with him?

But, I'll agree with you, IF you live in the city only 5 or 10 miles to work, then an OBAMACART is just the ticket. You could probably go two or three days without a charge. But I really wouldn't want to be stalled at 9pm in the inner city with a dead Volt...it might lead to a dead ME.

The only practical use of the OBAMACART right now, is the golf course...or getting around your estate.

Of course, they will spawn some new cottage industries, like having your home wired with a charging station, or maybe buying a truck with a generator on back (both internal combustion) and cruise the freeways making exhorbitant fees recharging dead VOLTS...let's see $20 per hour, for at least 4-6 hours...hey! A can of gas would be a lot cheaper and faster.

Nahhhh...I think I'll keep ol' Betsy and let you "greenies" have the obamacart. I'm not ready to dedicate my life to a battery charging marathon.

Insofar as the gas, the USA has plenty of oil reserves, we just need to replace some of the politicians who are standing in the way of drilling for it because of their special interests.

I would think that the day we announce open season on drilling again, you'll see Ahab the Arab's oil prices drop drastically.
38 posted on 03/02/2011 4:52:13 PM PST by FrankR (The Evil Are Powerless If The Good Are Unafraid! - R. Reagan)
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To: justlurking

“The Chevy Volt costs $41,000 — and I think that’s AFTER a $7,500 subsidy from the federal government.”

Wrong. $41,000 gross, minus federal tax credit (not subsidy) of $7,500 equals $33,500 net.

IOW you need to owe at least $7,500 federal taxes, to get the full benefit.

Meanwhile, a Toyota Prius achieves very high mileage, and is priced about $10,000 less, net. Proved versus new technology, and a car company which is expected to last, due to good management.


39 posted on 03/02/2011 4:57:02 PM PST by truth_seeker
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To: bruinbirdman

Gas Powered Muscle Car = For the Guy who has some balls.

electric Powered car = For the Guy who has no balls.

Is this called evolution? Or the end of the Human Species?

Hey I like my Ford Escape, Ford Escort ZX2 and my Volkswagen Cabriolet (okay I inherited this one, so shoot me why don’t you).


40 posted on 03/02/2011 4:58:59 PM PST by hondact200 (Candor dat viribos alas (sincerity gives wings to strength) and Nil desperandum (never despair))
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To: nascarnation

“I’m not for evs as a single solution, but I want to cut off the muzzies from the 100s of billions we send them. Evs and nat gas look like the winners to me.”

Plus nuclear.


41 posted on 03/02/2011 5:06:26 PM PST by truth_seeker
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To: bruinbirdman
Philippe Varin, chief executive of Peugeot, warned Europe is in danger of being left behind by Asia and America if it does not improve investment in infrastructure for low-carbon vehicles. "We have to standardise infrastructure. We are late compared to Asia," he said.

If Johnny (& Chang) jumps off the roof of the building are you going to?

42 posted on 03/02/2011 5:08:35 PM PST by Tallguy (Received a fine from the NFL for a helmet-to-helmet hit.)
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To: justlurking

“The Chevy Volt costs $41,000 — and I think that’s AFTER a $7,500 subsidy from the federal government.

As someone pointed out on another thread: if you multiply that by the number of Volts that Chevy wants to sell this year, it’s nearly a billion dollars.”

To make it even worse, just TRY to get one for 41,000. The typical “premium” at the dealership is 5K - so, actually, the Chinese are subsidizing the government that owns a good part of GM, which is actually subsidizing the dealer, not the buyer of the car, who will be stuck paying for the government subsidy so that the Chinese can be repaid, with, they hope, interest.

The system works! Uhhh.....NOT.


43 posted on 03/02/2011 5:12:09 PM PST by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: truth_seeker

yes
evs powered by domestic coal and nuke generated juice


44 posted on 03/02/2011 5:31:25 PM PST by nascarnation
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To: FrankR

You do realize the Volt has a gas engine on board as a range extender don’t you?

That’s what makes it unique (and more expensive), as compared to the Nissan Leaf which is battery only.


45 posted on 03/02/2011 5:33:45 PM PST by nascarnation
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To: nascarnation

Ditto that!


46 posted on 03/02/2011 6:25:09 PM PST by SonOfDarkSkies ('And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?' Yeats)
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To: nascarnation
"You do realize the Volt has a gas engine on board as a range extender don’t you?"

Well, so does my leaf blower...but you seemed to be thrilled by this throwback to the Studebaker electric...so...well, it's your $41K...not mine.
47 posted on 03/02/2011 6:28:37 PM PST by FrankR (The Evil Are Powerless If The Good Are Unafraid! - R. Reagan)
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To: justlurking

How GM “Lied” About The Electric Car

The Chevy Volt has been hailed as General Motors’ electric savior. Now, as GM officially rolls out the Volt this week for public consumption, we’re told the much-touted fuel economy was misstated and GM “lied” about the car being all-electric.

http://jalopnik.com/5661051/how-gm-lied-about-the-electric-car

The article says that the engine kicks in and provides torque when you are above 70mph. That’s not an all electric, that’s a hybrid.( A hybrid that doesn’t even top 40 mpg.)


48 posted on 03/02/2011 6:35:25 PM PST by WOBBLY BOB ( "I don't want the majority if we don't stand for something"- Jim Demint)
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To: bruinbirdman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqK1LVtbmTI

HAHA


49 posted on 03/02/2011 6:39:39 PM PST by quantim (Victory is not relative, it is absolute.)
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To: bruinbirdman

Why would the rick drive such trash??


50 posted on 03/02/2011 6:43:28 PM PST by dalereed
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