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Presbyterian minister who married gay partner is acquitted; appeal possible
Standard-Examiner ^ | March 4, 2012 | McClatchy Newspapers

Posted on 03/05/2011 1:55:57 PM PST by americanophile

MINNEAPOLIS -- An ordained minister of the Presbyterian Church USA was acquitted Monday by a church panel of charges that he violated the church constitution when he legally married his gay partner in California in 2008. The case of the Rev. Erwin Barron, who was associate pastor at Westminster Presbyterian Church in Minneapolis in the 1990s, is likely to be appealed. It is the first time the divided church, which sidestepped the issue of gay marriage at its national convention last summer in Minneapolis, has dealt with the possible discipline of a gay pastor who legally married a same-sex partner.

Barron, a college professor in San Francisco whose church credentials remain with the Presbytery of the Twin Cities Area, faced a 21âÑ2-hour trial before a presbytery panel of six at Oak Grove Presbyterian Church in Bloomington, Minn. After almost three hours of closed deliberations, the panel split 3-3. A two-thirds vote was required for conviction, which lawyers said could have led to defrockment.

"I'm relieved," Barron said. "I wish it was more definitive. ... The decision is not clear for the church."

The Rev. Neil Craigan, a White Bear Lake, Minn., pastor who was on the prosecuting committee, said his group will consider an appeal. The case could rise to the synod level and possibly to the national church for final disposition.

"I think there is a high probability that we will appeal to get more clarity on the issues that we face as a denomination," Craigan said. "We've never had a trial of this kind before."

The unusual hearing, held in a church community room, featured defense and prosecution lawyers who were Presbyterians who volunteered their services. About 25 people attended, most of them Barron supporters from Westminster. The six-person judicial commission was made up of three pastors and...

(Excerpt) Read more at standard.net ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: erwinbarron; gaymarriage; homosexualagenda; minister; pcusa; pervertpower; perverts; presbyterian
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.

Seems relatively unambiguous.

1 posted on 03/05/2011 1:56:00 PM PST by americanophile
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To: americanophile

This is the Presbyterian PC-USA, not the Presbyterian PCA of which I am a member. We wouldn’t have of not knowing how to deal with such a person. He would lose his position and if spreading sin by promoting it in any way... Well a little talk with the Elders would be in order.


2 posted on 03/05/2011 2:02:05 PM PST by sr4402
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To: americanophile

Of course. But it is the plan of the Pastor to rewrite the Bible with his own words (which are those of Satan really) and lead his flock into hell. Can’t have the Truth in Satan’s world. Evil becomes “good”.


3 posted on 03/05/2011 2:02:46 PM PST by savagesusie
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To: americanophile

The flames of hell are rising around the PCUSA and the leaders can not even feel the heat


4 posted on 03/05/2011 2:06:53 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: americanophile

The flames of hell are rising around the PCUSA and the leaders can not even feel the heat


5 posted on 03/05/2011 2:07:06 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: americanophile
"I think there is a high probability that we will appeal to get more clarity on the issues that we face as a denomination," Craigan said. "We've never had a trial of this kind before."

Gays have infiltrated most traditional churches and are destroying them from within.

If the church does not appeal this, the PCUSA is finished.

6 posted on 03/05/2011 2:09:04 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: americanophile
Protestant churches have always interpreted the Scripture for themselves as have their members individually. This is the reason why there's such an immense number of different denominations and is also the reason why the vast majority of Protestants engage in the exact same sort relativism and redefinition that our society as a whole has fallen into.

You have to wonder whether the society becoming relativistic has led these churches and their members into error or whether the churches falling into the error of relativism led their members and then society into the wilderness of relativism.

7 posted on 03/05/2011 2:10:15 PM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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To: americanophile

That the issue of a Presbyterian minister engaging in blatant, unrepentant homosexual behavior is even worthy of debate in the church, as if he committed some insignificant error in judgment, is outrageous and clearly demonstrates the apostasy of the Presbyterian church and why such formally ‘mainline’ churches are slowly but surely losing their congregations, failing to attract new members or fulfilling the spiritual needs of those who remain. Sad but predictable when you treat the Word of God as little more than an impediment to be cast aside when inconvenient for those in the church - the ministry, no less - who chose base sexual perversity over the pursuit of righteousness and the grace of God.


8 posted on 03/05/2011 2:13:06 PM PST by Jim Scott
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To: RnMomof7

There are still faithful Christians in the PCUSA who are working to hold the line against gay ordination.

The problem is the homosexuals keep coming; keep litigating; keep agitating until people become exhausted from the fight.

They count on wearing people down. God willing, the churches will again refuse to ratify gay ordination. If not, the denomination is finished.


9 posted on 03/05/2011 2:18:11 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Jim Scott; Rashputin
“Shortly after the marriage, Barron wrote several commentaries weighing in on the ongoing debate over homosexuality within the PC-USA,” reported the Christian Post. “He suggested that Presbyterians not begin with the Bible when addressing the issue.” In one of his articles, Barron wrote that “if we begin with the Bible, we will likely reach a polarized stalemate. Bible discussions are too often divisive. When we begin with the Bible, we are not beginning with a natural place for all of us.”

This is in the context of a church governing discussion. You can't make this stuff up!

10 posted on 03/05/2011 2:21:40 PM PST by americanophile ("this absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, is a rotting corpse which poisons our lives"-Ataturk)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

It is finished now.. they are bleeding numbers ..

The one near me has a woman pastor and a universalist position.. Their parking lot is full on Sundays.. So many lost in one place deserve to hear the gospel


11 posted on 03/05/2011 2:23:16 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: americanophile

PCUSA - Sinking faster than the Titanic.


12 posted on 03/05/2011 2:27:35 PM PST by CdMGuy
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To: RnMomof7

Itching ears.

I’ve never seen a denomination stay strong which allows female pastors and elders. Once women take positions of authority in churches, they seem to prefer watered-down harmony to doctrinal truth.

I’m sure there must be a few solid female pastors out there somewhere, but I’ve never seen one. And I prefer my family be shepherded by a male pastor. Society has already become too feminized.

Church is no place for compromise.


13 posted on 03/05/2011 2:33:44 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: americanophile
The PCUSA has a death wish, just like UCC TEC and ELCA. the thugs who have seized control of these churches want them to dissolve as quickly as possible, so their assets, and control of their members, can be usurped by the state.
14 posted on 03/05/2011 2:36:08 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Jim Scott
The problem of the Total Depravity of Man is not limited to just Protestant Churches. Sin is present in all mankind and there are no exceptions.

That is why, I believe the Apostle Paul requested prayers for himself and all those in leadership.

Repentance is required of all mankind and repeatedly. My prayers are that the PC-USA would hear "Thou Shalt not commit Adultery" and repent.

15 posted on 03/05/2011 2:55:06 PM PST by sr4402
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To: americanophile

Of course, he’s not really married. Not in the eyes of the only One whose opinion matters.


16 posted on 03/05/2011 2:56:10 PM PST by Colonel_Flagg ("It's hard to take the president seriously." - Jim DeMint)
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To: americanophile

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.


17 posted on 03/05/2011 3:20:09 PM PST by henkster (Before we make any more "investments" we ought to be shown the prospectus.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
There are still faithful Christians in the PCUSA who are working to hold the line against gay ordination.

That's very true, and there are also people fighting the abortion policies. IMO, they will get nowhere.

Eventually I believe the PCUSA will allow gay pastors and continue with abortion coverage for pastors and their families.

You can't reason with liberals, which is why I left the denomination.

18 posted on 03/05/2011 3:52:20 PM PST by Dr. Scarpetta (p)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Women hate feeling guilty. And Christianity forces one to face that guilt and repent. I’m always reminded of the beginning of the movie Bull Durham where Susan Sarandon’s character explains why she adopted baseball as a religion.


19 posted on 03/05/2011 3:56:43 PM PST by Clock King (Ellisworth Toohey was right: My head's gonna explode.)
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To: Clock King
Women hate feeling guilty.

lol. Maybe that's because women tend to feel guilty about everything so, as you said, we try to make it all better by working to keep everyone happy.

And in matters of religion as in baseball, that's impossible. There's always a winner and a loser. As Charlie Sheen said, "The scoreboard doesn't lie." 8~)

I'll have to watch "Bull Durham" again to hear what Sarandon has to say. Good movie.

20 posted on 03/05/2011 4:03:06 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Church is no place for compromise.

And THIS is the bottom line

21 posted on 03/05/2011 4:07:07 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Rashputin

“This is the reason why there’s such an immense number of different denominations “

Actually, No. Religious freedom did that. When the West was united under Roman Catholicism it was united by force. Heretics were burned.

Is that what you want again?


22 posted on 03/05/2011 4:09:47 PM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: Dr. Scarpetta

The saddest thing is to see a once-great, historical denomination literally be destroyed as it is infiltrated and overrun by homosexuals who demand the liberal bias.

First women become deacans. Then women become elders. Then women elders choose gay deacans. Then women elders choose gay elders. And then women and gay elders choose the next pastor.

As the elders go, so goes the church.


23 posted on 03/05/2011 4:10:59 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

When I was still a member of the PCUSA, I got into it with my pastor about abortion.

Because of the internet, I learned that pastors and their families were getting abortion coverage, even partial birth abortion coverage.

That was it for me. It is beyond me how a pastor can support that.


24 posted on 03/05/2011 4:16:02 PM PST by Dr. Scarpetta
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To: Dr. Scarpetta

All men are fallen. Even pastors.

But I sure agree with you. How any pastor could defend getting abortion coverage is mind-boggling. They must have daughters and figure that an early pregnancy is worse than an early abortion.

As I type that, I realize just how far that church has sunk.


25 posted on 03/05/2011 4:21:52 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

I told my PCUSA ex-pastor that we became members of the Wesleyan denomination, and he commented that it is a very conservative denomination.

I agreed with him.

My mother was a life-long member of his PCUSA church. In her hour of illness and need, he came to see her a few times, and that was it. He abandoned her.

People from my church are now visiting her and bringing her communion.


26 posted on 03/05/2011 4:38:25 PM PST by Dr. Scarpetta
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
First women become deacans. Then women become elders. Then women elders choose gay deacans. Then women elders choose gay elders. And then women and gay elders choose the next pastor.

I genuinely think that's why the New Testament teaches male leadership in the Church--as women are more likely to confuse kindness for love. Female-led churches really do tend to verge into more odd doctrines and leaders (Pentacostals and liberal-main lines) than more stodgy fellowships who rely on men. Men just tend to be more diligent and aware in defending the flock from wolves....

27 posted on 03/05/2011 5:32:53 PM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: AnalogReigns
Amen to your post!

Men just tend to be more diligent and aware in defending the flock from wolves....

Women think they can tame the wolves. Men know that the wisest course of action is to stay far away from wolves.

Or to use them for a rug. 8~)

28 posted on 03/05/2011 6:01:12 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Well, it is high time Christians left the PCUSA. This branch of presbyterian churches has been turning away from the Bible since the 1930s. That is why the Orthodox Presbyterian Church was formed in 1936.


29 posted on 03/05/2011 8:25:38 PM PST by Pining_4_TX
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To: americanophile
Have you read Leviticus? 18:22 leaves out "they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them" which appears in 20:13.

These passages are specifically aimed at the people of Israel because these other practices were carried out by those who worshipped another god and who lived in that land.

These chapters govern many behaviors including seeing blood relatives naked, various sexual affairs and even bestiality.

So... what about the "put to death" part? Is that happening? Other than under Sharia law, I mean.

As for the church, it depends on what their bylaws were. Do they accept married clergy? Seems so. Do they marry homosexuals in the Presbyterian church? Do they distinguish between a sacramental marriage rite in the church and the civil government's "marriage" program? I'm not well acquainted with Presbyterianism but I'm also not fond of "married" clergy.

30 posted on 03/06/2011 12:05:55 AM PST by newzjunkey
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
God willing, the churches will again refuse to ratify gay ordination.

Depends on what you mean. If you mean to exclude those pursuing homosexual relationships, I can certainly agree they have no place leading the church but I am not one to support married clergy of any stripe.

Should those living chaste and celibate lives be excluded? I don't think it's necessary or prudent.

31 posted on 03/06/2011 12:30:26 AM PST by newzjunkey
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To: newzjunkey
Should those living chaste and celibate lives be excluded? I don't think it's necessary or prudent.

I've never known a caste or celibate gay man. I believe it is a negative psychological compulsion resulting from an early childhood sexual trauma that if not resolved will always find a way to be expressed.

32 posted on 03/06/2011 12:41:11 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Pining_4_TX
This branch of presbyterian churches has been turning away from the Bible since the 1930s. That is why the Orthodox Presbyterian Church was formed in 1936.

AMEN!

My husband worked for a few months in Texas and said there were several wonderful OPC churches. He couldn't get enough of them.

33 posted on 03/06/2011 12:45:26 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: americanophile

I find no passage-nor verse in the Holy Bible that can be construed as supporting/advancing/ or allowing same sex “marriage” from Genesis to the Revelation of Jesus Christ it seems clear to me “marriage” is when a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife.And there is nothing equal to “marriage” given and what the reprobate do is fornication, and prostitution,and unnatural, and impure, and sinning before the Lord, and Abomination and...


34 posted on 03/06/2011 5:24:07 AM PST by StonyBurk (ring)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
If the church does not appeal this, the PCUSA is finished.

The PCUSA is long past finished. It is a rotting corpse. That this is even on the table for discussion proves this overwhelmingly.

35 posted on 03/06/2011 7:08:19 AM PST by fwdude (Anita Bryant was right.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
There are still faithful Christians in the PCUSA who are working to hold the line against gay ordination.

"Gay" ordination isn't something that just popped up in an otherwise biblical Church body; it is only the logical conclusion to a continuing apostate culture of acceptance of unbiblical beliefs and practices.

By the time a Church denomination gets to the acceptance of homosexuality, a thousand other apostasies have already been swallowed and ingested.

Your individual congregation may be the rare exception, but when you are yoked to a denomination that toys with such abominations, it's time to step back and re-evaluate.

36 posted on 03/06/2011 7:17:18 AM PST by fwdude (Anita Bryant was right.)
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