Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Anger brews over government workers' benefits
AP ^ | March 8, 2011 | GEOFF MULVIHILL

Posted on 03/08/2011 7:56:59 AM PST by Poundstone

When Erin McFarlane looks at public workers, she sees lucrative pension benefits she doesn't ever expect to get. And it makes her mad.

"I don't think that a federal employee or government employee is worth any more than anybody else who does their job and does it well," said the Slinger, Wis., woman. She's been working a couple of bartending jobs since January, when she was laid off from her job at a Harley Davidson plant after almost a decade.

She's not alone in seeing public servants as public enemies in some ways.

It's a case of pension envy.

(Excerpt) Read more at chron.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: benefits; employees; government; pension; unions; wisconsinshowdown

1 posted on 03/08/2011 7:57:05 AM PST by Poundstone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Poundstone

Interesting. This article is focused on the longstanding problem of state retirees’ pension underfunding, although the first quote is from a citizen who confuses pensions of state and federal retirees. The two types of pensions couldn’t be more different. Unlike state pensions, federal pensions are fundable by the federal government — which, if necessary, can fulfill its obligations by simply printing more money. States can’t do that; they either have to raise taxes or cut spending in other areas to satisfy their obligations.

It’s an important distinction with real ramifications.


2 posted on 03/08/2011 7:59:54 AM PST by Poundstone (A recent Federal retiree and proud of it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Poundstone

I can’t imagine why anyone would have taken a govt job 10 years ago when they could have had steady work at the Harley plant

My how times have changed


3 posted on 03/08/2011 8:00:15 AM PST by silverleaf (All that is necessary for evil to succeed, is that good men do nothing)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Poundstone

Federal or State it doesn’t matter. 90% of them are parasitic leeches on the body politic.


4 posted on 03/08/2011 8:01:12 AM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Poundstone
It’s an important distinction with real ramifications.

I totally agree.

My fear is that Cali, Ill, and NY will eventually be allowed to issue bonds with a FedGov guarantee.

5 posted on 03/08/2011 8:02:31 AM PST by nascarnation
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Poundstone
"Pension Envy." So nice a term. Where does it come from? From the a union biggie:
Hetty Rosenstein, the NJ director of the Communications Workers of America, which represents New Jersey government workers says gripes about her members' pensions are misplaced.

"There's pension envy because people who are working in the private sector, they're being denied pensions," she said.

We make our own pensions, dear Hetty, if we can, from the meager scraps we have left AFTER PAYING YOURS. That's not exactly "envy" now is it?

Not at all! It is OUTRAGE.

6 posted on 03/08/2011 8:05:27 AM PST by bvw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Poundstone

If you think these pensions are bad you should know what the ‘poor’ receive each month. One person whose grandaughter lives with her gets $2,000 a MONTH government check, another gets a ‘crazy check’ from the government because he can’t behave in class.

It makes me want to puke!

There is no telling what the taxpayers are paying for because the politicians aren’t being honest about it!

It’s time to crack down on ALL of the corruption and GOVERNMENT CHECKS to people who are just gaming the system (some for generations)!


7 posted on 03/08/2011 8:06:14 AM PST by kcvl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Poundstone

Here’s fun fact to know and tell: The president of US is the higest paid federal employee.

Who comes in second? And what is the amount of his/her annual salary?


8 posted on 03/08/2011 8:07:17 AM PST by RexBeach (There is no such thing as a good tax.- Winston Churchill)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bvw
they're being denied pensions,"

These are the key words. Social injustice and oppression of the non-government working class. The Federal government must step in and MANDATE all private employers to immediately issue non-funded pension to all workers to make society fair... grab your ankles, Mr. Businessman...

9 posted on 03/08/2011 8:13:23 AM PST by April Lexington (Study the Constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Poundstone
It’s an important distinction with real ramifications.

If the federal government simply meets it's obligations by printing more money, what's the difference between doing that, and devalueing the worth of your own savings through inflation, and taxing you outright to pay for it?

Either way they're making you poorer so they can be richer.

10 posted on 03/08/2011 8:13:45 AM PST by tacticalogic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: silverleaf
Well Harley has union scum turning out shoddy products with antiquated technology targeted for the senior market.
11 posted on 03/08/2011 8:15:59 AM PST by Frantzie (HD TV - Total Brain-washing now in High Def. 3-D Coming soon)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: April Lexington

The AP - what do you expect. A news co-op created by the elites to “shape” opinions.


12 posted on 03/08/2011 8:20:46 AM PST by Frantzie (HD TV - Total Brain-washing now in High Def. 3-D Coming soon)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: April Lexington

Those are key words, but the most key is the one. “Envy.” It is a mocker’s word, one that tears down good things in the name of a misplaced sense of fairness, in context it is a mock and a dare. She’s foments discord with it, a discord that makes all poorer.

Let public employees and elected officials be paid the regular market wage of their place and time, and not get benefits from the employer at all, for with their wages they can each buy benefits as we all must do. When they are protected and insulated from the affairs of normal private sector people they come to indulge in daily oppressions of us through burdening regulations and fees which they are free off.


13 posted on 03/08/2011 8:29:55 AM PST by bvw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Poundstone

Going to get heat on this but you can’t count on anyone for a pension,we are on our own.Some manage to win some don’t a plan is all we have to work with.


14 posted on 03/08/2011 8:47:23 AM PST by Vaduz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bvw

Amerika’s nomenklatura

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=528809

it’s becoming increasingly clear that America is now run by a new, privileged class of bureaucrats.

For those who remember the old Soviet Union, it was a grim place — at least for average citizens. But not so for those in government. Contrary to the official ideals of equality and a classless society that the ruling communist regime espoused, the USSR created a privileged class of party members inside government — the nomenklatura.

This semipermanent bureaucracy earned higher incomes, got better health care, ate better food and had greater job security than average Russians, the much-despised proletarians. Today, our bloated federal government seems, in significant ways, to be creating this same dynamic.


15 posted on 03/08/2011 9:03:43 AM PST by WOBBLY BOB ( "I don't want the majority if we don't stand for something"- Jim Demint)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Poundstone

as unflattering a trait as envy is, the GOP had better start getting a whole lot louder on this point if they expect to win on this issue.


16 posted on 03/08/2011 9:08:33 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bvw
I don't “envy” my employees, I give them instructions on what I expect from them, and fire the ones that are confused about who signs their paycheck!
17 posted on 03/08/2011 9:49:58 AM PST by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Poundstone

I have no problem with collective bargaining providing it’s not on the back of the tax-payer. Only assholes would insist otherwise.


18 posted on 03/08/2011 9:56:40 AM PST by Gene Eric (*** Jesus ***)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Beagle8U

True, they are our employees! What an attitude problem they have ...


19 posted on 03/08/2011 10:16:01 AM PST by bvw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Gene Eric

I have a problem with collective bargaining. Closed-shop unions are a problem.


20 posted on 03/08/2011 10:19:05 AM PST by bvw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Poundstone
Interesting. This article is focused on the longstanding problem of state retirees’ pension underfunding, although the first quote is from a citizen who confuses pensions of state and federal retirees. The two types of pensions couldn’t be more different. Unlike state pensions, federal pensions are fundable by the federal government — which, if necessary, can fulfill its obligations by simply printing more money. States can’t do that; they either have to raise taxes or cut spending in other areas to satisfy their obligations. It’s an important distinction with real ramifications.

It is an important distinction.

Yes, all debt (Federal and State) is killing our country and economy, but here is the significant difference between the two:

1. State debt is caused primarily by the excessive cost of funding public employee union members (teachers, state workers) salaries, health care and pensions.This has caused states to increase taxes (property, sales, personal property, etc) in that state, which is killing local residents.

2. The primary cause of Federal deficits is entitlements (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and all other welfare - SNAP Food Stamps, EBT cash transfers, Section 8 housing, unemployment benefits, etc).

That is one helluva difference. Federal salaries and pensions are a drop in the massive debt bucket. Slashing them might make people feel good, but it won't do a damn thing to stop the bleeding.

The states are an entirely different story. NJ, NY, IL, and CA are all on the precipice of doom because of pensions, salaries, and health benefits to workers. Period. The Federal government is broke because of entitlements.

21 posted on 03/08/2011 10:30:59 AM PST by SkyPilot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Poundstone

The states can have their own currency! So can all banks in the US, (they once did!) and even people. They just can’t counterfeit US currency. And, the Constitution says that a state’s money would have to be gold or silver coin, although if it were paper actually BACKED by real gold or silver, the Courts might approve that.


22 posted on 03/08/2011 11:08:24 AM PST by 2harddrive
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: RexBeach

“Who comes in second? And what is the amount of his/her annual salary?”

Chief Justice of the Supremes?


23 posted on 03/08/2011 11:10:09 AM PST by 2harddrive
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: 2harddrive

Not even close...but he is in the top 10.

Care to try again?


24 posted on 03/08/2011 11:14:59 AM PST by RexBeach (There is no such thing as a good tax.- Winston Churchill)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: WOBBLY BOB

Yes, nail meets hammer, you are exactly RIGHT!

” Contrary to the official ideals of equality and a classless society that the ruling communist regime espoused, the USSR created a privileged class of party members inside government ...”

Basically, we are very close to that, and heading closer.

The US has become the United Commie Stats of America, UCSA!!
Or whatever acronym you chose.

Equal Protection before the law, and in this societies structure has been turned on its head.

From pensions, to Deathcare, to taxes, they exempt themselves while WE PAY.

THIS IS NOT AMERICA ANYMORE!!!!

/rant off


25 posted on 03/08/2011 11:18:51 AM PST by TruthConquers ( Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: 2harddrive

Utah has just passed a law doing just that.

I saw it here yesterday.


26 posted on 03/08/2011 11:20:57 AM PST by TruthConquers ( Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Poundstone
Late at night, when your’re sleepin’, pension envy comes a creepin’.
27 posted on 03/08/2011 11:24:29 AM PST by JPG (May the WI GOP stay united and strong.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Poundstone

Bartender? Sounds like she’s just blaming everybody else for the fact that she failed to learn the skills to get a better job.


28 posted on 03/08/2011 11:35:15 AM PST by cycleoflife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SkyPilot

Well said, SkyPilot. Bravo.


29 posted on 03/08/2011 11:56:07 AM PST by Poundstone (A recent Federal retiree and proud of it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: RexBeach

I am going to guess the Head Football Coach at West Point Academy?


30 posted on 03/08/2011 12:09:20 PM PST by PushinTin (NEVER, argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Poundstone

Leftists are nothing but a bunch of spoiled worthless brats who don’t even do their jobs well. They insult the very people who pay their salaries.

If these Wisconsin thugs get their way one last time then America is destroyed forever. We let them shove us around for too long.


31 posted on 03/08/2011 12:28:19 PM PST by Soothesayer (smallpox is not a person)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TruthConquers

Spasmodic silliness. Who will use gold to pay their debts when the recipient must accept dollars. The Utah legislature apparently has never heard of “Gresham’s Law”.


32 posted on 03/08/2011 12:36:18 PM PST by arrogantsob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: kcvl

$2000 a month could have been somebody’s LIFE! That’s almost enough to pay for life support for some child in some hospital and these selfish useless prima donnas are getting it simply for being useless lazy idiots. I know a poor hispanic family in Hartford, CT who would have been eternally grateful if the government spent even so much as a single payment of that $2000 for their child’s medical treatment. Meanwhile, some spoiled punk is getting it and is not only UNGRATEFUL but harbors a burning hatred towards its benefactors.

Imagine if we took that 15+ trillion in debt and put it towards the advancement of science and humanity! We’d be disease free and living on ****ing Mars!

These leftists parasites need to be hunted down and made extremely uncomfortable. The next leftist I meet will be beaten to a bloody pulp and left to die. These are NOT our fellow citizens. They are criminals of the worst order and need to be treated as they deserve to be treated.


33 posted on 03/08/2011 12:38:50 PM PST by Soothesayer (smallpox is not a person)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: arrogantsob

Yes, arrogantSOB, who will use gold?

Maybe nobody, maybe lots of somebodies, when the dollar dies, that is.

Gresham’s Law, well, has the Bernank heard of it either?
How many trillions have been created since Ozombie?
Yes, silly gold. Been money a lot longer than the fiat $US dollar, hasn’t it?

very silly indeed, ha.


34 posted on 03/08/2011 12:58:36 PM PST by TruthConquers ( Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: TruthConquers

This is stuff that has been known since the 16th century when there was actually a sort of gold standard.

No one will use gold in Utah because it is extremely inconvenient, difficult to make change for and varies in value day by day. It would be a nightmare.

What would establish the value of the day? CNN, Fox News, Blomberg, the CBOE? It is laughable to see the legislature wasting its time on such an issue.

It is the ignorant pandering to the more ignorant something unfortunately not confined to the Left.

If the dollar declines precipitously then the use of gold will become even LESS likely since its value would be constantly increasing. So no intelligent person would willing spend an appreciating asset when there is a depreciating one to use. Bad money drives out good.


35 posted on 03/08/2011 6:30:52 PM PST by arrogantsob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Soothesayer

What world are you living in 2Gs won’t keep someone on life support for a week much less a month probably not even a DAY?

Ignorance and insanity is a dangerous combination.


36 posted on 03/08/2011 6:33:41 PM PST by arrogantsob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: arrogantsob

I guess the dollar doesn’t change day by day, eh?

Or is it so much better to have savers destroyed by the inflation so that what a dollar was worth when it was saved, is no where close to the worth it will have when it is spent. Just wonderful for the elders!!!

blah, barf.


37 posted on 03/08/2011 7:49:23 PM PST by TruthConquers ( Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Poundstone

bttt


38 posted on 03/08/2011 7:53:11 PM PST by GOPJ (http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php - It's only uncivil when someone on the right does it.- Laz)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TruthConquers

Changes in the dollar/foreign exchange rate are gradual and more in tenth of cents or cents per day so it is imperceptible and relevant in the short run only wrt exporters and importers since foreign exchange is not legal tender within the US. Whereas gold would be in Utah.

What would happen would be that gold would be drained out of Utah by speculators from elsewhere since gold/dollars would be convertible.

Since the vast majority of wealth in the US is in a small number of hands(say 10% owns 70% of the wealth or more) its depreciation is not as significant for the rest of the population as would be a credit freeze or contraction which gold would ensure. Moving to the gold standard would collapse the economy which has far greater consequences politically than slow inflation. In particular it would mean Class Warfare on a scale not seen since the 30s and the takeover of the Democrats for the next 20 years.

Don’t you know anything about economics or economic history? It was the renewal of the gold standard by the British in the twenties which brought it the depression several years earlier than in the US. Roosevelt recognized eventually that getting off the gold standard was the first step toward reigniting the economy after the depression spread to this country.

Without doing that there was no way of exporting enough to help since by doing so ignited trade wars because it drained specie from the importing countries which weakened their economies. With floating exchange rates this does not happen.


39 posted on 03/08/2011 9:02:35 PM PST by arrogantsob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: arrogantsob

You and the anti gold bugs are all the same.

Gas goes up like it does BECAUSE THE DOLLAR IS GOING DOWN, for now at least. There might get one more bounce from a market crash, but how many times can they get away with doing that?

We are in danger because a currency crisis does not result in “slow” inflation, it is a currency event that creates *hyper* inflation.

Look, I don’t like what is going on, and I don’t trust
Fiscal Moron Ben. He IS destroying the dollar. How much more do you think the rest of the world is going to put up with his deceit? Forever? THAT is historically unrealistic.

The Depression here was caused by A CREDIT BUBBLE!!!
Just like NOW, it is a contraction CASUED by the bubbles blown by Greenspan.

I despise the disingenous arguments that only protect the TBTF banks. If you want to defend those frauds, have at it.

BARF


40 posted on 03/09/2011 8:08:52 AM PST by TruthConquers ( Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: arrogantsob

It depends. 2Gs is enough for an O2 nasal cannula if nothing else. I use “life support” in the generic sense because my comment wasn’t supposed to be about medicine. It was just an example of how the system runs under the leftist vermin.

Insanity? Yea I’m a little bit nuts but “sane” people have utterly failed to stop the leftists. They haven’t even made a dent in their progress. Crazies made this country and only crazies can save it.


41 posted on 03/09/2011 10:17:51 AM PST by Soothesayer (smallpox is not a person)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Soothesayer

There have rarely been saner people than Washington, Adams, Hamilton and Madison. Insanity should be left to the Leftists.


42 posted on 03/09/2011 11:00:57 AM PST by arrogantsob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: TruthConquers

The fluctuations in the value of the dollar has nothing to do with the price of gas. If the dollar changes its value by 1% it is a big daily move meanwhile we are looking at 30 to 100% increases in the value of oil. Since you claim a concern for “Truth” you should be aware that oil is priced in dollars which insults us to some extent.

There has NEVER been a hyper-inflation in the United States and very few in developed nations in all of history. When real estate prices are collapsed there is no chance of one now.

I am not concerned about your lack of trust in Bennie Boy but you need to know what you are talking about. That does not mean that you rely on whacky websites for explanations about the Gold standard and the cause of the Depression but that you actually study REAL history.

This also means that if you are concerned about the Fed you need to study its history and how it functions. One little fact is that the Fed actually turns over its profits to the federal government. In other words it functions as an income earning asset of the American people.


43 posted on 03/09/2011 11:10:36 AM PST by arrogantsob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: TruthConquers

Correction I meant to say “insulates” not “insults” LoL.

And who is “they”? Who is defending TBTF banks? People who speak the truth are only doing that.


44 posted on 03/09/2011 11:15:24 AM PST by arrogantsob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: arrogantsob

“Who is defending TBTF banks?
People who speak the truth are only doing that.”

Oh REALLY? hahahahahahahaaha!!!!!

NO bias there, riiighhhttt. /s

And for the dollar and gas, it is OIL that is CURRENTLY fluctuating. So the gas fluctuates ALONG WITH THE DOLLAR.

But enough of that. You types are all the same, what is up with that?

Accuse of something not posted, state SOME facts but not ALL. Sounds like trollish disruption to me.

AND then telling me I need to go an study... I don’t know enough, well, buddy. I’m a homeschooler, I have heard those arguments before. Not impressed at all.

Drop the arrogance, arrogantSOB, quit posting things about my post I didn’t say.


45 posted on 03/09/2011 12:14:24 PM PST by TruthConquers ( Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: TruthConquers

It is clear that your “homeschooling” has not included any significant economics texts but that is not much different than the schools. Economics is one of those things which takes years of hard study and incorporates knowledge of history, advanced math, logic and other social sciences. Hanging out on the internet is NOT “schooling” schooling is hacking your way through extremely difficult texts whether you like what they are saying or not.

Here are some basic economics texts which you need to go through before you are ready to discuss such issues with adults: The Wealth of Nations -Adam Smith, On the Principles of Political Economics and Taxation -David Ricardo and even Das Kapital -Marx. Samuelson’s text is useful as well. Friedman’s Monetary History of the United States and Keynes’ General Theory of Unemployment, Interest and Money.

I apologize for not being clear wrt the dollar and oil. AT THIS TIME the price of dollar is not being overly affected by inflation of the dollar it has been driven up primarily by the increased risk in the world markets not inflation. That could change and you are right to be concerned about that however, it isn’t happening right now.

You have posted a lot of garbage which I have corrected point by point and added a lot more information which should help you get a grasp on things but you just lose your temper and ignore anything significant to the issue.

When you get older you will understand that being corrected is a good thing and not something you should take personally.


46 posted on 03/09/2011 6:56:30 PM PST by arrogantsob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: TruthConquers

“Utah has just passed a law doing just that.

I saw it here yesterday”

Cool! GO, Utah!


47 posted on 03/09/2011 9:30:41 PM PST by 2harddrive
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: arrogantsob

It is clear that my reference about homeschooling went right over your head. Now, read carefully, you tend to make assumptions based on your own bias.

Homeschoolers were told endlessly about how we can’t teach our own children because we didn’t study for, don’t have a credential, and we weren’t smart enough to do it. Today, a majority of the public sees that we are right. In fact, those silly union thugs in Wisconsin are proving our point. Public schools are nothing but government indoctrination centers.

So, this correlates to your assumption that I need to read six books, and you didn’t even mention von Mises or Hayek, by the way. Your assertion that I need to read six books that you approve of before I can make comments about economics, which isn’t a science, is as uninformed as the public school teachers about teaching.

I think you fail to understand what this site is about.
People post threads to news or interest story’s and comment on them. No fancy degree required. No multiple letters after our names. It keeps the educated idiots to a minimum.

You have posted a lot of garbage which I have refuted and added a lot more information which should help you get a grasp on things. You, on the other hand, ignore anything significant to the issue.

When you get older you will understand that being corrected is a good thing and not something you should take personally.

Besides, I am old enough to be a grandma, silly.

You and your assumption can take a flying leap, arrogantSOB.
Well named you are.


48 posted on 03/10/2011 10:38:06 AM PST by TruthConquers ( Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: TruthConquers
If the rest of your teaching is as slip shod and clueless as your economics then who ever is the recipient of it will be at a severe disadvantage. While economics is not a "science" in the sense that physics is wherein you can run controlled experiments it does take a scientific approach to understanding what has and is happening. Through econometric studies it does propose a hypothesis and subject it to statistical analysis and testing. Just to understand the advanced mathematics involved in that requires years of difficult study in graduate schools.

I could have listed a bunch of other economics books but preferred not to overwhelm (or even further infuriate you) you since I am sure you have read NONE of them nor Hayek or Von Mises either as far as that goes. Those listed are not books I "approve" of but are those which represent how the science of economics has come to be. The point is to actually UNDERSTAND the issues being discussed rather than rely on various and sundry crackpots and outliers who are not taken seriously by anyone knowledgeable in the subject.

While I have not been discussing education in general it is obvious that you cannot teach subjects which you are not expert in. You cannot teach Adv. Chemistry, Calculus or Physics or statistics or a foreign language nor can anyone else who is homeschooling who has not become expert in such things. The idea that I could teach German would be laughable. All those courses are available at the better public and private schools. Now I will grant you that you can maybe teach as well and as thoroughly as a poor teacher in a poor school. But a good teacher in a good school? Not a chance. Outside of inflammatory and mostly false rhetoric what can you contribute? Public schools are where members of our military forces were OVERWHELMINGLY trained so they do have millions of success stories every year. My elder son was one though he hated high school. He is now a nuclear reactor operator having been trained in a six year Navy stint on nuclear submarines. My younger went to a private school (with he also hated) and is also successful. Nor are the public schools "indoctrination" centers of the government. Public schools are controlled by LOCAL people often through LOCALLY elected school boards. This one element where the PEOPLE actually have the most control over political teaching IF they chose to use it or know what to do which they don't. Not that it matters much if they are indoctrination centers since kids generally don't believe what they are being taught anyway. Funny but your style of writing and the rhetoric you use are indicative of those of teenagers not a mature person. People who actually KNOW something are often considered arrogant so I have no concern as regards that.

49 posted on 03/10/2011 11:25:01 AM PST by arrogantsob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: TruthConquers

BTW I would be willing to bet that the people on FR have MORE education and MORE advanced degrees than the general population. It is not filled with anti-intellectual Know Nothings as you claim.


50 posted on 03/10/2011 11:28:09 AM PST by arrogantsob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson