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Why The Rush To War In Libya? (Tongue firmly in cheek)
Multiple including The Cable,Yahoo News, and Salon ^ | 3-18-11 | Link filled vanity

Posted on 03/18/2011 8:16:04 AM PDT by icwhatudo

I don't understand why our war criminal president, fresh off of massacring 38 people in Pakistan, is in such a hurry to kill more people in Libya. Why don't we give sanctions more time to work? Why aren't we trying to get UN inspectors to go in and assess the situation?

Maybe he is upset that his policy of assassinating US citizens without a trial has not produced as many dead bodies as he planned. Or maybe he doesn't think tripling the number of dead US soldiers in Afghanistan (From 155 under Bush in 2008 to 499 under Obama in 2010) is not enough sacrifice for our military.

Will prisoners captured in Libya be sent to the still open GITMO where Obama has decided to restart military trials?

Will they face torture like Obamas treatment of PFC Manning?

All we are saying is give peace a chance!

No blood for oil!

(Excerpt) Read more at thecable.foreignpolicy.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: libya; sarcasm

1 posted on 03/18/2011 8:16:11 AM PDT by icwhatudo
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To: icwhatudo

It seems Obama ALWAYS supports SHIA ISLAM???


2 posted on 03/18/2011 8:18:45 AM PDT by WellyP
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To: icwhatudo

note-Excerpt link goes to “The Cable” article about Obama’s plan to quickly attack Libya.


3 posted on 03/18/2011 8:19:05 AM PDT by icwhatudo ("laws requiring compulsory abortion could be sustained under the constitution"-Obama official)
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To: icwhatudo

It’s because we need to replace a leader that hasn’t done anything to us in decades, with one that will HATE US and do who knows what.

Standard Operating Procedure with this bunch.


4 posted on 03/18/2011 8:23:22 AM PDT by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
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To: WellyP

There are no Shia’s in Libya. It is nearly 100% Sunni.


5 posted on 03/18/2011 8:23:54 AM PDT by Cronos ("They object to tradition saying that they themselves are wiser than the apostles" - Ire.III.2.2)
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To: icwhatudo

Hopefully Obama recognizes that getting into a third war with a couple unfinished, an economy of the verge of collapse from debt and unemployment, mounting obligations to a growing China and a military drained by causalities as world policeman, would put the USA in a downward spiral toward dwelling in the third world along with England who lived the same life. FUBAR.


6 posted on 03/18/2011 8:30:10 AM PDT by ex-snook ("Above all things, truth beareth away the victory")
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To: Cronos

That’s an important clarification Cronos. But it is odd the UN called for NO foreign boots on the ground when clearly Gaddafi has many foreign troops fighting on the ground.


7 posted on 03/18/2011 8:33:46 AM PDT by caww
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To: icwhatudo
...No blood for oil!...

Gaddafi didn't have anything to do with 9/11!

8 posted on 03/18/2011 8:37:38 AM PDT by FReepaholic (Pray for Japan.)
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To: icwhatudo
[ All we are saying is give peace a chance! No blood for oil! ]

UNLESS its democrat oil...

9 posted on 03/18/2011 8:42:08 AM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: ex-snook
...would put the USA in a downward spiral toward dwelling in the third world along with England who lived the same life.

Zer0's daddy, (that Doo Wop sensation Obama Mau Mau) hated the Brits. Maybe Zer0 dreams of his father so much he is taking America exactly where he wants it to go.

10 posted on 03/18/2011 8:42:08 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Sarah and the Conservatives will rock your world.)
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To: Cronos

The rebels are at least 50% SHIA. Libya has a minority Shia population supported by IRAN!


11 posted on 03/18/2011 8:42:20 AM PDT by WellyP
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To: FReepaholic
Gaddafi didn't have anything to do with 9/11!

Obama lied, people died.

12 posted on 03/18/2011 8:44:30 AM PDT by NeoCaveman (Hu's your daddy)
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To: NeoCaveman

Where is the WMD?

Libya did not attack us-this is a pre-emptive strike!!!

(Someone needs to photoshop that code pink lady with the bloody hands and replace Condi with Obama)


13 posted on 03/18/2011 9:14:21 AM PDT by icwhatudo ("laws requiring compulsory abortion could be sustained under the constitution"-Obama official)
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To: icwhatudo

Democrat bombs have peace and love baked right into them!


14 posted on 03/18/2011 9:22:25 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: WellyP
It seems Obama ALWAYS supports SHIA ISLAM???

That boy better get his mahnd raht, or his Sunni benefactors in Riyadh are gonna slap the taste out of his mouth, next time he goes over there to scrape and bow.

</Strother Martin>

15 posted on 03/18/2011 10:04:12 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: icwhatudo

What happened to ... “NO BLOOD for OIL???”

/sarc


16 posted on 03/18/2011 12:12:34 PM PDT by gwilhelm56 (To anger a Christian, Lie to them. To anger a muslim, tell them the TRUTH!)
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To: caww; WellyP
WellyP: The rebels are at least 50% SHIA. Libya has a minority Shia population supported by IRAN!

I'm sorry Welly, but that is incorrect. if you check the CIA factbook :https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ly.html, it shows that

Religions:Sunni Muslim 97%, other 3%
and corroborate this with wikipedia
Almost all Libyans are Sunni Muslim. Foreigners contribute very little Christian presence, but there are some churches
And tie it in to This Shia website which says that there are no shia in Libya

you may be mistaking Libya for Bahrain which is 70% Shia or Saudi which has a small percentage of Shia, but Libya does not -- it is a very small country in terms of population -- 6 million and exclusively in tribes.

=======================

Some things we need to remember when thinking about Libya (caveat: I'm not a professional analyst, but I've lived some early years of my life in Bahrain and Lebanon and visited other parts of the ME and I've spent a couple of years in Bahrain in the past decade):

==================================

My statement that we will soon hear Arabs saying that the "Crusader, imperialist, Christian states are attacking an Islamic country" have come true. Both Ghaddafi is saying this and the Arab League is also murmuring it. This will just intensify over time. And yes, they will blame the US for it -- expect terrorrist attacks in retaliation, not necessarily from Ghaddafi but even from his opponents, AlQ for us Westerners getting involved in a Moslem fight

One doesn't have to be brilliant to do this (no matter how much my ego may want to say otherwise :-) but this is plain reality -- for anyone to see who has read any amount of recent history and even more so for anyone who has read history over the past 100 years.

=====================================

In my humble opinion the only scenarios are:

  1. The best outcome, yet this is a fantasty and nearly 0 possibility: the opposition wins, they are highly secular and friends of the West

    /li>

  2. The best scenario in REALITY :-) : Ghaddafi winsish - he still has rebels in Tobruk and he spends much of the rest of this decade fighting them and they fighting him. He then has no time to fight with anyone else and no time to sponsor terrorists as quite frankly he knows the terrorists may turn against him. AlQ is tied down in this fight and the rest of the Moslem world is also tied down here

  3. The worst case scenario: the rebels win and it turns out that they are sponsored by AlQ who use Libya as their base for setting up a Caliphate

  4. Other scenario: The West is bogged down in a war with Ghaddafi and with the rebels (who WILL turn on us)

  5. Libya breaks up -- in any case this was an artificial country created by the Italians in 1911 when they conquered 3 of the Ottoman provinces of Cyrenica,Fazzan and Tripolitana and put them together as Libya. The country is split among tribes and many of these are seeking more integration with their Berber past instead of pretending to be Arabs. This would end up a Balkanised state, but on a much smaller scale -- probably 3-4 provinces and a vast unruled desert land.

17 posted on 03/21/2011 12:49:28 AM PDT by Cronos ("They object to tradition saying that they themselves are wiser than the apostles" - Ire.III.2.2)
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To: Cronos

This deserves a repeat IMO.......

33% (one THIRD) of the population is below 15.

50% (one HALF) is below 25

This is a young, UNDER-educated country.

Ghaddafi has not been like Bahrain or Tunisia or Egypt or Syria and educated his young — they are unable to compete in the modern world, and can only fight.....

..... so this means you have smart people who are aware they are useless. This is a tragedy and yet it means that they are ripe targets for Islamic terrorists to indoctrinate.”.....

Very interesting post Cronos....hopefully more will see and find it equally as interesting. No matter how we look at Libya it is likely not to play out well. The above I posted again as it is clearly revelant in how we might see most of Libya as to their ability to govern themsleves. Doesn’t look good in this respect. Rather like having to “parent” this country and who would want to be up for that task...and able to do so? What an awful mess. No wonder so many foreignors in their country...without them it couldn’t run.

Hopefully As Gates said...this nightmare will be handed over to Uk and France in just days as he indicated the plan was for. The faster we are out of there the better...if indeed we can make a clean break.


18 posted on 03/21/2011 1:18:10 AM PDT by caww
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To: Cronos

Another interesting thought....the Bible says something about the youth rebelling....who’d of thought the Muslim worlds youth!

Further...I am certain the youth in our own country are watching this with interest. Let’s not forgot Obama has tapped into them via his various organizations to “Get out the Vote” etc. We may be sitting on a powder keg here in the USA if we’re not careful. Many are buying into this global, environmentalist, Earth mother, love everybody crap.


19 posted on 03/21/2011 1:23:19 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww

Yes, this is not going to play out well. And, no matter if the US leaves now, no matter if the UK and France leave too — any deaths or anything now happening in Libya will be blamed on “Imperialist Crusade Christian infidels”. Anything and everything will be blamed on the US. Expect a lot more terrorist acts


20 posted on 03/21/2011 1:43:41 AM PDT by Cronos ("They object to tradition saying that they themselves are wiser than the apostles" - Ire.III.2.2)
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To: caww
No wonder so many foreignors in their country...without them it couldn’t run.

And that's true of most Moslem countries (with the exceptions of Iran, Tunisia, Bahrain and Oman to some extent) - the locals are lazy b&$&$ who are basically sanctioned laziness by their religion. In Iran people are well educated and cultured. In Bahrain, the same, but they are not educated enough (there is no engineering college I think in Bahrain and definitely no MBA institute). In Tunisia and Oman they are educated but not as smart as Iranis.

In the rest of the Arab world, the executives in the companies are all Western or Indian expats. The shopkeepers are all Indians, the shop-assistants, sailors etc. are Filipinos. The labourers are Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, etc. They don't hire many blacks as the Arabs are pretty racist.

The problem is Islam basically glorifies becoming Arabi -- and becoming Nejd Arab at that -- the lazy bedouins who are unhygienic, uncultured slobs. They ruined civilisations like the high cultures in Yemen (queen of Sheba and later Ethiopian), SYria, Egypta etc. -- the Shia came up with a way to get converts in Zoroastrian Iran by accomodating local customs (as the Iranis are justifiably proud of their ancient civilisation). But, as a country becomes more "Arab", the people are dumbed down. This ties in to the marriage between cousins etc. leading to genetic diseases and madness.

21 posted on 03/21/2011 1:50:18 AM PDT by Cronos ("They object to tradition saying that they themselves are wiser than the apostles" - Ire.III.2.2)
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To: caww
hmmm... interesting point. Yet many "yuths" are disillusioned with Obambi.

Will the American young revolt? I don't think so, purely because they are too much into Lady Gaga (I think she's a bigger threat to morals than anything else we have right now) and mooching around. Also their numbers are lower -- 20% of the US is below 15, maybe 33% below 25 (not sure of the latter number -- for the former, check https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/gos/us.html)

I have theories of how kids should be raised but since we haven't had kids yet, I am in no position to give advice to others. I've seen well behaved kids, but the common point is that the family is very religious and has no television. Homeschooling etc. are good enough, but even if you send your kid to public school and yet cut off the outside influences at home (no TV! and control over the internet, no video games -- go out and play etc.), the kids turn out pretty good, IMHO.

22 posted on 03/21/2011 1:56:59 AM PDT by Cronos ("They object to tradition saying that they themselves are wiser than the apostles" - Ire.III.2.2)
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To: Cronos

Short of God intervening there I see no good end...perhaps He has his appointed people to go in...time will surely tell.

Later Cronos....have to catch some winks before work...


23 posted on 03/21/2011 2:10:06 AM PDT by caww
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To: Cronos

Look what I found this morning in the times..referring to Kids in wealthier countries.....references what i have fears of about our kids rising up....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/21/opinion/21klein.html?amp


24 posted on 03/21/2011 5:06:27 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww
Caww, I don't understand them. I'm 32 and fall just about in this bracket. A lot of the "frustrated young people" are arts majors or those who studied history of arts or political science and are now wondering why they are unemployed. I busted my hump studying engineering for years and then working my butt off at my first job (incidently I got that when I joined FR!) and proving myself and saving at every chance I could get.

I know folks who are looking for jobs but a lot were partying during college times or went for the easy or unmarketable skills (a lot, not all -- so not a generalization).

Also, now I live in Europe and I see the way things are among these youths -- they are clubbing fanatics and many really believe they are entitled to the good life without working for it.

25 posted on 03/21/2011 7:19:28 AM PDT by Cronos (Palin+Jindal: 2012)
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To: caww
Interesting post --> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2692113/posts

how can we get the US out of this war with Libya? By fighting Ghaddafi we are supporting Islamists

26 posted on 03/21/2011 7:53:49 AM PDT by Cronos (Palin+Jindal: 2012)
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To: Cronos
many really believe they are entitled to the good life without working for it.

That's here in the US as well Cronos...and rampid unfortunately. I saw a gal today who couldn't wait to "SPEND" her income tax check....a waitress at a local family food rest. She bought five pieces of Jewelry to the tune of $500! The entitlement attitude was in full swing. But I couldn't help thinking that is pretty much the mindset of many adults here as well as the youth. It must be fascinating living in Europe...does your work require you move from time to time? I was a field sales rep for several years and loved having control of my time. The hardest part of work now is punching a timeclock...so not use to that!

27 posted on 03/21/2011 10:19:19 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww
I saw a gal today who couldn't wait to "SPEND" her income tax check....a waitress at a local family food rest. She bought five pieces of Jewelry to the tune of $500!

This culture of "gimme gimme, gimme" can only lead to bad things. Why not put that $500 down towards the mortgage? Kids education? College bills? Even a fixed deposit?

Maybe people are not taught that waiting for something is better? Take hardships now but you will really value something later. There was a test I read where a bunch of 5 year olds were given a question: you can eat 1 chocolate now, or if you wait for 3 hours you will get 3 chocolates.

Most couldn't wait. The ones who waited were followed by the sociolists for the next 20 years and it was found out that these kids were better at handling their money. No rocket science that. And yet, this attitude can be trained.

There is a family here in Warsaw that I admire a lot -- the father was studying to be a priest but left it before being ordained and came back to Warsaw from Italy. He was not trained for anything besides knowing Italian and wonders -- he got a job in a steel factory here translating as the factory had just got taken over by Italians.

Then he studied and learnt and now he's a line manager.

The wife gave up her studies to become a house wife as both are very traditional Catholics -- they belong to a community of Catholics that are called Nowa Catechumenates. Very, very strict and religious and sticking to the doctrine.

And they have 4 kids with a fifth on the way. The kids are a wonder -- when we brought chocolates for them, they did not grab it and start eating. They shyly accepted it and gave it to their mother who kept them away for after dinner. After dinner, she gave them just a few blocks and kept the rest aside for another time.

They have, of their own accord refused colas when they come to our house.

And, recently the eldest boy (14) came back angry from school. The teacher had asked what would be the happiest thing for each kid and he said "to be in heaven" -- but the teacher couldn't understand this -- she thought it should be getting a new dress or going on a trip or something.

And yet they are normal, healthy, rambunctious kids who like to run and play and shout (they have no TV in the house which I think is a very key point along with the mom staying at home, parents taking active interest in the children and giving them a sound religious grounding)

28 posted on 03/22/2011 2:06:38 AM PDT by Cronos (Palin+Jindal: 2012)
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To: caww
It is fascinating living in Eastern Europe. Well, I'm from Delaware but when I was a pre-teen up until my early teens my parents moved between Bahrain and Oman and Australia before coming back to Bear. Then, post engineering I moved for studies and then work to the UK where I lived on and off for 5 years -- the "off" was in Belgium, so I had a lot of time to visit Western Europe and north Africa (not libya -- my regret, I always wanted to visit Leptis Magna). Wore out the pages of my passport with stamps :-P

Then moved to another company and was shuffled between New York, Houston, Philly and then to Bahrain, india, hong kong. That was tiring -- I remember having a month in which I flew 24 hours from Bombay to New York for a 3 day meeting, then back, and two days later to hong kong, then to bangalore and bahrain. My body clock is just recovering!

Met the princess (my wife) in the UK and two years ago we got married in Warsaw. She tried living in the hotter climates (Bombay/Bahrain) but couldn't take it, so I quite my job and we moved to Warsaw. Now we're based permanently here, residence permit and all. Yes, a few trips to Prague, Riga, Sofia, Germany, Austria etc. but these are shorter, not months at a time. As we start a family I don't intend spending more time on the travelling -- we've saved and invested a lot and kids are more important than material things.

29 posted on 03/22/2011 2:15:12 AM PDT by Cronos (Palin+Jindal: 2012)
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To: Cronos
Nice you've had these opportunities to reside and visit these countries. I have yet to be overseas and certainly believe that may not happen....but am pleased to visit them via the Internet..though certainly a far cry from being there. I do enjoy hearing other peoples experiences in other countries about their cultures and lifestyles etc.

One interesting conversation was from a woman who travels throughout hot bed areas. In her opinion the west is mistaken to think all countries should become westernized or democratic. Her viewpoint is many countries do well without this, having their own governance and traditions the people themselves are content with. Many place far more value on their relationships then modern convienances or governances no matter how that lifestyle may look to a western.

Another spoke of the Chinese saying they are brutal in business dealings, hard dealers and must always come out on top of any deal or they simply don't deal.

30 posted on 03/22/2011 9:55:48 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww
Well, I don't like the term "Westernised" -- right now it means "over-sexed, gay-accepting sitcom culture".

Each real culture deserves a place of its own. American culture <> Westernised culture IMHO.

Just as each state should have its own culture not obliterated by TV-culture, so too for other countries. Democracy is another question -- a pure democracy only works in a homogenous land. In a diverse land like the US or India, republicanism works better and more devolution of power.

A pure-play democracy in AFrica or the Middle East is chaos as tribes or clans still hold sway and people will vote according to identity. A dictatorship is not the option, definitely, but it is better than a corrupt democracy (you have one robber who knows he's going to be around for some time so he would prefer to stick around and let the country grow so that his money grows, while a corrupt democracy has a series of these robbers who have no interest in letting the country grow as they have no time and want to loot NOW). A benevolent, constitutional monarchy is best -- and that is what Bahrain was headed for, but the people want too much, too quickly (as would you or I in their situation).

Also your friend is correct -- relationships matter throughout Asia, the Middle EAst, Eastern Europe etc. -- family is important. You do not abandon the old to old age homes, you help out cousins, aunts etc who are down on their luck -- for years if need be. Modern conveniences are, quite frankly, over-rated. Why do we need the latest Ipad2? I can't quite fathom standing in queue from 5 am for it, no matter how good it is -- it's not worth so much of my time. It may be a good product, but my basic necessities are God, family and food! Why do we need a fancy car? I had a couple of cars, and two motorbikes at the same time in DE and then in the UK, but now I use public transport as I want to pay off my housing loan as soon as possible -- and you know what? I don't miss them at all.

For Lent we decided to give a few of our favorite/best clothes (not the old ones we didn't want) to charity and you know what -- we don't really miss them! We also increased our days at the soup kitchen -- ok, it means we have to get up early on the weekends, and the "clients" are grumbling, but it's still worth it. And we're not doing anything special (I know folks who do much, much more) -- to forego the holiday this year and give the money to Caritas Japan sounds like a big deal, but what exactly do we get by going on an expensive holiday that we can't do on a bicycle ride around the country staying at small noclegi (bed and breakfasts)? I really think a lot of our fellow Americans should spend a couple of months helping out in India among the poorest of the poor and realise how so much of what we think is necessary, really isn't. What is more important: a washing machine or running water? What is more important: food or a fridge?

there are 3 charities that I got to like:

  1. This one is a case of a micro-lending bank, run by some christians in india who charge only the same interest as a normal bank (10%), not the 40% professional micro-banks charge, so they run a loss. But they have a higher pay-back rating than normal banks! The poor are a lot more trust-worthy! And the amounts needed to bring people out of poverty is so pitifully little it shames us -- to enable a widow to earn money to feed her kids, you buy her a sewing machine that costs $300. She can't afford that, she makes $1 a day and to borrow from the money-lender will hit her with a 20% interest PER MONTH or PER DAY making her a debt-slave.

  2. Aashray: this takes care of kids of aids victims, it schools them and ensures that the family takes care of the children. Two children we taught and now support are children of laborers who have been uneducated for generations, but whose parents really love them. You know how much it costs to educate them in English (the language to get ahead in India) for their entire school life and give them one square meal a day -- in a good school? it costs $2,000 per child. That's it. How much does a 47" flat screen TV cost?

  3. Mother Teresa's roses. This has a very interesting idea -- in the slums in India and around the world, it basically offers facilities to have a hot bath with soap, shampoo etc. -- sounds like nothing and we take having a bath for granted. But many people can't take this -- they sleep on the streets, they have only rags to wear and the only place they can get (dirty) water is at a pipeline leaking water or in a dirty path of water. The smiles on their face when they have a bath is unbelievable. The confidence they get by being clean, by as they say "feeling human again" (lagta hai jaise vapas aadmi ho gaya) put me to shame

Besides this of course, I love languages (mostly Indo-European -- I forget most of my arabic except the la-illaha, you hear too much of it to forget it!)

31 posted on 03/23/2011 1:11:55 AM PDT by Cronos (Palin+Jindal: 2012)
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To: caww

If we just take our normal day to day activities in the US and see how we can save for helping our fellow humans its amazing. Yes, we are the most charitable nation, but God has given us in such abundance, why can’t we give more? And not only more money, but time and effort.


32 posted on 03/23/2011 1:17:49 AM PDT by Cronos (Palin+Jindal: 2012)
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To: caww
About the Chinese -- well, this comes from the time of the Zhonggua (Middle Kingdom) concept. Now China under the Song and the Chin and the Han was the only civilisation around, surrounded by barbarians (in contrast, the civilisations in India (harappan), Iraq (Sumerian-Akkadian-Assyrian), Iran (Elamite-Persian), Egypt and later Greece, Rome were always connected for thousands of years. The entire construct from the UK to Bengal have been linked in one way or another since 2000 BC or earlier).

So the Chinese thought that they were the middle kingdom (between heaven and earth) and that's where their idea of racial and cultural superiority comes from. hence trade with the Europeans in the 1600s and 1700s was not trade, but foreign devils bringing tribute to the emperor and getting gifts in return.

Hence, when bargaining with a chinese -- expect insults etc. but be hard and maybe even a bit conniving -- you can say this is to be considered a gift by them etc.

33 posted on 03/23/2011 1:21:52 AM PDT by Cronos (Palin+Jindal: 2012)
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