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Father Frank Pavone: Who is Baby Joseph Maraachli and Why Should I Care?
Life News/Priests for Life ^ | 3/17/11 | Father Frank Pavone

Posted on 03/18/2011 1:14:05 PM PDT by wagglebee

The world has taken notice of a 14-month old baby from Canada whose family has been fighting the medical establishment since October to help their child breathe. Moe and Sana Maraachli were refused a tracheotomy for their son because the apparently fatal neurological disease that the child has renders further intervention “futile.”

Working with many others, we at Priests for Life arranged to have the baby transferred to Cardinal Glennon Children’s Medical Center in St Louis, and I went on the medical jet to pick up the baby and his father on Sunday night March 13. Now, the child has another chance at getting better care, and the family another chance at maximizing the time they can spend with their child.

A lot of media has accompanied the event. One reporter who was not too interested in covering the story asked, “Who the hell is Baby Joseph and why should I care?”

The short answer is, Baby Joseph is all of us.

After all, the problem underlying this case is not simply one particular hospital or the Canadian medical system. The problem is a philosophy of life that says that how valuable you are depends on how well you function. The problem is a philosophy of medicine that says that if someone is going to die anyway, there’s no benefit in prolonging life. The problem is a philosophy of suffering that says we can actually determine what somebody else’s level of happiness is, and measure their misery, and that if they don’t have the good sense to eliminate it, we can step in and do so against their wishes.

If we don’t think that we and our loved ones will be affected by this philosophy when it comes to our own medical challenges and decisions, we should think again. It’s happening every day, often with subtle or not so subtle pressure from medical professionals, who, instead of rendering medical judgments, render value judgments. Doctors are not supposed to judge for us the “meaning” or “value” of extending the life of a loved one, or our own life. Rather, they are supposed to judge for us whether a particular treatment or intervention will have certain effects on a loved one or on us. They need to leave it to us, in consultation with our family and clergy, to determine what meaning or value we find in the situation.

This is what the parents of Baby Joseph, together with Priests for Life and many others, are trying to say. Baby Joseph’s parents, who want to care for him no matter how long or short his life may be, were told that this life wasn’t worth extending. It’s time to draw a line in the sand and tell the medical profession that this is not their role. “Life not worth living” belongs to a philosophy that led to one of the world’s greatest holocausts, which ended with the declaration “Never Again.”

Our efforts on behalf of Baby Joseph can actually be summarized by those two words.

LifeNews.com Note: Father Frank Pavone is the national director of Priests for Life.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: josephmaraachli; moralabsolutes; prolife
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It’s time to draw a line in the sand and tell the medical profession that this is not their role. “Life not worth living” belongs to a philosophy that led to one of the world’s greatest holocausts, which ended with the declaration “Never Again.”

Father Pavone nails it here!

1 posted on 03/18/2011 1:14:08 PM PDT by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; Salvation; 8mmMauser
Pro-Life Ping
2 posted on 03/18/2011 1:15:12 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Lesforlife; Sun; RedMDer; Golden Gate
Ping
3 posted on 03/18/2011 1:16:04 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 185JHP; 230FMJ; AKA Elena; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; Amos the Prophet; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


4 posted on 03/18/2011 1:16:56 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

I’ve ignored every Baby Joseph thread I’ve seen. I have no clue who he is. In fact, the only reason I am responding in this thread is that I saw the title and I agree with it (and the title is all I read), in so much as “because I don’t know him, I’ll focus on the problems/issues of those I DO know.”


5 posted on 03/18/2011 1:18:18 PM PDT by RobRoy (The US Today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: wagglebee
It’s time to draw a line in the sand and tell the medical profession that this is not their role. “Life not worth living” belongs to a philosophy that led to one of the world’s greatest holocausts, which ended with the declaration “Never Again.”

Even if somebody is lacking in human compassion, one would think that common sense self interest would lead these people to realize that one day it might be their own precious hide tossed into the secular humanist discard pile.

6 posted on 03/18/2011 1:21:48 PM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: wagglebee

The problem is a philosophy of life that says that how valuable you are depends on how well you function. The problem is a philosophy of medicine that says that if someone is going to die anyway, there’s no benefit in prolonging life. The problem is a philosophy of suffering that says we can actually determine what somebody else’s level of happiness is, and measure their misery, and that if they don’t have the good sense to eliminate it, we can step in and do so against their wishes.


I think that is a perfect description of Obama and what he has in store for Americans.


7 posted on 03/18/2011 1:26:33 PM PDT by Freddd
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To: RobRoy

Wasn’t that the point, it’s only a matter of time until it is someone you do know or a matter of time until it is you?


8 posted on 03/18/2011 1:28:11 PM PDT by Freddd
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To: wagglebee

Wow! What an incredibly powerful article!


9 posted on 03/18/2011 1:28:21 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: RobRoy; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Golden Gate; RedMDer; Coleus; ...
I’ve ignored every Baby Joseph thread I’ve seen. I have no clue who he is. In fact, the only reason I am responding in this thread is that I saw the title and I agree with it (and the title is all I read), in so much as “because I don’t know him, I’ll focus on the problems/issues of those I DO know.”

And you claim to be a Christian?

You should take another look at the verse in your tagline (Revelation 18:4), because your post is indicative of the overall collapse of Christianity in America.

10 posted on 03/18/2011 1:33:23 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

This story moved me to tears. I pray for this beautiful, innocent baby, and for his family that he will get the medical care he needs in order to thrive and grow. To those who are so against helping this child, Shame on you! Ask yourself “What would Jesus do?” I expect you already know!!!


11 posted on 03/18/2011 1:43:22 PM PDT by Patsygirl
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To: wagglebee

Does anyone know how baby Joseph is doing? Has he undergone the tracheotomy? I haven’t seen anything for a couple of days now, since he was moved out of Canada.


12 posted on 03/18/2011 1:44:22 PM PDT by gloryblaze (Don't forget to donate and keep FR going strong!)
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To: wagglebee

Thank God for Father Pavone and all who made it possible for Baby Joseph to come to the USA for treatment and loving care amongst friends and family.

As for the reporter...he’s irrelevant, has no soul and therefore is lost and evidently has been for a long time.

Baby Joseph is the one who is important in this story.


13 posted on 03/18/2011 1:45:07 PM PDT by cubreporter (Rush Limbaugh...Man of all the years. Trust Rush he stands for America.)
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To: Freddd

Yes, it is the Christian worldview vs. Darwin/Postmodern view.

Whittaker Chambers expressed this culture war in 1954 as Man vs. God.

One says there is a God who decides life and death....and people have dignity and morality because they are made in God’s image—and there is Objective Truth—right and wrong.

The other says there is no God, therefore no Objective Truth—no right and wrong that doesn’t evolve and change as we decide right and wrong—we are just animals, and when we are useless eaters in the collective, we need to be eliminated. There is no meaning to life, anyway, except all the material wealth and power you can grab during your time on earth. NOW is all that matters.

We have seen the societies created from the godless worldview. They can never be free and good and just.


14 posted on 03/18/2011 1:45:42 PM PDT by savagesusie
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To: RobRoy

I feel sad for you.


15 posted on 03/18/2011 1:46:24 PM PDT by cubreporter (Rush Limbaugh...Man of all the years. Trust Rush he stands for America.)
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To: RobRoy

Why are you bragging about your ignorance?

If you are not interested, can you not keep that information to yourself?


16 posted on 03/18/2011 1:50:33 PM PDT by maica ( It is better to trust in the LORD Than to put confidence in man.)
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To: gloryblaze

The tracheotomy was scheduled to be done either yesterday or today. I haven’t seen any updates. He is doing as well as can be expected.

Here are some links, one of them has a link to a YouTube video of Father Pavone and Baby Joseph:
http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/josephmaraachli/index?tab=articles


17 posted on 03/18/2011 1:59:13 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: RobRoy

Matthew 25:40


18 posted on 03/18/2011 2:03:59 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: wagglebee

I predict that one day Fr. Pavone will be a cannonized saint.


19 posted on 03/18/2011 2:09:56 PM PDT by diamond6 (Check out: http://www.biblechristiansociety.com/home.php and learn about the faith.)
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To: wagglebee

While people have been agonizing over baby Joseph, thousands have been killed on our nation’s highways, and many more severely injured. Families have been devastated. And yet this one baby gets all the press.

What gives?


20 posted on 03/18/2011 2:28:41 PM PDT by RobRoy
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To: RobRoy
I've ignored every Baby Joseph thread I've seen.

Too bad you commented on this one...but, hey, that's your right. In the sense that we're all human beings, Father Pavone is correct in saying "Baby Joseph is all of us."Unless we want to hand over to doctors and the government the right to decide when and how we die, we simply have to express our outrage when they attempt it.

21 posted on 03/18/2011 2:30:31 PM PDT by IIntense
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To: maica

>>If you are not interested, can you not keep that information to yourself?<<

I did until I saw that headline. I wanted to say I agree with it. I do not believe in walking past a thousand suffering people to help another suffering person simply because he is the one getting all the press. This is political.


22 posted on 03/18/2011 2:30:48 PM PDT by RobRoy
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To: Joe 6-pack

Yes, but why this one baby specifically. Are there no needy people in your own town?


23 posted on 03/18/2011 2:32:22 PM PDT by RobRoy
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To: IIntense

>>Father Pavone is correct in saying “Baby Joseph is all of us.”Unless we want to hand over to doctors and the government the right to decide when and how we die, we simply have to express our outrage when they attempt it.<<

And right there you nailed it. This is a political issue. It is not about Joseph. It is about the state.


24 posted on 03/18/2011 2:34:23 PM PDT by RobRoy
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To: savagesusie

“Yes, it is the Christian worldview vs. Darwin/Postmodern view.”

Think again. We’ve got a supposed conservative Christian here saying he could give a damn.

I am an agnostic and I can assure you, I care alot.

This religious judmentalism is sickening.


25 posted on 03/18/2011 2:34:46 PM PDT by battletank
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
Even if somebody is lacking in human compassion, one would think that common sense self interest would lead these people to realize that one day it might be their own precious hide tossed into the secular humanist discard pile.

Even the parents realize that the baby isn't going to live. It's a cruel misrepresentation being made here.

The real point is that the parents should have the say, not the hospital. They have the right to take their child home to die, whether or not the hospital thinks it's too cruel to possibly inflict an infection or pneumonia on him (or his body, since his mind is already gone). Once we let other make decisions on our own lives, we have opened the door to tyranny.

26 posted on 03/18/2011 2:35:38 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: RobRoy

We know there are people like you in our midst. Too bad you had to crawl out from under your rock and make yourself known.


27 posted on 03/18/2011 2:36:34 PM PDT by Carley (WISCONSIN STREET NO DIFFERENT THAN THE ARAB STREET. UGLY AND VIOLENT)
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To: Carley

>>wrote:

We know there are people like you in our midst. Too bad you had to crawl out from under your rock and make yourself known.<<

I suppose the irony of that post is lost on you. ;)

Let me add another facet to this: I have not had television since 1997. I am not exposed to MSM hype. I get ALL of my news from the internet. I pull what actually matters to me and my family, and is within my realm of control. I will not step over a thousand suffering people to help one that has achieved notoriety. However, as I DO educate myself about this story (starting with reading the article before I responded to some of those who responded to me here) I realize this has everyone in a tizzy because of the political ramifications as opposed to this single person. And what is happening is what one would expect to happen under the health care system which supplies services to this child’s family.

The system is responding the way I would expect it to, which is why I am so against it. That said, I’ve been going more and more Galt every week for the last three years. And Galt didn’t fight the system. He couldn’t. Rather, he stepped out, allowed evil to reach it’s full fruition, and then stepped back in when it imploded.

My plans are not nearly as grandiose, but along the same lines.


28 posted on 03/18/2011 2:43:46 PM PDT by RobRoy
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To: RobRoy
"Yes, but why this one baby specifically. Are there no needy people in your own town"

To use Father Pavone's own words, "The short answer is, Baby Joseph is all of us."

If you look at the whole context of the verse I cited, from about Matthew 25:35-45, the mere awareness of another's suffering makes the action incumbent. Granted, we can't donate money, time or expertise to every worthy cause, nor can we personally bring succor to every suffering person (although it's my personal suspicion that most of us can do more than we do). We can however, pray, and spread awareness so that perhaps another person with the money, time or expertise a situation requires is inspired to give of themselves. IMHO, that's the Christian thing to do.

29 posted on 03/18/2011 2:44:44 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Carley

>>We know there are people like you in our midst. Too bad you had to crawl out from under your rock and make yourself known.<<

By the way, I get this response a lot from women when dealing with child and animal issues. I expect it. I like to say that whenever I want to get in touch with my feminine side, I reach for my wife. I have a very male attitude. I am not a “sensitive 90’s guy” with wildly misplaced compassion.

One cannot make difficult decisions when you are muddled in emotion.


30 posted on 03/18/2011 2:47:13 PM PDT by RobRoy
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To: RobRoy
And right there you nailed it. This is a political issue. It is not about Joseph. It is about the state.

Of course, it is about BOTH. It has to be, once the state is in the picture. The parents were found to be in contempt of court for not "consenting" to have the respirator removed. Hello? The parents were not allowed to pay for the tracheotomy themselves to bypass the "state's" declaration of only palliative care, as IT deemed apprpriate. Hello? The hospital refused to release the medical records, even at the PARENTS" request. Hello? And on and on. Who is playing God here? It's "political" only because one has to fight fire with ... FIRE. Hello?

31 posted on 03/18/2011 2:51:07 PM PDT by gloryblaze (Don't forget to donate and keep FR going strong!)
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To: Joe 6-pack

>>Granted, we can’t donate money, time or expertise to every worthy cause, nor can we personally bring succor to every suffering person (although it’s my personal suspicion that most of us can do more than we do). We can however, pray, and spread awareness so that perhaps another person with the money, time or expertise a situation requires is inspired to give of themselves. IMHO, that’s the Christian thing to do.<<

With that I heartily agree. What you are basically telling me is that we all choose our avenue of giving and prayer and I basically should “feel” conviction that I am judging the avenue others took.

And I think you are correct.

I apologize to the rest of you on this thread for belittling your sincere efforts to help in this situation in whatever way you are. I sincerely mean that.


32 posted on 03/18/2011 2:51:12 PM PDT by RobRoy
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To: RobRoy
"What you are basically telling me is that we all choose our avenue of giving and prayer and I basically should “feel” conviction that I am judging the avenue others took."

Nope. I'm not telling you anything apart from the fact that Christ told us, "...whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me."

If you wish to turn your back on Him, and say that His suffering doesn't matter to you, feel free to do so.

33 posted on 03/18/2011 2:54:46 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: RobRoy

First they came for baby Joseph...


34 posted on 03/18/2011 2:58:05 PM PDT by RedMDer (restoration of our honor, dignity, and freedoms will save America. - Sarah Palin)
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To: RobRoy

Why not pretend you are Galt and go away NOW.


35 posted on 03/18/2011 2:59:29 PM PDT by Carley (WISCONSIN STREET NO DIFFERENT THAN THE ARAB STREET. UGLY AND VIOLENT)
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To: battletank

I would much rather have agnostics than atheists in control of government. Usually agnostics base their reason on Natural Law which design presupposes a supreme being. They do not deny the possibility of God which means they will not usually adopt the atheist viewpoint of man.....that they are just animals so the end justifies the means.

The end justifies the means can never be a Christian viewpoint. People who call for the end of Baby Joseph Maraachli are people with this moral relativist viewpoint. There is no objective truth. They cannot truly be Christian if they believe in moral relativism.


36 posted on 03/18/2011 3:00:49 PM PDT by savagesusie
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To: Joe 6-pack

>>If you wish to turn your back on Him, and say that His suffering doesn’t matter to you, feel free to do so.<<

There is a disconnect here.


37 posted on 03/18/2011 3:41:00 PM PDT by RobRoy
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To: RedMDer

>>First they came for baby Joseph...<<

Yes, that is the political aspect I was talking about.


38 posted on 03/18/2011 3:41:45 PM PDT by RobRoy
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To: Carley

>>Why not pretend you are Galt and go away NOW.<<

I will not judge you for the attitude for you only know what I have posted here. That is not enough for any person to really have much of a clue about who I am. I do know this: Those that know me in real life would be perplexed by that statement being aimed at me. ;)


39 posted on 03/18/2011 3:44:12 PM PDT by RobRoy
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To: Joe 6-pack

>>Nope. I’m not telling you anything apart from the fact that Christ told us, “...whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.”<<

Actually, what you were telling me in the thread to which I was responding was this, and I quote:

“Granted, we can’t donate money, time or expertise to every worthy cause, nor can we personally bring succor to every suffering person (although it’s my personal suspicion that most of us can do more than we do). We can however, pray, and spread awareness so that perhaps another person with the money, time or expertise a situation requires is inspired to give of themselves. IMHO, that’s the Christian thing to do.”

I feel as if you are trying to trap me in a form of “Is it true you’ve stopped beating your wife?” The “either/or” perspective does not apply here.


40 posted on 03/18/2011 3:47:45 PM PDT by RobRoy
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To: RobRoy
"There is a disconnect here."

How so? If we are to treat "the least of these" among us (i.e. Baby Joseph) as we do Christ, you would be willing to say of Christ, "...because I don’t know him, I’ll focus on the problems/issues of those I DO know,” just as you said of Joseph.

41 posted on 03/18/2011 4:00:25 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: RobRoy
"Actually, what you were telling me in the thread to which I was responding was this, and I quote..."

Actually, I merely cited a Scripture verse, to which you inquired, "Yes, but why this one baby specifically. Are there no needy people in your own town?"

Don't ask questions if you're not prepared to have them answered. If the answer brought you into uncomfortable territory, I would suggest that perhaps you ought to evaluate where you were standing in the first place.

"I feel as if you are trying to trap me..."

I needn't put forth that much effort when you already painted yourself into a corner.

42 posted on 03/18/2011 4:04:19 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: RobRoy
>>First they came for baby Joseph...<<
Yes, that is the political aspect I was talking about.

I am not giving you cover for your rediculous comment that you made at post #5 seen below

I’ve ignored every Baby Joseph thread I’ve seen. I have no clue who he is. In fact, the only reason I am responding in this thread is that I saw the title and I agree with it (and the title is all I read), in so much as “because I don’t know him, I’ll focus on the problems/issues of those I DO know.”

I guess if you dont know the guy obviously dying by the side of the road then you just walk around him.

43 posted on 03/18/2011 4:18:00 PM PDT by RedMDer (restoration of our honor, dignity, and freedoms will save America. - Sarah Palin)
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To: RobRoy; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
While people have been agonizing over baby Joseph, thousands have been killed on our nation’s highways, and many more severely injured. Families have been devastated.

Well, YOU certainly haven't agonized about Baby Joseph, by your own admission you had know idea who he was a few hours ago and probably still don't.

Yes, people are killed every day in tragic accidents; however, their deaths are not IMMEDIATELY PREVENTABLE the way that Baby Joseph's is.

And yet this one baby gets all the press.

This baby gets press because people who care about the sanctity of life CHOSE to do everything possible to save his life.

Were it left up to the mainstream media, the ones who report the news you do care about, Baby Joseph would have been murdered and nobody would have known.

44 posted on 03/18/2011 4:52:09 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
Were it left up to the mainstream media, the ones who report the news you do care about, Baby Joseph would have been murdered and nobody would have known.

Very good point. It happens too many times every day.

45 posted on 03/18/2011 4:58:18 PM PDT by RedMDer (restoration of our honor, dignity, and freedoms will save America. - Sarah Palin)
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To: Joe 6-pack

>>How so? If we are to treat “the least of these” among us (i.e. Baby Joseph) as we do Christ, you would be willing to say of Christ, “...because I don’t know him, I’ll focus on the problems/issues of those I DO know,” just as you said of Joseph.<<

If I focused on the problems of every single person in the world, I’d go crazy. Literally. Joseph is not the only “least of these” in the world. He is just the one getting press, and the industry is cleaning up pulling heart strings. I am not attempting to minimize his suffering. Rather, I see the massive focus on his suffering as minimizing the millions of other “baby Josephs” in the world. But again. This baby Joseph thing is really not about him or how I treat him (since I am thousands of miles away), but about the politics of what is going on. That is why it is a story in the first place.

A friend’s son (who is now in his 20’s) was born with downs syndrom. He was not expected to live more than a few years. But we went to the hospital and “patterned” him anyway. It was worthwhile. ;)


46 posted on 03/18/2011 5:09:19 PM PDT by RobRoy
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To: Joe 6-pack

OK, apparently you live in the same town as Joseph. My bad.


47 posted on 03/18/2011 5:10:20 PM PDT by RobRoy
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To: RedMDer

>>I guess if you dont know the guy obviously dying by the side of the road then you just walk around him.<<

That is not analogous to what is going on here. This is media manipulation of people’s feelings. Not having television myself, it is easy to see from the outside.

I repeat what I said earlier: It makes no sense to walk by 10 starving people to feed a starving person. Start with the one closest to you and work your way out. But still, this is not about Joseph. It is about the political fallout of what the state is attempting. Joseph just brings the “humanity” to the story.


48 posted on 03/18/2011 5:13:23 PM PDT by RobRoy
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To: wagglebee

Yes, I’ll agree with most of what you are saying in that post. I look at it as very similar to the Terry Schiavo case. A media frenzy over a very political hot potato.

>>Well, YOU certainly haven’t agonized about Baby Joseph...<<
As I said in a previous post, if I agonized over every person that is suffering in the world, I would literally go insane. What about the people in the middle east that are being slaughtered right now? I don’t see anybody here flying out there to join them on the front lines. How you feel about that could be similar to how I feel about Joseph. Thanks to the press I’d say he’s pretty well covered by folks like you. And that IS a good thing.

Meanwhile, I’ll focus on the suffering of others. And that is a good thing too.


49 posted on 03/18/2011 5:18:38 PM PDT by RobRoy
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To: RobRoy; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
Yes, I’ll agree with most of what you are saying in that post. I look at it as very similar to the Terry Schiavo case. A media frenzy over a very political hot potato.

Actually, the pro-life movement learned a lot from Terri. This is why people like the Schindlers and Father Pavone decided to keep this from becoming political, nobody waited for the Canadian courts to "do the right thing," they just went to Canada and rescued Baby Joseph.

As I said in a previous post, if I agonized over every person that is suffering in the world, I would literally go insane.

So you choose to care about NONE OF THEM, and you choose to call yourself a Christian and reference Revelation 18:4 in your tagline? That makes no sense.

How you feel about that could be similar to how I feel about Joseph. Thanks to the press I’d say he’s pretty well covered by folks like you.

The mainstream media has NEVER publicized Baby Joseph's case. Pro-life news outlets and Free Republic did that.

50 posted on 03/18/2011 5:25:39 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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