Skip to comments.Why can't we just let the Libyans fight it out (...and then make friends with the winners)
Posted on 03/20/2011 4:13:01 AM PDT by Scanian
Politics seems to have become a sort of mental illness. We have no bloody business in Libya, and no idea what we hope to achieve there.
We are daily told that we have no money to spare. We have just scrapped a large part of our Navy.
Our Army is stuck in an Afghan war whose point nobody can explain. And now we have set out on a course that could drag us into a long, gory brawl in North Africa.
And yet, when the Prime Minister announces this folly he is praised. Why? Partly it is because we all watch too much TV. Its reports simplify, then exaggerate.
Reporters, much like politicians, like to feel they are helping to make history, and get excited by subjects they knew nothing about until last Wednesday.
Before we know where we are, we are taking sides in quarrels we dont understand. Who are the Libyan rebels? What do they want? Why do we love them so?
Ive no idea, and nor has Mr Cameron, as we discovered when he (yes, it was him, not poor William Hague) sent the SAS to see them and they were welcomed with pitchforks and mockery.
The only sensible policy in Libya is to wait and see who wins, and then make friends with them. If you think this heartless, you are of course right. Foreign policy is heartless. Nice countries end up being conquered or going bankrupt. But it may be no more heartless than our kindly interference.
I pray that this episode ends quickly and cleanly. Perhaps it will. But we cannot know. What if our humanitarian bombs and missiles accidentally kill women and children (which is almost certain)? What if air attacks and distant shelling fail to stop Gaddafis forces?
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
Kill ‘em all and let God sort it out.
Why? Because genocide would happen.
And Quadaffi would kill thousands.
....because this way we can make enemies out of both of them.
Unfortunately, that is how I feel. I hope that my heart will soften soon.
Muslims will ALWAYS be our enemies. It is an article of faith with them.
To believe otherwise is to ignore reality.
you got that right
And if we just see a change in which tribes are doing the slaughtering? Oh well, declare a success and turn off the cameras.
Then let their filthy rich Arab co-religionists barge in and set things right.
We are overextended as it is. And broke, as is the UK.
I don’t believe that we are over extended. We can do a lot more killing. The problem is that we do not have the will power. Afghanistan and Iraq would have been over years ago if we had the will to kill. I say better them then our men.
What if our humanitarian bombs and missiles accidentally kill women and children (which is almost certain)? What if air attacks and distant shelling fail to stop Gaddafis forces?
Found in the book, “How to Win Friends and Influence People”.
Who are the Libyan rebels? What do they want? Why do we love them so?
A question begging for an answer before we do something stupid, like upset the middle eastern apple cart any more.
He's a terrorist that should pay with his life and be example to other would be terrorists what happens to those who go down that path.
Kill Gaddafi and get out. Libyans can do what they want with their country after he's dead be it peaceful or civil war. It's their blood to spend as they please. No more "nation building".
That's my opinion...
You raised a point that has caused me to appreciate Hobbs. The leviathan is comprises of the peasants and the dictator. The head of the leviathan is the dictator. The body (peasants) are culpable for the crimes of the leviathan, of which they are a part.
...then scroll down a bit, and off to the right side is a column with the latest on the wherabouts of the Lockerbie bomber.
Genocide is happening every day in American abortion mills and it doesn’t seem to bother the liberals.
For Democracy?? Come on now-—does ayone really believe a Democracy will last past the first Muslim election?
Whichever side wins , they will still hate the Western countries, and turn on us like rabid dogs.
We needed to let them solve this problem themselves.
62 Million dollars worth of Tomahawks wasted. If they wanted to get rid of Hussein they should have shot them at him.
Like you, I don't think this is the time, when Gaddafi threatens genocide, for hand wringing or ambivalence.
Genocide has been going on in Dharfur for many years and not a soul has done squat to stop it. This war is not about genocide.
Do you think no Libyans are being killed by our bombs?
We are on the right side now. In the future, the rebels may turn out to be bad, but if you use that logic then you would never help anyone. Anyone could turn out bad. I that why you don’t give to the needy?
Many have been slaughtered already. It is past time.
We should have bombed when the rebels held the oil fields.
Since it is done, it is time to deal with that reality.
So, because genocide is going on in Dharfur, we should allow genocide to go on everywhere?
Not all Muslims hate us. Many Americans today stand shoulder to shoulder with Muslims fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. I am not pretending that there are not a huge number who do hate us, but by no means do all of them.
How does one tell the difference, without dieing first?
The difference between what?
Libya is a civil war. If you can turn your back on Christians being murdered by Muslims in Dharfur, it is hard to make the phony case that genocide is more important when Muslims are killing each other.
Frankly, we have no idea who the rebels are. If they are MB backed, I won’t miss them.
Between a Muslim that hates us, and a Muslim that does not?
Supporting rebels with ties to the Muslim brotherhood is not being on the right side. Visit some sites of reformed jihadist. Walid Shoebat to start. Don't depend on Fox News or politicians to tell you which dogs are in a fight. We are not on the right side. It is rare to have a side chosen by Hilary to be the right side.
I never turned my back on the Christians in Dharfur. The problem is that no good Christian has been willing to pay me to do anything about it. Money makes the world go around.
Between a Muslim that hates us, and a Muslim that does not?
The world has changed now, like it or not. Left alone, Gadaffi would unleash mercenaries and massacre thousands upon thousands as Eu /US watched.
Speaking of Lockerbie and for anyone else who’s been wondering,
Frankly my dear...(just an expression, not a jab)
I haven’t been wondering, other than this: We give a great big pass to the dicktator in Iran, who is scheduled to be the next nuclear power at our expense, and who actually invaded our sovereign territory, making hostages of our citizens and instead, invade, (sort of), Libya home of the Lockerbie bomber, planner, and executor.
I wasn’t referring to you in particular. Surely you know that.
We are not in this Libya mess because of Daffy killing people. We are killing people too now.
Everyday service members from the US and other western countries go on patrols with Moslems in Iraq and Afghanistan. Most of them workout well. We're well treated in the Gulf States and many other places. It's simply wrong headed to say all Moslems hate us.
You are not seeing the big picture. Once Gaddafi is dead then a rebel will take his place. We will learn who the Muslim Brother Hood rebel is, then we can take care of him. If we do not take out Gaddafi then we will never know who the Muslim Brother Hood man is.
No, all Pirates hate free people. Lets start killing the pirates. All people who deploy IED’s hate fee men, lets kill them. You get the idea.
Well, on a positive note, hopefully this means that al-Megrahi’s Lamborghini trips to see his new mansion will be a thing of the past.
It’s about Who will control the oil!!
I have been living the big picture for nearly 20 years now. I have learned that liberals will send my sons off to fight for the Muslim brotherhood when they should be taking out the lot radical islam. You don’t try out the devil to see how he fits.
Leviathan established the foundation for most of Western political philosophy from the perspective of social contract theory.
I never read it, so I’m not sure where I stand on social contract theory. I know where I stand on supporting rebels we really are clueless about. The Colonel has actually listened to us in the past, although if everything about Lockerbie is true, he does have a streak of get even.
it has come to light that al queda is behind the uprising....do you remember iran, 1979??? this truly is carters second term
Killing, fighting or whatever you want to call it with borrowed money?
Has NBC called this a civil war?
Sounds good, but the problem is that you are full of it. It is time to start fighting this war, and stop pretending it does not exist.
The problem is that we have not been enjoying the spoils of war. Sun Tzu understood that you can not win a war by transporting material long distances. Bush made the mistake of not taxing Iraq of its oil. If we would have been taking Iraq’s oil all this time we would not be in the position we are in today.
But Bourbon is whiskey, but not all whiskey is bourbon. Some Muslims are pirates who hate free people. Some Muslims plant IEDs. Not all Muslims are pirates or people who plant IEDs. There should not be a collective guilt. It's simply not logical.
Think of it this way. Some white people were Nazis, but not all white people were. Some white people were in the KKK, but not all white people were.
Those who foment hate, like al Qaeda, love it when they can provoke us to buy into the same division as they do.
I see plenty of principled reasons to oppose what was done in Iraq (the US Constitution, the fear of the cost, and other valid considerations). I don't agree that all Muslims should be dead is a valid or moral argument. Nor, do I think anyone has the resources for that.
Quran (2:191-193) - “And slay them(infidels) wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places ..... to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist.”
There has been many crusades,
Before this is over we may have to have another.
Drive the “religion of peace” back to the sand pit hell where it belongs
Basically Hobbs was in favor of big government. He believed that the sovereign and the peasants worked as a team. He believed that they were one (leviathan). I believe that the peasants are as culpable as the sovereign because Hobbs is correct, to a point.