Liberty Dollar creator convicted in federal court (Feds say opposing them is "domestic terrorism")

The Citizen-Times, Asheville, NC | 2011-03-19

[rabscuttle385]

Link only, per FR posting rules

[freedumb2003]

They are crystal clear:

>>The JFK Oversized Proof is a spectacular replica of the iconic 1964 JFK Half-Dollar. <<

It is clearly a collectible — why do you not think they made it oversized?

The case at point tried to pass of “Liberty Dollars” as “U.S. Dollars.” Not as collectibles (would you use a $295 oversized dollar as a buck?).

You are wrong on every possible angle on this one, my FRiend.

The Liberty “Dollar” was an attempt for a private person to substitute scrip for money. It failed, and rightly so.

I could open a mill tomorrow and start to manufacture “Bald Eagle Dollars” that looked cool and a lot like real silver dollars. I could also name myself “The U.S. Minting Supply” — and then sell them. I assure you, that would be exactly what happened here.

Why are you protecting scam artists? Do you have a ton of the now worthless Liberty “Dollars” and are hoping to at least get your original money back?

[lmr]

Unlike the crap we have in our wallets.

If you don't want the 'crap' in your wallet, I'll gladly take it off your hands. Just send it to me.

[freedumb2003]

God punishes Conservatives by making them argue with fools.

My FRiend you inadvertently cut me to the quick! I shall now leave this thread, since I am making no headway.

I mean no bad feelings to you, lmr -- merely a hanging of my head in shame for being pulled into a meaningless discussion -- and led by someone whose understanding I cannot trust.

Good night gentle FRiends.

And on the morrow I shall begin my new mint! :) ;)

[Crim]

Funny stuff....first in post #8 you claimed...and I quote:

---

Communities print their own currency to keep cash flowing<<

“No they can’t.”

---

Then..in post #12...AFTER being proven WRONG......you not only admit they CAN...you attempt justify it....with some BS about it being “voluntary”....

Again..the clear language:

“Article I, section 8, clause 5 of the United States Constitution delegates to Congress the power to coin money and to regulate the value thereof.”

If a “liberty dollar” is illegal...so is a “detroit dollar”...

You can cut and run...or you can argue the point...your choice...

Night.

[LukeL]

If you think about it a private bank is allowed to print money and sell it to the government. What a sweet deal that must be, print up some paper and sell it to a country then take the profits and buy up real things like gold, silver, and other commodities.

[Walts Ice Pick]

Isn't that something?

You know, they also threaten prosecution even if you print money that follows all the rules about what U.S. currency is supposed to look like.

It seems you just can't win when it comes to printing money.

[Hardraade]

Silver bullets. Against vampire government. Each box with a complimentary portrait of Bela Lugosi.

Would sell like hotcakes, be Liberty supportive, and have no handles for the feds to latch onto.

[sten]

only way to avoid paying income taxes... stop working

[higgmeister]

They paint them and plate them but, from what I can, tell they are real dollars underneath. Otherwise they can’t call them “dollars.”

I think you've been mislead. If they advertise a $20,00 gold coin, they didn't take the real gold coin and plate it with gold. It is a facsimile that has been plated with gold. Clearly counterfeiting to my understanding.

[Monorprise]

“Along with the power to coin money, Congress has the concurrent power to restrain the circulation of money which is not issued under its own authority”

That power is no where in the U.S. Constitution!

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

What are they doing making up new laws as they go?

[lmr]

If you think about it a private bank is allowed to print money and sell it to the government.

Do you mean the Federal Reserve? The place where every conspiracy to 'bring down the U.S.A.' and to 'control us' are hatched? That bank? The one that wants to 'turn us into Zimbabwe?' The bank that needs to immediately surrender itself to Ron Paul if we are to be 'saved?'

[yadent]

The coins are hardly ‘worthless’. The $20.00 Liberty Dollar is 1 ounce of 99.9% silver worth more than $34.00 in the silver market. Heck, at least this coin had actual metal value and not that ‘backed by the good faith’ of something we use now(excluding the nickel). I will gladly exchange my $20.00 ‘legal tender’ bill for a ‘scrip’ $20.00 Liberty Dollar anytime.

[matthew fuller]

I think that we have a winner!

[UnwashedPeasant]

"The term “dollar” means something. Attempting to substitute something else is pure counterfeiting, nothing else."

The word dollar is not exclusive to US government-sponsored coinage. For example, Canadian dollars and Zimbabwe dollars. Some of the Liberty coins include the statement "NOTICE: NOT INTENDED TO BE USED AS LEGAL TENDER, CURRENT MONEY, OR COIN." They also include contact info and political statements. They were NEVER passed off as US government coinage or legal tender.

These silver rounds are made by NORFED, which is an acronym for “National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve and the Internal Revenue Code.” Clearly political.

The legal action against NORFED is politically motivated. Their website www.libertydollar.org has been replaced with a statement that says, “Site Removed Due to Court Order.” So the court is shutting down political speech that is somehow displeasing to the ruling class.

[agere_contra]

Silver rounds are money. They are not ‘legal tender’: they are something better: real money. They act as a store of value which mere currency does not.

This distinction is going to come into sharp focus when the USD devalues sometime this year.

Hope President Palin pardons this guy. And I hope he gets back every oz of the silver that the Fed are stealing from him.

[Munz]

>He should appeal...and cite this: http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2009-04-05-scrip_N.htm <

I see your point but a few thoughts.

1. he should appeal no matter what, he has nothing to lose at this point since it is federal court and is not getting a reduced sentence for anything. He will die in prison.

2. The article you mentioned may not be the best defense for him. The way that they are doing it is a bartering system that is locally confined to help one community. Whereas his business was producing coins that he sold as legal tender for all debts anywhere.

I see that as a problem for him using that defense. It is a difference between a few businesses bartering services or products between them like a merchants association and someone trying to coin a duplicate of actual currency.

he would be better off comparing himself to say the Franklin Mint
http://www.franklinmint.com/

[freedumb2003]

No one but the federal government can create money. I was right from the get-go.

I just noted there are silly little workarounds that can be attempted. I was right from the start and my follow-ups are also correct.

Community scrip isn’t money — it is just couponing.

[freedumb2003]

>>The coins are hardly ‘worthless’. The $20.00 Liberty Dollar is 1 ounce of 99.9% silver worth more than $34.00 in the silver market. Heck, at least this coin had actual metal value and not that ‘backed by the good faith’ of something we use now(excluding the nickel). I will gladly exchange my $20.00 ‘legal tender’ bill for a ‘scrip’ $20.00 Liberty Dollar anytime.<<

Fine — call it the Yardbird or the Beatle. It isn’t backed by anything other than the current value of silver. Invest in it if you wish.

When we went off the gold standard an entirely new milieu emerged. Agree or disagree with that decision, it is the current state of affairs.

[freedumb2003]

>>The word dollar is not exclusive to US government-sponsored coinage. For example, Canadian dollars and Zimbabwe dollars. Some of the Liberty coins include the statement “NOTICE: NOT INTENDED TO BE USED AS LEGAL TENDER, CURRENT MONEY, OR COIN.” They also include contact info and political statements. They were NEVER passed off as US government coinage or legal tender. <<

A difference without a distinction. The court (properly) saw this as an attempt to coin an alternative to the official US dollar.

>>So the court is shutting down political speech that is somehow displeasing to the ruling class.<<

Conspiracies around every corner, I tells ya! Conspiracies! Next up, they will go after our precious bodily fluids!

[j_tull]

It’s all good when done in a liberal hell, like where I live..http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=158x12694