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Joe Biden: ‘Framers Intended to Grant Congress Power to Initiate All Hostilities, Even Limited Wars’
Cybercast News Service ^ | 3/21/11 | Terence P. Jeffrey

Posted on 03/21/2011 9:56:26 AM PDT by Nachum

After studying the constitutional language governing the use of military force and the debates that the Framers had on the issue, Joe Biden determined that the Founding Fathers had vested the power to authorize even the limited use of military force in the Congress not the president---unless it was necessary for the president to act swiftly to repel an attack on the United States or to rescue U.S. citizens. Biden derided the opposite position—that the president could use military force without congressional authorization—as a “monarchist” view of presidential power. That was in 1998, however, when Biden was in the Senate.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnsnews.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: balanceofpowere; biden; congress; framers; intended; joe; usurper; war
Definition of HYPOCRITE

1
: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion

2
: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings
— hypocrite adjective

1 posted on 03/21/2011 9:56:30 AM PDT by Nachum
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To: Jet Jaguar; NorwegianViking; ExTexasRedhead; HollyB; FromLori; EricTheRed_VocalMinority; ...

The list, ping

Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list

http://www.nachumlist.com/


2 posted on 03/21/2011 9:58:26 AM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: Nachum

My cranial pressure is reaching the point of no return. I’m going to start bleeding from my eyes and ears if I have to listen to these idiots anymore.

I swear this must be how it felt to be an underling at Enron or some other company where the CEO is a complete buffoon and everyone knows it.


3 posted on 03/21/2011 10:02:09 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Nachum; freekitty; SeekAndFind; JLAGRAYFOX; MamaDearest; flat; unkus; 70th Division; WhatNot; ...

Someone needs to tell gutless, hypocrite Biden that we also were given the right to IMPEACHMENT for worthless ineligible usurpers like the current one.


4 posted on 03/21/2011 10:02:26 AM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
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To: Nachum

Well...Biden was right in 1998...not so much today. I wonder what’s changed?


5 posted on 03/21/2011 10:07:08 AM PDT by pgkdan (Protect and Defend America! End the practice of islam on our shores before it's too late!)
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To: pgkdan
Well...Biden was right in 1998...not so much today. I wonder what’s changed?

The Constitution grants to Congress the power to declare war. However, the President has some limited powers to call the military into action. Biden's position in his previous statement was that even those limited powers granted to the President by the Constitution are subject to the permission of Congress - in essence creating 535 mini-commanders-in-chief over the actual CIC.

6 posted on 03/21/2011 10:16:44 AM PDT by VRWCmember (Veritas vos Liberabit)
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To: Nachum

huh? What a class A dick


7 posted on 03/21/2011 10:22:20 AM PDT by GoCards (RUN SARAH RUN)
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To: Nachum

Did Jefferson ask congress for permission to send the marines to Tripoli?

Nope.


8 posted on 03/21/2011 10:27:15 AM PDT by Crim
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To: Nachum

For Liberals and Progressives the Constitution is interpreted as a license to make up the rules as you go along.


9 posted on 03/21/2011 10:30:33 AM PDT by OrioleFan (Republicans believe every day is the 4th of July, democrats believe every day is April 15.)
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To: VRWCmember

Sorry but I strenuously disagree. The President has limited authority to act in an emergency without Congressional approval. The actions we saw last week are well outside those bounds. There is absolutely NO constitutional or legal authority for obama’s actions regarding the farce being carried out over Libya right now.


10 posted on 03/21/2011 10:35:07 AM PDT by pgkdan (Protect and Defend America! End the practice of islam on our shores before it's too late!)
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To: Crim
Did Jefferson ask congress for permission to send the marines to Tripoli?

The pirates in that region were actively attacking American ships. That was a "clear and present danger".

Thomas Jefferson wrote at length in opposition to the use of American Military for any other reason.

11 posted on 03/21/2011 10:35:35 AM PDT by GingisK
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To: Crim

Jefferson abused the constitution on several occasions. That doesn’t make it right.


12 posted on 03/21/2011 10:36:05 AM PDT by pgkdan (Protect and Defend America! End the practice of islam on our shores before it's too late!)
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To: Nachum

IOW, Joe says it’s no BFD.


13 posted on 03/21/2011 10:38:26 AM PDT by TADSLOS (Tea Party. We are the party of NO! NO to more government! NO to more spending! NO to more taxation!)
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To: Crim

And I don’t remember a declaration of war against the Plains Indians. Just saying.


14 posted on 03/21/2011 10:38:26 AM PDT by mick (Central Banker Capitalism is NOT Free Enterprise)
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To: Crim
Much like an “authorization for the use of force” recently passed by Congress - legislation was passed by Congress as a ‘de facto’ Congressional approval/declaration of war.

Jefferson, in 1801, informed Congress of his intent and got approval to seize all vessels and goods of the sovereign of Tripoli - that seems like war to me - and they even referred to the condition between the two nations as a “state of war”.

In 1802 he asked for, and received Congressional approval in the form of...

“An act for the Protection of Commerce and seamen of the United States against the Tripolitan cruisers”, authorizing the President to “... employ such of the armed vessels of the United States as may be judged requisite ... for protecting effectually the commerce and seamen thereof on the Atlantic ocean, the Mediterranean and adjoining seas.”

15 posted on 03/21/2011 10:42:33 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: pgkdan

“Jefferson abused the constitution on several occasions. That doesn’t make it right.”

LMAO...yeah he only WROTE it....what would he know about Art 2....

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL!!!!!!


16 posted on 03/21/2011 10:45:15 AM PDT by Crim
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To: Nachum

”A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.” James 1:8

Every member of the crew of Obozomaniacs could serve as the posterboy for that one. But the Gaffemaster is my choice.


17 posted on 03/21/2011 11:07:42 AM PDT by Dick Bachert (2012 CAN'T COME SOON ENOUGH FOR ME. HOW ABOUT YOU?)
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To: Nachum

When the rules were originally set up, the men making them were truly Godly men, who based our laws on God’s Own laws as described in the Holy Bible, Mr. Biden. No longer is Congress composed of only Godly men, to the detriment of our precious Republic. Our military was formed to protect America. Without God there can be no America.


18 posted on 03/21/2011 11:14:55 AM PDT by Paperdoll ( On the cutting edge)
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To: Nachum

Joe Biden can read?


19 posted on 03/21/2011 11:15:06 AM PDT by hsalaw
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To: Crim
Sorry Mr. History Professor but Jefferson played absolutely no part in drafting the Constitution except for whatever ideas he may have passed onto the delegates to the constitutional Convention via letters he may have sent from France.

Care to explain to me the constitutional authority cited for the Louisian Purchase?

20 posted on 03/21/2011 11:31:58 AM PDT by pgkdan (Protect and Defend America! End the practice of islam on our shores before it's too late!)
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To: pgkdan

“Care to explain to me the constitutional authority cited for the Louisian Purchase?”

So...should we give it back?


21 posted on 03/21/2011 11:34:37 AM PDT by Crim
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To: Crim

So the ends justify the means? Why even pretend then that we care a whit about what the constitution says? Nothing I admire more than integrity. Just sayin’...


22 posted on 03/21/2011 11:40:53 AM PDT by pgkdan (Protect and Defend America! End the practice of islam on our shores before it's too late!)
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To: pgkdan

So should we give it back?

Simple question....yes or no....


23 posted on 03/21/2011 11:42:52 AM PDT by Crim
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To: Crim

A stupid and pointless question. You should have given up several posts ago. You are in over your head.


24 posted on 03/21/2011 11:45:05 AM PDT by pgkdan (Protect and Defend America! End the practice of islam on our shores before it's too late!)
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To: Nachum
Old bubblin' joey bye-den telling us what the framers of the US Constitution intended????????????

joey! They don't mean the folks who built the wooden frame for the US Constitution replica that hangs in your office....they meant the folks who actually composed it!!!!

Hang in there joey!! It'll all be over soon!

25 posted on 03/21/2011 11:50:35 AM PDT by Logic n' Reason
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To: pgkdan

“A stupid and pointless question. You should have given up several posts ago. You are in over your head”

Painted yourself into a corner...

BUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

So I take it that you are OK with keeping the land west of the mississippi...even though you feel it’s purchase was unconstitutional...

Which of course means you are a hypocrite.


26 posted on 03/21/2011 11:58:12 AM PDT by Crim
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To: Crim
Good grief! I surrender to your vastly superior dialectic skills.

Now, do yourself a favor and buy a history book.

27 posted on 03/21/2011 12:05:39 PM PDT by pgkdan (Protect and Defend America! End the practice of islam on our shores before it's too late!)
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To: Nachum

see you just don’t understand the liberal mindset yet ..

it is all bad when republicans do it, but okay when liberals do it.

you must not have gotten the presidential memo on that


28 posted on 03/21/2011 12:21:41 PM PDT by Munz (All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.)
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To: Nachum
Surprise Drudge is not covering the constitutional issues of Obama and Libya
29 posted on 03/21/2011 12:30:57 PM PDT by opentalk
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To: Nachum

I believe Obama has the power to do what he’s done so far under the War Powers Act. That said, it doesn’t make Biden less of a hypocrite.


30 posted on 03/21/2011 12:40:12 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (Anyone who says we need illegals to do the jobs Americans won't do has never watched "Dirty Jobs.")
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To: Crim

Jefferson didn’t write the Constitution. He was our ambassador to France at the time.


31 posted on 03/21/2011 12:42:18 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (Anyone who says we need illegals to do the jobs Americans won't do has never watched "Dirty Jobs.")
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To: Crim

Jefferson didn’t write the Constitution. He was our ambassador to France at the time.

However, I don’t see where an action against some pirates to keep shipping safe is in the same realm as declaring a state of warwith another nation, so I think his actions were valid.


32 posted on 03/21/2011 12:43:28 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (Anyone who says we need illegals to do the jobs Americans won't do has never watched "Dirty Jobs.")
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To: Nachum
Joe Biden is excused from any statement he may have made due to reasons of mental incapacity.

That why the puppet master Soros selected him for ObaMao, his personal sock puppet.

33 posted on 03/21/2011 1:29:51 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Crim
Did Jefferson ask congress for permission to send the marines to Tripoli?

Nope.


Actually, Jefferson did get Congress's permission. Both Congress and the President probably didn't not see the necessity of actually using the two magic words “declare war”, since the Pasha of Tripoli had already declared war in the traditional Barbary Coast manner: he had the flagpole in front of the American consulate chopped down.

If Jefferson had not had Congress's permission, he would have been very embarrassed in 1805 when he had to get Congress to appropriate $60,000 to pay to the Pasha as part of the peace treaty.

34 posted on 03/21/2011 1:47:16 PM PDT by Cheburashka (Blade Runner was set in 2019. Except for the flying cars and replicants we're right on schedule.)
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To: Cheburashka

“act for the Protection of Commerce and seamen of the United States against the Tripolitan cruisers” Passed February 6, 1802

The schooner USS Enterprise defeated the 14-gun Tripolitan corsair Tripoli after a fierce but one-sided battle on August 1, 1801.

Perhaps you can tell this ignorant soul which happend first?

Thanks.


35 posted on 03/21/2011 2:02:09 PM PDT by Crim
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To: Crim

So that means this falls under the Libya Is Different clause of the Constitution? What article and section? Jefferson was chasing pirates, who were menacing US merchant ships. Here, US citizens are not in danger. There is no vital US interest at stake here. The US has enough on its plate on two other fronts, Afghanistan and Iraq. If the US is getting into the business of fighting evil tyrants whenever they do some dastardly deed that the media notices, this will be a long 1.75 years.


36 posted on 03/21/2011 3:25:02 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Nachum

“Definition of HYPOCRITE

1
: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion

2
: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings
— hypocrite adjective “

That about sums it up.


37 posted on 03/21/2011 3:44:38 PM PDT by APatientMan (Pick a side)
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To: Crim
I refer you to Six Frigates, by Ian W. Toll, W. W. Norton & Company, New York, copyright 2006, pages 168-169, for a more complete explanation of what happened. My stenographic skills are modest. But the short version, in (partly) my words:

On May 15, 1801, the cabinet met and Jefferson put two questions to them.

1) Shall a squadron be sent to the Mediterranean?

2) What shall be the object of the cruise?

Answers:

1) Yes.

2) (The words following in quotation marks are in quotation marks in Toll.) The cabinet decided in favor of sending the frigates with orders “to superintend the safety of our commerce, and to exercise our seamen in nautical duties.” It would be characterized as a “squadron of observation”, with peaceful intentions. However, if it was discovered that Tripoli was waging war with the United States, the squadron would be authorized to retaliate against Tripolitanian ships and even to attack Tripoli itself.

Of course, as I said, when they arrived in the Med Tripoli was at war with the United States.

In those days Congress met only for a short part of the year and adjourned until the next year. Probably Congress was next in session around the beginning of February, 1802. But I must admit I do not know that for a fact.

I trust this makes the situation clear.

38 posted on 03/21/2011 4:30:20 PM PDT by Cheburashka (Blade Runner was set in 2019. Except for the flying cars and replicants we're right on schedule.)
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To: Crim
Additional information:

The public statutes at large of the United States of America, Volume 1

http://books.google.com/books?id=KZU_AAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA12&lpg=RA1-PA12&dq=adjournment+1801&source=bl&ots=0P0BhF6Hhj&sig=SHrQewf5suaQ2HVxNHEnHCy8skw&hl=en&ei=EvOHTcj0DsaNrQHA-tmNDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CEIQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=adjournment%201801&f=false

Second session of the Sixth Congress - November 17, 1800 to March 3, 1801.

First session of the Seventh Congress - December 7, 1801 to May 3, 1802.

39 posted on 03/21/2011 6:20:04 PM PDT by Cheburashka (Blade Runner was set in 2019. Except for the flying cars and replicants we're right on schedule.)
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To: Nachum

Now Biden is channeling framers.


40 posted on 03/21/2011 6:50:16 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: pgkdan

Has anyone heard from Biden on our involvement in Libya? He’s probably being told not to talk about it. Maybe he’d accidentally say the same thing by ‘accident’. Boy, that would be good.


41 posted on 03/21/2011 7:22:55 PM PDT by HollyB
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To: Crim

>Did Jefferson ask congress for permission to send the marines to Tripoli?
>
>Nope.

Just because Congress has not declared war against someone does not preclude that someone from declaring war on us; the Pirates of Tripoli were engaged in acts of war against us thereby “declaring war” through their actions.


42 posted on 03/21/2011 9:44:25 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Crim

>>“A stupid and pointless question. You should have given up several posts ago. You are in over your head”
>
...
>
>So I take it that you are OK with keeping the land west of the mississippi...even though you feel it’s purchase was unconstitutional...

Not all of them; to wit Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada & California were “spoils of war”* from Mexico.

* Not exactly, Mexico sold them to us in order to appease us so that we wouldn’t invade, conquer, and eradicate them as-a-nation. IIRC, we occupied Mexico City for a time.


43 posted on 03/21/2011 9:51:15 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: rarestia
I swear this must be how it felt to be an underling at Enron or some other company where the CEO is a complete buffoon and everyone knows it.

Actually, I've heard and read that it wasn't like that at Enron .... CEO Ken Lay and his successor Jeff Skilling and their catamitizing CFO (who was the one who got all the gays in the company quasi-marital benefits, from which nonmarried het couples of course were disqualified) were all, all "the smartest guys in the room" ..... actually, the guy who claimed to be overworked who bailed in 1999 or so, was the smartest guy in the room -- he took nine figures with him when he left the not-yet-sinking ship.

So they were all smart, and ruthless, and self-privileging .... but it was also true, that they collected under them a workforce of professionals by and large of whom it could be said that butter would not melt in their mouths. Very, very cool, impersonal people, and not very likeable. Or so I've heard, from people I knew there ... and something I learned about someone I dated who worked there. Frosty girl ....

44 posted on 03/22/2011 2:18:47 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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