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Behind the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire
Fox Business ^ | March 23, 2011 | By Elizabeth MacDonald

Posted on 03/23/2011 8:57:11 AM PDT by US Navy Vet

This column is based on eyewitness accounts, trial transcripts, testimony, and information from the New York City Fire Dept. and the New York Historical Society.

It is the harrowingly small amount of sidewalk that may hit you when you stand in front of the building that housed the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory, where 100 years ago this March 25, 146 garment workers -- 129 women, 17 men -- perished in a murderous fire that ranks as one of the worst this nation has ever known.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxbusiness.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; US: New York
KEYWORDS: goonions; goonionthugs; trianglefire; unions
This was when in our Nation's History Unions were needed. Not now.
1 posted on 03/23/2011 8:57:14 AM PDT by US Navy Vet
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To: US Navy Vet

I always heard that it was the union people who started the fire.


2 posted on 03/23/2011 9:00:55 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both)
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To: US Navy Vet

self ping


3 posted on 03/23/2011 9:01:24 AM PDT by Outlaw Woman
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To: US Navy Vet

HBO has a biased story on this. Most of it is about how unions are the answer to everything.


4 posted on 03/23/2011 9:02:50 AM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: US Navy Vet

So who do we blame for the Boston Molasses Disaster ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Molasses_Disaster

Willy Wonka?


5 posted on 03/23/2011 9:05:26 AM PDT by WOBBLY BOB ( "I don't want the majority if we don't stand for something"- Jim Demint)
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To: US Navy Vet

So who do we blame for the Boston Molasses Disaster ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Molasses_Disaster

Willy Wonka?


6 posted on 03/23/2011 9:05:34 AM PDT by WOBBLY BOB ( "I don't want the majority if we don't stand for something"- Jim Demint)
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To: BenLurkin

The original “Reichstag Fire.”


7 posted on 03/23/2011 9:06:49 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: WOBBLY BOB
So who do we blame for the Boston Molasses Disaster ?

A very good case can be made that if it were not for prohibition removing their ability to market their product the American Industrial Alcohol Company wouldn't have pushed production beyond capacity and thus overloaded the tank.


&^%$ Progressives

8 posted on 03/23/2011 9:13:35 AM PDT by Cowman (How can the IRS seize property without a warrant if the 4th amendment still stands?)
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To: US Navy Vet
This tragedy could just as easily serve as an object lesson about Tammany Hall corruption as management/labor relations.

But of course it seldom is looked at from that angle.

9 posted on 03/23/2011 9:15:40 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: US Navy Vet

To the unions this was a watershed moment for them and if they were faced with the same thing today they’d probably do everything in their power to make sure it happened.


10 posted on 03/23/2011 9:20:11 AM PDT by MeganC (NO WAR FOR OIL! ........except when a Democrat's in charge.)
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To: BenLurkin

Oh, my God. This is really taking the cake. Do you honestly think there were no sweat shops in New York City at that time??! And no bad bosses who locked the doors on their employees?! Maybe you should call this into one of Michael Medved’s “Conspiracy Theory” shows.


11 posted on 03/23/2011 9:20:35 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: US Navy Vet
Cornell University website has a very good Remembrance of the tragedy.
There's a also a monument in Evergreens Cemetery, Brooklyn which I've visited.
My gg-grandparents are buried nearby.

12 posted on 03/23/2011 9:20:35 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: WOBBLY BOB; US Navy Vet

And let’s not forget the Babbs Switch fire in Oklahoma,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbs_Switch_fire


13 posted on 03/23/2011 9:23:55 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Visit the TOMMY FRANKS MILITARY MUSEUM in HOBART, OK. I did, well worth it!)
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To: dfwgator
"A gun is a tool, Marion, no better or no worse than any other tool, an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that." -- Shane

Capitalism is a tool a good tool that's created a good life for many. But like any tool its only as good or bad as the men using it. Just because someone is a Capitalist or something is Capitalist doesn't necessarily make it right. Something for the 'laissez-faire' FReeper Capitalist should bear in mind.
14 posted on 03/23/2011 9:24:30 AM PDT by Kartographer (".. we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

I suppose what you say goes equally for unions.


15 posted on 03/23/2011 9:27:14 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: US Navy Vet

Unions were needed then; but then unions became corrupt and crooked, run by thugs and criminals who love money even more than the original sweat shop owners did.


16 posted on 03/23/2011 9:28:07 AM PDT by Twinkie ( PEACE)
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To: dfwgator

Agreed. The best tool can be used for cross purposes. The axe use to build a cabin can just as easily be used to kill.


17 posted on 03/23/2011 9:30:36 AM PDT by Kartographer (".. we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.")
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To: MeganC
To the unions this was a watershed moment for them and if they were faced with the same thing today they’d probably do everything in their power to make sure it happened.

Of course today the Wisconsin State Capitol would probably have to catch fire...
18 posted on 03/23/2011 9:30:52 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Kartographer

Of course it’s also easier to put a capitalist out of business, than a union.


19 posted on 03/23/2011 9:32:06 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Kartographer

I love the quote from Shane! Good for you!

What is it with some Freepers? Now we have Triangle Shirtwaist Factory deniers!

Some of you non-NYers should know that there are still endless amounts of sweatshops in Chinatown. In Newark, NJ, sweatshop workers slaved in the worst slums until the early 1990s. This is the dark side of my part of the world - nothing to be proud of and something not to be denied.


20 posted on 03/23/2011 9:37:55 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: Twinkie
For some historical perspective

http://www.newsrealblog.com/2011/03/19/top-six-violent-acts-committed-by-unions-1/

21 posted on 03/23/2011 9:45:57 AM PDT by Cowman (How can the IRS seize property without a warrant if the 4th amendment still stands?)
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To: miss marmelstein
Do you honestly think there were no sweat shops in New York City at that time??! And no bad bosses who locked the doors on their employees?!

I don't recall weighing in on either of those questions. Perhaps you are thinking of another poster.

22 posted on 03/23/2011 9:50:06 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both)
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To: US Navy Vet
So why the horrific, unnecessary loss of life? Because it was cheaper to buy fire insurance policies than invest money on fire prevention.

This might have been the case at the time, but nowadays having a big insurance policy simply gives the insurance company an enormous incentive to be far more strict about building safety than even the local building inspector might be.

23 posted on 03/23/2011 10:03:04 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: US Navy Vet
This was when in our Nation's History Unions were needed. Not now.

My daughter made a similar comment recently, after something on the news about what was going on in Wisconsin. she actually brought up the Triangle fire and asked me if I remembered when she did a report on a book about it.

My daughter is 12.

24 posted on 03/23/2011 10:06:29 AM PDT by Gabz (Democrats for Voldemort.)
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To: BenLurkin

Do you think some union lit the fire? You implied it. If not, I apologize.

The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire is literally burned into the souls of most NYers - just like 9/11 and the Slocum. It happened because the owners had locked the doors on the employees (on the 9th floor, I believe). Interestingly, one of the owners did it again in 1913 and was rearrested!


25 posted on 03/23/2011 10:06:40 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: Cowman

No don’t that they where many violent acts committed by both sides. Those acts you reference in your post and things like the Ludlow Massacre were all to common.


26 posted on 03/23/2011 10:10:31 AM PDT by Kartographer (".. we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.")
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To: US Navy Vet

My grandparents were the victims of attempted murder by the CIO, after my grandfather was elected the first and only president of the CIOA local at RCA. RCA closed the plant after the attempt on my grandfather’s life and moved to the mid-west, without the CIO.

The violence by the unions against their own members was/is very common.


27 posted on 03/23/2011 10:15:07 AM PDT by Eva
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To: Buckeye McFrog
Of course today the Wisconsin State Capitol would probably have to catch fire...

Well hey...the firemen are already on the scene so it would work out.

28 posted on 03/23/2011 10:22:12 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Alberta's Child; US Navy Vet

Here is an article from NFPA on the fire and what the building codes were at the time.

http://www.nfpa.org/itemdetailjournal.asp?categoryID=2157&itemID=50572

Regarding insurance companies, Factory Mutual Insurance has its own Approvals department that must approve all equipment being used for fire prevention. You can’t get their insurance unless you meet their requirements.

It and the UL is also being required by Authorities Having Jurisdiction when they do Certificate of Occupancy inspections. This is US and more and more worldwide.

http://www.fmglobal.com/page.aspx?id=50000000
http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/industries/buildingmaterials/fire/


29 posted on 03/23/2011 10:26:20 AM PDT by Gvl_M3
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To: miss marmelstein

What I said was that I always heard that it was the union people who started the fire.


30 posted on 03/23/2011 10:32:05 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both)
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To: Eva
my grandfather was elected the first and only president of the CIOA local
In 1880 NYC, my gg-grandfather shared a tenement with the cigar making Gompers family, including Samuel, who a few years later founded the AFL.
My gg-GF was a cooper and belonged to the Coopers International Union.
I often wonder if they enjoyed a cigar and a cold one while discussing politics.
31 posted on 03/23/2011 10:42:53 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: BenLurkin; miss marmelstein
I wonder how many fights have started with those words?

"What I said was that I always heard that...."

"I've heard that you're a low-down Yankee liar."
Shane

32 posted on 03/23/2011 11:19:17 AM PDT by Kartographer (".. we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.")
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To: oh8eleven

Very, very interesting! The writer and director Moss Hart always said his grandfather was Gompers co-hort (until they broke up over a fight about which one would carry their shared briefcase!) I have a photo on the wall of my great grandfather seated before his Joiner Union headquarters. Straight out of a Tree Grows In Brooklyn!

The early Labor Movement is quite fascinating. Nothing like today’s goons and thugs.


33 posted on 03/23/2011 11:25:50 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: BenLurkin

I apologize!

But in this case the Union was innocent. It really was the bosses who acted very badly.


34 posted on 03/23/2011 11:27:44 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: miss marmelstein
Union was innocent?

I suppose it is possible that the owner (and not a union thug) threw the burning cigarette into the scrap bin — but it's not very likely

35 posted on 03/23/2011 11:57:54 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both)
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To: Kartographer

See post 35.


36 posted on 03/23/2011 11:59:04 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both)
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To: BenLurkin

I’ve heard that it was the CIA that brought down the Two Towers.
I’ve heard that Jews perform sacrifices of Christian babies.
I’ve heard that men never landed on the moon.
I’ve heard that the Nazis didn’t kill millions of Jews
I’ve heard that Aids was created by the government to kill blacks.
I’ve heard that Swine Flu was created to kill muslims.
And so on........

Funny the things you hear.


37 posted on 03/23/2011 12:21:53 PM PDT by Kartographer (".. we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.")
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To: BenLurkin

So you obviously believe it was a Union member who started the fire! Why didn’t you say that when I first asked you?

Fires do happen. But the fact is the owners had locked some of the doors of the building, escaped with their own lives, and left the girls on the 9th floor to suffer the awful consequences. People can be evil on both sides of this issue. In this case, it was management, not the union. Why is that so difficult for some people to understand?


38 posted on 03/23/2011 12:53:13 PM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: Kartographer

Add...and the Ladies Garment Workers Union started the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire.


39 posted on 03/23/2011 12:55:30 PM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: miss marmelstein
Straight out of a Tree Grows In Brooklyn!
A favorite of mine, although it doesn't help the Irish/alcohol image very much.

The early Labor Movement is quite fascinating. Nothing like today’s goons and thugs.
There truly was a need for unions at one time in this country ... no child labor laws, 12-18 hour days, sweatshop conditions, etc. Today it's all about greed and power.
40 posted on 03/23/2011 12:57:16 PM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: oh8eleven

Did you know that Betty Smith - the author of A Tree Grows in Brooklyn was completely of German descent? No Irish blood at all but she loved to write about them. I’ve written fan letters to her daughter - and she’s always responded very kindly.

You simply can’t compare the creepy Wisconsin agitators with some of the Labor activists of the past. They have more in common with the thugs of “On the Waterfront.” It truly was a terrible world for the poor immigrants of early 20th century NY. Some of my family suffered under those awful conditions.


41 posted on 03/23/2011 1:02:32 PM PDT by miss marmelstein
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