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For-profit colleges leave many with debt but no jobs
Tampa Bay Online ^ | March 27, 2011 | LINDSAY PETERSON

Posted on 03/29/2011 9:46:30 PM PDT by TheDingoAteMyBaby

TAMPA - Westwood College representatives questioned Becky Loring about her hopes for the future. And when she wavered — worried about whether she could afford the $45,000 program — the recruiter used Loring's own words to seal the deal.

"If you don't do this," she recalled the representative saying, "you're never going to get what you've always wanted."

Loring, 32, now owes the government and private lenders more than $100,000. Working in sales, she is far from the graphic design job she studied for, barely able to make her college loan interest payments.

"When I think about it, I just feel nauseated," she said. "How did I let this happen?"

Students such as Loring are borrowing billions from the government every year to attend for-profit career colleges, where enrollment nationwide has tripled in 10 years.

Loring is working with her lenders to keep from defaulting, but she's on the edge, she said.

Meanwhile, tens of thousands of others have gone over, a recent federal report showed.

Of the career college students whose federal loans came due in 2008, nearly 25 percent quit making payments in the three years that followed. Taxpayers are ultimately responsible for paying off bad federal loans.

Default rates for some local colleges were even higher. The report showed Everest University in Largo with a three-year default rate of more than 41 percent. The Tampa branches of ITT Technical Institute and Concorde Career Institute were at nearly 30 percent.

By comparison, the rate for private nonprofit colleges and universities was 8 percent. For public institutions, it was 11 percent.

People have poured into the for-profit colleges in the past few years on federal student loans, searching for new careers in a weak and changing economy. But as the loan defaults rise, government regulators are trying to rein in the rapidly expanding schools — and facing protests from the industry.

People who are close to the issue disagree about what a high default rate means.

To critics of the for-profit college industry, it's a sign of a poor-quality school that will say anything to snag new students, manipulating their hopes and shading the truth about accreditation and job prospects.

To industry defenders, it shows these schools open their doors to people who have trouble in traditional colleges, who are often poor and struggle to pay their bills, especially during a recession.

The report on default rates is preliminary. Congress established the calculation in 2008, saying colleges with loan default rates of 30 percent and above for three years would risk losing their federal aid eligibility beginning in 2014.

Students are required to start paying back loans after they graduate, though many appeal to lenders to delay repayment. The recent report looked at students with repayment dates starting in 2008 and counted those who defaulted on those payments over the next three years. The number was more than 457,000.

Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, chairman of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, held hearings last year into what taxpayers get back from the billions the government gives to for-profit colleges. The figure was nearly $30 billion last year.

For-profits enroll about 11 percent of all college students but account for about 45 percent of all student loan defaults.

"Serious questions have to be raised about the taxpayer investment in these companies," Harkin said.

Nationwide enrollment in for-profit colleges is about 1.8 million students.

A stretch of Dr. Martin Luther King Boulevard west of Interstate 75 tells the story. On one corner is Rasmussen College. A mile west is a branch of Southwest Florida College, next to a branch of Everest University.

Complaints have grown with the numbers. Witnesses at Harkin's hearings last year told of colleges exaggerating job prospects, fudging financial-aid applications and leaving graduates with heavy debt and few opportunities.

In October, the U.S. Department of Education released new industry regulations scheduled to go into effect in July. A trade group has gone to court to stop them.

The dozens of changes include requirements to:

•Cease paying admissions representatives on the basis of how many students they enroll.

•Provide easy-to-find job placement statistics by program, using methods verified by an outside agency.

•Require states to regulate all colleges with any students in the state, regardless of whether they have a branch or employees in the state.

For-profit representatives aren't happy with how the rules came about.

It was "the most biased process I have ever seen," said Kathy Mizereck, executive director of the Florida Association of Postsecondary Schools and Colleges. The group's 900 for-profit schools and colleges have about 370,000 students.

The Harkin hearings were stacked with opponents of the for-profit college industry, she said. And bad things happen in every school, she said.

"I got a call the other day about a community college student who had $90,000 in debt and had nothing to show for it."

The most controversial proposal to emerge last year, the so-called gainful employment rule, has yet to be released in final form.

It's a process intended to ensure students can repay their loans, taking into account the students' income, debt load and potential employment. The complex calculation also includes the loan repayment rate by students from each college.

A low score could limit a college's federal loan eligibility.

The industry is lobbying hard to modify the final rule, which is expected to come out any day.

"We've been told there's going to be a very, very big revision," said Kent Jenkins, vice president of the Everest College parent company, Corinthian Colleges, based in Santa Ana, Calif.

Florida has imposed its own new rules, said Samuel Ferguson, executive director of the Commission for Independent Education, which monitors for-profit colleges.

Admissions representatives, for instance, have to go through a training program in what they can and can't say to prospective students, he said.

But students also have a responsibility to ensure that a program is accredited and meets their needs, he said.

Cassandra Perry, 24, learned her lesson when she attended ITT in Virginia and couldn't get other colleges to accept the credits she earned there, she said.

After she and her husband moved to the Tampa area, she chose the University of Phoenix, partly because it had a more widely accepted accreditation.

She worked during the day and went to class at night.

"My classes were small. It's like we were a family," she said. "This has worked out perfectly for me."

Graduating in June with a bachelor's degree in psychology, she has applied to the University of South Florida's graduate program.

It's selective, so she doesn't know if she will make it, but she's counting on USF accepting her University of Phoenix degree, she said.

Becky Loring thought she did her homework when she picked Westwood when she lived in Seattle in 2006.

The admissions representative assured her Westwood, owned by Alta Colleges Inc., based in Denver, Colo., was accredited by a national agency recognized by the U.S. Department of Education.

Loring had always loved design and liked the description of Westwood's visual communications program, which she could complete online.

But the $45,000 price tag made her nervous.

She said the admissions director told her not to worry, that she would make at least $70,000 a year no matter where she lived because she could easily work from home.

Loring got a federal loan for $60,000, but that wasn't enough to cover her college costs and living expenses, she was told, so Westwood helped her apply for private loans.

The school refused to accept several credits from an online college she attended earlier, contrary to what the Westwood representative had told her.

Her costs continued to rise when she had to buy expensive equipment and software, and pay online fees, so she borrowed more money and pushed on, committed to finishing.

She moved to Sarasota and graduated from Westwood in 2009 with mostly A's. She built what she thought was a solid portfolio, including fliers, brochures and booklets with logos and other elements she had designed.

"I was so excited," she said. "I did not take advantage of my education in high school, so in college I was determined to apply myself and do my absolute best."

She put out dozens of résumés, she said. No response.

Maybe she needed more education, she thought. But when she began looking into the state universities, she realized she was in trouble. Admissions representatives told her the Westwood degree didn't count for them.

Though Westwood was accredited, it wasn't accredited by an agency they recognized.

"I had a clear path and I thought I knew where I was headed," Loring said. "Now it's like I'm swimming in murky waters."

She contacted Tampa law firm James, Hoyer, Newcomer, Smiljanich & Yanchunis after seeing a television news report about problems at Westwood. The firm is suing Westwood.

A Westwood spokeswoman, Emily Port, questioned Loring's assertion that she was told she would make $70,000 a year.

A company website shows that 77 percent of its visual communications graduates are employed in their field of study, but the average reported salary is $35,000 a year.

Port also said the company informs students about program costs and the risk that not all colleges will accept Westwood's credits.

Loring stands by her recollection of the assurances she received regarding credit transfers and job prospects, but she blames herself for believing them.

She is one of nearly 1,200 students who have contacted James, Hoyer with complaints about Westwood. Most of them are struggling with tens of thousands of dollars of debt, said attorney Jonathan Cohen.

The firm also has received hundreds of complaints about other for-profit colleges. Their stories are often the same.

"They start out so proud and end up buried in debt with a piece of paper that doesn't mean anything," Cohen said.

More than 180 Florida students have complained to the state attorney general about their experiences at for-profit colleges.

"I was counting on a degree to help with a promotion in my career and I got nothing but debt," wrote Kimberly Bramblett of Crawfordville about her experience with a Kaplan online program.

"Please help me," wrote Janet Ayala, who borrowed $8,000 for the medical assistant program at Everest in Lakeland and can't find a job. She was wary of taking on the debt, she said, but Everest representatives were persistent, calling her every day at one point.

Jenkins said Corinthian has become more cautious about enrollments. It has stopped accepting students who don't have a high school diploma, and its short-term default rate is declining.

It was not an easy decision to start saying no, he said.

"These are students who have nowhere else to go."


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: colleges; education; forprofit; universities
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1 posted on 03/29/2011 9:46:33 PM PDT by TheDingoAteMyBaby
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby

Same goes for traditional colleges - so whats the diff ???


2 posted on 03/29/2011 9:49:31 PM PDT by Lmo56 (If ya wanna run with the big dawgs - ya gotta learn to piss in the tall grass ...</i><p>)
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To: Lmo56
Same goes for traditional colleges - so whats the diff ???

Both churn out their fair share of expensive, worthless degrees, but for-profit colleges (for the most part) aren't a slush fund for Democrats, so they get attacked in the media.

3 posted on 03/29/2011 9:54:37 PM PDT by WeatherGuy
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To: Lmo56
Big "diff"-- if you use your head for something besides a hat rack.
4 posted on 03/29/2011 9:57:30 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: WeatherGuy

And they aren’t tax money sinks either.


5 posted on 03/29/2011 10:00:13 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
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To: Lmo56

I would be concerned that employers are inclined to disregard graduates of for-profit schools, only based on comments I’ve heard from managers.


6 posted on 03/29/2011 10:04:39 PM PDT by TheDingoAteMyBaby
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To: Lmo56

“Same goes for traditional colleges - so whats the diff ???”

Accredited schools have to meet certain standards, which are not so high these days, but are MUCH HIGHER than high schools. So, if you hire someone with a college degree, chances are they can read and sign their name.

For-profit schools simply are not looked at as real, by employers, since they essentially police themselves and they simply haven’t convinced companies that they have real standards...even if they do.

Now, these for-profit schools could go to those same accreditation agencies and apply to get accredited...but they don’t seem to want to do that - not sure why.


7 posted on 03/29/2011 10:06:15 PM PDT by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby; All

A simple rule about higher education:

If a school advertises during the Jerry Springer Show....it is not a good school.

I hate that the taxpayer has to foot the bad loans. Make the for-profit schools eat the loans...and stop the welfare program for the for-profit schools


8 posted on 03/29/2011 10:06:20 PM PDT by UCFRoadWarrior (No, supporting Communist China is not a "conservative idea".)
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To: hinckley buzzard
Quite so.

9 posted on 03/29/2011 10:06:42 PM PDT by I see my hands (Embrace misanthropy)
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To: Lmo56; WeatherGuy
For-profits enroll about 11 percent of all college students but account for about 45 percent of all student loan defaults.

That's the difference. Eleven percent of the loans make up almost half the defaults. Quite a few of these outfits are scam operations. I've seen some of their tactics up close.

10 posted on 03/29/2011 10:06:49 PM PDT by Richard Kimball (Proud member of the Keepers Of Odd Knowledge (KOOK))
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To: Lmo56
The loan default rate is the difference. The rate appears to be 2 to 3 times as high for the "for profit schools", although the article does not quite articulate it (I have to extrapolate from data given and use other sources.)

This of course, is not a surprise. If the student had the smarts to get into a higher caliber school, they would be more employable when they left. The issue is as much about the caliber of graduate as it is about the quality of education.

11 posted on 03/29/2011 10:11:02 PM PDT by mlocher (Is it time to cash in before I am taxed out?)
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby

Government schools leave the entire Nation in debt with no prospect of jobs!


12 posted on 03/29/2011 10:21:32 PM PDT by sjmjax (Politicans are like bananas - they start out green, turn yellow, then rot.)
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To: mlocher

It is already a fact that most college grads go back home to live, with 80% of them without a job. So, the loan default it higher with the “private for profit schools”?

The “non profit” colleges aren’t doing so great either.

The default rate is a red herring.

College is a government backed bubble. It is going to burst.


13 posted on 03/29/2011 10:23:59 PM PDT by TruthConquers ( Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby

All colleges are for profit these days. There is no bigger racket than higher ed. The taxpayers should not be funding any of them.


14 posted on 03/29/2011 10:25:11 PM PDT by Poison Pill
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby

Propaganda from the democrat party’s unionized collge staff.


15 posted on 03/29/2011 10:25:55 PM PDT by FormerACLUmember (When the past no longer illuminates the future, the spirit walks in darkness.)
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To: sjmjax

The Government also NOW OWNS all student loans.

They will get their money back, regardless with “school” the loan was for.

The loans aren’t dischargable in bankruptcy. In fact, they now will fall unto any children the borrow has, until it is ALL paid back.


16 posted on 03/29/2011 10:26:50 PM PDT by TruthConquers ( Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby

I swear this is true:

Hedge fund con artists are shorting for profit education while bribing democrat party hacks to issue criticism against the industry.

Reference:

http://www.cappsonline.org/1481/harkin-orchestrated-gao-study-on-for-profit-colleges-was-hatchet-job/


17 posted on 03/29/2011 10:30:12 PM PDT by FormerACLUmember (When the past no longer illuminates the future, the spirit walks in darkness.)
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To: TruthConquers
they now will fall unto any children the borrow has, until it is ALL paid back.

Where did you get that idea?

18 posted on 03/29/2011 10:32:18 PM PDT by Poison Pill
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby
...she would make at least $70,000 a year no matter where she lived because she could easily work from home.

That sounds like fraud.

19 posted on 03/29/2011 10:36:00 PM PDT by Libloather (The epitome of civility.)
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To: TruthConquers
The loans aren’t dischargable in bankruptcy. In fact, they now will fall unto any children the borrow has, until it is ALL paid back.

You are correct that federal student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy absent a showing of hardship, which is very difficult standard to meet.

However, I know of no law that binds the borrower's children unless they actually co-sign the loan (assuming they are of age to do so). Can you cite a source for that proposition?

20 posted on 03/29/2011 10:37:07 PM PDT by Huntress ("Politicians exploit economic illiteracy." --Walter Williams)
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To: mlocher

I don’t understand why a student can’t attend a regular community college for two years and then transfer to the state school. Normally if you complete the community college with decent grades (2.0), the state school will accept you pretty “automatically”. However, you would probably have to attend one of the satellite schools throughout the states and perhaps not main campus. But it still seems smarter to do than what these folks have been doing.


21 posted on 03/29/2011 10:38:16 PM PDT by napscoordinator
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To: Lmo56
The easy way to solve this mess would be to privatize all student loans. Hillsdale College does not allow their students to take out federal loans. Their graduates have excellent job placement records because the college actually teaches them something.

If all student loans were privatized, people majoring in marketable degrees like nursing and engineering would be paying about 3%. People majoring in women's studies and similar fluff would be paying about 30%. The market would build in the risk of default according to the value of the degree and price the loans accordingly.

22 posted on 03/29/2011 10:45:04 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Huntress

I don’t have the source. I have read it here from other Freepers whose children have been caught up in loans. One her daughter is dying, they took her house, but the mom states that this is the case. Another is a Freeper whose mom got a loan when he was 17. His mom dies many years ago. This year the IRS took his refund to pay for his mom’s loan.

Apparently, death does not discharge the obligation.

If you find it, it would be good to have. But I find it hard to think more than one person here would just dream this stuff up.


23 posted on 03/29/2011 10:47:51 PM PDT by TruthConquers ( Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: Poison Pill

See post #23


24 posted on 03/29/2011 10:49:39 PM PDT by TruthConquers ( Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: UCFRoadWarrior

The law-school scam is far bigger than anything these for-profits could dream of. Tuition approaching 40k a year at third tier schools and lies by nearly everyone of the law schools about salary and employment percentage.

Also, my understanding of my loans (grad plus loans) is that unless I die, the only way out is repayment, so I do not know what these “defaults” are.


25 posted on 03/29/2011 11:00:26 PM PDT by bone52
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby

Colleges, by and large, are a scam. You place an overworked & underpaid TA in front of a bunch of dull undergrads, while some faculty talks and talks about a topic that he has recycled from years past.

Each undergrad is worth 10’s of thousands of $$ in tuition, per year, a number the administrative staff can multiply by as many as the admissions committee allows them to. Nothing tangible is produced, at the undergraduate level.


26 posted on 03/29/2011 11:02:23 PM PDT by belzu2010
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To: TruthConquers

Your post 16: “In fact, they now will fall unto any children the borrow[er] has, until it is ALL paid back.” implies that the borrower’s children are liable for their parent’s student loan. That is not correct.

Also, a parent is not responsible for a child’s student loans unless the parent cosigned for the loan.


27 posted on 03/29/2011 11:03:43 PM PDT by iowamark
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby

“she is far from the graphic design job she studied for”

Ok there are somethings you can learn online UOP style and some you can not. Graphic Design, creative type courses=fail...

Besides fields like ‘graphic design’ are as useful as majoring in piano. Yes there are jobs out there but few and far between.

If I ever get bumped out of the IT space by all the out sourcers and need to ‘re-tool’ I will look into education, a heath care field, or a trade (pipe fitting)... None of them get you rich but its usually doable to find a job..

There is little doubt that these schools (like UOP) are nothing but paper factories and that, in and of itself, is a bit scummy. But it’s not illegal..

Chances are for the same amount of money this Girl could have enrolled part time in a local community college or university and gotten a better education for less.


28 posted on 03/29/2011 11:03:54 PM PDT by N3WBI3 (Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari)
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby

Easy Answer: Make universities with a default rate of more than 15% over three years co-sign for loans until they fix the issue..

Let’s put UOP on the hook for taking students who have no business working toward a masters..


29 posted on 03/29/2011 11:08:09 PM PDT by N3WBI3 (Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari)
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby
I would be concerned that employers are inclined to disregard graduates of for-profit schools, only based on comments I’ve heard from managers.

Tell us about it.
30 posted on 03/29/2011 11:11:04 PM PDT by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the occupation media. There are Wars and Rumors of War.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

They aren’t? A huge % of their loans end up falling on the tax payers!

HTR I did one year of UOP when it was on the company dime... It was a joke! As soon as I left for a company which did not pay I hug it up.

Most of these places *especially the online ones* are scams. And if they want to scam people for a piece of paper thats fine but no federal student loans should go out to places like this.

Let them self fund or co-sign private loans for their students.


31 posted on 03/29/2011 11:13:47 PM PDT by N3WBI3 (Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari)
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby

They write this as if this only happens with for-profit vocational colleges.

Every democrat is out there (and some republicans) talking as if college is a right, and it will solve everyones problems.

I know a lot of people that are in debt to plain old liberal arts colleges, including state ones.

The problem is our entire educational system is broken. College has been taken out of the place it should be (as a place to truly educate) into some sort of cure-all for an unhappy life.


32 posted on 03/29/2011 11:15:16 PM PDT by I still care (I miss my friends, bagels, and the NYC skyline - but not the taxes. I love the South.)
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To: Vigilanteman

Also by privatizing loans deals can be worked out.

Being in hock for a student loan is worse than being in hock to the IRS. They never let you off the hook.


33 posted on 03/29/2011 11:19:21 PM PDT by I still care (I miss my friends, bagels, and the NYC skyline - but not the taxes. I love the South.)
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To: N3WBI3
“Besides fields like ‘graphic design’ are as useful as majoring in piano.”

Have to disagree with you there, at least in the degree is from a good school like Rhode Island School of Design, Art Center, or a good public school. Ad agencies, design firms, architects, industrial design consultants, and companies that design in house all need graphic designers. If my business continues to pick up I'll need to hire one. Not sure how great the job market is right now for recent grads, but overall your comparison= fail!

34 posted on 03/29/2011 11:29:08 PM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: N3WBI3

I remember being a computer science student, sitting in C++ class, thinking, “gonna work hard, make money, own a house”...whoops, looks like those programming jobs went overseas!

Along with everything else. Companies figured out they could get away with murder in China/India/Mexico, so they expanded there, downsized here.

Such heroes.


35 posted on 03/29/2011 11:30:46 PM PDT by Soothesayer9
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby

If we got the government out of the loan guarantee business this problem would be solved.

Lenders would only lend if they had a reasonable chance of being paid back.

“Students” with poor prospects would have a hard time getting a loan. They’d have to forego their crummy college or save up to go.

“Universities” that don’t give a quality, marketable degree would rapidly fold.


36 posted on 03/29/2011 11:34:11 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby

So, whose the “predatory lender” now, eh> Why it’s the education industry.


37 posted on 03/29/2011 11:52:34 PM PDT by OrangeHoof (Washington, we Texans want a divorce!)
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To: UCFRoadWarrior

This article has what I think are a few misrepresentations. One is that taxpayers get stuck with the bad loans, at least for the federal student loan program. That was the case for a very long time, but within the past 10 years or so, the law was changed so that those students will, at some point in their lives, have to pay them back. They are loans that do not go away. The govt will collect if they have to garnish any income the student makes.

I also found the industry rep’s story about a community college student having $90K in loans unbelievable. That is $45K/year for a 2 year program? Most community colleges charge @ $100/credit. Few students carry more than 15 or maybe 18 credits in a semester. So, let’s say a student is carrying 18 credits for three semesters, and let’s say s/he attends a more expensive community college that charges $150/credit. That’s $8100. Throw in $1200/semester for books and another $1K for activity fees. You’re up to $12,700. But the govt is lending this student $45K ?? That’s a pretty healthy amount left over for living expenses.

I think there ARE restrictions on how much the govt will lend a student, based on the school’s tuition and costs. They also require that the studies be concluded within X amt of tim, something like 150% of the time it takes under ideal conditions (full time, no dropping classes, changing majors, etc). So that $90K debt from community college story just doesn’t add up.

Given the offerings at Community Colleges, I can’t imagine why a student would go to one of these expensive for-profit programs in any case. At least our community colleges offer an enormously broad program of studies. And in VA, and most other states I’ve heard of, the state universities’ 4 year schools will accept a graduate of the community college, with certain requirements that the four year college sets. Some of the 4 year school require a higher GPA than others; some are fussier about which credits they will transfer, etc. But it sure sounds like a community college grad will have better prospects after completion than the students featured in the article


38 posted on 03/29/2011 11:55:32 PM PDT by EDINVA
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby

So many of the schools really are scams. Drag some student in that can barely read and help them get loans and grants. When the money runs out suddenly the “student” read “mark” has failing grades and it’s out the door with no more money, no training, no job and none on the horizon.
But the debt lives on and on and on.


39 posted on 03/30/2011 12:07:20 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby

My nephews daughter just finished her work and had a job before she graduated, starting at about 80,000 per year and they have agreed to pay her school costs after four years. It is all in what you get that degree in.


40 posted on 03/30/2011 12:10:11 AM PDT by org.whodat
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To: N3WBI3
I've worked as a graphic artist for 16 years and even with all the experience I have, most places I've applied to won't even let me in the door without that piece of paper in hand.

I was tempted to go to a for profit school to get a degree, but getting a degree for graphics just isn't worth it at this point, not for what they charge. I am currently enrolled in a cheaper (50.00 a credit) school and glad I did it that way.
I'll finally get my degree for 10% of the cost it would have if I'd have gone with ITT or any school like that.

41 posted on 03/30/2011 12:13:49 AM PDT by StayoutdaBushesWay (Every man dies, but not every man really lives.)
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To: TruthConquers
"Apparently, death does not discharge the obligation."

Unless you have sufficient assets to warrant a probate. the debt does die with you. It's SOP for bottom feeder debt collectors to illegally threaten family members for payment after the debtor dies.

42 posted on 03/30/2011 12:23:42 AM PDT by moehoward
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby

They would have been better off getting a loan to buy tools, and learn a blue-collar trade. Machinists, plumbers etc. make some serious bucks.


43 posted on 03/30/2011 1:02:08 AM PDT by roadcat
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To: roadcat
Agree. People with the correct tools and the knowledge to use them will always have a better shot at making money.

As for college I'll just add this;

I used to work for a TV station in a major market many years ago. There were appox. 15 engineers in this place making anywhere from $25-$35 1970's dollars depending on seniority, experience, etc.

My recollection is that maybe 5 of them had anything that resembled a traditional 4 year degree (in electronics. One was a music major!). The rest were either military trained, for - Profit educated (ITT, IVY Tech, correspondence schools, etc) or in some cases got their skills from electronics hobbies they had in their teens.

One came in brand new and fresh faced from an ITT program and proceeded to shoot to the top of the pile simply because he had computer training when such people could not be had.

44 posted on 03/30/2011 2:35:17 AM PDT by M.K. Borders (All I require of my government is the liberty my Grandfathers were born to.)
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To: napscoordinator

I work with a guy....retired Air Force. His 18-year old daughter came up and not only was she attending full-college but she was going the next state over, thus triggering out-of-state tuition ($25.5k a year just for tuition alone). He argued on both fronts...attend community college and attend within their state. He lost the argument via his wife.

The daughter and wife both believed that the community college effort takes away from the full effort and gives you a lesser education (community colleges are run by professors who aren’t as good as the full-up college was their argument). Plus there were these various classes which community colleges typically don’t carry compared to a full-up four-year university.

So my associate packed up and moved himself and the daughter to the next state...fifty miles from the house he owns, and he works & lives right there where the daughter is attending college. He has saved on various joint expenses and has some control over his daughter in the first year of this episode, so she’s not out partying.

I tend to believe as a minimum...a kid ought to attend the first year at a community college. What you tend to see is that a quarter of all kids going to a full-up four-year school....will mostly party and get drunk throughout the first year, and then get mostly F’s, then exit and never return to college, period. Using the local community college and making them live at home, you have some ability to monitor them and ensure they don’t do stupid things.


45 posted on 03/30/2011 2:47:05 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: bone52
"The law-school scam is far bigger than anything these for-profits could dream of...and lies by nearly everyone of the law schools about salary and employment percentage."

Those schools just consider that part of the curriculum. Techniques for post-grad application.

46 posted on 03/30/2011 3:06:21 AM PDT by Tainan (Cogito Ergo Conservitus.)
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby

WPIX NY did a report this AM on the Obozo visit to Harlem. The street, to say the least, was ugly. Signs proclaiming the non war to be more or less BS etc. And a 22 yr old male person of color with a BA degree who is FURIOUS at the president for the fact that he can “only get work in a stockroom”. I think the president is in more trouble than his sycophants in the media can get him out of.


47 posted on 03/30/2011 3:26:48 AM PDT by TalBlack ( Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: N3WBI3

The town where I teach has a small Historically Black college. Almost all of the teacher assistants at my school graduated from there & they got such a horrible education that they can’t pass the National Teacher Exam; which is why they are an assisatnt making nothing.

About 2 years ago many of these people began starting BA & masters degrees at several of these places. Unfortunately they do not have the skills to really even have a high school degree; let alone an advanced degree. Several of the older, savvier at scams people talk about how they have no intention of paying off their loans.

It is both pathetic ( for the people who don’t have the skills & are doing this) & disgusting( for the people using the system & recycling papers others have written)................it’s such a scam, you have no idea.


48 posted on 03/30/2011 3:31:54 AM PDT by leaning conservative (snow coming, school cancelled, yayyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: N3WBI3

The town where I teach has a small Historically Black college. Almost all of the teacher assistants at my school graduated from there & they got such a horrible education that they can’t pass the National Teacher Exam; which is why they are an assisatnt making nothing.

About 2 years ago many of these people began starting BA & masters degrees at several of these places. Unfortunately they do not have the skills to really even have a high school degree; let alone an advanced degree. Several of the older, savvier at scams people talk about how they have no intention of paying off their loans.

It is both pathetic ( for the people who don’t have the skills & are doing this) & disgusting( for the people using the system & recycling papers others have written)................it’s such a scam, you have no idea.


49 posted on 03/30/2011 3:34:45 AM PDT by leaning conservative (snow coming, school cancelled, yayyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: leaning conservative

Sorry for the double post!


50 posted on 03/30/2011 3:36:06 AM PDT by leaning conservative (snow coming, school cancelled, yayyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!)
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