Skip to comments.What divides Sunni and Shiite Muslims?
Posted on 04/02/2011 7:41:16 PM PDT by george76
Tensions and violence between Sunni and Shiite Muslims are often in the news in countries like Iraq, Pakistan and Bahrain, but why are they at daggers drawn?
swissinfo.ch: How did it come about that a Sunni minority should rule over a Shiite majority, as for example in Bahrain, where there are currently popular protests?
Arnold Hottinger: This is a matter of power which has historical roots. Bahrain has a Sunni government but the majority of the population 70 per cent - is Shiite. The example of Iraq, which also has a Shiite majority, can be easily explained in the same way.
Iraq belonged to the Ottoman Empire. The Turks were Sunnis and installed a Sunni governor in Baghdad. Later, when the British were in power in Iraq, they kept the Shiites down and promoted the Sunnis.
There were no direct descendants left by around the ninth century. The Shiites believe that the last Imam has disappeared into eternity and will return. This is a kind of Messianic belief...
Iran is the only Shiite state. There the belief has developed that each of the faithful should choose a spiritual leader. If a cleric has many followers he may be called an Ayatollah.
It is important to point out that the Iranian Shiites are very different from the Arabic-speaking Shiites.
The Persian Shia Islam is strongly mixed with the ancient religion of Zoroastrianism. The Persians, todays Iranians, have a different language, history and culture.
(Excerpt) Read more at swissinfo.ch ...
Left handed head hackers vs right handed head hackers?
One sect prefers to have relations with goats, while the other prefers sheep.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
One believes you get 70 virgins for indiscriminate killing, the other believes you get 72, I don’t remember which one is which.
Speaking of Muzzies, I have always thought it strange the complete misapplication of the word martyr. I don’t think it means what they think it means.
Fighting over who gets all the goats.
The Sunni Muslims believe in killing all infidels and all Shiite Muslims whereas teh Shiite Muslims believe in killing all infidels and all Sunni Muslims.
Center mass hits from a .50BMG?
On a much more serious note than most of the responses here, exactly why doesn’t the western world exploit the deep differences between the major flavors of islam, promoting shooting war after shooting war until they are exhausted enough to be easily defeated?
“On a much more serious note than most of the responses here, exactly why doesnt the western world exploit the deep differences between the major flavors of islam, promoting shooting war after shooting war until they are exhausted enough to be easily defeated?”
That was part of supporting Saddam Hussein in Iraq’s war with Iran. It didn’t work out entirely well for us, besides the money we made selling him the poison gas he used.
Misleading. The Ismailis are Shiite, and they think there is a direct descendant and living imam. IIRC he is a Harvard man, class of '57. :) Back in the day, had a lovely home on the Rue des Ursins in the heart of Paris...built a very cool resort in Sardinia...my human almanac is on a tear.
Do they each have a distinct version of the Koran?
If only. There might then be some hope of a reformation.
Seems by now Freepers would know enough to add Islam to keywords.
Shorter answer : no. Just one quran. The hadith, or traditions, are somewhat open to dispute, but not the quran.
The split and its variations between sunni and 5er,7er and 12er shia all point to the issue of succession after Ali’s death, which has deepened into an argument of which faction is ‘right.’ As late as the 20th century, sunnis destroyed Hasan’s burial mosque.
So much for muslims not killing other muslims.
THe 3rd caliph was murdered, and the inclination extended to generations thereafter.
There’s a book called “The Closing of The Muslim Mind” (haven’t read it, but heard the author interviewed) that I think sheds much light on this. One group or the other rejected reason and became fundamentalist slaves.
Hottinger glosses over the division forgetting to mention its origins literally with the death of Mohamed, himself. And his equating of American evangelicals with fundamentalists in Pakistan is academic bigotry, or pompous bigotry.
There are better sources for those interested in the origins of the divisions among Muslims, and the differences between Persians and Arabs.
Ok Got it.
No, insanity is one attribute that Sunni and Shia share in common.
A preference for billy or nanny goats?
A well wielded sabre?
“....until they are exhausted enough to be easily defeated?”
Hell, they could be defeated right now without any problem.
But instead, we invite them into our country, treat them like honored guests hoping they won’t pull another 9/11.
It’s not Islam that is the problem — the problem lies with us and our deepseated politically correct attitude.
Comparison of Shia, Sunni and Sufi Factions of Islam
It’s not even us. It’s the kamakazi pilots who have grabbed the control yoke of the United States who are really to blame.
Is there such a huge difference? Given their behavior, I figure they’re nearly all Sh*tites..
“why doesnt the western world exploit the deep differences between the major flavors of islam”
Because they all are united in their hatred of the infidels. Only when the infidels are subjected in their own lands, and they are too weak to attack elsewhere, do they really get to work killing each other.
They consider the Koran perfect, so the Sunni should defer to the Shiite. After all, the entire Koran is full of Shiite.
On a much more serious note than most of the responses here, exactly why doesnt the western world exploit the deep differences ...
Exploit their differencees with 5 Mt warheads - much cheaper and quicker ...
Strickly forbidden by Mohammad. Potential reformers have an automatic fatwa of death placed on them - every muslim is obligated to kill them. (Reformers you see on TV are practicing taqyyia - sanctioned lying in defense of the movement to deceive infidels).
Christianity can be reformed - Islam cannot. There are many variations of the Bible, but only one version of the koran.
Christ killed no one. Mohammad killed 400 by his own hand - all Jews (beheading, a technique he popularized).
The uprisings aren’t about Freedom....they are about establishing islam sahria over every ME country....looks like Egypt will be going that way already.
There is no such thing as moderate Islam. It’s either you are Islamic or you are marked for death.
Never forget that whether sunni or shiite, both know that only the second given half of the koran is valid. The first given half was abrogated by Mohammed himself.
The second given half of the koran is the last revealed words of allah wherein the faithful are OBLIGATED to kill all non-believers.
I think that the Shiites under the Mahidi are not only obligated to bring all humanity to Paradise (human extinction), but the last two are obligated to kill each other ...
As you can see, they are natural allies of the voluntary human extinction movement mentioned on FR this weekend.
There is no such thing as moderate Islam. Its either you are Islamic or you are marked for death.
Knew that when the whole thing began. Obvious. Egypt is now firmly in the Iranian camp, gearing up to help Hamas bring more advanced missiles and weapons into Gaza ... and perhaps all or some of the chemical warheads and arty shells looted from Libya.
All our heartfelt thanks goes out to Our Dear Leader and his minions at Google, Facebook, Code Pink, and the CIA for making all this possible.
Wrong. -- FR discussion - #16 plus
Exactly. Tho, the dispute eventually led to major wars between the shi'ites & sunnis. -- Comparison of Sunni and Shia Islam (provides a concise & accurate backgrd & overview of key similarities & differences)
And we are continually told that islam is a religion. It is not a religion. It is an ideology with intent to rule according to shria law. That makes it a political entity and not a religion.
>> What divides Sunni and Shiite Muslims?
My ignorance of the disparity in their hatred for Christians like me.
good point — it is exactly what we should be doing. Why are we involved in Libya? And let Bahrain be the flash point between the Sunnis and Shias
yes, the head of the Ismailis is the Aga Khan. his grandfather and father both married many Europeans and he has 3/4th European blood (or more). The Ismailis are more “open” than other Moslems as the Aga Khan interprets the Koran for them and does tend towards peacefulness.
They do have differences of opinion on a lot of central beliefs besides the historical reasons.
Besides the Sunnis and Shias, there are Ibadis (Oman), Druze (Lebanon, Israel, Syria), Allawis (Syria), Ahmadiyyas (Pakistan mainly) and Bahai'is (Iran, India etc.)
Sunnis are divided into 4 groups based on interpretation (Hanafi etc.) -- not much difference but the Wahabbis and the Sufis are sub-groups that display quite divergent paths
Shias are divided into 12evrs, 7evers and I believer 5 evers depending on the number of Imams they hold as being "true". They are Ismailis, Bohris, Dawoodi Bohras, etc.
the best option that I have discussed with others is to induce Iranis to convert en-masse to Zoroastrianism (or rather to RETURN to Zoroastrianism). In recent reports the numbers of Zoroastrians has soared to 2 million from 50,000 and there may be millions of hidden, secret Zoroastrians in Iran as many Iranis are truly fed up with Islam which they see as an Arab conspiracy to put down Persia (which if you go to the origins of Islam may very well be true)
And they're still flagellating themselves over this during Ashura centuries later...
What do you expect from servants of Satan?
Sorry, but not quite.
After Mohammad's death, according to sunnis & shi'ites, there were 3 "Caliphs" plus 1. They include: (Aba) Abu Bakr, Umar (Omar), Uthman (Osman), and Ali ibn Abi Talib being the 4th Caliph.
The dispute between Shi'ites & Sunnis, which began immediately after Mohammad's death, was not simply because there was no designated successor to Mohammad by Mohammad; it was also about who was the rightful successor to Mohammad to wage war on infidels (non-believers) & to bring Islam by the sword, among other ways, to other lands.
Sunnis argued the rightful successor, to Mohammad, had to be chosen/elected by Moslems or the Ummah (Moslem) community. Shi'ites believed the rightful successor was already designated thru hereditary lines to Mohammad, in which case they said, the most rightful/legitimate one, was Ali (Mohammad's cousin & son-in-law).
Ali, therefore, is considered the 4th Caliph in Islam, and the 1st Shia Imam (the 1st "Guardian" of the Shi'ite sect). Shia Islam in Iran dictates that the other 11 Shia Imams are Ali's descendants by "bloodline" - the 12th (hidden) Imam being "Mehdi or Mahdi" will appear "at the end of time".
When the despicable Safavid rulers of Iran in the 16th century AD enforced Shia Islam on Iranians & made Shia Islam the official state religion, their subhumans brutally forced Iranians to say out loud "Ali is Vali" (Ali is the Guardian). Hence, A basis for the Velayat_e Faghih (the guardianship/rule of Shia jurisprudence) AKA Khomeini's doctrine. Ring a bell ?
I understand your wiki link is about Ali's son "hussein" (the 3rd Shia Imam). Hussein was beheaded, hence the Ashura mournings and self-flogging in the Shia twelvers world. Well, they are nutjobs. Tho, based on Sunni "traditions" ("sunnah") alone, I would venture to say the Sunnis have the potential to be more democratic & secular. Tho, it isn't solely about theology; it is about Arab culture, which can't be changed easily, and certainly not quickly.
Thanks for the information.