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David Cameron: Britain caused many of the world's problems
The Daily Telegraph ^ | 05 Apr 2011 | James Kirkup

Posted on 04/06/2011 1:04:40 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

David Cameron: Britain caused many of the world's problems

Britain is responsible for many of the world’s historic problems, including the conflict in Kashmir between India and Pakistan, David Cameron has said.

By James Kirkup, in Islamabad and Christopher Hope

The Prime Minister appeared to distance himself from the imperial past when he suggested that Britain was to blame for decades of tension and several wars over the disputed territory, as well as other global conflicts.

His remarks came on a visit to Pakistan, when he was asked how Britain could help to end the row over Kashmir.

He insisted that it was not his place to intervene in the dispute, saying: “I don’t want to try to insert Britain in some leading role where, as with so many of the world’s problems, we are responsible for the issue in the first place.”

His remarks about Kashmir were greeted warmly by the audience of Pakistani students and academics, but drew accusations from historians that the Prime Minister was wrongly apologising for Britain’s past.

Daisy Cooper, the director of the Commonwealth Policy Studies Unit, said: “This is typical of the UK’s schizophrenic relationship with former colonies where it is both proud and embarrassed about its past. The Coalition has said that it has big ambitions for a modern Commonwealth and the UK should stop being embarrassed about its colonial past and they should work with other countries to help improve their human rights.”

Tristram Hunt, the Labour MP, historian and former television presenter, said: “To say that Britain is a cause of many of the world’s ills is naïve. To look back 50-odd years for the problems

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: britishempire; cameron; davidcameron; greatbritain; kashmir

1 posted on 04/06/2011 1:04:45 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

It would appear that the cringing and masochistic self-flagellation of Politically Correct White Guilt is not confined to the United States....


2 posted on 04/06/2011 1:07:34 AM PDT by Jack Hammer
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To: sukhoi-30mki
What a tosh!
3 posted on 04/06/2011 1:07:58 AM PDT by OddLane
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To: sukhoi-30mki
What have the Romans ever done for us
4 posted on 04/06/2011 1:19:37 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (FED-UP!)
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To: Jack Hammer; sukhoi-30mki; OddLane

Alternatively, Cameron might’ve done something a politician rarely does - say what he knows will be the “unpopular” thing to say because it’s the most astute thing to do.

The abuse-excuse numpties over there are now trying to paint that as an apology because they know full well he’s absolutely right. They don’t want to fix their own mess so they’re looking to us to do it for them, so it’s the perfect time to dish out a handy reminder of the fact they’re independent primarily because they *didn’t* want us doing it for them.

Bear in mind that:

1. Cameron’s talking about slashing the aid budget to some of the former colonies

2. He’s explicitly said we don’t want to get involved

3. If you agree with Tristram Hunt (cockney rhyming slang for “socialist c - well, you figure it out) that this was a bad move then, well, I rest my case.

Do try and read between the lines.

Cameron basically said, albeit in VERY diplomatic terms, “Yeah, we were responsible for it. Then. You’ve now been in charge for fifty years, get with the programme. Sort your own mess out. It’s not our problem anymore EVEN IF it was our problem a few decades ago.”


5 posted on 04/06/2011 1:22:27 AM PDT by MalPearce
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To: sukhoi-30mki

When you grab a tiger by the tail, the tiger blames you when you let go....


6 posted on 04/06/2011 1:22:44 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
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To: Jack Hammer

In britain’s case it is true. Including the falsestinian/Israeli conflict.


7 posted on 04/06/2011 1:23:58 AM PDT by MestaMachine (Note: I do NOT capitalize anything I don't respect...like obama and/or islam...but I repeat myself.)
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To: Jack Hammer

He has taken lessons from Obama.


8 posted on 04/06/2011 1:28:55 AM PDT by JaneNC (I)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

I am grateful to the British for my language, culture and civilization, but it is true that its legacy is one that world is still paying for.

The US is still paying for the sins of Britain and its former empire.

In fact, many of the international problems the US gets blamed for were things the British screwed up in the first place.


9 posted on 04/06/2011 1:28:55 AM PDT by radpolis (Liberals: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

What is the compulsion the Brits seem to have to murder their own culture?


10 posted on 04/06/2011 1:33:15 AM PDT by Catmom
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To: MalPearce
Interesting perspective.

I still think it plays into the worst instincts of Islam as an escapist political ideology, e.g. absconding from personal responsibility, believing that any land a Muslim resides on belongs to the caliphate in perpetuity, etc...

The problems with Kashmir have nothing to do with the UK, or with India, or Israel, or the United States.

They exist because of Islam, and until you address the elephant in the room you're not going to get anywhere in trying to resolve them.

11 posted on 04/06/2011 1:35:31 AM PDT by OddLane
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To: Catmom

Being Socialized by Leftism!


12 posted on 04/06/2011 1:37:36 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Jack Hammer
OMG - I don't know whether to laugh or cry...

Dear David Cameron why don't you lemming-like just lead your pathetic little country off a cliff.

An American Expat in Southeast Asia

13 posted on 04/06/2011 1:38:09 AM PDT by expatguy (Support "An American Expat in Southeast Asia" - DONATE)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Another self hating fool..


14 posted on 04/06/2011 1:38:42 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: radpolis

And the UK continues to lead the West into the abyss of destruction with the US trailing not far behind.


15 posted on 04/06/2011 1:39:30 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

The only mistake Britain made was withdrawing before they had the populations indoctrinated in how to live like humans instead of dark age savages.


16 posted on 04/06/2011 1:51:17 AM PDT by calex59
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To: MalPearce
"1. Cameron’s talking about slashing the aid budget to some of the former colonies"

He should start with the subsidies he sends to EUrotopia.

yitbos

17 posted on 04/06/2011 2:13:34 AM PDT by bruinbirdman ("Those who control language control minds." -- Ayn Rand)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

There is a single cause for a disproportionate share of the world’s problems, and apparently, Cameron thinks it’s Britain. He seems to think they have caused trouble for Muslims everywhere in the world, with every religious faith in history, every time Islam has encountered civilized people. That’s a lot to take credit for, and I would give the credit to one group - but not the Brits. My guess is that Cameron is clueless on who is really responsible and would call me a racist if I told him the obvious answer.


18 posted on 04/06/2011 2:31:04 AM PDT by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Tag Line


19 posted on 04/06/2011 2:33:02 AM PDT by bmwcyle (It is Satan's fault)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

man up, David


20 posted on 04/06/2011 2:38:30 AM PDT by ari-freedom
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To: Jack Hammer

it’s not white guilt. Cameron is wrong to paint it one-sided, the British rule in various parts of the world had good as well as bad effects. Which outweighs the other depends on your own personal position, but no one can deny that there is an ambiguity in their position. This is quite unlike the French who ruined their colonies and quite unlike the Portuguese whose colonies still in many ways consider themselves part of the mother country.


21 posted on 04/06/2011 2:46:48 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: MalPearce
A good observation of yours

He's explicitly said we don't want to get involved

when he was asked how Britain could help to end the row over Kashmir. --> Quite frankly Britain gave Pakistan independence 64 years ago, and Britain has no intention or ability to play peacemaker here, it wants to do trade with both countries, so Cameron was veryyy wise to say "No way jose" in a very diplomatic way, preening the Pakis egos at the same time!

22 posted on 04/06/2011 2:49:42 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: sukhoi-30mki

We’re those areas peaceful BEFORE Britain got involved?


23 posted on 04/06/2011 2:52:57 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Actually the Brits still have the same problem, they think they rule the world and their body guard will pull their balls out of the fire every time they get in over their heads.


24 posted on 04/06/2011 3:02:55 AM PDT by org.whodat
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To: sukhoi-30mki

He is talking out of his backside....just like that barking mad Bob Brown(Australia Greens Party) who thinks that carbon dioxide is a pollutant.....He wants to tax the very air we breath!


25 posted on 04/06/2011 3:24:00 AM PDT by cavador ("Self determination is not a malfunction"!(Harkness;Fallout 3 Rivet City 2077))
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To: radpolis

You’re absolutely right. The French and the British have a lot to answer for. And yet they have amnesia when it comes to their past actions - continually blaming the USA for problems they created years ago.

That being said, Cameron should not be on an apology tour. He and his countrymen should look inward and stop dumping on Americans (that means you, Guardianistas!)


26 posted on 04/06/2011 4:09:19 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Must be related to Obama..


27 posted on 04/06/2011 4:11:19 AM PDT by SECURE AMERICA
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To: SECURE AMERICA

Hey, David, such self-loathing for your self and your culture is unbecoming. Maybe you should send Churchhill’s bust somewhere where it will be appreciated, you whining putz.


28 posted on 04/06/2011 4:34:50 AM PDT by hal ogen (1st amendment or reeducation camp?)
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To: calex59

Savages?!

Would you call Zionists “savages”? How about the Roma?

The underpinning issue here isn’t even one of religion. The same issues you see between Muslims and other Muslims, can be seen between Hindus and non-Hindus, between Jews and non-Jews, Roma and non-Roma, and so on.

The nomadic lifestyle predates Christianity and Islam and the concept of the nation state and wherever people live according to a nomadic lifestyle, our understanding of property rights and artificial nation state borders just doesn’t work properly.

For thousands of years, nomadic tribes in the tropics have been rooted in one village but travel hundreds if not thousands of miles for at least six months of the year, to follow the climate. The Old Testament confirms that the Jewish tribes were just as mobile as the Tuareg still are.

So when, in the 20th century, a lot of Western loonies with big maps of whole regions, just drew lines and said “that’s one country, that’s another”, all they really managed to achieve was, exacerbate entrenched tribal disputes between nomadic tribes of all faiths.

In Iraq/Iran/Kuwait there are tribes with centuries worth of historical and cultural claims to villages on different sides of the bordersm suddenly separated by an artificial barrier. Same happened with Kashmir, India, Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Result: perpetual political and cultural disputes both between nations and between tribes within nations, right across the region.

If you took away all the power structures in those countries, abolished the borders, and left them to their own devices, there’d be a lot of transient hotspots where multiple tribes claim ownership of the same turf. But you’d also find a lot of stability - “that town’s Shammar, that town’s Dulaim, that town’s Jabouri, that town’s Pashtun” and so on.

At that point you wouldn’t get the scale of war we have now, because the system would regulate itself and disputes would be between small local population groups.

The same is the case in Libya. Libya can never be “one nation” without an oppressively strong regime to force cooperation between the tribes. But it cannot be two nations either, because the entire population has deep nomadic roots and it’ll simply be a matter of time before they come into conflict. The best solution really is, to have several nation states within a federal union where they have to cooperate and no one tribe is given power to dominate the others. But that might not be practical right now.

There are thousands of Westernised Jews migrating from America to Israel - even if ten generations of their ancestors have never even visited Israel, they still feel as though Jerusalem is their spiritual home. And the sheer fact they have that nomadic drive to go “home” to Israel, *proves* that the same mindset cannot be totally bred out even after living according to Western norms for a hundred years or more. However, the Palestinians share the same mindset.

A Palestinian might have no legitimate claim to land in Israel but when he says, “But at least my family have been here for three generations, that guy just got off the boat from America and the last time an ancestor of his was here we still thought the world was flat!” he’s making the exact same mistake that we in the West make - assuming that there’s no nomadic tendency involved when there patently is.

I haven’t yet met a Christian from America who’s got a huge romantic vision of moving back to Dorset because they have a stronger pull to Weymouth than they do to America! This is because Northwestern Europe never has depended on that nomadic lifestyle. Frankly, we’ll never understand that pull in the same way an Arab or a Zionist will.


29 posted on 04/06/2011 4:35:09 AM PDT by MalPearce
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To: sukhoi-30mki

His remarks was a Teleprompter mix up, can’t wait for O to use other one


30 posted on 04/06/2011 4:48:05 AM PDT by Sir Beowolf (We The People!)
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To: MalPearce

Savages I said and savages I meant. The reason all those countries are having trouble, and african countries as well, is because, by and large, the people are uneducated and ignorant and were not ready to govern themselves. almost 100 years later, in some cases, they are still killing each other off. They have a mind set that goes back about 1100 years ago and they can’t get over it. BTW, next time keep your return comments to a frickin’ minimum. I got tired of reading your BS after the second paragraph.


31 posted on 04/06/2011 4:54:32 AM PDT by calex59
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To: org.whodat

Actually, no.

Take Iraq just by way of example - the British Mandate of Mesopotamia was about setting up a way for them to manage themselves.

We screwed that one up by ignoring the tribal element, and the nomadic culture.

About the only thing we actually did get right in many respects was the British Mandate for Palestine, which allowed the Jewish population to expand WITH the support of Palestinian Arabs.

When it went wrong, we can’t take all the blame. Consider the Peel Commission which proposed a two-state solution for Arabs and Jews in the mid-30s, at a time when we could see Anti-Semitism kicking off all over Europe and this would’ve provided a safe refuge for European Jews.

The Zionist Congress and the Arabs both rejected the plans, but after WW2, Ben-Gurion admitted, “Had partition been carried out, the history of our people would have been different and six million Jews in Europe would not have been killed-—most of them would be in Israel”.

In that context, maybe it’d have been better if we HAD ruled the world, because I’m pretty sure if the Zionists had had the benefit of hindsight, they might not have been so hostile to the idea of the two-state solution when that was put on the table...


32 posted on 04/06/2011 4:57:48 AM PDT by MalPearce
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To: sukhoi-30mki

The Liberal’s motto: Blame somebody else. It’s on their flag, I think.


33 posted on 04/06/2011 5:01:10 AM PDT by RoadTest (Organized religion is no substitute for the relationship the living God wants with you.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Britain did more to civilize this world than anybody since the Romans and before the Americans.


34 posted on 04/06/2011 5:02:22 AM PDT by RoadTest (Organized religion is no substitute for the relationship the living God wants with you.)
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To: calex59

Ah, yes. The “it’s too much information, I can’t handle it so I won’t read it” excuse.

If you ever get tired of reading the Old Testament (which really is quite a lot longer than my posts) I think you can get the Ten Commandments on flash cards. Just a tip.


35 posted on 04/06/2011 5:05:44 AM PDT by MalPearce
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Britain is responsible for many of the world’s historic problems, including the conflict in Kashmir between India and Pakistan, David Cameron has said.

This is a rather stupid thing to say. Britain is only "responsible" in the sense that they didn't eliminate the Muslim Menace wherever they encountered it. Instead they tried to isolate it as they did in Pakistan and Trans-Jordan. This obviously didn't work, but the Muslims were killing Hindus and Jews who didn't submit to their ways in these places before the British even knew they were there. See e.g. The Moslem Conquest (of India) . (an excerpt from Will Durant's Our Oriental Heritage)

ML/NJ

36 posted on 04/06/2011 5:32:41 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: sukhoi-30mki

I didn’t know that Britain was responsible for Islam, but if they were, then Britain is responsible for most of the World’s problems.


37 posted on 04/06/2011 6:24:46 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: calex59
The only mistake Britain made was withdrawing before they had the populations indoctrinated in how to live like humans instead of dark age savages.

Given that the British did what they could to keep them that way for as long as possible (for understandable reasons) what was the mistake? Face it, empires are ruled by force and lies. I'm an admirer of the British Empire and don't hold it against them.

38 posted on 04/06/2011 6:30:10 AM PDT by bkepley
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To: bkepley

True enough, but if they had educated and tried to make the people equals to the Brits, things would have gone differently, at least to a certain point. However, be that as it may, they are on their own now and have been for a long time. Time for them to clean up their own mess.


39 posted on 04/06/2011 7:32:15 AM PDT by calex59
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Well, I suppose Attlee and Mountbatten could have told Jinnah, “No, we’re not carving off pieces for you lot, now go bugger off and help Nehru and Gandhi make it work, there’s a good lad,” and that would have eliminated the Kashmir border problem…and created others. Somebody was going to be unhappy no matter how that got set up.


40 posted on 04/06/2011 7:46:32 AM PDT by RichInOC (Palin 2012: The Perfect Storm.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Even with some egregious mistakes like Ireland, the history of Britain’s contributions to the civilization and betterment of the world have been outstanding. No other country has contributed as much to the spread of democracy as Britain. Remember, we were a British colony first and received our democratic ideals from Britain. And then we improved on it by making our country a republic.


41 posted on 04/06/2011 8:30:08 AM PDT by driftless2 (For long-term happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: driftless2
Even with some egregious mistakes like Ireland, the history of Britain’s contributions to the civilization and betterment of the world have been outstanding. No other country has contributed as much to the spread of democracy as Britain

So true! I love reading about the Brits.

42 posted on 04/06/2011 12:28:35 PM PDT by Siena Dreaming
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To: driftless2

Thanks for the props!

Yes you’re right you improved on our system with the Constitution, and the Republic.

Patriots might’ve said “I love my country” but the greatest patriots of them all, probably said something along the lines of, “but my country has got this wrong and here’s how I propose we can fix it...”

I face-palm every time someone says to me that being a patriot is all about REFUSING to acknowledge mistakes.

America wouldn’t have had the Constitution at all, if the Founding Fathers had all been patriots by that measure.

Jefferson admitted that without people like Francis Bacon, John Locke, Isaac Newton and Thomas Paine, the path America trod would’ve looked very different.

More than one of those guys achieved notoriety for daring to explore Britain’s failures in detail.


43 posted on 04/06/2011 4:49:38 PM PDT by MalPearce
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To: org.whodat

And that bodyguard would be you, right?.


44 posted on 04/07/2011 7:03:52 PM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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