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Utah Approves Gold! (as legal tender)
Libertarian Republicsn ^ | April 6, 2011 | Eric Dondero

Posted on 04/06/2011 1:28:26 PM PDT by FreeKeys

Wednesday, April 6, 2011

Utah Approves Gold!

“The gold standard would keep you from printing money and destroying the middle class,” said Republican Congressman Ron Paul

From Eric Dondero:

Utah Governor Gary Herbert has just officially signed a Bill to completely legalize gold and silver as legal tender in the State. The Bill was originally proposed by libertarian Republican state legislator Rep. Brad Galvez.

From FutureofCapitalism blog:
Utah has become the first state to pass a law exempting gold and silver coins from the state's capital gains tax and requiring the state to recognize gold and silver coins as legal tender, the Deseret News reports. The governor signed the bill into law on March 25. The text of the bill is here. It also orders a study of "the possibility of establishing an alternative form of legal tender for the payment of debts, public charges, taxes, and dues within the state."
Further, American Principles Project reports that similar bills are currently pending in other states:
"Utah is the first state to move toward recognizing gold and silver as money. Ten other states have proposed similar bills, but none have been voted out of committee."
Photo h/t usagold.com


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: currency; gold; goldlegaltender; inflation; legaltender
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I hope they can make depository receipts to be legal currency.
1 posted on 04/06/2011 1:28:33 PM PDT by FreeKeys
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To: FreeKeys

From a practical standpoint, how will this work?


2 posted on 04/06/2011 1:34:57 PM PDT by COBOL2Java (Obama is the least qualified guy in whatever room he walks into.)
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To: FreeKeys

That’s 1.


3 posted on 04/06/2011 1:35:40 PM PDT by savedbygrace (But God.)
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To: COBOL2Java

I’d imagine it’ll be like the “money” we already use...except you’ll be able to get a lot more with less of it since it actually has value.


4 posted on 04/06/2011 1:38:16 PM PDT by RWB Patriot ("My ability is a value that must be purchased and I don't recognize anyone's need as a claim on me.")
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To: 4Liberty; econjack; businessprofessor; EternalVigilance; John Locke; PGalt; socialismisinsidious; ..

any thoughts?


5 posted on 04/06/2011 1:39:00 PM PDT by FreeKeys ("Countries that bankrupt themselves aren't around very long, & we're getting close." -Tom McClintock)
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To: FreeKeys

Sweeeeet


6 posted on 04/06/2011 1:42:30 PM PDT by therightliveswithus
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To: FreeKeys

Is that legal?


7 posted on 04/06/2011 1:43:03 PM PDT by sickoflibs ("It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the federal spending=tax delayed")
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To: FreeKeys

It’s a start!


8 posted on 04/06/2011 1:43:03 PM PDT by dynachrome ("Our forefathers didn't bury their guns. They buried those that tried to take them.")
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To: FreeKeys

I forget which liberal ‘rat said it recently, but they REALLY hate the idea of “backed” currency, because it takes away a lot of their power to inflate the currency to care for the poor.


9 posted on 04/06/2011 1:44:03 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: sickoflibs

Actually, that was my belief a while back, as well, that states could not coin money.

The actual prohibition, however, is only on fiat currency like the fedgov issues. PM coins are allowed, constitutionally.


10 posted on 04/06/2011 1:45:37 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: sickoflibs
Is that legal?

Yeah, but more than that. It's moral too.

11 posted on 04/06/2011 1:46:44 PM PDT by FreeKeys ("Countries that bankrupt themselves aren't around very long, & we're getting close." -Tom McClintock)
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To: FreeKeys

Capitalism works..............


12 posted on 04/06/2011 1:47:24 PM PDT by Red Badger (I've posted a total of 1,714 threads and 64,019 replies as of 04-04-2011)
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To: FreeKeys
Article I, Section 10, US Constitution: No State shall... coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts...

IOW, they may neither coin money, nor print certificates backed by gold and silver coin.

13 posted on 04/06/2011 1:47:30 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The RINOcrat Party is still in charge. There has never been a conservative American government.)
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To: FreeKeys
By using the term "legal tender", they are declaring that the value of a Gold Eagle is $50, its face value if it is used as money. Likewise, a Silver Eagle's face value is $1.

This is unfortunate. For this reason, no one with a brain will use gold and silver bullion coins as legal tender in Utah. This provision of the law was ill-advised and needs to be rewritten.

14 posted on 04/06/2011 1:47:51 PM PDT by Publius
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To: COBOL2Java

From a practical standpoint, how will this work?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
While I’m glad to see this development on general principles I cannot answer your question. I’m hoping someone else can.


15 posted on 04/06/2011 1:49:33 PM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: Carry_Okie

They can only use genuine US Minted gold and silver currency. Regardless of face value, the goods and services a gold $50 piece will buy will equal the value of the ounce of gold.


16 posted on 04/06/2011 1:54:31 PM PDT by martian622 (The Revolution is being televised.)
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To: COBOL2Java

What this means in a practical sense is that in Utah you can exchange paper dollars for precious metals without paying a state income tax.

I don’t know if Utah has a sales tax on precious metals or not.

It will be more like Washington state has been for decades, where there is no state income tax and precious metals are sales tax exempt.


17 posted on 04/06/2011 1:55:52 PM PDT by seowulf ("If you write a whole line of zeroes, it's still---nothing"...Kira Alexandrovna Argounova)
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To: FreeKeys

If you can’t afford gold, buy silver.


18 posted on 04/06/2011 1:56:08 PM PDT by StarfireIV ((Atlas Punted))
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To: FreeKeys

Wonder if when you go to buy an item, the realtor only gives you 3/4 the value of the gold.

(which is what gold buyers do)


19 posted on 04/06/2011 1:56:12 PM PDT by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
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To: FreeKeys
Wonder if when you go to buy an item, the Realtors only gives you 3/4 the value of the gold.

(which is what gold buyers do)

20 posted on 04/06/2011 1:56:39 PM PDT by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
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To: wolfcreek

sorry, meant retailer


21 posted on 04/06/2011 1:57:53 PM PDT by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
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To: Publius

Was wondering about the details of that.

Some employer paid his employees along those lines: say, $50/week ... paid in gold US face-value coin. The IRS had a problem with that.


22 posted on 04/06/2011 1:58:05 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (Great children's books - http://www.UsborneBooksGA.com)
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To: COBOL2Java

I think you bring some nuggets into a grocery store, and the grocer puts them on a scale, and then goes to the Internet and looks up the current market quote for gold on the NY futures market, and then tells the shopper, “Mrs. Beazly, we’re at 2,000 USD per ounce, and you’ve got 1/10th of an ounce here, so that’d make 200, but if you’d care to wait ‘til you’ve done your shopping, I think it’s rallying and what you have here might be 205 by the time you bring your purchases forward to the cashier. Or if it’s slumping, he’d tell her he’d give her the credit now, and that way save her some money. But if the market goes the opposite of what her grocer/broker predicts, and works to his advantage, will it end up in small claims court?


23 posted on 04/06/2011 1:58:31 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: FreeKeys

Stay tuned for a real, live, field demonstration of Gresham’s Law


24 posted on 04/06/2011 2:00:28 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Obama. Chauncey Gardiner without the homburg.)
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To: Carry_Okie
Article I, Section 10, US Constitution: No State shall... coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts...

IOW, they may neither coin money, nor print certificates backed by gold and silver coin.

No, the state GOVERNMENTS can't do it, but...

25 posted on 04/06/2011 2:02:09 PM PDT by FreeKeys ("Countries that bankrupt themselves aren't around very long, & we're getting close." -Tom McClintock)
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To: FreeKeys
I hope they can make depository receipts to be legal currency.

Ironically enough, that's how paper money got started.

26 posted on 04/06/2011 2:02:33 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (Will work for chocolate)
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To: MrB

“care for the poor” should really be in quotes.

They actually enslave and destroy “the poor”, increasing the size of the dependent class as endentured voters.


27 posted on 04/06/2011 2:05:05 PM PDT by Christian Engineer Mass (25ish Cambridge MA grad student. Many younger conservative Christians out there? __ Click my name)
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To: FreeKeys

A step in the right direction. If the 0bamunists are allowed to proceed, the paper money you have won’t even make good toilet paper.


28 posted on 04/06/2011 2:13:57 PM PDT by Noumenon ("How do we know when the Government is like that guy with the van and the handcuffs?" --Henry Bowman)
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To: FreeKeys

Francisco's Money Speech

Rearden heard Bertram Scudder, outside the group, say to a girl who made some sound of indignation, "Don't let him disturb you. You know, money is the root of all evil- and he's the typical product of money."

Rearden did not think that Francisco could have heard it, but he saw Francisco turning to them with a gravely courteous smile.

"So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco d'Aconia. "Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?

"When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so only on the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of the effort of others. It is not the moochers or the looters who give value to money. Not an ocean of tears nor all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into the bread you will need to survive tomorrow. Those pieces of paper, which should have been gold, are a token of honor- your claim upon the energy of the men who produce. Your wallet is your statement of hope that somewhere in the world around you there are men who will not default on that moral principle which is the root of money. Is this what you consider evil?

"Have you ever looked for the root of production? Take a look at an electric generator and dare tell yourself that it was created by the muscular effort of unthinking brutes. Try to grow a seed of wheat without the knowledge left to you by men who had to discover it for the first time. Try to obtain your food by means of nothing but physical motions- and you'll learn that man's mind is the root of all the goods produced and of all the wealth that has ever existed on earth.

"But you say that money is made by the strong at the expense of the weak? What strength do you mean? It is not the strength of guns or muscles. Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. Then is money made by the man who invents a motor at the expense of those who did not invent it? Is money made by the intelligent at the expense of the fools? By the able at the expense of the incompetent? By the ambitious at the expense of the lazy? Money is made - before it can be looted or mooched- made by the effort of every honest man, each to the extent of his ability. An honest man is one who knows that he can't consume more than he has produced.

"To trade by means of money is the code of the men of good will. Money rests on the axiom that every man is the owner of his mind and his effort. Money allows no power to prescribe the value of your effort except by the voluntary choice of the man who is willing to trade you his effort in return. Money permits you to obtain for your goods and your labor that which they are worth to the men who buy them, but no more. Money permits no deals except those to mutual benefit by the unforced judgment of the traders. Money demands of you the recognition that men must work for their own benefit, not for their own injury, for their gain, not their loss - the recognition that they are not beasts of burden, born to carry the weight of your misery- that you must offer them values, not wounds- that the common bond among men is not the exchange of suffering, but the exchange of GOODS. Money demands that you sell, not your weakness to men's stupidity, but your talent to their reason; it demands that you buy, not the shoddiest they offer, but the best your money can find. And when men live by trade- with reason, not force, as their final arbiter--it is the best product that wins, the best performance, then man of best judgment and highest ability- and the degree of a man's productiveness is the degree of his reward. This is the code of existence whose tool and symbol is money. Is this what you consider evil?

"But money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver. It will give you the means for the satisfaction of your desires, but it will not provide you with desires. Money is the scourge of the men who attempt to reverse the law of causality - the men who seek to replace the mind by seizing the products of the mind.

"Money will not purchase happiness for the man who has no concept of what he wants; money will not give him a code of values, if he's evaded the knowledge of what to value, and it will not provide him with a purpose, if he's evaded the choice of what to seek. Money will not buy intelligence for the fool, or admiration for the coward, or respect for the incompetent. The man who attempts to purchase the brains of his superiors to serve him, with his money replacing his judgment, ends up by becoming the victim of his inferiors. The men of intelligence desert him, but the cheats and the frauds come flocking to him, drawn by a law which he has not discovered: that no man may be smaller than his money. Is this the reason why you call it evil?

"Only the man who does not need it, is fit to inherit wealth - the man who would make his own fortune no matter where he started. If an heir is equal to his money, it serves him; if not, it destroys him. But you look on and you cry that money corrupted him. Did it? Or did he corrupt his money? Do not envy a worthless heir; his wealth is not yours and you would have done no better with it. Do not think that it should have been distributed among you; loading the world with fifty parasites instead of one, would not bring back the dead virtue which was the fortune. Money is a living power that dies without its root. Money will not serve that mind that cannot match it. Is this the reason why you call it evil?

"Money is your means of survival. The verdict which you pronounce upon the source of your livelihood is the verdict you pronounce upon your life. If the source is corrupt, you have damned your own existence. Did you get your money by fraud? By pandering to men's vices or men's stupidity? By catering to fools, in the hope of getting more than your ability deserves? By lowering your standards? By doing work you despise for purchasers you scorn? If so, then your money will not give you a moment's or a penny's worth of joy. Then all the things you buy will become, not a tribute to you, but a reproach; not an achievement, but a reminder of shame. Then you'll scream that money is evil. Evil, because it would not pinch-hit for your self-respect? Evil, because it would not let you enjoy your depravity? Is this the root of your hatred of money?

"Money will always remain an effect and refuse to replace you as the cause. Money is the product of virtue, but it will not give you virtue and it will not redeem your vices. Money will not give you the unearned, neither in matter nor in spirit. Is this the root of your hatred of money?

"Or did you say it's the love of money that's the root of all evil? To love a thing is to know and love its nature. To love money is to know and love the fact that money is the creation of the best power within you, and your passkey to trade your effort for the effort of the best among men. It's the person who would sell his soul for a nickel, who is the loudest in proclaiming his hatred of money- and he has good reason to hate it. The lovers of money are willing to work for it. They know they are able to deserve it."

"Let me give you a tip on a clue to men's characters: the man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it.

"Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another - their only substitute, demands of you the highest virtues, if you wish to make it or to keep it. Men who have no courage, pride, or self-esteem, men who have no moral sense of their right to their money and are not willing to defend it as they defend their life, men who apologize for being rich - will not remain rich for long. They are the natural bait for the swarms of looters that stay under rocks for centuries, but come crawling out at the first smell of a man who begs to be forgiven for the guilt of owning wealth. They will hasten to relieve him of the guilt- and of his life, as he deserves.

"Then you will see the rise of the double standard--the men who live by force, yet count on those who live by trade to create the value of their looted money- the men who are the hitchhikers of virtue. In a moral society, these are the criminals, and the statutes are written to protect you against them. But when a society establishes criminals-by-right and looters-by-law- men who use force to seize the wealth of disarmed victims- then money becomes its creators' avenger. Such looters believe it safe to rob defenseless men, once they've passed a law to disarm them. But their loot becomes the magnet for other looters, who get it from them as they got it. Then the race goes, not to the ablest at production, but to those most ruthless at brutality. When force is the standard, the murderer wins over the pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

"Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion - when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you- when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice- you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that it does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot.

"Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it becomes, marked: 'Account overdrawn.'

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, 'Who is destroying the world?' You are.

"You stand in the midst of the greatest achievements of the greatest productive civilization and you wonder why it's crumbling around you, while you’re damning its life-blood- money. You look upon money as the savages did before you, and you wonder why the jungle is creeping back to the edge of your cities. Throughout men's history, money was always seized by looters of one brand or another, but whose method remained the same: to seize wealth by force and to keep the producers bound, demeaned, defamed, and deprived of honor. That phrase about the evil of money, which you mouth with such righteous recklessness, comes from a time when wealth was produced by the labor of slaves- slaves who repeated the motions once discovered by somebody's mind and left unimproved for centuries. So long as production was ruled by force, and wealth was obtained by conquest, there was little to conquer. Yet through all the centuries of stagnation and starvation, men exalted the looters, as aristocrats of the sword, as aristocrats of birth, as aristocrats of the bureau, and despised the producers, as slaves, as traders, as shopkeepers- as industrialists.

"To the glory of mankind, there was, for the first and only time in history, a country of money- and I have no higher, more reverent tribute to pay to America, for this means: a country of reason, justice, freedom, production, achievement. For the first time, man's mind and money were set free, and there were no fortunes-by-conquest, but only fortunes-by-work, and instead of swordsmen and slaves, there appeared the real maker of wealth, the greatest worker, the highest type of human being - the self-made man - the American industrialist.

"If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would choose- because it contains all the others--the fact that they were the people who created the phrase 'to make money.' No other language or nation had ever used these words before; men had always thought of wealth as a static quantity - to be seized, begged, inherited, shared, looted, or obtained as a favor. Americans were the first to understand that wealth has to be created. The words 'to make money' hold the essence of human morality.

"Yet these were the words for which Americans were denounced by the rotted cultures of the looters' continents. Now the looters' credo has brought you to regard your proudest achievements as a hallmark of shame, your prosperity as guilt, your greatest men, the industrialists, as blackguards, mark of shame, your prosperity as guilt, your greatest men, the industrialists, as blackguards, and your magnificent factories as the product and property of muscular labor, the labor of whip-driven slaves, like the pyramids of Egypt. The rotter who simpers that he sees no difference between the power of the dollar and the power of the whip, ought to learn the difference on his own hide- as, I think, he will.

"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns - or dollars. Take your choice - there is no other - and your time is running out."  

29 posted on 04/06/2011 2:19:06 PM PDT by Noumenon ("How do we know when the Government is like that guy with the van and the handcuffs?" --Henry Bowman)
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To: wolfcreek
Wonder if when you go to buy an item, the Realtors only gives you 3/4 the value of the gold.

If you let them. Trade should be mutually agreed-upon, not coerced, transactions.

30 posted on 04/06/2011 2:19:43 PM PDT by FreeKeys ("Countries that bankrupt themselves aren't around very long, & we're getting close." -Tom McClintock)
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To: Noumenon

Wonderful. Thanks for posting that.


31 posted on 04/06/2011 2:21:58 PM PDT by FreeKeys ("Countries that bankrupt themselves aren't around very long, & we're getting close." -Tom McClintock)
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To: COBOL2Java

It won’t work. Remember? Bad money drives out good? A fiat money standard and a gold money standard won’t function together.


32 posted on 04/06/2011 2:25:07 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: FreeKeys

This is also the same Utah that gave illegals amnesty.


33 posted on 04/06/2011 2:25:57 PM PDT by Frantzie (HD TV - Total Brain-washing now in High Def. 3-D Coming soon)
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To: FreeKeys
We tend to forget. Rand had the clearest, most concise and most ultimately moral foundation for what money really is.

The US has come to resemble the world or Atlas SHrugged more than I care to think. But this I promise: When Atlas is done shrugging, he's going to pick up a gun.

34 posted on 04/06/2011 2:29:05 PM PDT by Noumenon ("How do we know when the Government is like that guy with the van and the handcuffs?" --Henry Bowman)
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To: Noumenon

Love it everytime I read it.


35 posted on 04/06/2011 2:33:06 PM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: count-your-change
It won’t work. Remember? Bad money drives out good? A fiat money standard and a gold money standard won’t function together.

OK. So gold Canadian Maple Leafs and the Krugerrand have no value....to you. Roll with it player....

36 posted on 04/06/2011 2:33:23 PM PDT by ScreamingFist (Quiet the Idiot)
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To: COBOL2Java; FreeKeys; MrB
Article I
Section. 8.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

....

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States; ....

Article I
Section 10.

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

....

Note that it does not say the state can make gold and silver a legal tender, but rather specifically says gold and silver Coin a legal tender. So the state has the constitutional authority to make gold and silver coin legal tender for payment of debts, but does not have any authority to produce the coins or to set the value thereof. So you can use your $5.00 gold coin as legal tender to buy $5.00 worth of goods and services or to discharge $5.00 worth of debt. (Good luck getting a $5.00 gold coin for a cost south of several hundred dollars.)
37 posted on 04/06/2011 2:37:23 PM PDT by VRWCmember (Veritas vos Liberabit)
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To: Carry_Okie

They can do whatever they want since the federal government is issuing illegal currency.

Whos side you on in that case?


38 posted on 04/06/2011 2:41:36 PM PDT by crz
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To: FreeKeys
"any thoughts?"

Yes, I want more Silver Eagles A.S.A.P. (And Junk Silver also.)

39 posted on 04/06/2011 2:45:08 PM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: FreeKeys

Think about it: the State of Utah can now *require* payment in gold or silver instead of hyper-inflated US dollars. Imagine the tax haul they’d make if they peg gold at anything other than spot.


40 posted on 04/06/2011 2:47:29 PM PDT by MeganC (NO WAR FOR OIL! ........except when a Democrat's in charge.)
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To: Noumenon

Euro rise to 14-month high vs dollar before ECB
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2700680/posts


41 posted on 04/06/2011 2:48:15 PM PDT by buzzer
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To: COBOL2Java
"From a practical standpoint, how will this work"?

You tender your gold or silver as payment for "X" product. The value of gold / silver is known per minute. Any cash returned you use like you always do.- only thing is that it is at that point not devalued as much as money you had in the bank because the value of the gold/silver increased.

Don't let it sit in your bank account - That is the trick

Any paper money you spend immediately on your immediate needs. Your keep your gold/silver for emergencies.
42 posted on 04/06/2011 2:50:14 PM PDT by jongaltsr (It)
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To: Publius
By using the term "legal tender", they are declaring that the value of a Gold Eagle is $50, its face value if it is used as money. Likewise, a Silver Eagle's face value is $1.

This is unfortunate. For this reason, no one with a brain will use gold and silver bullion coins as legal tender in Utah. This provision of the law was ill-advised and needs to be rewritten.

You obviously do not understand how gold is exchanged.

A St.Gaudins Gold 1 oz coin is worth close to $2000.

If you are willing to exchange it for $50 please come to me. I will buy everything you have
43 posted on 04/06/2011 2:57:00 PM PDT by jongaltsr (It)
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To: Noumenon

Everybody should read this speech...........


44 posted on 04/06/2011 3:00:22 PM PDT by jongaltsr (It)
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To: FreeKeys
I hope they can make depository receipts to be legal currency.

You're hoping they'll print money, showing the stupidity of Paul's 'keep you from printing money' quote.

45 posted on 04/06/2011 3:01:36 PM PDT by expat_panama
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To: Carry_Okie

Right, but they are not coining it. They are just encouraging it.


46 posted on 04/06/2011 3:06:41 PM PDT by omega4179 (No war for Brotherhood.)
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To: ctdonath2
Some employer paid his employees along those lines: say, $50/week ... paid in gold US face-value coin. The IRS had a problem with that.

I can't see how they got him for that. What he was paying them in was in fact legal currency, and he was reporting the value. I would have thought that in order to get him what they'd have had to do was say "Oh, if that gold is evaluated at face value, you're only paying your people $0.50 an hour, and therefore you're in violation of minimum wage laws." How can the US government go to court, state that the value of the currency is NOT what it has already stated it was, and WIN?

47 posted on 04/06/2011 3:08:36 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: FreeKeys
"“The gold standard would keep you from printing money and destroying the middle class,” said Republican Congressman Ron Paul"

Ron Paul is an idiot.


48 posted on 04/06/2011 3:12:44 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: jongaltsr
On the contrary, I know exactly how gold is exchanged -- when you're dealing with a gold, silver or coin dealer. I know exactly how much an old St. Gaudens Double Eagle goes for, along with the exchange rate for a modern Canadian Maple Leaf.

What you don't understand is that when you are dealing with a government agency enabled by legal tender laws, that very valuable ounce of gold goes for only its face value. Under the Utah law as written, if you want to pay a state tax with gold, that one ounce Gold Eagle is only worth its $50 face value to the state. That's all you'll get, even if today's gold dealer value for that coin is closer to $1500.

This is why that provision of the law needs to be replaced. It's a trap.

49 posted on 04/06/2011 3:20:19 PM PDT by Publius
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To: jongaltsr
When force is the standard, the murderer wins over the pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion - when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you- when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice- you may know that your society is doomed.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is a true and accurate chronicle of our time. With consequences so dire and so grave that none of us - even those (especially those) who suppose themselves safe and above it all - will escape those consequences. At the end of the day, it's ultimately not about money. Money's only one of the means to a particular end. An end desired and driven by killers without conscience. And that end is a nightmare world of slaughter and atrocity. The nudge, the gradual squeeze - and then the shove. This is the foundation and the prerequisite for a world in which neither love, nor mercy, nor hope survive. It is a world in which all of your hopes, aspirations and dreams, all of your love of country and family not only count for naught, because they - and you - will be extinguished as if you never had existed. Because you surely must be if these will-to-power driven monsters are to rule without fear of opposition.

There can be only one response to such monstrous evil.

50 posted on 04/06/2011 3:22:03 PM PDT by Noumenon ("How do we know when the Government is like that guy with the van and the handcuffs?" --Henry Bowman)
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