Posted on 04/09/2011 3:10:37 PM PDT by jdoug666
>No requirement that the person actually be born within the state of Hawaii to receive a birth certificate. That’s why we need to SEE THE LONG FORM.<
I think that the law may have been changed very recently. But it was certainly true when Obama was born. here is a fine example of someone we KNOW wasn’t born in Hawaii and they have a certificate from hawaii ...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9830547/Sun-Yatsen-Certification-of-Live-Birth-in-Hawaii
>We know that Obama sent away for a Hawaii birth certificate in 2007 because the short form birth certificate we saw on Obama’s website in 2008 has 2007 stamped on the back.<
Funny how the woman who was the director stated that the birth certificate was requested in 2008 though ... (yet that nasty 2007 stamp is on it)
>I don’t care, from the evidence I have seen Obama was born in Hawaii. Depending upon natural born citizenship status that still leaves open the question of his citizenship given at the time his mother was too young to pass on citizenship and his father was a foreign national.<
I originally thought the same thing ... until I thought about one issue.
In 61 when she was giving birth to Obama .. she being a white girl was giving birth to a “black” child .. In hawaii ... not a lot of blacks there at all really. back in that day, I think she may have been really afraid of the social stigma attached to having a black child. It makes more sense that she “went away” someplace to give birth then come back and act as if she hadn’t.
We know she had Barry living with his grandparents .. I am thinking that even though she was .. ahem .. rather .. how can I put this nicely .. rather free with her body. She may have had some apprehension about having a biracial child back in 61 when it wasn’t acceptable at all. Especially in a Polynesian culture, where there were few “interracial” children.
Just food for thought.
I think it is funny how everyone from Obama’s aunt, bidens daughter - are all shrilling now over this.
Pass the popcorn
Screw you, FatChicks.org!
If what you are referring to is Factcheck's public noise, Factcheck has provided you no evidence. Hearsay is not evidence, by legal definition. Check your definitions. Check your logic. You believe in hearsay, you have blind faith, but no evidence and no proof of anything. You are merely believing what someone else wants you to believe. You have given over your intellect to someone else.
Your "important" friends have given you nothing more than their opinion, as perhaps you have given them yours. In other words, herd instinct, or blind leading blind.
I can see why you do not want to get into a debate. You have no ammo to debate with.
Good luck with that.
The difference between Trump and common folk is that Trump has money. The money gives him credibility because it equates to some form of power at some level. For example, the power to conduct an investigation, or the power to make a speech and get it reported in the news, or the power to pay for an ad. That power gets Trump respect that common folk do not get from the press. The press fears Trump because he cannot be controlled like ordinary people who can be ridiculed by the press and have no PR to fight back with.
The value of Trump is that he can use his money to pierce the wall of non-logic that the press throw up about this issue. I suspect he would be willing to gamble and lose on this issue. He can afford to gamble and lose since his income does not depend on winning-- that is, he does not need to ask for donations to his campaign.
By now Obama's birth certificate is with every passing day more similar to the dog that did not bark. We all deal with uncertainty every day, and powerful people deal with even more uncertainty every day. Making decisions in the face of uncertainty is necessary and proper for adults to function in society and for citizens to participate in government by voting or running for office.
Obama continues to avoid doing what a kid needs to do to play little league baseball-- show a verified birth certificate. He has likely spent $2M avoiding this simple test instead of going through with it. While it is always in theory possible that he is just being very shy, that possibility is diminishing to the vanishing point now, and ordinary people would ordinarily (without massive pro-Obama PR) think someone who has hidden his birth certificate the way Obama has, has something damaging to hide.
If you realize part of your rationality has been supplanted by a massive PR campaign you are on the first step towards recovery.
You could tell your important friends by reducing to principles, and phrasing Socratic questions in manner that subtracts Obama from the principles. Then it becomes clear Obama is diverging from ordinary behavior and therefore most likely hiding something.
The birth certificate that FactCheck examined and photographed was an original in the sense of being the paper document that the Hawaii Department of Health certified by stamping the attestation of the record keeper and applying of the seal of the office. The seal is embossed, so it distinguishes the certified document from a copy.
Very well. I’d be MORE than willing to accept that IF (1) ANY other media or citizen group could have the same access to the short form Birth Certificate that FactCheck.org had, and (2) if the actual, official Long Form Certificate issued at the time of his birth was made available
However, ONLY FactCheck.org has ever SEEN and handled the “Short Term” BC you claim is authentic. NO ONE ELSE has EVER laid eyes on it. And the Long Form BC — NEVER seen. Obama has spent over $2 million to keep them “sealed.” Why? Why do you suppose that is?
I think it is accurate to say that the exact amount is unknown and the $2 million figure is made up. Certainly lawyers have appeared in various cases on Obama's behalf, but it seems unlikely that Obama is paying for them out of his own pocket. Did Nixon pay John Dean's salary? In any case, the lawyers for Obama have not had to fight very hard since no one has presented a case that even seems close to getting the courts to go along.
I think it is accurate to say that the exact amount is unknown and the $2 million figure is made up. Certainly lawyers have appeared in various cases on Obama’s behalf, but it seems unlikely that Obama is paying for them out of his own pocket. Did Nixon pay John Dean’s salary? In any case, the lawyers for Obama have not had to fight very hard since no one has presented a case that even seems close to getting the courts to go along.
If Obama didn’t pay for his lawyers, then either an unknown private interest did — or WE the taxpayers did. If an unknown private interest did, there is at least the appearance of impropriety. If we the taxpayers paid the bill, we are owed a complete accounting, to the penny. If he’s paying out of his own pocket — so long as he got his $ from his own labor, fine. However, since he is hiding a document relevant to the position he holds, no amount of $$ ought to be enough to keep hidden that which is materially relevant.
Oh — if Richard Nixon DID pay John Dean’s salary, he sure did get a raw deal! John Dean one of the lowest snakes that ever lived! Read “Silent Coup!” Ask G. Gordon Liddy! lol
Finally, I find it fascinating that the “Courts” cannot find a single soul with “standing” or with ANY “legitimate” questions regarding the standing or qualifications of Barack Obama to be President of the United States, at least in light of the way Obama has acted suspiciously with regard to the hiding of his birth certificate. It’s ludicrous.
I’m not a “Birther,” but how OBVIOUS does it have to be that this guy has something — or THINGS — to hide?
It's not the job of the courts to find these people. It's the job of the plaintiffs to bring a case that will convince the courts to agree in their favor. It appears that a major part of the problem is that the lawyers who have brought these cases are not of the highest quality. Also, for various reasons of legal precedent, it is difficult to gain any traction in the courts on this topic. The courts tend to defer to the decisions of the voters and the remedies that may or may not be brought about by the legislature.
If some lawyers who had already successfully argued Supreme Court cases could see a way to get somewhere and somebody was willing to bankroll them, then something might happen. But, at this point, with 2012 around the corner, and no impeachment movement underway in Congress, it seems likely that the courts are going to let the voters decide whether to remove Obama from office.
If Obama didn’t pay for his lawyers, then either an unknown private interest did — or WE the taxpayers did.
I wonder if it's legal to use left-over campaign funds for this kind of thing. If not, and if the Democratic Party wouldn't take care of it, then it probably wouldn't be too hard for Obama to put together some kind of defense fund. I wonder who paid for Clinton's lawyers during all his various legal and impeachment troubles.
It’s not the job of the courts to find these people. It’s the job of the plaintiffs to bring a case that will convince the courts to agree in their favor.
Yes, I’m aware of this. I was referring to a “judicial finding.” It seems no Court, no matter who brings a complaint, on what grounds, based on what evidence, can gain any “traction” in the Federal Courts. To me, it demonstrates more the attitude of the Courts toward We The People rather than that there is no one with actual standing worthy to bring a case that would “force” Barack Obama to produce evidence that he fulfills the Constitutional requirements to hold the office of the Presidency.
Some of the legal fees were paid by the DNC.
The Attorney General’s office defended other suits. In those suits they state Obama was never legally adopted by the stepfather (why the name change in the Indonesian school?).
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