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Free advance care planning session offered
Grand Junction Free Press ^ | Friday, April 8, 2011 | Sharon Sullivan

Posted on 04/10/2011 5:35:48 AM PDT by BykrBayb

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Millions of people began filling out living wills and advance directives after the 1976 Supreme Court case of Karen Ann Quinlan.

Not true. Most people still do not want to sign away their lives, and even fewer people wanted to in 1976. The idea of "living wills" was new, and not very popular. The default position of the medical community was to provide care. Most people agreed with that, and saw no need to put their wishes in writing. At that time, their desire to be cared for would be honored without question.

Most people shared the belief that The fact that the victim is on the threshold of death or in terminal condition is no defense to a homicide charge. Even if they mistakenly believed Quinlan was dying, they didn't think that justified killing her.

The euthanasia lobby has pushed for "living wills" for decades. People now generally accept that there is a right to sign a living will, but most people still don't sign them. The euthanasia lobby pressures people to sign them, and still we resist.

This seminar looks dubious. I think this has more to do with promoting the choice to die than any objective promotion of the actual desires of the attendees.

I think it would be nice if one or more pro-lifers attended this seminar, to provide a pro-life perspective, and to report what they see there. It would be nice to bring several copies of the Will to Live, to hand out to the people in attendance. And then take video of the hosts' heads exploding.

1 posted on 04/10/2011 5:35:49 AM PDT by BykrBayb
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To: wagglebee; Lesforlife; little jeremiah; DJ MacWoW; metmom

Could somebody ping the list?


2 posted on 04/10/2011 5:37:27 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: BykrBayb

Thanks for the Will to Live info. Be very careful when you select your Durable Power of Attorney for health decisions. When you are elderly and in frail health, the adjunct staff people (and sometimes even some doctors and nurses) in most hospitals will be all over that person to ‘pull the plug’. My advice: a conservative while you want to live, a liberal if you want to die.


3 posted on 04/10/2011 5:43:22 AM PDT by Kanzan
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To: BykrBayb
Not true.

With that decree, what's left to talk about?

4 posted on 04/10/2011 5:46:18 AM PDT by Glenn (iamtheresistance.org)
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To: Glenn

Well, you could always try to prove me wrong. Give it your best shot.


5 posted on 04/10/2011 5:47:22 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: BykrBayb


6 posted on 04/10/2011 5:48:42 AM PDT by Diogenesis ("The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people''s money." M Thatcher)
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To: BykrBayb
Well, you could always try to prove me wrong.

I learned early in life not to waste time arguing with zealots.

7 posted on 04/10/2011 5:50:52 AM PDT by Glenn (iamtheresistance.org)
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To: BykrBayb

Yes, why do I have the feeling the message will be

“Decide now not be a “burden” on your family and society. You wouldn’t want to be a BURDEN on your LOVED ONES, would you?”


8 posted on 04/10/2011 5:55:19 AM PDT by silverleaf (All that is necessary for evil to succeed, is that good men do nothing)
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To: Glenn

You are a zealot. You ravenously promote death. Too bad you can’t come up with any facts to back up your position. Go ahead and try. Instead of spewing your usual “doody-head” rhetoric, give us something, anything, that backs up your position. Show us some substantiation of the claim that millions of people rushed into filling out “living wills” after the removal of Karen Anne Quinlan’s respirator. You’ve taken the position that it’s true. Prove it.


9 posted on 04/10/2011 5:55:31 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: BykrBayb
Too bad you can’t come up with any facts to back up your position.

Stop. You're not very good at this.

I have had heart surgery with an advanced directive in place.

Ah, freedom.

10 posted on 04/10/2011 5:59:45 AM PDT by Glenn (iamtheresistance.org)
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To: Glenn

Oh gee, that makes you an expert, and verifies all your ludicrous claims.

Now try again. Back up your claims.


11 posted on 04/10/2011 6:02:01 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: BykrBayb; Nachum

Trying to get us use to it I see.


12 posted on 04/10/2011 6:18:26 AM PDT by GailA (2012 rally cry DEMOCRATS and RINOS are BAD for the USA!)
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To: Kanzan
All mine have written in big bold under lined letters I DO NOT WANT TO BE STARVED OR DEHYDRATED TO DEATH. My husband and my children know of my wishes.

I can't get how Terri S was starved and dehydrated to death out of my mind.

13 posted on 04/10/2011 6:23:47 AM PDT by GailA (2012 rally cry DEMOCRATS and RINOS are BAD for the USA!)
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To: GailA

Yes. As part of their conditioning they use lies and propaganda. They claim that millions of people rushed out to sign living wills the moment they first heard about them. They come onto conservative pro-life forums like this one to repeat those claims. When asked to back up their claims, they call the questioner names and insist they’re above such things. Those tactics work among their peers over at DU, so they just assume it will work among thinking people too.


14 posted on 04/10/2011 6:25:27 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: GailA
I can't get how Terri S was starved and dehydrated to death out of my mind.

Did you think that the default position in the medical community was still to provide care, unless the patient clearly and specifically requested otherwise? Did you think that a patient whose pro-life views were well known would be exempt from involuntary euthanasia? Did you think that Americans were too civilized to cheer for the brutal public execution of an innocent woman?

15 posted on 04/10/2011 6:46:33 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: BykrBayb

I hate to tell you this, but with a name like BykrBayb, you are going to have a hard time convincing anyone that you are a qualified bioethicist.


16 posted on 04/10/2011 8:05:39 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

What are you talking about?


17 posted on 04/10/2011 8:09:19 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: BykrBayb; 185JHP; 230FMJ; AKA Elena; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; Amos the Prophet; ..
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


18 posted on 04/10/2011 9:57:34 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: Ben Ficklin; BykrBayb
Bioethicist? That's a leftist term. In actuality one either believes that people have the right to live or they don't.

Do you believe that you have the right to decide who is deserving of life?

19 posted on 04/10/2011 10:01:21 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: DJ MacWoW
Thanks for pinging the list.


20 posted on 04/10/2011 10:01:45 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: BykrBayb

You’re welcome!


21 posted on 04/10/2011 10:06:51 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: BykrBayb
"People who make their wishes known in advance can avoid situations like Quinlan's, and that of another woman — Terri Schiavo — who suffered a cardiac arrest, that led to a vegetative state lasting 15 years before her mechanical life support system was removed."

That's a lie about Terri Schiavo's condition and about the "mechanical life support." The woman was awake and aware. She was tortured to death by starvation and dehydration.

Sharon Sullivan, you're a liar and propagandist for the Death Cult.

22 posted on 04/10/2011 10:09:10 AM PDT by TheOldLady
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To: TheOldLady; BykrBayb

They consistently lie about Terri. There are still people who have no idea that she only had a feeding tube.


23 posted on 04/10/2011 10:17:58 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: BykrBayb
Pinged from Terri Dailies


24 posted on 04/10/2011 10:26:40 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: DJ MacWoW
"That's a leftist term"

They are educated and all educated people are leftist.

"Do you believe that you have the right to decide who is deserving of life?"

Do you believe that you have the right to force someone to lay in their own urine atop a plastic sheet, while hooked up to the machine? Do you believe your neolithic God has the right to dictate that?

Welcome to the warehouse, oldtimer.

25 posted on 04/10/2011 10:31:00 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

Answer the question. Do you believe that you have the right to decide who is deserving of life?


26 posted on 04/10/2011 10:37:05 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: DJ MacWoW
That's not the question.

The question is whether I have the right to make my decisions, or should you and BykrBayb make my decisions or decide who I can consult in making my decisions.

27 posted on 04/10/2011 10:45:39 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

That IS the question. And you are dancing. Again, do you believe that you have the right to decide who is deserving of life?


28 posted on 04/10/2011 10:47:04 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: DJ MacWoW
Here's the problem.

Everyday, across the nation and the world, uncountable people are making decisions that you don't like, and you want to change that.

You are not satisfied with making decisions only about yourself.

29 posted on 04/10/2011 10:51:54 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin; BykrBayb
I hate to tell you this, but with a name like BykrBayb Ben Ficklin, you are going to have a hard time convincing anyone that you are a qualified bioethicist aren't a mouth breathing half wit.

Just sayin.

30 posted on 04/10/2011 10:52:14 AM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Ben Ficklin

Nope. And I’ve been on here almost as long as you. Trying rephrase the debate won’t work. The question is do you believe that you have the right to decide who is deserving of life? Why are you having a hard time answering?


31 posted on 04/10/2011 10:57:47 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: DJ MacWoW

Does it bother you that, as the article title points out, some people can get “Free Advance Care Planning”?


32 posted on 04/10/2011 11:03:17 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
Lying bothers me. They wrap euthanasia in pretty paper.

And still you dance. The question is do you believe that you have the right to decide who is deserving of life?

33 posted on 04/10/2011 11:11:46 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: DJ MacWoW
Go ahead and admit it. It doesn't have anything to do with me.

It bothers you that many are making decisions without listening to you. They are being lied to and making decisions without the benefit of your "truth"

34 posted on 04/10/2011 11:17:42 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

Again, do you believe that you have the right to decide who is deserving of life?


35 posted on 04/10/2011 11:25:18 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: DJ MacWoW

Its you, not me, who wants to decide.


36 posted on 04/10/2011 11:28:01 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

Then why not answer the question? The question is do you believe that you have the right to decide who is deserving of life? Why are you having a hard time answering? It’s a “yes” or “no” answer.


37 posted on 04/10/2011 11:38:16 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: Ben Ficklin; BykrBayb; DJ MacWoW; darkwing104
DJ MacWow - "Bioethicist? That's a leftist term. In actuality one either believes that people have the right to live or they don't."

Ben Ficklin - They are educated and all educated people are leftist.

You don't sound particularly educated and you seem to be a leftist. Perhaps you are an educated ignoramus.

38 posted on 04/10/2011 12:05:24 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Grizzled Bear; Ben Ficklin; BykrBayb; darkwing104; Jim Robinson

He certainly isn’t a conservative. Not when he makes those kinds of statements.


39 posted on 04/10/2011 12:07:51 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: DJ MacWoW; Ben Ficklin; BykrBayb; darkwing104; Jim Robinson
His statement sounds a lot like the garbage spewed by both John Kerry and Stephen King about our military.

He seemed to have gone silent. I bet he's frustrated that we don't appreciate his efforts to enlighten us poor foolish peasants.

40 posted on 04/10/2011 12:17:31 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: DJ MacWoW; Grizzled Bear; Ben Ficklin
He certainly isn’t a conservative.

No, he's not. His pet issue is illegal immigration. He's all for it. He rarely weighs in on right to life issues, but when he does, he opposes it.

41 posted on 04/10/2011 12:18:50 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: BykrBayb; DJ MacWoW; Ben Ficklin; Dane
His pet issue is illegal immigration. He's all for it.

Really? Do you think he speaks "Dane-ish?"

;-)

42 posted on 04/10/2011 12:21:43 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Grizzled Bear; Ben Ficklin; BykrBayb; darkwing104; Jim Robinson

He tried to lead me away from my original question to him which he refused to answer. I know better. And he never answered it.


43 posted on 04/10/2011 12:22:03 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: BykrBayb; Grizzled Bear; Ben Ficklin

He also believes anyone that’s educated is a leftist. He doesn’t belong on FR.


44 posted on 04/10/2011 12:22:53 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: DJ MacWoW; BykrBayb; Ben Ficklin
He also believes anyone that’s educated is a leftist. He doesn’t belong on FR.

Anyone who spent a week on FR knows that it is populated with intelligent, well educated people. We aren't leftists because we are capable of thinking for ourselves. We even have a Professor from a University in Ohio. Professor Larry Schweikert is FReeper LS. Check out his FReep page. He occasionally offers free, autographed copies of his books to FReepers.

I'm going to be charitable and assume that Ben Ficklin suffers from long-term, untreated syphilis which has caused permanent brain damage. He should never have started hooking up guys in bus station bathrooms.

He should not be hated, but pitied. His crime is also his punishment; he IS Ben Ficklin.

45 posted on 04/10/2011 12:33:17 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Grizzled Bear; BykrBayb; Ben Ficklin
We do have some extraordinary people on FR.

And you're right. Ben needs our compassion. *ahem*

46 posted on 04/10/2011 12:37:20 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: Grizzled Bear; Ben Ficklin

Oh yeah! He speaks Dane-ish with a passion unmatched. I think they’re married to each other in five states and the District of Columbia.


47 posted on 04/10/2011 12:42:21 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: DJ MacWoW; Grizzled Bear; BykrBayb
I've already answered your question. Everyone should make their own decision. Even you. If you want to be hooked up to all the machines, put that in your living will. If you want Medicaid to pay for it, put that in your will.

What's the conservative position on this? The way I learned it is that a man manages his death just like he manages his life. The last thing you should do is push these decisions off on your family members without some type of document to guide them.

As the lawyers say, the Schiavo affair brought the living will issues to the forefront. Everybody wants one because they don't want to be a pawn in your game. That is why this is a difficult issue for you. Nobody is listening to you

48 posted on 04/10/2011 1:07:13 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
Everybody wants one...

No, we don't. That's what eats away at you. That's why you made it mandatory that all hospitals have push them on their patients. That's why you have these seminars where vulnerable people are pressured into signing them. Because clearly you do not believe in letting us decide for ourselves.

49 posted on 04/10/2011 1:12:58 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: BykrBayb

Nobody forces you to fill out a living will. If you do have a living will, nobody forces you to give a copy to the hospital.


50 posted on 04/10/2011 1:17:05 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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