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True U.S. debt exceeds world GDP by $14 trillion
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | A.D. 11 April 2011 | Editors

Posted on 04/11/2011 5:55:48 AM PDT by Robert Drobot

As the Obama administration prepares to finance a Fiscal Year 2011 budget deficit expected to top $1.6 trillion, the American public is largely unaware that the true negative net worth of the federal government reached $76.3 trillion last year.

That figure was five times the 2010 gross domestic product of the United States and exceeded the estimated gross domestic product for the world by approximately $14.4 trillion.

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Government
KEYWORDS: debt; federaldebt; money; printing
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1 posted on 04/11/2011 5:55:52 AM PDT by Robert Drobot
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To: Robert Drobot

Don’t worry. They are working on a plan that will save millions of dollars!


2 posted on 04/11/2011 6:02:16 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: Robert Drobot

And unfunded liabilities in the not-so-distant future between $130 trillion and $200 trillion!

Our debt is now going on an asymptotic climb and is beyond the point of no return! Enjoy the ride, kiddies! Wheeee!!!!!!!!!


3 posted on 04/11/2011 6:15:50 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: ClearCase_guy

just wait until hyperinflation starts to hit. We’ll be exchanging trillions of dollars in debt for quadrillions.


4 posted on 04/11/2011 6:18:05 AM PDT by utherdoul
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To: utherdoul
We often say that the EU is unsustainable. Part of the problem that, say, Greece or Portugal have is that they are tied to the euro. If they were indepedent, they might have more success in fixing their problems.

Perhaps we are not so different. The federal government holds the states hostage within a bankrupt system. If a state could abandon the US dollar, they might have more success in fixing their problems.

I support secession. Hey, it couldn't hurt.

5 posted on 04/11/2011 6:25:13 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: Robert Drobot

An unfunded liability is different than a debt.


6 posted on 04/11/2011 6:30:08 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

I seriously doubt any of the states would have joined the union if they thought they couldn’t get out at some point in the future if the Feds got too overbearing. I could very easily see the USA being split into separate countries given the financial mess we’re in. The South will rise again!


7 posted on 04/11/2011 6:30:39 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (The theft being perpetrated by Congress and the Fed makes Bernie Maddoff look like a pickpocket.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Japan, after this recent catastrophe, might be unable to buy the politician’s debt. It was never sustainable.


8 posted on 04/11/2011 6:31:33 AM PDT by allmost
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To: allmost
The world is being remade. The Middle East. Europe. Japan. Mexico. The US. Not all of these states will fail, but many will. Lines will be redrawn.

In 20 years time, the world will be unrecognizable.

9 posted on 04/11/2011 6:39:48 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: Toddsterpatriot

True. Most of the people who hold US debt can’t vote in US elections. But those to whom unfunded liabilities are owed can and will vote.


10 posted on 04/11/2011 6:48:18 AM PDT by agere_contra (As often as I look upon the cross, so often will I forgive with all my heart.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Mad Max is no way to live.


11 posted on 04/11/2011 6:48:25 AM PDT by allmost
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That's what you get for shipping all your jobs and manufacturing to Marxist China and India and then trying to buy back all you can on credit cards while sitting on the couch watching football and playing Nintendo. Allowing the Marxists, Darwinians and genocidal abortionists to take over your homes and schools, and allowing the globalist UN/IMF/OECD agenda to now be furthered by false conservative leaders.
12 posted on 04/11/2011 6:50:52 AM PDT by LeaveAmericaNow
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To: agere_contra
Most of the people who hold US debt can’t vote in US elections.

Most US debt is held in America by Americans.

13 posted on 04/11/2011 6:51:56 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

The states that are the most likely to secede are also the poorest states and the ones that receive the most federal assistance.

I don’t think a secession would turn out as well for states as you think...


14 posted on 04/11/2011 6:55:39 AM PDT by Domalais
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To: Domalais

Yes, but when you have to choose between eating and living in a failed nation state, I’ll choose eating. We may not have much manufacturing, but we have agriculture. Making things to sell isn’t so glamorous on an empty stomach.


15 posted on 04/11/2011 7:25:40 AM PDT by panzerkamphwageneinz (HALLELUJAH)
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To: LeaveAmericaNow

“That’s what you get for shipping all your jobs and manufacturing to Marxist China and India and then trying to buy back all you can on credit cards while sitting on the couch watching football and playing Nintendo. Allowing the Marxists, Darwinians and genocidal abortionists to take over your homes and schools, and allowing the globalist UN/IMF/OECD agenda to now be furthered by false conservative leaders.”

Never mind the NWO FED voted in by Demonrats in 1913, AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION. They have held sway for 98 years.

It IS time to end the FASCIST FED.


16 posted on 04/11/2011 8:22:28 AM PDT by TruthConquers (.Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: agere_contra

Japan is hurting and won’t be buying as many USTreasuries.

The Fascist FED will have to monetize the debt even more.

And with Commie Soros out there telling us to have MORE debt, when we are already at unsustainable levels is just evil.


17 posted on 04/11/2011 8:27:24 AM PDT by TruthConquers (.Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: Domalais

Being bankrupt as an entire nation won’t be too great either.

No good choices have been left to us.


18 posted on 04/11/2011 8:28:49 AM PDT by TruthConquers (.Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: Robert Drobot
I've seen numbers like these, but there's a serious flaw in them: Congress doesn't actually have any legal obligation to pay Social Security and Medicare beneficiaries. Congress can reduce entitlement program payouts without harming the USA's credit rating one bit. Hence it is absolutely incorrect to view our entitlement programs as "liabilities" or "obligations." On the other hand, failing to service our actual debt on time would be a real event of default and in fact would hurt the government's credit rating, so it is absolutely correct to count outstanding Treasury securities as liabilities.

This is very different from a corporation. A corporation has a legal obligation to meet its promised pension payouts, which it can only break by declaring bankruptcy. Hence the present value of those payouts is counted as a liability, just like that of any other debt.

19 posted on 04/11/2011 9:19:11 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: Jack Hydrazine
And unfunded liabilities in the not-so-distant future between $130 trillion and $200 trillion!

The good news is that Social Security and Medicare are not actually liabilities. Congress can refuse to make the payouts, or (more likely) modify them as Paul Ryan is proposing, and it will have no negative impact on the nation's credit. If anything, gradually reducing the payouts over time will improve our credit.

20 posted on 04/11/2011 9:22:26 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: utherdoul
just wait until hyperinflation starts to hit.

I seriously doubt there will be any significant inflation (beyond the 2-3% a year the Fed wants). Why? Because politicians stand to gain very little from it. All the entitlement programs driving our debt problem are indexed to inflation. Hence higher-than-expected inflation will only make the short term budget situation worse.

Historically, politicians have only resorted to hyperinflation when nominal debt service was the main driver of their fiscal problems. That is clearly not the situation we are in today.

21 posted on 04/11/2011 9:30:30 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: Robert Drobot

That chart you posted is misleading because all US debt will be calculated and repaid in Yuan after the collapse.


22 posted on 04/11/2011 9:34:26 AM PDT by Sawdring
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To: TruthConquers
Being bankrupt as an entire nation won’t be too great either.

It's not as bad as you think. For the government, unlike for a corporation, reducing promised payouts to retirees is not an event of default. Hence fixing our budge mess isn't all that difficult. All we have to do is slow the growth of Social Security and Medicare benefits, such as in the manner as Paul Ryan proposed.

23 posted on 04/11/2011 9:34:36 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: Toddsterpatriot

“Most US debt is held in America by Americans.”
Ok. 53% is “most”, but foreign held US debt is “almost” close to it with 47%. Compare this to Japan where the domestic held dept is at about 83%.

No matter who is holding our debt, we’re already going belly up.


24 posted on 04/11/2011 9:34:58 AM PDT by buzzer
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To: Toddsterpatriot
An unfunded liability is different than a debt.

Entitlement programs aren't even liabilities!

Conservatives need to stop calling them that. Why? Because if we keep calling them "liabilities," we are implying that we can't cut them without defaulting on some obligation. But that's just not true!

Cutting entitlement programs IS NOT an event of default! Congress has no legal obligation to keep the benefit forumals unchanged!

This cannot be emphasized enough.

25 posted on 04/11/2011 9:39:40 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: agere_contra
Most of the people who hold US debt can’t vote in US elections. But those to whom unfunded liabilities are owed can and will vote.

First of all, future entitlement program payments are not liabilities for the reasons stated elsewhere on this thread.

Second of all, while it's true that entitlement beneficiaries have the right to vote and many of our creditors do not, our creditors have something much more important: capital and the ability to cut off our access to credit.

If our government actually defaulted on Treasury securities, its only actaul liabilities, its ability to borrow would be gone. Politicians value that waaaay too much in order to ever give it up through an actual default.

26 posted on 04/11/2011 9:48:42 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: buzzer
but foreign held US debt is “almost” close to it with 47%.

Where did you see 47%?

No matter who is holding our debt, we’re already going belly up.

No argument here, we need massive spending cuts.

27 posted on 04/11/2011 9:52:16 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: curiosity
Cutting entitlement programs IS NOT an event of default!

I agree.

Congress has no legal obligation to keep the benefit forumals unchanged!

Or to pay any benefits at all.

28 posted on 04/11/2011 9:53:45 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: curiosity

“...reducing promised payouts to retirees is not an event of default. “

People who have had their money stolen for all of their lives won’t see it that way.

Politically, you post that the US can just shove entitlements off and not suffer for it is a VERY sad joke. The masses depending on that won’t tolerate it. And the productive class can’t pay for it anymore.

It might even be technically correct, but realistically, it is the most uninformed comment that ignores humans and their natures. The whirlwind that would be unleashed will tear this nation apart. And who will the elites blame? Who will be their scapegoat? Who ever it will be, they won’t have caused this.

Politicians LYING has caused this, along with the FASCIST FED.

Pretending away an UNsustainable debt has brought us here, and you advocate more of the same. That is NO solution at all.


29 posted on 04/11/2011 9:58:30 AM PDT by TruthConquers (.Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: curiosity

“... the ability to cut off our access to credit.”

GOOD. It is that access to credit that has allowed congress to over spend all these years.

“... its ability to borrow would be gone. Politicians value that waaaay too much in order to ever give it up through an actual default.”

So politicians can’t give up the money train of endless credit while they tax the productive class into oblivion? You don’t say. Too bad that is what Bennie and His Inkjets are busy doing just that. They ARE going to default, the NWO order demands that this nation be brought down, and to do it easily is by economic destruction.


30 posted on 04/11/2011 10:03:59 AM PDT by TruthConquers (.Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: TruthConquers
Politically, you post that the US can just shove entitlements off and not suffer for it is a VERY sad joke. The masses depending on that won’t tolerate it. And the productive class can’t pay for it anymore.

I'm not saying our government would simply shove entitlements off. It doesn't have to in order to stay solvent. All it has to do is tweak them a little. For example, raising the retirement age to 70 plus limiting Medicare and Social Security benefit growth to the rate of inflation would do the trick.

It might even be technically correct, but realistically, it is the most uninformed comment that ignores humans and their natures. The whirlwind that would be unleashed will tear this nation apart.

I assure you that the whirlwind that would come from defaulting on our actual liabilities, namely, Treasury securities, would be orders of magnitude worse. Reducing entitlement benefits would not cause a global financial meltdown. Defaulting on Treasury securities would.

And who will the elites blame? Who will be their scapegoat? Who ever it will be, they won’t have caused this.

Unfortunately, the people to blame for this are mostly dead: LBJ, FDR and the politicians who passed Medicarea and Social Security, two disasterous programs that should never have been created in the first place.

31 posted on 04/11/2011 10:22:35 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity
Being bankrupt as an entire nation won’t be too great either.
It's not as bad as you think. For the government, unlike for a corporation, reducing promised payouts to retirees is not an event of default. Hence fixing our budge mess isn't all that difficult. All we have to do is slow the growth of Social Security and Medicare benefits, such as in the manner as Paul Ryan proposed.

Suggest you do some research regarding USSR and debt. Russia assumed most? USSR debt and assets, not sure who will assume all our debt AND assets.

Pensions were the major form of welfare in USSR. Pensions were very low and easy to manage. Looked like they were picked up by the individual countries because they were manageable. Housing was provided to people but that was an asset that could be privatized.

Russia's workout was very simple in retrospect. Ours? I don't know.

Just reminds me that God wanted to setup the year of jubilee but the Jewish people were a little reluctant, looks like He may have done it anyway.........

32 posted on 04/11/2011 10:29:03 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple ( getting closer to the truth.................)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
Or to pay any benefits at all.

True, but I think you would agree that completely eliminating benefits wouldn't be wise or politically feasible. Thankfully, it's not necessary to stay solvent. The sooner we start modifying the benefit forumlas, the less abrupt and less painful the necessary cuts will be.

I'm pretty optimistic that a hybrid combining elements of Ryan's plan and the deficit commission's plan will eventually pass. Politicians on both sides are beginning to realize it must, and at the end of the day, it can be sold to the public. Underneath it all, the case is just not that hard to explain: the money to pay the promised benefits is simply not there, no matter how high you raise taxes on the rich.

While the urgency of changing our entitlement state cannot be overstated, I think the difficulty of the task is being overstated.

33 posted on 04/11/2011 10:31:41 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity

But that isn’t going to happen without blood in the streets. The only way for it to happen is for the older generation and the sick and weak to die out with a quickness.

SS and Medicare are unfunded liabilities. SS has already been borrowed against with only 2 paying in and 1 paying out. I think it is close to 1 to 1 now. Either way it now requires borrowing money from other countries to fund them. China isn’t buying our T-bills much anymore and the Fed has jumped in to pick up the slack. From what I have read the Fed is getting close to the point of not being able or willing to purchase anymore debt from us either.

We are now past the point of no return in paying off our debts even if we had double digit GDP growth. All anyone can do now is hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Make sure your tray is in the upright and locked position and you assume the position for impact.


34 posted on 04/11/2011 10:35:48 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Robert Drobot

Can anything be done?


35 posted on 04/11/2011 10:36:04 AM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Muslims are a people of love, peace, and goodwill, and if you say that they aren't, they'll kill you)
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To: curiosity

“... the people to blame for this are mostly dead: LBJ, FDR and the politicians who passed Medicarea and Social Security, two disasterous programs that should never have been created in the first place.”

It goes further back to Woodrow Wilson and the FED of 1913 being passed by a bunch of dewy eyed FASCIST lovers. It goes back that far.

AND now we have DEATHCARE!! One more added weight of debt onto the backs of the few still working people who DON’T work for the government.

It is UNSUSTATINABLE. Your arguments don’t hold water. The credit bubble will burst, and it won’t be pretty.

Defaulting Treasuries will be the fault of the FED and congress. But more the FED because they are the drug dealer giving congress their fix, credit. And that credit is based on the governments ability to TAX US. That ability is falling, because people don’t have jobs. The monster of government is causing the ability to tax to FAIL.

IT WON’T WORK ANYMORE. And credit bubbles die because the compounding interest implodes under the unreality of the impossible. 98 years of compounding interest just won’t hold up.


36 posted on 04/11/2011 10:42:07 AM PDT by TruthConquers (.Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: curiosity
Being bankrupt as an entire nation won’t be too great either.
It's not as bad as you think. For the government, unlike for a corporation, reducing promised payouts to retirees is not an event of default. Hence fixing our budge mess isn't all that difficult. All we have to do is slow the growth of Social Security and Medicare benefits, such as in the manner as Paul Ryan proposed.

Suggest you do some research regarding USSR and debt. Russia assumed most? USSR debt and assets, not sure who will assume all our debt AND assets.

Pensions were the major form of welfare in USSR. Pensions were very low and easy to manage. Looked like they were picked up by the individual countries because they were manageable. Housing was provided to people but that was an asset that could be privatized.

Russia's workout was very simple in retrospect. Ours? I don't know.

Just reminds me that God wanted to setup the year of jubilee but the Jewish people were a little reluctant, looks like He may have done it anyway.........

37 posted on 04/11/2011 10:44:56 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple ( getting closer to the truth.................)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
But that isn’t going to happen without blood in the streets. The only way for it to happen is for the older generation and the sick and weak to die out with a quickness.

If the people who depend on SS and Medicare are all old, weak and sick, how are they capable of producing blood on the streets?

SS and Medicare are unfunded liabilities.

No they are not! They can be modified by Congress at any time without producing an event of dafault.

Either way it now requires borrowing money from other countries to fund them.

But we don't have to fund them! Congress is perfectly free to reduce the payouts.

38 posted on 04/11/2011 10:50:28 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: PeterPrinciple
Suggest you do some research regarding USSR and debt.

I have. Our situation is not comprable. Most of the USSR's liabilities were in the form of dollar-denominated debt borrowed from the West, and they were massive. Our actual liabilities (Treasury securities outstanding) are easily manageable.

Russia's promised retiree obligations were small. Ours are large. Thankfully, we can reduce ours without creating an event of default.

Russia's workout was very simple in retrospect. Ours? I don't know.

The point you seem to be missing is WE DON'T NEED A WORKOUT. All we have to do is reduce social security and medicare benefits, and we don't need the consent of the beneficiaries to do that. It's true, they get to vote, but so do all the people footing the bill, and there are more of us than them.

39 posted on 04/11/2011 10:56:47 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: TruthConquers
It is UNSUSTATINABLE.

Yes, the entitlement state is unsustainable, but it's also changeable. Again, cutting entitlement benefits is not an event of default.

Your arguments don’t hold water.

Can you be more specific? Which arguments, exactly, do you not find convincing?

40 posted on 04/11/2011 10:59:15 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity

The debt is unsustainable.

Try this:

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/ex-pboc-official-wakes-acid-trip-us-treasury-market-giant-ponzi-scheme


41 posted on 04/11/2011 11:01:53 AM PDT by TruthConquers (.Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: curiosity

There are more people EATING AT THE TROUGH than are paying for it. And there are MORE of them than us who pay.


42 posted on 04/11/2011 11:03:54 AM PDT by TruthConquers (.Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: Clintonfatigued
Can anything be done?

YES! There is no rational basis to all this doom and gloom.

The US government has NO LEGAL OBLIGATION to make good on its social security and medicare promises. Reducing these benefits, as suggested by Paul Ryan, DOES NOT CREATE AN EVENT OF DEFAULT.

Putting our country on a path to fiscal solvency is actually not all that hard. While the urgency of doing it cannot be overstated, the difficultly is frequently overstated.

43 posted on 04/11/2011 11:04:18 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: TruthConquers
The debt is unsustainable.

Nonsense. Debt owed to the public, the only debt we actually have to service to avoid default, is only 60% of GDP. History proves that countries can manage that kind of a debt burden without any trouble for extended periods of time.

What is unsustainable is Social Security and Medicare. But these programs be modified by statute, their benefits reduced to make them sustainable.

The doom and gloom you are preaching is neither rational nor productive.

44 posted on 04/11/2011 11:11:54 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: TruthConquers
There are more people EATING AT THE TROUGH than are paying for it.

That is simply not true.

45 posted on 04/11/2011 11:12:53 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: ClearCase_guy

That plan will work!

We will need to borrow 1.7 bazillion quatloos to do it, but it will work!


46 posted on 04/11/2011 11:16:21 AM PDT by djf (Dems and liberals: Let's redefine "marriage". We already redefined "natural born citizen".)
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To: curiosity

It beats being delusional.

Good Day!


47 posted on 04/11/2011 11:16:36 AM PDT by TruthConquers (.Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: TruthConquers
I'm not sure I understand your position.

Are you saying that even if we reform SS and Medicare and reduce their payouts, as Paul Ryan or the deficit commision proposed, we are still headed for default?

Or are you skeptical that these programs for seniors can be refored and cut sufficiently?

48 posted on 04/11/2011 11:21:42 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity

Both.

Too much of this economy is a ponzi scheme.
A Well hidden ponzi scheme.

As MORE people fall into poverty with this down cycle, there will be LESS tolerance for the cuts. And yes, even if the cuts Ryan has proposed occur, we are vulnerable to defaults because of credit derivatives that can still bring down the financial system in the US. Add in the FED monetizing the debt and buying Treasuries to fund the government, it is a house of cards ready to fall.


49 posted on 04/11/2011 11:35:37 AM PDT by TruthConquers (.Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: TruthConquers
And yes, even if the cuts Ryan has proposed occur, we are vulnerable to defaults because of credit derivatives that can still bring down the financial system in the US.

Which credit derivatives? Do you even know what a credit derivative is?

Add in the FED monetizing the debt and buying Treasuries to fund the government, it is a house of cards ready to fall.

Dude. The Fed always increases the money supply during recessions. This is nothing new.

50 posted on 04/11/2011 11:38:54 AM PDT by curiosity
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